I don't blame Larry (Seems like a lovely guy)... but it's what organised religion does.

It seems clear Prince needed something to hang on to after Mayte and the death of their child, and rather than drink and drugs he went the other way... maybe too far the other way!?

Junglehop said:

Aerogram said:

I can't help it, my guts tell me your post is over hysterically judgmental since it lays almost criminal blame at an individual when you are just going by your "guts". Prince chose his faith the same way he chose everything in his life: he did what he wanted to do, listened to whom he wanted to listen to. He was not only a grown up man, he was master of his domain, a legend, an icon, and very stubborn.

Yes, because no stubborn, grown up man, legend, icon, master of his domain has EVER in the history of time, chosen the wrong path, listened to the wrong people, nor did something that would ultimately cost them everything because they wanted to.

Oh just perish the thought.

Blaming Larry Graham for Prince choosing to become a Jehovah Witness is insulting to Prince as a man. It makes it seem like Prince could not make life decisions for himself and needed someone to hold his hand for him. Prince found a place of worship (Kingdom Hall) and Jehovah Witness as a faith that he chose for his life. Regardless of whether folks like or dislike the religion, Larry mentored Prince like an older brother, shared how his life was with Prince before being baptized in the religion and how it give his life structure. Also, Prince genuinely found happiness recording with Larry Graham and jamming with him at Paisley Park and on the road with Chaka Khan up until the gig they did together with 3RDEYEGIRL. Lastly, Prince was a creative genius that worked 24/7 with many different creative pursuits that will take a toll on your body-writing and recording songs, rehearsing and recording with different bands concurrently, playing Hit And Run style concerts and working on an autobiography. It may have been too much to take on at 57. Prince's commitment to a faith that demands humility and patience is a testament to Prince and Larry did his job as a church elder. Just leave it at that.

Aerogram said:

I can't help it, my guts tell me your post is over hysterically judgmental since it lays almost criminal blame at an individual when you are just going by your "guts". Prince chose his faith the same way he chose everything in his life: he did what he wanted to do, listened to whom he wanted to listen to. He was not only a grown up man, he was master of his domain, a legend, an icon, and very stubborn.

Larry is too nice and good man 4 speculate about him affecting Prince life in a bad way. I personally aways had a problem 2 deal with the fact how JW's represent the biggest mess up in theology and practice in whole christinity, and i think i'll never get over it. But, Prince had that spirit 2 draw out the best even from JW community... so that give me solace what a genius he was. Btw, i somehow always saw Prince in some more traditionaly rooted and thelogicaly reliable communites like eastern christianity or something like that.

[Edited 5/16/16 7:45am]

2elijah said:

I don't get how anyone could blame Larry for Prince's adult decision to become a JW. As many times as fans have heard stories that Prince controlled all that he did, why would they think Larry had some special powers to force him into becoming a JW? It has been rumored that it was George Benson that Prince had a discussion about the JW faith, long before those discussions took place with Larry. Besides Prince's mother was a JW, and I read several times from folks on this site over the years that before she passed, she wanted him to become a JW.

I hope most of these Christain ministers are wrong for Prince's mama sake and maybe Prince too. The majority say JWs don't make it upstairs for their wrong scripture twisting and going against what Jesus actually preached.

Junglehop said:

I can't help it, my gut tells me Larry Graham wasn't a positive influence on Prince's life. I feel he exploited vulnerabilities in Prince, and acting as a defacto father figure of sorts, he manipulated and smothered him, ultimately robbing Prince of his own personal power. I can't help feeling Larry led Prince down a path toward self destruction. Ultimately Prince was responsible for his own life but Larry poisoned the well so to speak. [Edited 5/16/16 3:33am]

I'm with you Junglehop, my gut tells me if P could come back he would whoop Larry's arse!

Junglehop said:

I can't help it, my gut tells me Larry Graham wasn't a positive influence on Prince's life. I feel he exploited vulnerabilities in Prince, and acting as a defacto father figure of sorts, he manipulated and smothered him, ultimately robbing Prince of his own personal power. I can't help feeling Larry led Prince down a path toward self destruction. Ultimately Prince was responsible for his own life but Larry poisoned the well so to speak. [Edited 5/16/16 3:33am]

[img:$uid]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/delivertheword/signs/panties_zpsdq0thx8o.jpg[/img:$uid]

My personal opinion is that Larry filled a "father"-type void in Prince as well.

So here's this older, well-intentioned gentleman, who is a highly-respected bassist for one of Prince's favorite bands (Sly & The Family Stone). Even if Prince never converted to JW, he could've easily been in a mindset to welcome this person into his life.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Aerogram said:

I can't help it, my guts tell me your post is over hysterically judgmental since it lays almost criminal blame at an individual when you are just going by your "guts". Prince chose his faith the same way he chose everything in his life: he did what he wanted to do, listened to whom he wanted to listen to. He was not only a grown up man, he was master of his domain, a legend, an icon, and very stubborn.

