suomynona said:

Some of us are here to talk about the music. So when there are literally 50 threads about the estate (use the custom google search bar in the right hand corner of every page on this website) -- it turns into the Prince ESTATE forum, instead of the reason that brought us all here in the first place. The music.

Folks have Google alerts set up for Prince. Therefore, whenever there is breaking news (or old news for that matter) -- folks come here and post it without bothering to look to see if it has already been posted.

Seriously -- do we really need more than one estate thread? Folks that want to freak out about what might or might not happen can post in that thread, rather than have 50 of them. Stickies are self explanatory. If there are going to be 1,000,000 threads about the upcoming god-awful BET awards, why not make a sticky so that everyone can go batshit crazy in that?

It's common sense. Any decent message board in the internet has seperate forums and stickies to keep things as organized as possible. It's why when you go to Yelp and search for your favorite restaurant -- the same exact location isn't listed 500 times.

right.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

2elijah said:

AnnaSantana said: How come? He was his lawyer back in the day.

Yet as Prince's lawyer for years, he neglected to make sure Prince had a will. And somehow, he now ends up with an important role in managing the entertainment assets of Prince's estate, even though he and Prince had parted ways, long before he died.

You can't force someone to make a will if they don't want one.

tmo1965 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Yet as Prince's lawyer for years, he neglected to make sure Prince had a will. And somehow, he now ends up with an important role in managing the entertainment assets of Prince's estate, even though he and Prince had parted ways, long before he died.

You can't force someone to make a will if they don't want one.

While that is quite true..."an attorney, manager, confidante and personal friend to the trailblazing artist for over a decade. After working with Prince to free him from his recording contract with Warner Bros, Mr. McMillan worked with Prince to mastermind numerous innovative and historic artist deals, including selling Prince’s album on tour and having Nielsen SoundScan register such sales to reach number one on the charts"...good and damn well SHOULD have been able to get his client and friend to do-- at the very least-- a sealed trust to ensure what Prince worked so motherfucking hard to obtain would NEVER, EVER be up for grabs like a free-for-all at some damn Flea Market.

The view from where I am is either Londell really sucked at his profession during his time with Prince or he really did not...and at the current moment I honestly think the latter is far worse! Either way, if I had any say so, he most certainly wouldn't have any further involvement where Prince's affairs are concerned and I mean just that!

[Edited 6/17/16 19:16pm]

Proof that there was a will, and what Tyka did with it.

suomynona said:

Proof that there was a will, and what Tyka did with it.

I do like you for the most part but yeah...

I ain't ever scared!

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

tmo1965 said:

You can't force someone to make a will if they don't want one.

While that is quite true..."an attorney, manager, confidante and personal friend to the trailblazing artist for over a decade. After working with Prince to free him from his recording contract with Warner Bros, Mr. McMillan worked with Prince to mastermind numerous innovative and historic artist deals, including selling Prince’s album on tour and having Nielsen SoundScan register such sales to reach number one on the charts"...good and damn well SHOULD have been able to get his client and friend to do-- at the very least-- a sealed trust to ensure what Prince worked so motherfucking hard to obtain would NEVER, EVER be up for grabs like a free-for-all at some damn Flea Market.

The view from where I am is either Londell really sucked at his profession during his time with Prince or he really did not...and at the current moment I honestly think the latter is far worse! Either way, if I had any say so, he most certainly wouldn't have any further involvement where Prince's affairs are concerned and I mean just that!

[Edited 6/17/16 19:16pm]

HH you are so right!!!

suomynona said:

Astasheiks said:

laurarichardson said:

Astasheiks said:

HH you are so right!!!

/-- Londell did say he tried to get Prince to do a will and he just did not want to talk about it. You cannot force someone to do a will or trust. This guy did get Prince out of the WB deal and was around enough to know how P's mind worked. I am not sure some of you understand someone needs to come in and make the estate make money to pay the taxes that are coming in January. If he had a will or trust the taxes still have to be paid. The Jackson estate had to sell off ATV catalog because of the taxes. Does anyone want to see Prince's music sold off in a auction to some private equity group that remixes his music to a house beat or puts it in a butt creame commercial. Give Londell a chance and let's see what he can do.

That won't be necessary.

The estate can make IRS payments over years (with interest and penalties, which are truly NOT significant due to today's low interest rates). There's no need to sell off everything just to settle with the IRS by January.

