DiscoBallz said:

I've kind of avoided this post because I'm not there yet. But for time being I'll just say that I *think* it's possible to enjoy an artist's work and also possible to be critical of that work at the same time.

smoothcriminal12 said:

savvy said:

See what I mean? If anyone has followed this line, you'll notice that this SJW edited my quote. Prince didn't hate. He didn't agree...but he didn't hate.

Why do people complain about SJWs? I only really hear bigots complain about SJWs (not calling you one at all, just drawing from previous experiences). I've never encountered them in real life and only hear about them being online and on university campuses, apparently. Is their impact overblown or are we really being overrun by oversensitive millenials? I personally feel like people are just overreacting to a very vocal minority.

"SJWs" don't exist anywhere except in the minds of a few people on the internet. It's a desperately stupid term that I hoped never to have to see on the Org, a site that I've always regarded as somehow apart from a lot of the shit that gets flung about online. Also, Savvy, I want to clarify that I'm not calling you personally stupid. Just the term "SJW".

SanMartin said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Why do people complain about SJWs? I only really hear bigots complain about SJWs (not calling you one at all, just drawing from previous experiences). I've never encountered them in real life and only hear about them being online and on university campuses, apparently. Is their impact overblown or are we really being overrun by oversensitive millenials? I personally feel like people are just overreacting to a very vocal minority.

"SJWs" don't exist anywhere except in the minds of a few people on the internet. It's a desperately stupid term that I hoped never to have to see on the Org, a site that I've always regarded as somehow apart from a lot of the shit that gets flung about online. Also, Savvy, I want to clarify that I'm not calling you personally stupid. Just the term "SJW".

Well regardless of personal feelings, as seen earlier in this line, they exist. Not because I say so, but because it is so.

jdcxc said:

savvy said:

JudasLChrist said:

This comment is super annoying. If you are against LGBT people, even if you back that up with your religious beliefs you are still accountable. You are still a bigot. There is no separation between LGBT people, and what you call 'SJW'. Fucking absurd.

See what I mean? If anyone has followed this line, you'll notice that this SJW edited my quote. Prince didn't hate. He didn't agree...but he didn't hate.

.

People who use "SJW" automatically lose credibility. But I'll entertain this: he told Wendy and Lisa they needed to find God and renounce being lesbians and become Jehovah's Witnesses. He also told a Muslim fan to find Christ. It was only for a very short period (around the time of The Rainbow Children release), and he ended up renouncing that hate and performed a few songs by gay musicians (a standout was Dance (Disco Heat) by Sylvester), but he did become hateful for a bit. That was confirmed by witnesses and the people who knew and cared about him. Sorry. Feel free to keep frothing at the mouth about SJWs, though.

.

.

.

TL;DR - For a short period of time, Prince was kind of a preachy ass. That was confirmed by the people around him. But he chilled out shortly thereafter. But the fact remains he did become that way.

[Edited 5/30/16 15:22pm]

EmmaMcG said:

jdcxc said:

DiscoBallz said:

Uhhh... that line is referring to another man buying her new perfume and clothes. Not that she slept with a woman and put on her stuff. WTF.

Maybe...maybe not. Ask Mayte.

Nah, I'm pretty sure it's not necessary.

Prince's homophobia was the thing I really detested about him, it was the only thing, especially as he had been so open minded back in the 1980s with songs like Uptown and the gender bending imagery of Lovesexy (He seemed to be outdoing the ladies).

.

The Jehovahs Witness cult is one of the most homophobic on earth, I think some of the extremo African countries like Uganda and Zimbabwe with their "Murder all the homosexuals policy" were less homophobic. Yet I felt Prince only joined that shit, so he could deflect the endless homosexual rumours judged upon him by a hyper masculine society that exists with the black male in general. Any black man who is not the me Tarzn, you Jane, big beard, heaps of lithe girls draped around their feet and wanting to ram their 12 inch long Love Jones into them imagery was considered gay.

.

