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Thread started 10/22/16 8:33am

Militant

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Prince & Michael Jackson : A Roundtable Discussion from The MJCast - ***[PART 2]***


Thanks to everybody that commented and listened and discussed Part 1 - if you didn't do so, check out the thread we made for that one here.



Part 2 is here! As with the first episode, it's Jamon (host of The MJCast), Paul Black, Samar (The Michael Jackson Academia Project), Charles Thomson, and myself and Kim Camilia of The Violet Reality.



The second part covers the following topics:



  • Our personal experiences with Michael Jackson and Prince
  • The deaths of Prince and Michael Jackson
  • Artistic independence (challenging the industry)
  • Cultural impact
  • Michael and Prince as style/fashion icons



Listen on your phone, or online by clicking the image below!


Peace...



Casey Rain (Militant)



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Reply #1 posted 10/23/16 1:28pm

Misslink88

Thanks for another great discussion. I'm particularly happy to see the dedication you all have to making sure that there isn't a media spin (or other misinformation0 put on P's legacy in the years to come.

God is my Sugar Daddy.
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Reply #2 posted 10/24/16 7:52am

airth

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Loved both parts of this discussion, especially your excellent input, Militant. I thought it was a fair, well-rounded look at both of their careers with some great stories. I really appreciate the work that people like you are doing to protect and maintain Prince's legacy.

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Reply #3 posted 10/24/16 4:08pm

jaawwnn

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Good discussion. I of course wanted to jump in and go "YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT THAT" and "YEAH BUT CONSIDER THIS" etc. which is always the sign of a good podcast lol

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Reply #4 posted 10/24/16 9:39pm

Goddess4Real

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Thanks it was very interesting discussion thumbs up! I too thought that This Is It Film was heavily edited when it was being promoted, and then during the AEG trial those who had said that "everything was fine" back in 2009, now admited that MJ was struggling during the rehearsals, and where is that so-called dress rehearsal run through footage? hmmm

[Edited 10/24/16 21:55pm]

[Edited 10/24/16 22:16pm]

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #5 posted 10/25/16 11:51am

darkroman

I've never quite understood why some people can't say the word Prince without immediately saying Michael Jackson and vice versa.

.

I like Prince, I like Michael Jackson and many other artists.

.

I really don't get the obsession of paring them off as a married couple.

.

The music they produced was worlds apart. They were both very individual artists and should be respected as such.

.

neutral

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Reply #6 posted 10/25/16 7:24pm

LBrent

darkroman said:

I've never quite understood why some people can't say the word Prince without immediately saying Michael Jackson and vice versa.

.

I like Prince, I like Michael Jackson and many other artists.

.

I really don't get the obsession of paring them off as a married couple.

.

The music they produced was worlds apart. They were both very individual artists and should be respected as such.

.

neutral

boogie smoker drink whistling

wink cool

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Reply #7 posted 10/26/16 6:55am

Missmusicluver
72

darkroman said:

I've never quite understood why some people can't say the word Prince without immediately saying Michael Jackson and vice versa.

.

I like Prince, I like Michael Jackson and many other artists.

.

I really don't get the obsession of paring them off as a married couple.

.

The music they produced was worlds apart. They were both very individual artists and should be respected as such.

.

neutral

Amen, I hear that!! It's like they are the ONLY TWO artists in the history of music, that can be compared to one another, smh. I know they both reached megastar status druing the 80's but if some people would really take a deeper listen, they too would discover musically they were polar opposites.

[Edited 10/26/16 6:57am]

Love is God, God is love, girls and boys love God above~
The only Love there is, is the Love We Make~
Prince4Ever
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Reply #8 posted 10/26/16 7:54am

airth

avatar

Missmusicluver72 said:

darkroman said:

I've never quite understood why some people can't say the word Prince without immediately saying Michael Jackson and vice versa.

.

I like Prince, I like Michael Jackson and many other artists.

.

I really don't get the obsession of paring them off as a married couple.

.

The music they produced was worlds apart. They were both very individual artists and should be respected as such.

.

neutral

Amen, I hear that!! It's like they are the ONLY TWO artists in the history of music, that can be compared to one another, smh. I know they both reached megastar status druing the 80's but if some people would really take a deeper listen, they too would discover musically they were polar opposites.

[Edited 10/26/16 6:57am]


This podcast doesn't pair them. It celebrates - and occasionally criticizes - their differences and similarities. It most certainly respects them as individual artists.

