Menes said:

laytonian said:

.

"The Star Tribune, citing a source with knowledge of the investigation, previously reported that Prince had been receiving treatment for withdrawal symptoms from a doctor who previously worked with Prince's longtime friend Kirk Johnson."

That would be the first visit, April 7th (the day they had to cancel the Atlanta concert). From that, it sounds like he was trying to kick the drugs himself but was having issues.

THEN, a week later, while under whatever treatment, he ODs in the plane.
Less than a week later, the same day he saw Dr S for the second time, he ODs (fatally).

This is actually the best article and questions. Good sourcing.

http://www.startribune.com/prince-saw-longtime-experienced-family-care-physician/378980721/ (tar-Tribune, May 11, 2016)

[Edited 7/23/16 15:40pm]

In addition, ( since we are sourcing) that same paper (the Star Tribune) stated that " a source with knowledge of the investigation told the Tribune that the doctor had been treating (P) for opioid addiction several weeks before his death. The source also stated that the doctor did not prescribe opioids to the megastar. The article goes on to say that detective Christina Wagner interviewed (Johnson) and that Johnson stated that (P) had been treated for an undisclosed illness in 2014-1015". The article was written by Dan Browning and Jerry Olson.

So IF that source is true, he could have been trying to withdraw from high doses of painkillers for months and kept going back to them - and on return to the previous dose he OD'd on the plane and then repeats the cycle less than a week later. Although people function fairly well (but not on top form) on high doses of painkillers if the dose is a steady one, someone yo-yoing between withdrawal and OD would be in a bad way.

.

There also seems to be a question as to who was getting him/prescribing these drugs if the Dr didn't prescribe them.

.

JH's description of what would be a narcan revival sounds very "glossy" too. Here is a more typical reaction:

.

"I OD'd on Heroin and all I know is that I woke up in the hospital with a doctor standing over me after he hit me with narcan. Fuck was I sick from that shit, instant withdrals for like the next two or three hours, I actually just wanted to go do some more because of the narcan."

.

"I'm sure other people here can attest to the Narcan. That shit was unreal. The moment it went into my veins I sat straight up and sucked in the biggest breath of air I had ever taken. After a few seconds I was completely awake, and in the most pain I had ever felt in my life. I had a resounding whooping pain in my head. And the nausea. Oh god. I sat up hunched over for a while."

.

So, was it really a narcan revival or was she lying about how it went down?

.

From the info we have I still can't get it all to fit together.

Menes said:

laytonian said:

.

"The Star Tribune, citing a source with knowledge of the investigation, previously reported that Prince had been receiving treatment for withdrawal symptoms from a doctor who previously worked with Prince's longtime friend Kirk Johnson."

That would be the first visit, April 7th (the day they had to cancel the Atlanta concert). From that, it sounds like he was trying to kick the drugs himself but was having issues.

THEN, a week later, while under whatever treatment, he ODs in the plane.
Less than a week later, the same day he saw Dr S for the second time, he ODs (fatally).

This is actually the best article and questions. Good sourcing.

http://www.startribune.com/prince-saw-longtime-experienced-family-care-physician/378980721/ (tar-Tribune, May 11, 2016)

[Edited 7/23/16 15:40pm]

In addition, ( since we are sourcing) that same paper (the Star Tribune) stated that " a source with knowledge of the investigation told the Tribune that the doctor had been treating (P) for opioid addiction several weeks before his death. The source also stated that the doctor did not prescribe opioids to the megastar. The article goes on to say that detective Christina Wagner interviewed (Johnson) and that Johnson stated that (P) had been treated for an undisclosed illness in 2014-1015". The article was written by Dan Browning and Jerry Olson.

You won't believe what I am saying about a smear campaign but you are willing to believe an unverified source?

I have no problem that he was hooked on pain meds and that he was trying to quit, relapsed, and died.I also know people who were ill that said I want to go "home" clear minded.