To the simple minded masucline clod that dominated black music and culture from the 1970s to the 1990s (There was a period of sensitivity in the late 1980s/1990s but misogynitic thuggish death rap reinforced the machine gun sexism of black male culture). You know a culture is masculine and sexist when the lyrics in their songs refer to women as bitches and hos and nothing more than containers for the thugs sperm. And along comes Prince in make up, heels, frilly clothes, girly hair (The 1979 Fran Drescher Jewish perm thing) and singing in high voice. The insecurity of Black male masculine clod culture is immediately threatened with this man singing about getting it and he looks and acts like a transexual. The same stereotypes were also labelled on MJ.

.

Because these guys were so uncomfortable about being labelled gay or feminine, they hide behind the church, but not a love church like MCC but a hate cult like JW.

.

Later on I did not care about sexuality, but just loved the music. Of course the occasional biblical lyric and narrow minded religious crap put me off, while I don't like the Rainbow children at all. The lyrcis are abhorrent. I also think that subscribing to a dogmatic religion with instructions is a sign for those who do not have sufficient intelligence to think for themselves or choose their own path. Prince may have been a musical genius, but to me he was the same as any other simple minded earth am flat, pentecostal church going African American who lubbed de lawd.

.

Generally I find people with 3 figure IQs who respect science and reason and reject Christianity are more tolerant, whereas the intolerant group are ones who believe in creation and other church dogma and judge the LGBTQIA community for being "sinful". Prince's knowledge of global affairs and issues was minimal and selective and he closed his mind off a lot to external influences, this leads me to guess that Prince's IQ was only 2 figures, although probably in the 90s. He looked dumb that time discussing chemtrails and the latest simplistic conspiracy theories while wearing that 1880s style blouse on that talk show.

.

I find personally all of the people I know who are practicing Christians are quite "simple" and have no opinion on global affairs or bigger issues beyond the household, faith and family, yet all my intelligent friends are true blue atheists and we can discuss the most worldly and scientific matters all day long.

GuyBros said:

GirlBrother said:

GuyBros said:

No.

That wasn't a question.

Oh, ok.

"No?"

Adorecream said:

Prince's homophobia was the thing I really detested about him, it was the only thing, especially as he had been so open minded back in the 1980s with songs like Uptown and the gender bending imagery of Lovesexy (He seemed to be outdoing the ladies).

.

The Jehovahs Witness cult is one of the most homophobic on earth, I think some of the extremo African countries like Uganda and Zimbabwe with their "Murder all the homosexuals policy" were less homophobic. Yet I felt Prince only joined that shit, so he could deflect the endless homosexual rumours judged upon him by a hyper masculine society that exists with the black male in general. Any black man who is not the me Tarzn, you Jane, big beard, heaps of lithe girls draped around their feet and wanting to ram their 12 inch long Love Jones into them imagery was considered gay.

.

To the simple minded masucline clod that dominated black music and culture from the 1970s to the 1990s (There was a period of sensitivity in the late 1980s/1990s but misogynitic thuggish death rap reinforced the machine gun sexism of black male culture). You know a culture is masculine and sexist when the lyrics in their songs refer to women as bitches and hos and nothing more than containers for the thugs sperm. And along comes Prince in make up, heels, frilly clothes, girly hair (The 1979 Fran Drescher Jewish perm thing) and singing in high voice. The insecurity of Black male masculine clod culture is immediately threatened with this man singing about getting it and he looks and acts like a transexual. The same stereotypes were also labelled on MJ.

.

Because these guys were so uncomfortable about being labelled gay or feminine, they hide behind the church, but not a love church like MCC but a hate cult like JW.

.

Later on I did not care about sexuality, but just loved the music. Of course the occasional biblical lyric and narrow minded religious crap put me off, while I don't like the Rainbow children at all. The lyrcis are abhorrent. I also think that subscribing to a dogmatic religion with instructions is a sign for those who do not have sufficient intelligence to think for themselves or choose their own path. Prince may have been a musical genius, but to me he was the same as any other simple minded earth am flat, pentecostal church going African American who lubbed de lawd.

.

