Hummm... that certainly makes immediately lawyering up (both Dad and son) make much more sense.

But... what if it turns out Prince actually took enough heroin throughout his adult life to warrant a sustained Middle Eastern incursion by Western property speculators?

Would certainly explain the period at least.

I want to believe Prince to have taken all the heroin known to man, at scales incomprehensible to all life on the planet.

I don't want sordid newspaper gossip - I want Prince to have caused the supposed £2.45 billion NHS funding deficit, just through one piano note.

sunset3121 said:

Menes said:

Each circumstance is different as is gene expression. For as many stars as we can name that outlived Prince, there are as many as you can name whose life was cut shorter. I would be even more specific and name those who died of drug overdose/mixture to show that it is , in fact, very believable.

1. Phillip Hoffman (46)

- Philip Seymour Hoffman died of a drugs overdose in February after being kicked out of the family home by his partner and L'Wren Scott committed suicide in March, reportedly in millions of dollars of debt

2. Cory Montieth (31) -

Glee star had been clean for three months after attending rehab

Coroner believes he didn't realise his limits had changed

3. Lisa Kelly ( 43) - passed away in her sleep - her entry into rehab had been preceded by a difficult period for Kelly. Replaced on “That ’70s Show” for the series’ sixth season, Kelly had made headlines for troubled behavior in the months leading up to her death. Kelly was arrested in November 2012 for allegedly assaulting her husband, and earlier that year had been charged with corporal injury of a spouse.

4. Chris Kelly( 34) -

Paramedics found Kelly unresponsive on a couch in his living room - but Kelly's mother told investigators of her son's history of drug abuse, and said that he had used cocaine and heroin the night before his death.

5. Whitney Houston (46) -

had frittered away her $100 million fortune on years of drug abuse and high living and was on the skids when she died. Decades of narcotics use took such a tol

6. Amy Winehouse (27) - last stint in rehab was reportedly in May 2011, however, her

attempts to get clean never truly helped her defeat her demons. At a

disastrous show in Belgrade in June, she showed up more than an hour

late, then repeatedly left the stage mid-performance, forgot lyrics to

her songs and even dropped a microphone.

7. JImi Hendrix(27) - the post-mortem revealed that he had vomited in his sleep and choked to death having overdosed on Monika’s sleeping tablets. In search of a full night’s sleep, Jimi asked Monika for some of her powerful German sedatives, Vesparax. Unaware of the half-tablet dosage, Jimi took nine. His reckless mixing of drugs and alcohol had become so commonplace the previous year that his girlfriends regularly woke up to hear him gasping and had to clear his windpipe.

8. Janis Joplin( 27) - Following a long struggle with substance abuse, Joplin died from an accidental heroin overdose

Just to name a few who were all under the age of 57.

All extremely troubled.

Subjectively, do you think he was "troubled" or was he happy?

Jessica55 said:

muleFunk said:

muleFunk said:

herb4 said:

To what end? Just to sell papers?

https://www.youtube.com/w...pOo-DtgUjs

[Edited 7/22/16 15:17pm]

[Edited 7/22/16 15:18pm]

I don't buy it. "Let's smear Prince just because he's black" I mean. And fuck Bill Cosby while we're at it. 62 women are lying?

Jessica55 said:

My first post so I'm really nervous. I wanted to reply to the posts about Dr. Howard Kornfeld but I was directed to this thread. I live in the Bay Area about 30 minutes away from Dr. Kornfeld, I have chronic pain and a doctor here who specializes in pain management, so I have some knowledge of him. I have no idea why anyone in Prince's circle thought he was appropriate for the situation. While the description of him on his website says he's board certified in pain and addiction, that's not true. The California Board of Medicine lists him as board certified only in emergency medicine and psychiatry and neurology/sleep medicine. His Recovery Without Walls is an outpatient clinic and if you want to see him and you don't live nearby, you stay in a private residence or a "local boutique hotel" near the clinic (this is the language from his website). It's in Mill Valley, California. There aren't any hotels nearby where Prince would want to stay. There are some pretty houses there but I can't imagine him renting one (or there being much to rent). Usually the charm of the pretty houses in Mill Valley is that they are just a few blocks from downtown. Dr. Kornfeld's attorney said Kornfeld was going to "devise a treatment plan" with "24 hour care" which sounds good until you realize it means renting a house or staying in a hotel in Mill Valley. Were they going to put Prince on a plane to SFO and drive him to Mill Valley? That's ridiculous and the whole situation with Kornfeld makes me so sad.