I do have a problem with this whole "addict for 20 year" theme that is perminating through the thread or he committed suicide. There are also things here pointing to illness that would not be disclosed on this report that was made public.

muleFunk said:

I do have a problem with this whole "addict for 20 year" theme that is perminating through the thread or he committed suicide. There are also things here pointing to illness that would not be disclosed on this report that was made public.

.

Let me help you.

The 'hip operation' supposedly took place in 2009.

He must have had complaints, pains etc since a relatively long while before that.

So you can easily see a potential 15 year (on-off?) relationship with painkillers. Perhaps longer.

Some of these painkillers might be legit, i.e. prescribed and used as such.

.

The Star Tribune story is no pulp news story.

So there is at least a steady core of truth in there.

This means that mr Prince was using drugs without prescription OR was using drugs while not following the prescription or perhaps not following the instructions from the doctor(s).

So it was mr Prince that caused problems, at elast twice, that were ultimately fatal.

.

Can I please see statistics for `short` females having hip replacement operations before they are 60?

Statistics for the USA and for the rest of the world please.

Can we see a correlation with heel height? With body length? With territory?

As his hip problem is assumed to be the sole reason for his painkiller problem I might need to be convinced about the correlation between high heels and hip problems, ultimately resulting in operations.

sunset3121 said:

Menes said:

In addition, ( since we are sourcing) that same paper (the Star Tribune) stated that " a source with knowledge of the investigation told the Tribune that the doctor had been treating (P) for opioid addiction several weeks before his death. The source also stated that the doctor did not prescribe opioids to the megastar. The article goes on to say that detective Christina Wagner interviewed (Johnson) and that Johnson stated that (P) had been treated for an undisclosed illness in 2014-1015". The article was written by Dan Browning and Jerry Olson.

From the info we have I still can't get it all to fit together.

And while I am on this theme of it not fitting together, another thing that niggles is the reaction of his friends. So many of them are so keen to point to his hip pain and say that they knew what killed him. If a friend of mine suddenly died from painkiller abuse and I knew of their troubles I would feel a lot of irrational guilt over what more I might have done to help (even though I know that any attempt to help would probably be futile). There seemed to be very little being done to help P and yet I am hearing no guilt at all from the accounts of his friends - I am hearing acceptance of the inevitable/story time.

udo said:

muleFunk said:

I do have a problem with this whole "addict for 20 year" theme that is perminating through the thread or he committed suicide. There are also things here pointing to illness that would not be disclosed on this report that was made public.

.

Let me help you.

The 'hip operation' supposedly took place in 2009.

He must have had complaints, pains etc since a relatively long while before that.

So you can easily see a potential 15 year (on-off?) relationship with painkillers. Perhaps longer.

Some of these painkillers might be legit, i.e. prescribed and used as such.

.

The Star Tribune story is no pulp news story.

So there is at least a steady core of truth in there.

This means that mr Prince was using drugs without prescription OR was using drugs while not following the prescription or perhaps not following the instructions from the doctor(s).

So it was mr Prince that caused problems, at elast twice, that were ultimately fatal.

.

Can I please see statistics for `short` females having hip replacement operations before they are 60?

Statistics for the USA and for the rest of the world please.

Can we see a correlation with heel height? With body length? With territory?

As his hip problem is assumed to be the sole reason for his painkiller problem I might need to be convinced about the correlation between high heels and hip problems, ultimately resulting in operations.

Let me help you.....

He didn't have the surgery.

I know he was on pain killers .

The "problem" was a recent one not a lasting one.

If I was doing research on a topic and one source stated something as fact and you cannot verify via another two sources it needs to be stated as theory and not fact.

News media is stating things as fact and it is not fact like the hip surgery.

How many other things about this case has been stated as fact or from sources that have been found out to be false.

The biggest one is Prince left the hospital when he stayed there for several hours afterwards.

sunset3121 said:

sunset3121 said:

From the info we have I still can't get it all to fit together.

And while I am on this theme of it not fitting together, another thing that niggles is the reaction of his friends. So many of them are so keen to point to his hip pain and say that they knew what killed him. If a friend of mine suddenly died from painkiller abuse and I knew of their troubles I would feel a lot of irrational guilt over what more I might have done to help (even though I know that any attempt to help would probably be futile). There seemed to be very little being done to help P and yet I am hearing no guilt at all from the accounts of his friends - I am hearing acceptance of the inevitable/story time.