Generally I find people with 3 figure IQs who respect science and reason and reject Christianity are more tolerant, whereas the intolerant group are ones who believe in creation and other church dogma and judge the LGBTQIA community for being "sinful". Prince's knowledge of global affairs and issues was minimal and selective and he closed his mind off a lot to external influences, this leads me to guess that Prince's IQ was only 2 figures, although probably in the 90s. He looked dumb that time discussing chemtrails and the latest simplistic conspiracy theories while wearing that 1880s style blouse on that talk show.

.

I find personally all of the people I know who are practicing Christians are quite "simple" and have no opinion on global affairs or bigger issues beyond the household, faith and family, yet all my intelligent friends are true blue atheists and we can discuss the most worldly and scientific matters all day long.

Wow! Interesting take, even if I don't completely agree. In terms of the black male masculinity thing, don't musicians often get a semi-pass? There were plenty of jokes about Prince and Michael Jackson, plenty of shots at their manliness. Yet, they had huge followings, including many otherwise-obsessed-with-steroptypical-masculinity black folk. Do you really think this was a big insecurity of his, especially when he clearly chose to look the way he did, dress he way he did? Warner Brothers sure as heck wasn't pushing him to be that flamboyant, that gender-bending.

I always thought his becoming a JW was to find solace, to find some sort of inner peace due to whatever - the death of his child probably. I never thought of him joining JW to hide from something but it's an interesting point.

Also, in terms of JW, all I can think is "right place, right time" in terms of Larry Graham - who apparently really pushed it. Which is often the case with joining a religion - someone you know and like and trust introduces you to it. So, no Larry Graham and maybe Prince never gets that deep into JW.

.

People who use "SJW" automatically lose credibility. But I'll entertain this: he told Wendy and Lisa they needed to find God and renounce being lesbians and become Jehovah's Witnesses. He also told a Muslim fan to find Christ. It was only for a very short period (around the time of The Rainbow Children release), and he ended up renouncing that hate and performed a few songs by gay musicians (a standout was Dance (Disco Heat) by Sylvester), but he did become hateful for a bit. That was confirmed by witnesses and the people who knew and cared about him. Sorry. Feel free to keep frothing at the mouth about SJWs, though.

.

.

.

TL;DR - For a short period of time, Prince was kind of a preachy ass. That was confirmed by the people around him. But he chilled out shortly thereafter. But the fact remains he did become that way.

[Edited 5/30/16 15:22pm]

"People who use 'SJW' automatically lose credibility." hahahaha...spoken (written) like a real delicate snowflake, trigger warning becuase words hurt, SJW flower. He became hateful? Yeah, that myth won't really fly here. Seriously though, that's a ballsy troll move, coming to a Prince site and telling the world how full of hate and vitriol he was (a month after he died no less), when by every personal account. he was just the opposite. But I'll help you out. If you really have a need to show the world how this man was the quintessence of evil why don't you share how he threatened Morris and Paul with lawsuits when they wanted to use the names "The Time" and "The Family" respectively for reuninion tours. That should give you what you need. Enjoy.

Adorecream said:

Prince's homophobia was the thing I really detested about him, it was the only thing, especially as he had been so open minded back in the 1980s with songs like Uptown and the gender bending imagery of Lovesexy (He seemed to be outdoing the ladies).

.

The Jehovahs Witness cult is one of the most homophobic on earth, I think some of the extremo African countries like Uganda and Zimbabwe with their "Murder all the homosexuals policy" were less homophobic. Yet I felt Prince only joined that shit, so he could deflect the endless homosexual rumours judged upon him by a hyper masculine society that exists with the black male in general. Any black man who is not the me Tarzn, you Jane, big beard, heaps of lithe girls draped around their feet and wanting to ram their 12 inch long Love Jones into them imagery was considered gay.

.