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Reply #9 posted 10/26/16 1:17pm

Missmusicluver
72

airth said:

Missmusicluver72 said:

Amen, I hear that!! It's like they are the ONLY TWO artists in the history of music, that can be compared to one another, smh. I know they both reached megastar status druing the 80's but if some people would really take a deeper listen, they too would discover musically they were polar opposites.

[Edited 10/26/16 6:57am]


This podcast doesn't pair them. It celebrates - and occasionally criticizes - their differences and similarities. It most certainly respects them as individual artists.

Ok. But this was coming from how some tend to do so in general.

Love is God, God is love, girls and boys love God above~
The only Love there is, is the Love We Make~
Prince4Ever
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Reply #10 posted 10/27/16 11:48pm

Ellie

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Missmusicluver72 said:

airth said:


This podcast doesn't pair them. It celebrates - and occasionally criticizes - their differences and similarities. It most certainly respects them as individual artists.

Ok. But this was coming from how some tend to do so in general.

The first part of the podcast does kind of touch on this, coming down to their main early influences being very similar. But then they kind of veered of later with very different influences from other areas.

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Reply #11 posted 10/30/16 5:12am

Lordy

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Listened to Part 1 - very enjoyable - thoughtful, erudite and intelligent - adjectives I wouldn't have attributed to MJ fans, my mind lazily tarnishing them as childish slaves to the religion of MJ. Just shows how wrong I was!!

.

Looking forward to Part 2...Thank you.

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Reply #12 posted 10/31/16 8:58am

jcurley

Missmusicluver72 said:



darkroman said:


I've never quite understood why some people can't say the word Prince without immediately saying Michael Jackson and vice versa.


.


I like Prince, I like Michael Jackson and many other artists.


.


I really don't get the obsession of paring them off as a married couple.


.


The music they produced was worlds apart. They were both very individual artists and should be respected as such.


.


neutral





Amen, I hear that!! It's like they are the ONLY TWO artists in the history of music, that can be compared to one another, smh. I know they both reached megastar status druing the 80's but if some people would really take a deeper listen, they too would discover musically they were polar opposites.

[Edited 10/26/16 6:57am]



Yep. Itvwinds the hell out if me. I'm only flaming conscious of MJ because people keep doing this. God when doves cry is more than the entirety of MJ career. I genuinely don't get how people who like If I was Girlfriend etc can go and listen to tripe like Bad. It's beyond me.
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Reply #13 posted 10/31/16 9:00am

jcurley

airth said:



Missmusicluver72 said:




darkroman said:


I've never quite understood why some people can't say the word Prince without immediately saying Michael Jackson and vice versa.


.


I like Prince, I like Michael Jackson and many other artists.


.


I really don't get the obsession of paring them off as a married couple.


.


The music they produced was worlds apart. They were both very individual artists and should be respected as such.


.


neutral





Amen, I hear that!! It's like they are the ONLY TWO artists in the history of music, that can be compared to one another, smh. I know they both reached megastar status druing the 80's but if some people would really take a deeper listen, they too would discover musically they were polar opposites.


[Edited 10/26/16 6:57am]




This podcast doesn't pair them. It celebrates - and occasionally criticizes - their differences and similarities. It most certainly respects them as individual artists.



They have no similarities
mj wanted fame. He was also frigging lazy n seemed indifferent ti music. He was a narcissist n actually not a very string talent. He was simply precocious
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Reply #14 posted 10/31/16 11:43am

4You92

jcurley said:

airth said:



Missmusicluver72 said:




darkroman said:


I've never quite understood why some people can't say the word Prince without immediately saying Michael Jackson and vice versa.


.


I like Prince, I like Michael Jackson and many other artists.


.


I really don't get the obsession of paring them off as a married couple.


.


The music they produced was worlds apart. They were both very individual artists and should be respected as such.


.


neutral





Amen, I hear that!! It's like they are the ONLY TWO artists in the history of music, that can be compared to one another, smh. I know they both reached megastar status druing the 80's but if some people would really take a deeper listen, they too would discover musically they were polar opposites.


[Edited 10/26/16 6:57am]




This podcast doesn't pair them. It celebrates - and occasionally criticizes - their differences and similarities. It most certainly respects them as individual artists.



They have no similarities
mj wanted fame. He was also frigging lazy n seemed indifferent ti music. He was a narcissist n actually not a very string talent. He was simply precocious



It's comments like this that make people not take Prince fans that seriously.
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Reply #15 posted 10/31/16 12:10pm

TrivialPursuit

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A couple of notes as I listen.