I keep repeating this, but if the autopsy report were to be released, a number of questions would be answered. No one can tell me that people around Prince didn't know he had a problem with drugs, and if I read one more person say it was for hip pain, I am going to scream! Were they blind? The man was a shadow of his former self from 2014/early 2015. Supposedly, he had only a handful of staff still at PP, and one report said no security. Also, when was the last time anyone saw Prince play a guitar? When did the showing up on stage to give an award with a guitar strapped to his back start, but he didn't play? The criminal investigation must be driving what we are - or are not - hearing. Many people here might get angry with me, but there are more questions than answers surrounding his last days.

muleFunk said:

Let me help you.....

He didn't have the surgery.

.

How then do you explain the scars that are in the autopsy report(s)?

.

I know he was on pain killers .

.

Why then if he had no surgery because he had no hip problem?

Are you accusing him of being a recreational user?

.

The "problem" was a recent one not a lasting one.

If I was doing research on a topic and one source stated something as fact and you cannot verify via another two sources it needs to be stated as theory and not fact.

News media is stating things as fact and it is not fact like the hip surgery.

.

Hmm. So we wait for the other channels to give us similar info as in the referenced Star Tribune article.

Same as waiting for the supposed remaster(s).

Same as waiting for the estate to get their stuff together. (luckily devloped nations do have some sort of administration to establish whether one is a relative or not)

they have not yet established a complete and final list of relatives.

There is no complete and final list of items to determine a final value of the estate.

There is no way determined yet to pay the absurd taxes.

There is no info yet on a rescue attempt of the tax situation by e.g. a big record company.

1Sasha said:

Also, when was the last time anyone saw Prince play a guitar?

See here for a possible date.

udo said:

muleFunk said:

Let me help you.....

He didn't have the surgery.

.

How then do you explain the scars that are in the autopsy report(s)?

.

.

Why then if he had no surgery because he had no hip problem?

Are you accusing him of being a recreational user?

.

The "problem" was a recent one not a lasting one.

If I was doing research on a topic and one source stated something as fact and you cannot verify via another two sources it needs to be stated as theory and not fact.

News media is stating things as fact and it is not fact like the hip surgery.

.

Hmm. So we wait for the other channels to give us similar info as in the referenced Star Tribune article.

Same as waiting for the supposed remaster(s).

Same as waiting for the estate to get their stuff together. (luckily devloped nations do have some sort of administration to establish whether one is a relative or not)

they have not yet established a complete and final list of relatives.

There is no complete and final list of items to determine a final value of the estate.

There is no way determined yet to pay the absurd taxes.

There is no info yet on a rescue attempt of the tax situation by e.g. a big record company.

Billy Sparks said that it was not hip replacement surgery.

The Org ran rampant of rumoured hip replacement surgery as far back as 2005/06 and again in 2010-14.

I think he had a bone marrow condition. Lots of signs.

muleFunk said:

Billy Sparks said that it was not hip replacement surgery.

.

But it was hip-related?

.

The Org ran rampant of rumoured hip replacement surgery as far back as 2005/06 and again in 2010-14.

I think he had a bone marrow condition. Lots of signs.

.

A small list of photos and/or observations can make that case.

I have not seen the pictures but some have said the scars were on him on Dirty Mind era pics.

I also know he had a motorcycle accident in the early 1990s where he sustained minor injuries.

Were they to the hip area?