To the simple minded masucline clod that dominated black music and culture from the 1970s to the 1990s (There was a period of sensitivity in the late 1980s/1990s but misogynitic thuggish death rap reinforced the machine gun sexism of black male culture). You know a culture is masculine and sexist when the lyrics in their songs refer to women as bitches and hos and nothing more than containers for the thugs sperm. And along comes Prince in make up, heels, frilly clothes, girly hair (The 1979 Fran Drescher Jewish perm thing) and singing in high voice. The insecurity of Black male masculine clod culture is immediately threatened with this man singing about getting it and he looks and acts like a transexual. The same stereotypes were also labelled on MJ.

.

Because these guys were so uncomfortable about being labelled gay or feminine, they hide behind the church, but not a love church like MCC but a hate cult like JW.

.

Later on I did not care about sexuality, but just loved the music. Of course the occasional biblical lyric and narrow minded religious crap put me off, while I don't like the Rainbow children at all. The lyrcis are abhorrent. I also think that subscribing to a dogmatic religion with instructions is a sign for those who do not have sufficient intelligence to think for themselves or choose their own path. Prince may have been a musical genius, but to me he was the same as any other simple minded earth am flat, pentecostal church going African American who lubbed de lawd.

.

Generally I find people with 3 figure IQs who respect science and reason and reject Christianity are more tolerant, whereas the intolerant group are ones who believe in creation and other church dogma and judge the LGBTQIA community for being "sinful". Prince's knowledge of global affairs and issues was minimal and selective and he closed his mind off a lot to external influences, this leads me to guess that Prince's IQ was only 2 figures, although probably in the 90s. He looked dumb that time discussing chemtrails and the latest simplistic conspiracy theories while wearing that 1880s style blouse on that talk show.

.

I find personally all of the people I know who are practicing Christians are quite "simple" and have no opinion on global affairs or bigger issues beyond the household, faith and family, yet all my intelligent friends are true blue atheists and we can discuss the most worldly and scientific matters all day long.

Another singularly outstanding trolling effort. Coming to a Prince site and writing a seven paragraph diatribe on how "homophobic" Prince was. Nice.

coltrane3 said:

Adorecream said:

Prince's homophobia was the thing I really detested about him, it was the only thing, especially as he had been so open minded back in the 1980s with songs like Uptown and the gender bending imagery of Lovesexy (He seemed to be outdoing the ladies).

.

The Jehovahs Witness cult is one of the most homophobic on earth, I think some of the extremo African countries like Uganda and Zimbabwe with their "Murder all the homosexuals policy" were less homophobic. Yet I felt Prince only joined that shit, so he could deflect the endless homosexual rumours judged upon him by a hyper masculine society that exists with the black male in general. Any black man who is not the me Tarzn, you Jane, big beard, heaps of lithe girls draped around their feet and wanting to ram their 12 inch long Love Jones into them imagery was considered gay.

.

To the simple minded masucline clod that dominated black music and culture from the 1970s to the 1990s (There was a period of sensitivity in the late 1980s/1990s but misogynitic thuggish death rap reinforced the machine gun sexism of black male culture). You know a culture is masculine and sexist when the lyrics in their songs refer to women as bitches and hos and nothing more than containers for the thugs sperm. And along comes Prince in make up, heels, frilly clothes, girly hair (The 1979 Fran Drescher Jewish perm thing) and singing in high voice. The insecurity of Black male masculine clod culture is immediately threatened with this man singing about getting it and he looks and acts like a transexual. The same stereotypes were also labelled on MJ.

.

Because these guys were so uncomfortable about being labelled gay or feminine, they hide behind the church, but not a love church like MCC but a hate cult like JW.

.

Later on I did not care about sexuality, but just loved the music. Of course the occasional biblical lyric and narrow minded religious crap put me off, while I don't like the Rainbow children at all. The lyrcis are abhorrent. I also think that subscribing to a dogmatic religion with instructions is a sign for those who do not have sufficient intelligence to think for themselves or choose their own path. Prince may have been a musical genius, but to me he was the same as any other simple minded earth am flat, pentecostal church going African American who lubbed de lawd.

.