I don't think you need to be nervous posting on an internet forum, especially this one, and your post was fine. Have you read some of the crazy, off the wall shit people post here? Sometimes including myself?

NAh...I'm just kidding. My posts always kick ass.

RachB65 said:

babet said:

We don't know what the investigators found in his place, if the staff is claiming they didn't know he was on anything, (they had to know something was off with Prince). They would not even know what to look for. Plus people that are on drugs, especially as secretative as Prince would never leave that laying around for anyone to find, would actually hide it. If one of his staff found any drugs, they could had sold the information and photos to National Enquirer and get a 10 year pay day for the information. At the rate he was making frequent trips to Walgreens, whatever he had he was using up at a fast rate. You can be sure he did not have a surplus stock pile of fenytal or street drugs, any one with an addicition disease uses the drugs as fast as they cop it. If the EMT's were not called right away perhaps the doctor there was trying to revive him even though he knew he was probably gone, but tried anyway (it's his job to try). Reports say he was dead for almost 6 hours, so what would the rush be at that point? I said it before I will say again, unfortunately Prince was to blame for his dismise. He refused to stay in the hospital after the save shot, (no private rooms? you take a bed by the window and keep the curtain drawn the person in the next bed probably would not even know who was there until a private room opened) that is no excuse to check out of a hospital in his addicted state and near death experience. That should have been a rude awakening and a warning of what was to come.

I am curious to know

1)what happened between the time he returned home around 8:00PM and 3:00AM, if he let anyone in during those times, if he went to door to get any packages.

2)when he was found in the elevator? was he leaving his living quarters?, was he at the main door and returning up to his living quarters? was he in the studio and going to his living quarters?

There is alot of information that is not being released to the public, what the security cameras showed and door opening and closing times, as far as people in and out between 8PM - 3PM. What they may have found in his living quarters, if anything? (I think not a hell of alot). What area and floor of Pasely Park was he found on? Did one of his staff members hit the elevator button in the lobby and did it come to the lobby and they found him in it when the door opened? Or was the elevator stopped on the floor with him in it? Was he blocking the doors from closing? Did he hit an alarm button in the elevator which brought the staff there and then the 2 doctors? and Kornfield on that early flight ? he had to be on the first flight out of CA, like a red eye, 5AM, because he got a call at 3:30AM or 4AM? SO many things we don't know and so much information has not been made public.

[Edited 7/20/16 15:30pm]

Its been established that he was not getting prescriptions for opiates at the Walgreens he was seen at the night before he died. The doctor supposedley showed up AFTER the EMTs were at PP. The "no private rooms" @ the hospital was bs and P stayed in the hospital for 18 hours after he arrived there. [Edited 7/21/16 12:43pm]

I think the no private rooms would be that he was more than likely on a 23/24 hour observation which is different than an 'admission'. Most 24 hour observations don't get admitted into a 'room'. they were probably watching him in the ER.

muleFunk said:

herb4 said:

To what end? Just to sell papers?

https://www.youtube.com/w...pOo-DtgUjs

[Edited 7/22/16 15:17pm]

[Edited 7/22/16 15:18pm]

What about this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PybA9gf0fJI

herb4 said:

muleFunk said:

https://www.youtube.com/w...pOo-DtgUjs

[Edited 7/22/16 15:17pm]

[Edited 7/22/16 15:18pm]

I don't buy it. "Let's smear Prince just because he's black" I mean. And fuck Bill Cosby while we're at it. 62 women are lying?