Prince would get behind on taxes....do a tour, and then pay up all at once. Same with foreclosure issues on that large lake property.

http://www.startribune.com/prince-pays-up-1-3m-in-taxes/94980354/

laytonian said:

laytonian said:

laurarichardson said:

Astasheiks said: /-- Londell did say he tried to get Prince to do a will and he just did not want to talk about it. You cannot force someone to do a will or trust. This guy did get Prince out of the WB deal and was around enough to know how P's mind worked. I am not sure some of you understand someone needs to come in and make the estate make money to pay the taxes that are coming in January. If he had a will or trust the taxes still have to be paid. The Jackson estate had to sell off ATV catalog because of the taxes. Does anyone want to see Prince's music sold off in a auction to some private equity group that remixes his music to a house beat or puts it in a butt creame commercial. Give Londell a chance and let's see what he can do.

That won't be necessary.

The estate can make IRS payments over years (with interest and penalties, which are truly NOT significant due to today's low interest rates). There's no need to sell off everything just to settle with the IRS by January.

Prince would get behind on taxes....do a tour, and then pay up all at once. Same with foreclosure issues on that large lake property.

http://www.startribune.com/prince-pays-up-1-3m-in-taxes/94980354/

You are right. He always held close what was important to him and used to pay cash later. Now they are doing the reverse thing since he is gone. Since nobody is looking they can do whatever they want with the money. I mean it's not their hard earned money.

laurarichardson said:

laurarichardson said:

[Edited 6/19/16 8:14am]

laurarichardson said:

mailaccount63 said:

the Estate can be divided up, ALL of the debts need to be paid - including the taxes.

.

So, one possible scenario:

.

WB comes in and lends the tax money (~ $150M based on ~ $300M value of estate) to the heirs on conditions of a sale to WB.

Heirs pay tax.

Heirs sell estate to WB for an undicslosed sum.

.

Of course you can read any bigger music biz instead of WB.

.

If the heirs do not stick together then alle the assets will be spread over the world en entropy will rise.

Releases (music), if any, will be less coherent this way than when a music business with a grasp of history surrounding P takes control of the estate.

mailaccount63 said:

Probate really isn't anything to be feared, like some people who try to sell trust schemes tell you (cough, cough).

The probate process can especially be a good thing if you think there might be claims against the Estate, and you want to make sure that the Estate is divided up according to law. (Prince may have known EXACTLY what he was doing.)

A "quick" description of the probate process:
https://www.legalzoom.com...mple-steps

(This is not legal advice.)

I have a question about trusts. If Prince set up trusts for people, would that come out in a probate hearing? Or does the probate court only deal with the assets remaining in Prince's estate. it's my understanding that once you transfer assets to a trust, you no longer own the property. If that is true, he may have set up trusts for people that we may never know about. Does anyone know if this is true?

mailaccount63 said:

Hi everyone -
The ground rules for the case are being laid with the Court.

Pleadings (legal documents that are filed with the court) have been submitted requesting that the Court ban: photography, video recording, audio recording, during these proceedings.

The different team members are being figured out.

To see what documents have been filed with the Court, see:

http://www.mncourts.gov/I...elson.aspx

Even though it doesn't seem like very much is currently ongoing, based on my experience, they are probably very busy drafting the Inventory (which is completely itemized). After the heirs have been determined, the next big pleading to be filed in tne Estate's case, will be the Inventory. And, as you can imagine, some things will be difficult to value. The Inventory is a very important document. The estate assets are valued at the date-of-death for the Inventory.

(This is not legal advice, and is not constituting a relationship with a client. This is for for informational purposes only. This is based on my current knowledge, information, belief, and experience. If you have any questions about your estate, please seek advice from your attorney.)

Is there a regustry where trusts are filed - so we could tell if Prince made provisions for anyone?

mailaccount63 said:

Now that things have calmed down -somewhat- we probably won't hear anything about the Estate on the weekends. Most law offices usually operate by "bankers' hours".

Reminder^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Officially, anyways. They are probably hard at work in the background, taking inventory, and drafting various documents.

BUT, Oh members of The Purple Army, please continue to keep your eyes and ears open! If you hear something that has NOT been posted on the appropriate thread, please post it and keep us informed. BUT no duplications, please. Also: PLEASE do not start a new thread unless you have a completely new topic! otherwise, it will probably just get locked. We need to keep our focus, oh members of The Purple Army! It's not over yet. We can't do anything to help Prince now, but we can continue to watch over his estate (which is a massive one).

[Edited 6/19/16 9:29am]

laytonian said:

laurarichardson said:

Astasheiks said: /-- Londell did say he tried to get Prince to do a will and he just did not want to talk about it. You cannot force someone to do a will or trust. This guy did get Prince out of the WB deal and was around enough to know how P's mind worked. I am not sure some of you understand someone needs to come in and make the estate make money to pay the taxes that are coming in January. If he had a will or trust the taxes still have to be paid. The Jackson estate had to sell off ATV catalog because of the taxes. Does anyone want to see Prince's music sold off in a auction to some private equity group that remixes his music to a house beat or puts it in a butt creame commercial. Give Londell a chance and let's see what he can do.