I do think, if I read correctly, that Prince attended at least one of his parent's funeral, maybe perhaps not the other. I feel like it was John's that he didn't attend.

I don't buy into the idea that he was terminally ill (from what?) or that he knew he was going to die. There's no evidence of it. The introspection on AOA is something that Prince has touched on and glazed over before.

All that aside, it's nice to hear such big fans of P and MJ talk about them, and purposely not delve into who is better. But rather compare their lives, share their memories, and truthfully yet compassionately examine performances, etc.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #16 posted 10/31/16 12:23pm

HerecomethePur
pleYoda

Missed this one...

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Reply #17 posted 10/31/16 1:19pm

Missmusicluver
72

4You92 said:

jcurley said:
They have no similarities mj wanted fame. He was also frigging lazy n seemed indifferent ti music. He was a narcissist n actually not a very string talent. He was simply precocious
It's comments like this that make people not take Prince fans that seriously.

It goes both ways. I have heard some crazy comments coming from MJ fans when Prince's name is discussed too. I think most people on both sides are just tired of them being compared all the time.

Love is God, God is love, girls and boys love God above~
The only Love there is, is the Love We Make~
Prince4Ever
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Reply #18 posted 10/31/16 1:29pm

4You92

Missmusicluver72 said:



4You92 said:


jcurley said:
They have no similarities mj wanted fame. He was also frigging lazy n seemed indifferent ti music. He was a narcissist n actually not a very string talent. He was simply precocious

It's comments like this that make people not take Prince fans that seriously.


It goes both ways. I have heard some crazy comments coming from MJ fans when Prince's name is discussed too. I think most people on both sides are just tired of them being compared all the time.



I'm an equal fan of both, and I can guarantee I've heard way more snide remarks from Prince stans. Not MJ fans can appreciate Prince. I can't say the same for Prince stans, though there are a few.

I can't tell you how many times I've watched Prince stans on YT and other places do the absolute most to make Mike seem like the average pop star,down to acting like the man didn't write most of his music. They refuse to appreciate Michael as the artist that he was. I don't care if someone prefers one over the other, but to sit and belittle another's achievements or deny the clear talent and ability of another artist is ridiculous and too many Prince fans engage in that behavior, especially with Michael.
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Reply #19 posted 10/31/16 2:59pm

Missmusicluver
72

4You92 said:

Missmusicluver72 said:

It goes both ways. I have heard some crazy comments coming from MJ fans when Prince's name is discussed too. I think most people on both sides are just tired of them being compared all the time.

I'm an equal fan of both, and I can guarantee I've heard way more snide remarks from Prince stans. Not MJ fans can appreciate Prince. I can't say the same for Prince stans, though there are a few. I can't tell you how many times I've watched Prince stans on YT and other places do the absolute most to make Mike seem like the average pop star,down to acting like the man didn't write most of his music. They refuse to appreciate Michael as the artist that he was. I don't care if someone prefers one over the other, but to sit and belittle another's achievements or deny the clear talent and ability of another artist is ridiculous and too many Prince fans engage in that behavior, especially with Michael.

I agree with you as I too am a fan of both, but I have heard some MJ stans, (who don't like Prince) do this also and are so quick to always point out "MJ was better, because he sold more records, is the King of Pop, and was more popular"), like that is the only reason like him when it isn't about record sales or popularity, it should just be about the music and how it moves you. Their music and artistry was as different as night and day IMO. However, as everyone has their faves, I just never get into the "fan wars" of any artist and I don't have to tear one down, just to enjoy the other.

Love is God, God is love, girls and boys love God above~
The only Love there is, is the Love We Make~
Prince4Ever
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Reply #20 posted 10/31/16 6:24pm

4You92

Missmusicluver72 said:



4You92 said:


Missmusicluver72 said:



It goes both ways. I have heard some crazy comments coming from MJ fans when Prince's name is discussed too. I think most people on both sides are just tired of them being compared all the time.



I'm an equal fan of both, and I can guarantee I've heard way more snide remarks from Prince stans. Not MJ fans can appreciate Prince. I can't say the same for Prince stans, though there are a few. I can't tell you how many times I've watched Prince stans on YT and other places do the absolute most to make Mike seem like the average pop star,down to acting like the man didn't write most of his music. They refuse to appreciate Michael as the artist that he was. I don't care if someone prefers one over the other, but to sit and belittle another's achievements or deny the clear talent and ability of another artist is ridiculous and too many Prince fans engage in that behavior, especially with Michael.