Until I see OFFICIAL documentation or word from next of kin (Tyka) that Prince was a junkie and used for years....you will never convince me otherwise. I believe whatever his problem was it was for a short time. One can't abuse a drug like Fentanyl for a long period of time and not have it show or for that matter any painkiller. Based on personal experience as well, I believe he did become physically dependent on painkillers and was trying to self treat prior to receiving professional help. See Dr' Drew's comments on this...and eventually we give our selves away. How can anyone really think that he could perform the way he did and be a long term user? At any rate, what business is it of ours to probe into the health of someone else unless that individual wanted it to be known? Or the circumstances of their death? Nor do I believe it was a suicide...he weathered many storms through out his career and had plans for the future...to me that does not sound like someone wanting to end it. Perhaps it was a combination of drugs, the timing of the dosage, or whomever gave it to him said this will fix ya right up? Why do we want to believe the worst about him? Why would he change his disciplined lifestyle now? Sorta reminds me of guilty until proven innocent. What if we never know...then what? The whole negative spinand speculation that many appear to be willing to accept as possible truth truly saddens me.

Read somewhere and maybe it was here on the org, that he was treated for sepsis from a B12 shot a year or two ago.

I agree 100%.

AA1slot said:

Until I see OFFICIAL documentation or word from next of kin (Tyka) that Prince was a junkie and used for years....you will never convince me otherwise. I believe whatever his problem was it was for a short time. One can't abuse a drug like Fentanyl for a long period of time and not have it show or for that matter any painkiller. Based on personal experience as well, I believe he did become physically dependent on painkillers and was trying to self treat prior to receiving professional help. See Dr' Drew's comments on this...and eventually we give our selves away. How can anyone really think that he could perform the way he did and be a long term user? At any rate, what business is it of ours to probe into the health of someone else unless that individual wanted it to be known? Or the circumstances of their death? Nor do I believe it was a suicide...he weathered many storms through out his career and had plans for the future...to me that does not sound like someone wanting to end it. Perhaps it was a combination of drugs, the timing of the dosage, or whomever gave it to him said this will fix ya right up? Why do we want to believe the worst about him? Why would he change his disciplined lifestyle now? Sorta reminds me of guilty until proven innocent. What if we never know...then what? The whole negative spinand speculation that many appear to be willing to accept as possible truth truly saddens me.

Thank you for saying this, agree with every word.

I keep repeating this, but if the autopsy report were to be released, a number of questions would be answered. 1--No one can tell me that people around Prince didn't know he had a problem with drugs, and if I read one more person say it was for hip pain, I am going to scream! Were they blind? The man was a shadow of his former self from 2014/early 2015. Supposedly, he had only a handful of staff still at PP, and one report said no security. 2--Also, when was the last time anyone saw Prince play a guitar? When did the showing up on stage to give an award with a guitar strapped to his back start, but he didn't play? The criminal investigation must be driving what we are - or are not - hearing. Many people here might get angry with me, but there are more questions than answers surrounding his last days.

.

ANSWERS:

1--Kirk Johnson obviously knew P had a problem with drugs.

2--When was P last known to play the guitar in public?

March 12, 2016 -- less than six weeks before his death. He showed up at Chanhassen Dinner theater. Here's the story, and there are photos AND A VIDEO:

http://www.startribune.co...371944961/

.

[Edited 7/24/16 11:48am]

.

udo said:

1Sasha said:

Also, when was the last time anyone saw Prince play a guitar?

See here for a possible date.

.

....and there was a later date: March 12, 2016. (see my previous post)

.

farnorth said:

AA1slot said:

At any rate, what business is it of ours to probe into the health of someone else unless that individual wanted it to be known? Or the circumstances of their death? ... The whole negative spin and speculation that many appear to be willing to accept as possible truth truly saddens me.

Thank you for saying this, agree with every word.

I find the ease with which people are certain they know his story and it is that he was drug addicted for 20 odd years difficult.

.

His bodyguard was also shocked by the drug reports:

"I packed this man's bag on the daily. I have been on tour with him for months. So if anybody had an addiction that would be something you would see. That would be something that you would know," he said.
.

And old friends and family said he was never using:

"Sheila E. told Access Hollywood correspondent Scott Evans that she never saw signs of drug use in the late singer.

AA1slot said:

AA1slot said:

udo said:

muleFunk said:

I do have a problem with this whole "addict for 20 year" theme that is perminating through the thread or he committed suicide. There are also things here pointing to illness that would not be disclosed on this report that was made public.