That won't be necessary.

The estate can make IRS payments over years (with interest and penalties, which are truly NOT significant due to today's low interest rates). There's no need to sell off everything just to settle with the IRS by January.

Prince would get behind on taxes....do a tour, and then pay up all at once. Same with foreclosure issues on that large lake property.

http://www.startribune.com/prince-pays-up-1-3m-in-taxes/94980354/

The attorneys for the Estate will do everything they possibly can to keep expenses low. And... just because they sell off a few things, it doesn't mean they are going to sell off everything.

mailaccount63 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Yet as Prince's lawyer for years, he neglected to make sure Prince had a will. And somehow, he now ends up with an important role in managing the entertainment assets of Prince's estate, even though he and Prince had parted ways, long before he died.

This is also too much of a coincidence for me. No, you can't force someone to do a will, but it is still too much of a coincidence for me. If Prince couldn't be talked into doing a will, he sure couldn't have been talked into doing a trust, which is usually a lot more complicated. Besides, most estate-planning attorneys also have their clients sign wills if they are going to execute a trust.

After thinking this situation over: If Londell is good enough for the Judge - he is good enough for me.

Lizzypoo said:

mailaccount63 said:

Probate really isn't anything to be feared, like some people who try to sell trust schemes tell you (cough, cough).

The probate process can especially be a good thing if you think there might be claims against the Estate, and you want to make sure that the Estate is divided up according to law. (Prince may have known EXACTLY what he was doing.)

A "quick" description of the probate process:
https://www.legalzoom.com...mple-steps

(This is not legal advice.)

I have a question about trusts. If Prince set up trusts for people, would that come out in a probate hearing? Or does the probate court only deal with the assets remaining in Prince's estate. it's my understanding that once you transfer assets to a trust, you no longer own the property. If that is true, he may have set up trusts for people that we may never know about. Does anyone know if this is true?

No, Trusts are not part of the probate estate. For example, life insurance policies, real estate in joint names, and financial accounts in joint names (to name a few) are also not part of the probate process. Trusts are often drafted to keep assets out of the probate process, and for other reasons. You have heard about "Trust Fund Babies" right?

Lizzypoo said:

mailaccount63 said:

Probate really isn't anything to be feared, like some people who try to sell trust schemes tell you (cough, cough).

The probate process can especially be a good thing if you think there might be claims against the Estate, and you want to make sure that the Estate is divided up according to law. (Prince may have known EXACTLY what he was doing.)

A "quick" description of the probate process:
https://www.legalzoom.com...mple-steps

(This is not legal advice.)

I have a question about trusts. If Prince set up trusts for people, would that come out in a probate hearing? Or does the probate court only deal with the assets remaining in Prince's estate. it's my understanding that once you transfer assets to a trust, you no longer own the property. If that is true, he may have set up trusts for people that we may never know about. Does anyone know if this is true?

Note: This answer is for general informational purposes only. This is not legal advice, and does not constitute a client relationship. This is based on my current knowledge, information, belief, and experience. If you have any questions about your estate, please seek the advise of an attorney.

Your "estate" is everything that you own, down to your toothbrush.

Theoretically, "if Prince set up trusts for people", no, that would not come out in a probate hearing - UNLESS there was some problem with the trust(s). Probate is public - trusts are private. BUT if there is some problem with the trust(s), ANY dinky little problem that someone is willing to spend the money to file a complaint about, the place for complaints about how the trust(s) are being administered would be Probate Court. Even though the transactions in a trust are private (as long as there is NO litigation/complaints), there are usually some rumors "well, a trust was set up....". But from what I understand and am reading, I have not heard anything from anybody (including no rumors) about any trusts. Tyka keeps saying that Prince did not have an estate plan - so I interpret that to mean that he did not have any trusts set up either.

Theoretically, a trust can also be set up within a will, like for example, for minor children, which is the ideal use - in my opinion. If a trust is set up within a will, then it is overseen by the Court, and so therefore theoretically would be public knowledge. This is not applicable in this case.

If a trust is set up independently from a will, and there is no litigation filed regarding that trust, then the trust remains private.

For illustration purposes, let's pretend all of your assets are a pile of apples. Also, pretend that we have two baskets. For now, all of your apples/assets are in one basket. That is how the great majority of people operate. The first basket is your probatable estate. Now let's pretend you set up a trust - the second basket is your trust. We transfer all of your apples into the second basket. Technically, you no longer "own"/have your apples/assets in the first basket/your probatable estate. Your apples/assets are now in the second basket and are "owned" by the Trust. But, you can still choose what you do with your assets/apples. You just have them in a different basket.