That cracked me up.I dont buy it either. The notion that a smear/slander campaign is in effect because of race is absurd and would be quickly dismissed by anyone with a pulse on the story. In contrast, a story/point of view devoid of any evidence of drug use is clearly a feeble attempt to deflect and can only be supported by fanatics who are blinded by the genius of his music. Imagine if in a court of law a potential juror stated that he could not conclude that "Dr.Huxtable" is capable of doing what people are accusing Bill Cosby of ...regardless of the evidence. We all have secrets.

A better discussion would be why did everyone take so long to say something/do something? The notion that no one saw him(P) as a recreational user because (x) amount of people said they didn't see him doing it, is not only farcical but it also borders on a statistical syllogism that is inconsistent with the patterns of someone who does not want you to know he/she may have a problem."Hey Larry, I'm high and I'm nodding out, call me back". Yeah. Amazing.

sonshine said:

Jessica55 said:

My first post so I'm really nervous. I wanted to reply to the posts about Dr. Howard Kornfeld but I was directed to this thread. I live in the Bay Area about 30 minutes away from Dr. Kornfeld, I have chronic pain and a doctor here who specializes in pain management, so I have some knowledge of him. I have no idea why anyone in Prince's circle thought he was appropriate for the situation. While the description of him on his website says he's board certified in pain and addiction, that's not true. The California Board of Medicine lists him as board certified only in emergency medicine and psychiatry and neurology/sleep medicine. His Recovery Wiithout Walls is an outpatient clinic and i f you want to see him and you don't live nearby, you stay in a private residence or a "local boutique hotel" near the clinic (this is the language from his website). It's in Mill Valley, California. There aren't any hotels nearby where Prince would want to stay. There are some pretty houses there but I can't imagine him renting one (or there being much to rent). Usually the charm of the pretty houses in Mill Valley is that they are just a few blocks from downtown. Dr. Kornfeld's attorney said Kornfeld was going to "devise a treatment plan" with "24 hour care" which sounds good until you realize it means renting a house or staying in a hotel in Mill Valley. Were they going to put Prince on a plane to SFO and drive him to Mill Valley? That's ridiculous and the whole situation with Kornfeld makes me so sad.

It's important to keep in mind that this was an urgent situation and I think people were scrambling trying to fid help, any help. This guy was probably known of by some associates of Prince's or was recommended by someone they trusted. It doesn't sound like the had a lot of time to be researching all their options. He was in crisis and something needed to be done. Yes, prince should have stayed on hosp after the 1st OD but it was in a strange city and in a hosp that wasn't likely able to provide the specific care he needed anyway. It would have been good for them to help with a referral to a more appropriate facility or care team preferably directly from the moline hosp. It's very hard tho when you have a reluctant patient, especially one as sensitive about his privacy as Prince. It's incredibly hard to ask for help. It would have been even more so for someone who needed to control everything. It cant be overstated the enormity of the battle to overcome dependence on opiates. And maybe this dr Kornfeld would have had success with Prince, and maybe not. Most people need to have a go at recovery more than once before it actually works. You have to start somewhere. [Edited 7/22/16 22:11pm]

What I was trying to say about Kornfeld not being appropriate (I shouldn't have written that whole part about Mill Valley which is irrelevant) was it sounds like Prince suffered from chronic pain. Like many of us who suffer from chronic pain, we take opiates because we've already tried less powerful medicines and they didn't alleviate the pain enough to allow us to function. Or walk. Walking is crucial. So he needed a doctor to help manage the opiates, not get off them.

Menes said:

sunset3121 said:

All extremely troubled.

Subjectively, do you think he was "troubled" or was he happy?

I don't know - people that seem the life and soul can be extremely troubled and those that have every reason to be miserable can be happy at heart. You just don't hear of that sort of crazy stuff from the P camp. Were they just good at hiding it or was it something else?

You don't have to "buy" the theory. It's not for sale.

I'm not believing this whole drug/Heroin addict theme that many of you are promoting as well.

Griffin speaks much truth.

One of the goals of COINTELPRO was to discredit anyone black if they didn't follow the agenda.

Micheal was fine until he started railing against Sony.

Bill was fine until he started getting political.

Prince was fine until he rose up for his masters.