.

Let me help you.

The 'hip operation' supposedly took place in 2009.

He must have had complaints, pains etc since a relatively long while before that.

So you can easily see a potential 15 year (on-off?) relationship with painkillers. Perhaps longer.

Some of these painkillers might be legit, i.e. prescribed and used as such.

.

The Star Tribune story is no pulp news story.

So there is at least a steady core of truth in there.

This means that mr Prince was using drugs without prescription OR was using drugs while not following the prescription or perhaps not following the instructions from the doctor(s).

So it was mr Prince that caused problems, at elast twice, that were ultimately fatal.

.

Can I please see statistics for `short` females having hip replacement operations before they are 60?

Statistics for the USA and for the rest of the world please.

Can we see a correlation with heel height? With body length? With territory?

As his hip problem is assumed to be the sole reason for his painkiller problem I might need to be convinced about the correlation between high heels and hip problems, ultimately resulting in operations.

LOL Udo, you don't need statistics for that. The atheletic stuff Prince was doing with those heels would have caused anyone a major hip problem. Add to that all the dancing, no sleep and whatever. I mean if he was just a regular dancer by profession he would have had a hip problem like most dancers do.. You don't know ballet dancers' feet are damanaged when they are in their 30s? Prince was doing some crazy moves and foot word back in the day with those high heels.

herb4 said:

Since when was Obama called a drug addict?!

Mumio said:

I have a question: are people looking at the opiate use as being for a chronic pain issue or are people seeing it as recreational abuse? I'm asking because if he was using it for chronic pain (which is what I believe), why would he be trying to get off it? What was he supposed to use for the pain he was in? Is Suboxone really that great of a substitute for pain relief? I've seen some internet postings saying it wasn't great for pain relief.

Suboxone provides no relief for pain b/c it blocks the opiate receptors. It was designed as an in-office alternative to methadone, which can only be provided in a clinic. To start Suboxone, the doctor has to put the patient in medium withdrawal, which means no opiates for up to 24 hours under monitoried conditions b/c medium withdrawal will be vomiting/diarrhea. So unless P had stopped taking opiates for a day prior (and he hadn't b/c he had a fentanyl patch on him) they would not have been able to give him the flown from CA Suboxone.

Fentanyl patches are fraught with error to use without (a) good pain management MD and (b) good support system at home (they were designed for someone else/a carer to put on you). A pain management MD could switch him to oxycontin or Embeda, long acting opiates in pill form. It doesn't sound like he had either (a) or (b). Makes me sad.

Jessica55 said:

Mumio said:

I have a question: are people looking at the opiate use as being for a chronic pain issue or are people seeing it as recreational abuse? I'm asking because if he was using it for chronic pain (which is what I believe), why would he be trying to get off it? What was he supposed to use for the pain he was in? Is Suboxone really that great of a substitute for pain relief? I've seen some internet postings saying it wasn't great for pain relief.

Suboxone provides no relief for pain b/c it blocks the opiate receptors. It was designed as an in-office alternative to methadone, which can only be provided in a clinic. To start Suboxone, the doctor has to put the patient in medium withdrawal, which means no opiates for up to 24 hours under monitoried conditions b/c medium withdrawal will be vomiting/diarrhea. So unless P had stopped taking opiates for a day prior (and he hadn't b/c he had a fentanyl patch on him) they would not have been able to give him the flown from CA Suboxone.

Fentanyl patches are fraught with error to use without (a) good pain management MD and (b) good support system at home (they were designed for someone else/a carer to put on you). A pain management MD could switch him to oxycontin or Embeda, long acting opiates in pill form. It doesn't sound like he had either (a) or (b). Makes me sad.

Thank you! My thoughts were always that he was to see the CA doc for pain management, not to get off opioids. I don't believe every single thing the media nor those who knew him have said. If he had a pain issue, there was no way he could magically revert to taking nothing. I have NEVER believed it was recreational use at all and NEVER believed it was long term use either, he needed the help to function as well as he did imo.