Generally I find people with 3 figure IQs who respect science and reason and reject Christianity are more tolerant, whereas the intolerant group are ones who believe in creation and other church dogma and judge the LGBTQIA community for being "sinful". Prince's knowledge of global affairs and issues was minimal and selective and he closed his mind off a lot to external influences, this leads me to guess that Prince's IQ was only 2 figures, although probably in the 90s. He looked dumb that time discussing chemtrails and the latest simplistic conspiracy theories while wearing that 1880s style blouse on that talk show.

.

I find personally all of the people I know who are practicing Christians are quite "simple" and have no opinion on global affairs or bigger issues beyond the household, faith and family, yet all my intelligent friends are true blue atheists and we can discuss the most worldly and scientific matters all day long.

Wow! Interesting take, even if I don't completely agree. In terms of the black male masculinity thing, don't musicians often get a semi-pass? There were plenty of jokes about Prince and Michael Jackson, plenty of shots at their manliness. Yet, they had huge followings, including many otherwise-obsessed-with-steroptypical-masculinity black folk. Do you really think this was a big insecurity of his, especially when he clearly chose to look the way he did, dress he way he did? Warner Brothers sure as heck wasn't pushing him to be that flamboyant, that gender-bending.

I always thought his becoming a JW was to find solace, to find some sort of inner peace due to whatever - the death of his child probably. I never thought of him joining JW to hide from something but it's an interesting point.

Also, in terms of JW, all I can think is "right place, right time" in terms of Larry Graham - who apparently really pushed it. Which is often the case with joining a religion - someone you know and like and trust introduces you to it. So, no Larry Graham and maybe Prince never gets that deep into JW.

Wasn't Marvin Gayes father a cross dressing Preacher who was anti-gay?

It's all a pathology that even Prince probably could escape fully.

savvy said:

.

People who use "SJW" automatically lose credibility. But I'll entertain this: he told Wendy and Lisa they needed to find God and renounce being lesbians and become Jehovah's Witnesses. He also told a Muslim fan to find Christ. It was only for a very short period (around the time of The Rainbow Children release), and he ended up renouncing that hate and performed a few songs by gay musicians (a standout was Dance (Disco Heat) by Sylvester), but he did become hateful for a bit. That was confirmed by witnesses and the people who knew and cared about him. Sorry. Feel free to keep frothing at the mouth about SJWs, though.

.

.

.

TL;DR - For a short period of time, Prince was kind of a preachy ass. That was confirmed by the people around him. But he chilled out shortly thereafter. But the fact remains he did become that way.

[Edited 5/30/16 15:22pm]

"People who use 'SJW' automatically lose credibility." hahahaha...spoken (written) like a real delicate snowflake, trigger warning becuase words hurt, SJW flower. He became hateful? Yeah, that myth won't really fly here. Seriously though, that's a ballsy troll move, coming to a Prince site and telling the world how full of hate and vitriol he was (a month after he died no less), when by every personal account. he was just the opposite. But I'll help you out. If you really have a need to show the world how this man was the quintessence of evil why don't you share how he threatened Morris and Paul with lawsuits when they wanted to use the names "The Time" and "The Family" respectively for reuninion tours. That should give you what you need. Enjoy.

.

.

topkek. you're a moron. i guess i triggered you by saying that.

.

[Edited 5/30/16 23:15pm]

[Edited 5/30/16 23:15pm]

jdcxc said:

I believe he was greatly misunderstood as far as his religious views in his later life. He disavowed the homophobic quotes attributed to him. Part of the problem was his difficult interview rules, disdain for interviews. He constantly tweaked, tricked and played with the media. And far as the JWs, I never heard that they are more homophobic than ALL religions and people who are fundamentalists in their interpretation. Prince seemed to be moving away from the strict orthodoxy he held as a new convert 15 years ago.

.

Except his homophobia also showed elsewhere, like that time when a post on Prince's official website talked about how they had to shush away a guy who was a bit "too fabulous" (wink wink nudge nudge). And that was in the late 1990s.