Here is another link if you want to see the documentation. If not keep scrolling.

http://genius.com/Federal...-annotated

herb4 said:

muleFunk said:

https://www.youtube.com/w...pOo-DtgUjs

[Edited 7/22/16 15:17pm]

[Edited 7/22/16 15:18pm]

I don't buy it. "Let's smear Prince just because he's black" I mean. And fuck Bill Cosby while we're at it. 62 women are lying?

BTW if you really looked at these so called allegations only 5 say something illegal happened and 4 have been proven false and the case that's coming up for trial has many, many holes.

You have women who were working for escort services saying that he drugged them in the Playboy Mansion in 1974. If this was a regular case no media outlet in their right mind would put this out as credible but since we live in a tabloid media era anyone with a agent can get this type of junk out there with no real proof to back up the claim.

AND YOU BELIEVE IT.

Menes said:

LBrent said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Prince is outlived in age by the likes of Little Richard, Chuck Berry, MJ's parents, Keith Richards and er Mike Parry. Unbelievable.

George Best also managed to live 2 years longer, having been an alcoholic all his adult life, and I've seen tramps seemingly into their 60s get by.

All of the Rolling Stones AND Dizzy Osbourne. Boggles my mind for sure.

.

Au contraire: BRIAN JONES.

(We really old ones were around then LOL)

.

[Edited 7/23/16 7:58am]

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

That cracked me up.I dont buy it either. The notion that a smear/slander campaign is in effect because of race is absurd and would be quickly dismissed by anyone with a pulse on the story. In contrast, a story/point of view devoid of any evidence of drug use is clearly a feeble attempt to deflect and can only be supported by fanatics who are blinded by the genius of his music. Imagine if in a court of law a potential juror stated that he could not conclude that "Dr.Huxtable" is capable of doing what people are accusing Bill Cosby of ...regardless of the evidence. We all have secrets.

A better discussion would be why did everyone take so long to say something/do something? The notion that no one saw him(P) as a recreational user because (x) amount of people said they didn't see him doing it, is not only farcical but it also borders on a statistical syllogism that is inconsistent with the patterns of someone who does not want you to know he/she may have a problem."Hey Larry, I'm high and I'm nodding out, call me back". Yeah. Amazing.

--- Okay let's get in touch with reality!!! No one can continue to function on dope at the same level for long period of time !!! How did Prince continue to work on music, philanthropy, tour playing an a piano show were he talked with the audience, date a few chicks, and travel internationally. Estates cannot sue for slander or libel so why are we not hearing stories about his drug use? The tabloids would pay big money for these stories even if people were lying. I think he was trying to go cold turkey and was getting his ass kick withdrawals and took Opaids to get in over the hump and it was too much and killed him. I believe corporate controlled media loves to focus on the negative anyway and loves to do with black people because it feeds into stereotypes and it sells. You can count the number of positive stories on Africa Americans and our community in one hand. The only good thing is that P did not have a lot of scandals when he was alive and it is obvious that story is fading from the news because they cannot dig up anything.

.

True.

What's really interesting is that after the first OD, he apparently tried to go clean (that "increasingly agitated" period).....BUT the call for the "grave condition" was made on the 20th, indicating that he'd had a serious relapse.

That's the day he went to the clinic (Dr S), was given fluids and prescriptions.

Then he went home.....the end.

.

Jessica55 said:

laytonian said:

laurarichardson said:

Menes said: --- Okay let's get in touch with reality!!! No one can continue to function on dope at the same level for long period of time !!! How did Prince continue to work on music, philanthropy, tour playing an a piano show were he talked with the audience, date a few chicks, and travel internationally. Estates cannot sue for slander or libel so why are we not hearing stories about his drug use? The tabloids would pay big money for these stories even if people were lying. I think he was trying to go cold turkey and was getting his ass kick withdrawals and took Opaids to get in over the hump and it was too much and killed him. I believe corporate controlled media loves to focus on the negative anyway and loves to do with black people because it feeds into stereotypes and it sells. You can count the number of positive stories on Africa Americans and our community in one hand. The only good thing is that P did not have a lot of scandals when he was alive and it is obvious that story is fading from the news because they cannot dig up anything.