Don't be misled: Trusts can be very complicated (thus expensive) to set up and administer correctly.

Probate Court would only deal with the assets that remain as probatable assets in Prince's estate (the first basket), since he had no Will. As I have said previously, that most estate-planning attorneys today have their clients also sign wills if the clients do a trust. A will takes care of any leftover assets that did not get transferred into a trust (not all of the apples get transferred from the first basket into the second basket). Of all of the hundreds and hundreds of estate cases that I have administered, I, personally, have never seen an estate where ALL of the assets/apples were transferred into the trust/second basket. There is usually always one or two leftover assets/apples that do not get transferred from the probate estate/first basket into the trust/second basket. (It is usually because an asset is "forgotten" by a client.) So a probate case needs to also be officially opened with the court to deal with the leftover assets/apples. It only takes one asset/apple that needs retitled for the need of a probate case to be set up. I have not heard any whispers/rumors of any trusts for Prince's estate.

I apologize for the length of my answer, but I hope I have taken some of the mystery out of this situation.

[Edited 6/25/16 13:40pm]

Lizzypoo said:

Is there a regustry where trusts are filed - so we could tell if Prince made provisions for anyone?

No. Although trusts have to register with the IRS to get Tax ID numbers, the IRS isn't talking. The IRS considers this information private. So... no.

(This is not legal advice.)

[Edited 6/19/16 11:35am]

Londell used to read the Org, I'm guessing he will check in with the Org now. The Dear Londell thread is locked now but when it does show up here, I highly suggest that we all tweet this thread link to his twitter account @LondellMcMillan

mailaccount63 said:

If Prince couldn't be talked into doing a will, he sure couldn't have been talked into doing a trust, which is usually a lot more complicated.

Not so. It's easy to talk someone into a trust when you explain to them how much it will save them in estate taxes. Prince was ridiculous, but do you think he would choose a 100 million dollar tax bill or a ZERO dollar tax bill? Even Prince is realistic enough to see which one is superior.

laytonian said:

The estate can make IRS payments over years (with interest and penalties, which are truly NOT significant due to today's low interest rates). There's no need to sell off everything just to settle with the IRS by January.

Yes, even the court has acknowledged this.

For me these were the most interesting findings of the "industry experts" order:

................

12. The Court agrees that the Estate must work expeditiously and diligently toward being able to meet the tax obligations of the Estate. The Court recognizes that the Estate will likely not be able to pay the entire tax obligation when it becomes due and some interest and, perhaps, some penalties, are likely before the entire tax obligation is paid. As stated by all counsel who spoke at the hearing, the looming tax obligation is certainly a consideration but it should not push the parties, the Special Administrator and the Court into acting in a manner that is not legally sound, is not prudent, and is not in the best interest of the heir(s).

17. It is the Court’s understanding that the Special Administrator and the identified “industry experts” may find it necessary, and in the best interest of the Estate, to enter into longer term contacts regarding, among other things, licensing and publishing of intellectual property and the management of tangible property including Paisley Park.

18. The Special Administrator has not been granted, and the Court will not grant at this time, the authority to enter into contractual relationships that will extend beyond the term of the Special Administration. To do so would usurp the control of the Estate by the heir(s) and the Court.

laurarichardson said:

Astasheiks said:

HH you are so right!!!

/-- Londell did say he tried to get Prince to do a will and he just did not want to talk about it. You cannot force someone to do a will or trust. This guy did get Prince out of the WB deal and was around enough to know how P's mind worked. I am not sure some of you understand someone needs to come in and make the estate make money to pay the taxes that are coming in January. If he had a will or trust the taxes still have to be paid. The Jackson estate had to sell off ATV catalog because of the taxes. Does anyone want to see Prince's music sold off in a auction to some private equity group that remixes his music to a house beat or puts it in a butt creame commercial. Give Londell a chance and let's see what he can do.

This^^^^^

Fans don't want to know how the sausage is made. Londell will be perfect for this role.....

By the moderators' logic all official Prince projects after 4/21/2016 are "The Estate", since he's not here any more and it's the judgement of some administrators & collaborators driving what comes out (songs, live albums, remixes, holograms, whatever) and what doesn't.

You could subsume the entire Vault sticky under the "Estate" and have the unwieldiest thing ever, since really anything we'd find out about the Vault is through the workings of the estate.

EDIT: I guess I'm asking how broad this sticky is.

[Edited 6/20/16 11:13am]