RiotPaisley said:

h4rm0ny said:

"We tried to put together a [Revolution] reunion tour in 2000, and he declined because of my homosexuality and the fact I'm half-Jewish. It came back: Go have a press conference denouncing your homosexuality and that you're converting to Jehovah. I was like: I guess we'll never hear from him again. And I had to kind of mourn him. It was devastating to think we've kind of lost him." - Wendy Melvoin, 2004.

I was hoping that this incident was just a rumor looks like it really did happen

h4rm0ny said:

"We tried to put together a [Revolution] reunion tour in 2000, and he declined because of my homosexuality and the fact I'm half-Jewish. It came back: Go have a press conference denouncing your homosexuality and that you're converting to Jehovah. I was like: I guess we'll never hear from him again. And I had to kind of mourn him. It was devastating to think we've kind of lost him." - Wendy Melvoin, 2004.

Yeah, definitely remembered that interview.

iloveyeshua said:

iloveyeshua said:

SoulAlive said:

h4rm0ny said:

"We tried to put together a [Revolution] reunion tour in 2000, and he declined because of my homosexuality and the fact I'm half-Jewish. It came back: Go have a press conference denouncing your homosexuality and that you're converting to Jehovah. I was like: I guess we'll never hear from him again. And I had to kind of mourn him. It was devastating to think we've kind of lost him." - Wendy Melvoin, 2004.

I was hoping that this incident was just a rumor looks like it really did happen

It's a shame, isn't it? However, the fact that Wendy and Lisa played on Planet Earth only a couple of years later suggests that it was just a phase Prince was going through. A horrible, fanatical phase, sure, but I guess we all make mistakes.

SanMartin said:

SoulAlive said:

I was hoping that this incident was just a rumor looks like it really did happen

It's a shame, isn't it? However, the fact that Wendy and Lisa played on Planet Earth only a couple of years later suggests that it was just a phase Prince was going through. A horrible, fanatical phase, sure, but I guess we all make mistakes.

Mistakes? Would Prince have felt it was a mistake for one of his band members to become outspokenly racist?

SanMartin said:

savvy said:

Another singularly outstanding trolling effort. Coming to a Prince site and writing a seven paragraph diatribe on how "homophobic" Prince was. Nice.

We must've all imagined those comments he publically made in recent years.

DiscoBallz said:

SanMartin said:

It's a shame, isn't it? However, the fact that Wendy and Lisa played on Planet Earth only a couple of years later suggests that it was just a phase Prince was going through. A horrible, fanatical phase, sure, but I guess we all make mistakes.

Mistakes? Would Prince have felt it was a mistake for one of his band members to become outspokenly racist?

Fair point. In this particular case though, it seems the direct victims -Wendy and Lisa- were willing to forgive him. I'm bisexual myself, and I don't hold it against him either. That said, I would totally understand if someone else were turned off Prince entirely as a result of some of the comments he made back then.

As for the racism thing, I guess it depends. Had a bandmember become an outspoken racist, then seen the light and begged for forgiveness, what would Prince have done? No idea, to be honest!

h4rm0ny said:

h4rm0ny said:

Him performing Dance (Disco Heat) - a song intensely tied to gay history - seemed to be an intentional choice to show that he didn't care. (He was also the only living person at the time who could cover that song without messing it up.)

I'm... not really so quick to adopt that perspective. I just don't have any reason to believe that his motivation in covering a song would be for that specific purpose. It seemed, in my limited understanding, that he was a fan of good music from artists in general. Perhaps if there was more context to this performance such as it being during a time where he was being highly criticized regarding homophobia, and he remarked before or during the performance in some way that directly referenced such allegations. But a performance of a top 40 single that had another higher Billboard charting single as it's b-side... Doesn't in and of itself strike me as any sort of communication that he was indifferent towards non-heteronormative sexualities.

After hearing some of his comments over the last few years I just had to try and separate the man from the music. It was just disappointing that the man I grew up admiring for being very open minded seemed to become very close minded. I found his comments about Wendy & Lisa in 2000 quite shocking at the time. I used to wonder what Prince would think of his gay fans.

[Edited 5/31/16 5:00am]