.

True.

What's really interesting is that after the first OD, he apparently tried to go clean (that "increasingly agitated" period).....BUT the call for the "grave condition" was made on the 20th, indicating that he'd had a serious relapse.

That's the day he went to the clinic (Dr S), was given fluids and prescriptions.

Then he went home.....the end.

.

So we have a couple of months of stomach upset, sore throat and weight loss reported by the chef. It was an odd description of flu - not to feel well for 'weeks at a time' as if it was coming in waves. Then, after months of this he cancels the shows because of flu and needs to see a Dr on 7th. By the 11th he is well enough to rearrange the concerts and he completes them successfully but his eyes suddenly fix and he loses consciousness in the middle of a conversation on the way home. He takes a long time to revive but was his old self after the incident and wants to watch zootopia. He tweets that he is listening to the single version of controversy that evening. He is also said to have responded to a concerned friend "Perfect. Save your prayers. Controversy."

He then hosts the dance party the next day and says “Wait a few days before you waste any prayers".

Two days later he is out cycling.

Two days later he needs fluids and medication from the clinic (I presume this was the initial hospital reference). He picks up non-opoid medication at Walgreens. He then OD's on Fentanyl in the elevator of all places (a drug that makes you drowsy on OD - where was he going?).

......

So, if he was suddenly starts withdrawal on 16th after the dance party (I presume it would have to be as he was "his old self" at the hospital and later hosted the dance party) what was the cause of him not feeling well for weeks at a time for months before all this? It doesn't sound like a description of flu.

The event in the plane does not sound like a Fentanyl OD. It is odd how it was described. Later, there is no description of him going into withdrawal due to the narcan shots despite what would have to be really heavy usuage to account for all the later problems. If he was taking painkillers he was likely to be on a steady dose when he left the hospital to account for JH's description.

In theory he then decided to withdraw himself but it gets so severe he need fluids! Has it been so bad that he has been unable to drink/vomiting or something else? Are the other meds to help with withdrawal and why was someone from so far away chosen to call instead of getting immediate help?

This all occured very suddenly after him being such a reliable performer and people around him reporting no drug use. How is it he does not have the reported history of drug use and problems that most people that die from OD have? Why were there no leaks? If the story being told is ongoing problems with painkiller use, why doesn't the family come out and say so to clear up the speculation?

[Edited 7/23/16 10:41am]

sunset3121 said:

/// I believe the family will come out and say something later. It is also possible he had other issues outside of pain pills and joint pain pills. We know use of the pills can cause organ damage and respiratory problems. He was getting test results the day he died and had two Rxs filled at Walgreens that were not pain meds.

.

.

So, in theory, his liver could be damaged from years of excessive painkiller use or, more often its from an OD

.

"liver is therefore heavily stressed by prescription painkiller abuse and can store toxins from the breakdown process. But the most significant liver damage results from the acetaminophen that is included in many of the formulas."

.

And he could have drug-induced hepatitis with anorexia (loss of appetite), fatigue, and nausea.

.

and perhaps the kidneys:

"Chronic use of painkillers for years can have a directly damaging effect on the kidneys, leading to the need for dialysis or transplant. It is not the opiate in the painkillers that disables the kidneys, but the secondary analgesics such as acetaminophen."

.

This theory would have him in a very bad way from the time the chef noticed the changes - a couple of months before April would make it mid February.

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

That cracked me up.I dont buy it either. The notion that a smear/slander campaign is in effect because of race is absurd and would be quickly dismissed by anyone with a pulse on the story. In contrast, a story/point of view devoid of any evidence of drug use is clearly a feeble attempt to deflect and can only be supported by fanatics who are blinded by the genius of his music. Imagine if in a court of law a potential juror stated that he could not conclude that "Dr.Huxtable" is capable of doing what people are accusing Bill Cosby of ...regardless of the evidence. We all have secrets.

--- Okay let's get in touch with reality!!! No one can continue to function on dope at the same level for long period of time !!!

Absolutely not true.