I agree with you as I too am a fan of both, but I have heard some MJ stans, (who don't like Prince) do this also and are so quick to always point out "MJ was better, because he sold more records, is the King of Pop, and was more popular"), like that is the only reason like him when it isn't about record sales or popularity, it should just be about the music and how it moves you. Their music and artistry was as different as night and day IMO. However, as everyone has their faves, I just never get into the "fan wars" of any artist and I don't have to tear one down, just to enjoy the other.




Yes,I have seen the off few. Let's be honest. Which side has the problem more? You and I both know this mentality is way more on the Prince only stans. With many, there seems to be a need to delegitimize Michael's genius and artistry. The post I quoted in this very thread is a great example of the extremes many Prince stans take when it comes to Michael Jackson. It's almost like they don't want him to be great, even though he was. They would rather act like what he did was merely a blip in time and unimportant. I heard all kinds of crazy things.

I understand that you dont hold the opinions of those Prince fans, and yes people have their favorites. That's fine. But it's beyond just having a favorite. To sit and lie on another artists achievements to bolster your fave is as ridiculous as it comes. And you mention Mike stans mentioning his stats. For everyone one of them their are 50-11 Prince stans saying that because he played 30 instruments he was worlds ahead MJ or because he did everything on his own, he was a true artist and Mike wasn't. Those arguments are absolutely ludicrous.

Mike fans are not running from Prince vid to Prince vid on YT trying to tear him down. But I can't tell you how many Prince fans as of late have done it on Mike vids or comparison vids. It's a problem that many in this fan community have.
[Edited 10/31/16 18:26pm]
[Edited 10/31/16 18:35pm]
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Reply #21 posted 11/01/16 4:40am

jcurley

4You92 said:

jcurley said:



They have no similarities
mj wanted fame. He was also frigging lazy n seemed indifferent ti music. He was a narcissist n actually not a very string talent. He was simply precocious



It's comments like this that make people not take Prince fans that seriously.


He's simply a pop star of believable talents. He was massively unprolific and was commercially obsessed. I wish to god MJ fans would just go to an MJ site. Seriously Prince n mj don't even occupy the same universe and anybody who thinks about their music would agree

Most musicians take prince fans seriously.
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Reply #22 posted 11/01/16 4:48am

jcurley

4You92 said:

Missmusicluver72 said:



4You92 said:


jcurley said:
They have no similarities mj wanted fame. He was also frigging lazy n seemed indifferent ti music. He was a narcissist n actually not a very string talent. He was simply precocious

It's comments like this that make people not take Prince fans that seriously.


It goes both ways. I have heard some crazy comments coming from MJ fans when Prince's name is discussed too. I think most people on both sides are just tired of them being compared all the time.



I'm an equal fan of both, and I can guarantee I've heard way more snide remarks from Prince stans. Not MJ fans can appreciate Prince. I can't say the same for Prince stans, though there are a few.

I can't tell you how many times I've watched Prince stans on YT and other places do the absolute most to make Mike seem like the average pop star,down to acting like the man didn't write most of his music. They refuse to appreciate Michael as the artist that he was. I don't care if someone prefers one over the other, but to sit and belittle another's achievements or deny the clear talent and ability of another artist is ridiculous and too many Prince fans engage in that behavior, especially with Michael.


Mj didn't write his own music n even if he did it's throwaway. I'm 44 , I've never even considered buying one of his records. There's just not enough to it.
I know I get ratty on hear n I go over board but just can't get how someone could listen to Bad n then if I was your girlfriend or even the Parade outtakes.

Good for people who can be so broad in their taste but I'm too much of a music snob. N when it comes to these two the evidence speaks for itself
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Reply #23 posted 11/01/16 7:18am

CAL3

jcurley said:


Mj didn't write his own music

.

So... WHO do you believe wrote all the songs that he is credited for?

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Reply #24 posted 11/01/16 9:16am

Noodled24

I listened to the first podcast and I'm glad I did. It made listen to the second one... and then the deflated pepsi logo one... which made me go hunting on youtube.

EDIT: The MJ stick is locked in the non-prince forum. Does anyone know the current status/availability of the "Last Photo Shoots" documentary?