AA1slot said:

laurarichardson said:

AA1slot said:

Until I see OFFICIAL documentation or word from next of kin (Tyka) that Prince was a junkie and used for years....you will never convince me otherwise. I believe whatever his problem was it was for a short time. One can't abuse a drug like Fentanyl for a long period of time and not have it show or for that matter any painkiller. Based on personal experience as well, I believe he did become physically dependent on painkillers and was trying to self treat prior to receiving professional help. See Dr' Drew's comments on this...and eventually we give our selves away. How can anyone really think that he could perform the way he did and be a long term user? At any rate, what business is it of ours to probe into the health of someone else unless that individual wanted it to be known? Or the circumstances of their death? Nor do I believe it was a suicide...he weathered many storms through out his career and had plans for the future...to me that does not sound like someone wanting to end it. Perhaps it was a combination of drugs, the timing of the dosage, or whomever gave it to him said this will fix ya right up? Why do we want to believe the worst about him? Why would he change his disciplined lifestyle now? Sorta reminds me of guilty until proven innocent. What if we never know...then what? The whole negative spinand speculation that many appear to be willing to accept as possible truth truly saddens me.

--- Co-sign. No sane person could think this person could work at his pace and have been long term recertional drug user. This had to be recent and could have been due to other health issues.

.

Ever see "The Doctors" on TV?

Read this, from today's New York Times -- it describes the addiction of that well-known female determatologist (Cheryl Karcher) who was a regular on that show AND who had a successful practice at the same time. It also describes her symptoms:

http://www.nytimes.com/20...ogist.html
.

laurarichardson said:

AA1slot said:

Read somewhere and maybe it was here on the org, that he was treated for sepsis from a B12 shot a year or two ago.

-- I hope that is not true Sepsis can be a result of cancer.

.

THAT report (here) quotes the ickiest "blind item" website out there (crazy days and nights, aka "Entertainment Lawyer" who is neither in the entertainment business NOR a lawyer).

Sepsis is a common blood infection; it is no more common in cancer patients than anyone else

How about we use legitimate news sources?

.

Jessica55 said:

Mumio said:

I have a question: are people looking at the opiate use as being for a chronic pain issue or are people seeing it as recreational abuse? I'm asking because if he was using it for chronic pain (which is what I believe), why would he be trying to get off it? What was he supposed to use for the pain he was in? Is Suboxone really that great of a substitute for pain relief? I've seen some internet postings saying it wasn't great for pain relief.

Suboxone provides no relief for pain b/c it blocks the opiate receptors. It was designed as an in-office alternative to methadone, which can only be provided in a clinic. To start Suboxone, the doctor has to put the patient in medium withdrawal, which means no opiates for up to 24 hours under monitoried conditions b/c medium withdrawal will be vomiting/diarrhea. So unless P had stopped taking opiates for a day prior (and he hadn't b/c he had a fentanyl patch on him) they would not have been able to give him the flown from CA Suboxone.

Fentanyl patches are fraught with error to use without (a) good pain management MD and (b) good support system at home (they were designed for someone else/a carer to put on you). A pain management MD could switch him to oxycontin or Embeda, long acting opiates in pill form. It doesn't sound like he had either (a) or (b). Makes me sad.

Suboxone does provide pain relief but there is a limit to its effectiveness:

.

"Partial agonists are drugs that bind primarily to endorphin opioid receptors and cause them to produce endorphins but to a much lesser extent than full agonists. Buprenorphine, Suboxone and Subutex are partial agonists. When the dosage of a full agonist is increased, the opioids will activate more receptors and create more endorphins. When the dosage of a partial agonist is increased, there is only a small increase, if any, in the production of endorphins."

.

Fentanyl patches are easy enough to use at home without assistance. It's hard to go wrong with them. Unless you heat them up or take all the contents in one go then they are not generally a problem and side effects are not extreme. Our relative moved from Oxy to Fentanyl patches which were found to be much easier to use. The only problem we have is the user forgetting to change the patch after 3 days and wondering why they are suddenly feeling so ill. That happens a lot.

.

Do we know P's Fentanyl was a patch?