You'd probably be surprised to learn how many high functioning addicts there are in society; doctors, lawyers, cops, bankers, day traders, pro atheletes, even diet pill popping housewives. Obviously, heroin's another story and no one thinks Prince was into that, at least I don't, but prescription meds and painkillers? Absolutely you can function on this stuff, especially if, like Prince, you have no real set 9-5 type schedule and can basically do whatever you want whenever you want, complete with an entire staff of people that do your bidding whenever you need something and who tend to the mundane day to day bullshit like laundry, driving, housework, trash, dishes, etc.

I just think it's absurd (if I'm reading a few of posts correctly) that the whole investigation and the facts that are coming out are some sort of grand conspiracy to "bring down and smear a famous black guy". That's a bridge too far for me. Are people seriously implying that Bill Cosby is being set up? Why? He's always been viewed as "one of the good ones" by the type of people that would want him taken down. 62 women are lying? Seriously?

Did "they" take down Ali too? Last I checked, Barrack and Michelle Obama, Ben Carson, Micheal Jordan, Kanye West, Chuck D., Jay Z, Cube, Dre, Wil Smith, Denzel, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Sam Jackson, LeBron James, Russell Wilson, Dick Gregory, Cornell West, Beyonce, Serena Williams, Eric Holder, Chris Rock, Don Lemon, Oprah Winfrey, Trevor Noah, Kevin Hart, Dwayne Johnson and Condi Rice (just off the top of my head) are still functioning and doing quite well.

Or is it only when something bad happens that it must be a set up or a smear? What's to be gained by smearing Prince?

I have a question: are people looking at the opiate use as being for a chronic pain issue or are people seeing it as recreational abuse? I'm asking because if he was using it for chronic pain (which is what I believe), why would he be trying to get off it? What was he supposed to use for the pain he was in? Is Suboxone really that great of a substitute for pain relief? I've seen some internet postings saying it wasn't great for pain relief.

Mumio said:

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

stuff

I believe corporate controlled media loves to focus on the negative anyway and loves to do with black people because it feeds into stereotypes and it sells. You can count the number of positive stories on Africa Americans and our community in one hand.

I rattled off about 20 just free balling. Here's some more: Tavis Smiley, Montell Williams, Van Jones, Halle Berry, Steph Curry, Bruno Mars, Maya Angelou, Spike Lee, Danny Glover, Jerry Rice, D'Angelo, Herman Cain, Michael B. Jordan, Ralph Ellison, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Alex Haley, Morgan Freeman, Jesse Jackson, Stevie Woner, Tracey Morgan, Calvin Johnson, Julius Erving, Wayne Brady, Steve Harvey...

I'll be the first one to admit that black people in general, and black celebrities in particular, have a harder road most of the time but I'm not prepared to make the leap that "they" (whoever "they" are) would "smear" someone like Prince posthumously just to...to...

...to accomplish WHAT exactly?

Dude straight up died of a drug overdose and I haven't seen anyone who knew him closely dispute that.

Did "they smear" Phillip Seymour Hoffman, Heath Ledger, River Phoenix, Chris Farley, Belushi, Corey Haim, Judy Garland, Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, Anna Nicole Smith, George Best, John Entwhistle, Sid Vicious, Abbie Hoffman, Jon Bonham and Freddie Prinze too? When "they" did "smear" them, was that part of some far reaching agenda too?

I'm sympathetic to your arguments and frustration but you're reaching here.

sunset3121 said:

/// I believe the family will come out and say something later. It is also possible he had other issues outside of pain pills and joint pain pills. We know use of the pills can cause organ damage and respiratory problems. He was getting test results the day he died and had two Rxs filled at Walgreens that were not pain meds.

.

.

So, in theory, his liver could be damaged from years of excessive painkiller use or, more often its from an OD

.

"liver is therefore heavily stressed by prescription painkiller abuse and can store toxins from the breakdown process. But the most significant liver damage results from the acetaminophen that is included in many of the formulas."

.

And he could have drug-induced hepatitis with anorexia (loss of appetite), fatigue, and nausea.