[Edited 11/1/16 9:27am]

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Reply #25 posted 11/01/16 9:20am

TrivialPursuit

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jcurley said:


Mj didn't write his own music....when it comes to these two the evidence speaks for itself


Bullshit.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #26 posted 11/01/16 1:05pm

4You92

jcurley said:

4You92 said:



I'm an equal fan of both, and I can guarantee I've heard way more snide remarks from Prince stans. Not MJ fans can appreciate Prince. I can't say the same for Prince stans, though there are a few.

I can't tell you how many times I've watched Prince stans on YT and other places do the absolute most to make Mike seem like the average pop star,down to acting like the man didn't write most of his music. They refuse to appreciate Michael as the artist that he was. I don't care if someone prefers one over the other, but to sit and belittle another's achievements or deny the clear talent and ability of another artist is ridiculous and too many Prince fans engage in that behavior, especially with Michael.


Mj didn't write his own music n even if he did it's throwaway. I'm 44 , I've never even considered buying one of his records. There's just not enough to it.
I know I get ratty on hear n I go over board but just can't get how someone could listen to Bad n then if I was your girlfriend or even the Parade outtakes.

Good for people who can be so broad in their taste but I'm too much of a music snob. N when it comes to these two the evidence speaks for itself



Clearly you are delusional.
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Reply #27 posted 11/02/16 4:44am

RicoN

avatar

jcurley said:

4You92 said:
It's comments like this that make people not take Prince fans that seriously.
He's simply a pop star of believable talents. He was massively unprolific and was commercially obsessed. I wish to god MJ fans would just go to an MJ site. Seriously Prince n mj don't even occupy the same universe and anybody who thinks about their music would agree Most musicians take prince fans seriously.

MJ was just a jobbing singer for Quincy Jones.

He has no place on a Prince site, it sullys and stains Prince.org to see his name on a sticky.

Hamburger, Hot Dog, Root Beer, Pussy
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Reply #28 posted 11/02/16 6:28pm

bboy87

avatar

Prince was one of the greatest the world will ever see. The most well rounded and a once in a lifetime artist, but it doesn't mean we have to diminish others, their talents,and their contributions to music.

Calling Michael "just a singer" or a "jobbing singer for Quincy Jones" (when Quincy willbe one of the first people to talk about how involved he was in the creative process, whether it was as a songwriter, producer, arranger or composer) doesn't do the man justice or his 40+ years as a performer

Michael wrote/co-wrote and coproduced many of his own songs. Quincy Jonesdidn't sit Michael Jackson down and say "Here Michael, this is the song, sing it!' lol

Yes, other songwriters submitted material, but Don't Stop Til You Get Enough, Working Day and Night, Billie Jean, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin',Beat It, I Just Can't Stop Loving You, Dirty Diana, Bad, The Way You Make Me Feel, Smooth Criminal and others were written by Michael. He wrote and/or produced for USA For Africa, Jennifer Holliday, Diana Ross, his sisters, Johnny Mathis ,Blackstreet, The Brothers Johnson, Carole Bayer Sager, J-Friends, and Ralph Tresvant.

Not every artist does EVERYTHING like Prince lol but we can't just dismiss someone or their talents for that very reason.

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #29 posted 11/02/16 8:55pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

bboy87 said:

Prince was one of the greatest the world will ever see. The most well rounded and a once in a lifetime artist, but it doesn't mean we have to diminish others, their talents,and their contributions to music.

Calling Michael "just a singer" or a "jobbing singer for Quincy Jones" (when Quincy willbe one of the first people to talk about how involved he was in the creative process, whether it was as a songwriter, producer, arranger or composer) doesn't do the man justice or his 40+ years as a performer

Michael wrote/co-wrote and coproduced many of his own songs. Quincy Jonesdidn't sit Michael Jackson down and say "Here Michael, this is the song, sing it!' lol

Not every artist does EVERYTHING like Prince lol but we can't just dismiss someone or their talents for that very reason.


I agree. It's so juvenile to pit one great artist against another. You can not like someone, but to dismiss a lifetime of music is uneducated, at best. Imagine if someone dismissed Prince as just another R&B clone? People here would lose their shit.

I remember when MJ was working on BAD, and the point was made that he wanted to write or co-write all the songs on the record. From memory, the only non-MJ songs were "Man In The Mirror", which Siedah Garrett wrote with Glen Ballard, and "Just Good Friends". BAD was very insulated that way, whereas Dangerous was even more collaborative than Thriller or Off The Wall. MJ was who he was in the music world because of his talent - not because Q was tossing him songs like feeding a bird seeds.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Prince & Michael Jackson : A Roundtable Discussion from The MJCast - ***[PART 2]***