.

and perhaps the kidneys:

"Chronic use of painkillers for years can have a directly damaging effect on the kidneys, leading to the need for dialysis or transplant. It is not the opiate in the painkillers that disables the kidneys, but the secondary analgesics such as acetaminophen."

.

This theory would have him in a very bad way from the time the chef noticed the changes - a couple of months before April would make it mid February.

.

Kidney failure has different symptoms (our daughter almost died from acute kidney failure). Your body stops ridding itself of urine, you appear to gain weight all over, your ankles are swollen, and your lungs are full of fluid. It's obvious that P wasn't swollen. Just the opposite.

BUT...acetaminophen, even under steady or above-normal usage, can cause liver damage. THAT can cause many of the symptoms P is reported to suffer from. It's in Percocet. The "stomach ache", for instance.

If they found no prescriptions for drugs, it's possible he was getting things from an unreliable source -- and that last report about the odd thing found in his sytem, may have been traced from drugs found at PP.

.

.

laytonian said:

sunset3121 said:

/// I believe the family will come out and say something later. It is also possible he had other issues outside of pain pills and joint pain pills. We know use of the pills can cause organ damage and respiratory problems. He was getting test results the day he died and had two Rxs filled at Walgreens that were not pain meds.

.

.

So, in theory, his liver could be damaged from years of excessive painkiller use or, more often its from an OD

.

"liver is therefore heavily stressed by prescription painkiller abuse and can store toxins from the breakdown process. But the most significant liver damage results from the acetaminophen that is included in many of the formulas."

.

And he could have drug-induced hepatitis with anorexia (loss of appetite), fatigue, and nausea.

.

and perhaps the kidneys:

"Chronic use of painkillers for years can have a directly damaging effect on the kidneys, leading to the need for dialysis or transplant. It is not the opiate in the painkillers that disables the kidneys, but the secondary analgesics such as acetaminophen."

.

This theory would have him in a very bad way from the time the chef noticed the changes - a couple of months before April would make it mid February.

.

Kidney failure has different symptoms (our daughter almost died from acute kidney failure). Your body stops ridding itself of urine, you appear to gain weight all over, your ankles are swollen, and your lungs are full of fluid. It's obvious that P wasn't swollen. Just the opposite.

BUT...acetaminophen, even under steady or above-normal usage, can cause liver damage. THAT can cause many of the symptoms P is reported to suffer from. It's in Percocet. The "stomach ache", for instance.

If they found no prescriptions for drugs, it's possible he was getting things from an unreliable source -- and that last report about the odd thing found in his sytem, may have been traced from drugs found at PP.

.

.

Some damage could have occured to the kidneys without complete failure if it was an OD/excessive use that caused the problems. My elderley relative with failing kidneys had some swelling of the ankles and feet, lost weight and was tired but there were no other obvious signs for a long time.

.

However, this is pure conjecture. It could be this OR he could have had some other disease that resulted in him to taking the pain meds or becoming agitated.

We know he had meds for something else and he was having tests done, we just have no idea what this something else was and how it tied in with the painkillers, if at all.

Mumio said:

I have a question: are people looking at the opiate use as being for a chronic pain issue or are people seeing it as recreational abuse? I'm asking because if he was using it for chronic pain (which is what I believe), why would he be trying to get off it? What was he supposed to use for the pain he was in? Is Suboxone really that great of a substitute for pain relief? I've seen some internet postings saying it wasn't great for pain relief.

.

"The Star Tribune, citing a source with knowledge of the investigation, previously reported that Prince had been receiving treatment for withdrawal symptoms from a doctor who previously worked with Prince's longtime friend Kirk Johnson."

That would be the first visit, April 7th (the day they had to cancel the Atlanta concert). From that, it sounds like he was trying to kick the drugs himself but was having issues.

THEN, a week later, while under whatever treatment, he ODs in the plane.
Less than a week later, the same day he saw Dr S for the second time, he ODs (fatally).

This is actually the best article and questions. Good sourcing.

http://www.startribune.com/prince-saw-longtime-experienced-family-care-physician/378980721/ (tar-Tribune, May 11, 2016)

[Edited 7/23/16 15:40pm]

Jessica55 said:

My first post so I'm really nervous. I wanted to reply to the posts about Dr. Howard Kornfeld but I was directed to this thread. I live in the Bay Area about 30 minutes away from Dr. Kornfeld, I have chronic pain and a doctor here who specializes in pain management, so I have some knowledge of him. I have no idea why anyone in Prince's circle thought he was appropriate for the situation. While the description of him on his website says he's board certified in pain and addiction, that's not true. The California Board of Medicine lists him as board certified only in emergency medicine and psychiatry and neurology/sleep medicine. His Recovery Without Walls is an outpatient clinic and if you want to see him and you don't live nearby, you stay in a private residence or a "local boutique hotel" near the clinic (this is the language from his website). It's in Mill Valley, California. There aren't any hotels nearby where Prince would want to stay. There are some pretty houses there but I can't imagine him renting one (or there being much to rent). Usually the charm of the pretty houses in Mill Valley is that they are just a few blocks from downtown. Dr. Kornfeld's attorney said Kornfeld was going to "devise a treatment plan" with "24 hour care" which sounds good until you realize it means renting a house or staying in a hotel in Mill Valley. Were they going to put Prince on a plane to SFO and drive him to Mill Valley? That's ridiculous and the whole situation with Kornfeld makes me so sad.

Hello.

I don't live in the area or have any kind of connection or particular opinion on the Kornfelds. However ASAM (American Society of Addiction Medicine) does list him as being certified. Additionally, California could pull his medical license for false advertisement of certifications - they have specific regulations on this.

Regarding the outpatient status, that came out before although I don't recall where - if it was in the attorney press conference or a news article... Anyway, at the time I thought that Prince would probably only consider that type of care, where he wouldn't have to be involved in any traditional type settings with other patients.

Not sure if you mean he's known as a charlatan who's getting by with something ("I have some knowledge of him") but that's my disinterested surface understanding.

Jessica55 said:

What I was trying to say about Kornfeld not being appropriate (I shouldn't have written that whole part about Mill Valley which is irrelevant) was it sounds like Prince suffered from chronic pain. Like many of us who suffer from chronic pain, we take opiates because we've already tried less powerful medicines and they didn't alleviate the pain enough to allow us to function. Or walk. Walking is crucial. So he needed a doctor to help manage the opiates, not get off them.

Clinic reviews, both positive and negative, indicated that RWW is not abstinence-based and does both medication management and addiction management/treatment. Again something that I'd read about back when their involvement became public, that it seemed to offer both options. Another reason they may have been recommended.

laytonian said:

Mumio said:

I have a question: are people looking at the opiate use as being for a chronic pain issue or are people seeing it as recreational abuse? I'm asking because if he was using it for chronic pain (which is what I believe), why would he be trying to get off it? What was he supposed to use for the pain he was in? Is Suboxone really that great of a substitute for pain relief? I've seen some internet postings saying it wasn't great for pain relief.

.

"The Star Tribune, citing a source with knowledge of the investigation, previously reported that Prince had been receiving treatment for withdrawal symptoms from a doctor who previously worked with Prince's longtime friend Kirk Johnson."

That would be the first visit, April 7th (the day they had to cancel the Atlanta concert). From that, it sounds like he was trying to kick the drugs himself but was having issues.

THEN, a week later, while under whatever treatment, he ODs in the plane.
Less than a week later, the same day he saw Dr S for the second time, he ODs (fatally).

This is actually the best article and questions. Good sourcing.

http://www.startribune.com/prince-saw-longtime-experienced-family-care-physician/378980721/ (tar-Tribune, May 11, 2016)

[Edited 7/23/16 15:40pm]

In addition, ( since we are sourcing) that same paper (the Star Tribune) stated that " a source with knowledge of the investigation told the Tribune that the doctor had been treating (P) for opioid addiction several weeks before his death. The source also stated that the doctor did not prescribe opioids to the megastar. The article goes on to say that detective Christina Wagner interviewed (Johnson) and that Johnson stated that (P) had been treated for an undisclosed illness in 2014-1015". The article was written by Dan Browning and Jerry Olson.