Yes, because no stubborn, grown up man, legend, icon, master of his domain has EVER in the history of time, chosen the wrong path, listened to the wrong people, nor did something that would ultimately cost them everything because they wanted to.

Oh just perish the thought.

I hear ya HatrinaH!

[Edited 5/16/16 10:42am]

Larry did not poison anything. If anything I feel he was a true and valued friend for Prince. I have met Larry and he is one of the kindest and sweetest people I have ever met! He signed my checkbook "Ur one in a million" at Paisley Park Celebration "Rainbow Children" in 2001. I am greatful Prince had a true friend in him in his life. He needed that. Always with a smile on his face. He has a positive energy and light. I am so greatful Prince had a brother/father figure of sorts.

[Edited 5/16/16 10:51am]

[Edited 5/16/16 10:52am]

[Edited 5/16/16 10:53am]

Video: New Larry Graham Interview

Junglehop said:

I can't help it, my gut tells me Larry Graham wasn't a positive influence on Prince's life. I feel he exploited vulnerabilities in Prince, and acting as a defacto father figure of sorts, he manipulated and smothered him, ultimately robbing Prince of his own personal power. I can't help feeling Larry led Prince down a path toward self destruction. Ultimately Prince was responsible for his own life but Larry poisoned the well so to speak. [Edited 5/16/16 3:33am]

I have always felt like that about Larry. One fan put it like that:"He kidnapped our sexy Prince and turned him into a tamed sheep". I could not agree more. Larry´s career had been over before he met Prince. He somehow kdnapped him while he was the most vulnerable after that Baby/Mayte mess.

Identity said:

Video: New Larry Graham Interview

Thanks.

While I wasn't a fan of the influence that being a Jehovah's Witness had on his music, I don't think he was under the control of some kinda cultist Svengali.

Astasheiks said:

I'm tired of seeing negativity about Larry. Prince made the choice to be a Jehovah Witness of HIS OWN FREE WILL. Larry is a very righteous spirtual individual who holds no malice against anybody

Junglehop said:

organised religion is the ultimate issue here. It controls, it manifests in ways others cant understand or relate to, and soon a person can be completely overun and blindsided by a belief - and if those surrounding you are also engaged, it becomes almost impossible to see outside of this (or break free). Prince always had a spiritiual demeanour, but that never meant he had to suppress anything or restrict expression - then his faith got the better of him and he shunned large chunks of his past as this belief no longer supported or embraced it - sad. e.g. Erotic City being pulled from the ultimate Prince release - from what i understand this decision was all about his belief not supporting this move - bizarre!

koolwater said:

Astasheiks said:

I hope most of these Christain ministers are wrong for Prince's mama sake and maybe Prince too. The majority say JWs don't make it upstairs for their wrong scripture twisting and going against what Jesus actually preached.

Everything you just said is wrong witnesses don't twist the scriptures if anything they stick to it. interesting the scripture says do not use God's name in vain ( or in a worthless way) your very username has jah in it which of course is a short abbreviated version of Jehovah. but you probably knew that already and choose to ignore it

You they certainly do twist the scriptures. Thats why they have their own Bible, thats why they don't take blood transfusions, they think Jesus was just a man, Michael the archangel sent to earth, they don't believe in the trinity, they think only they sect will be saved, etc. etc. Do some research!

"Question: "Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible?"

Answer: The New World Translation (NWT) is defined by the Jehovah's Witnesses’ parent organization (the Watchtower Society) as "a translation of the Holy Scriptures made directly from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek into modern-day English by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah." The NWT is the anonymous work of the “New World Bible Translation Committee.” Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that the anonymity is in place so that the credit for the work will go to God. Of course, this has the added benefit of keeping the translators from any accountability for their errors and prevents real scholars from checking their academic credentials.

The New World Translation is unique in one thing – it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group's doctrine. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that, as new editions of the New World Translation were published, additional changes were made to the biblical text. As biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed. Here are some of the more prominent examples of intentional revisions:

The New World Translation renders the Greek term word staurós ("cross") as "torture stake" because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe that Jesus was crucified on a cross. The New World Translation does not translate the words sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus as "hell” because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in hell. The NWT gives the translation "presence" instead of “coming” for the Greek word parousia because Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ has already returned in the early 1900s. In Colossians 1:16, the NWT inserts the word “other” despite its being completely absent from the original Greek text. It does this to give the view that “all other things” were created by Christ, instead of what the text says, “all things were created by Christ.” This is to go along with their belief that Christ is a created being, which they believe because they deny the Trinity.

The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is John 1:1. The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.” This is not a matter of correct translation, but of reading one's preconceived theology into the text, rather than allowing the text to speak for itself. There is no indefinite article in Greek (in English, "a" or "an"), so any use of an indefinite article in English must be added by the translator. This is grammatically acceptable, so long as it does not change the meaning of the text.

There is a good reason why theos has no definite article in John 1:1 and why the New World Translation rendering is in error. There are three general rules we need to understand to see why.

1. In Greek, word order does not determine word usage like it does in English. In English, a sentence is structured according to word order: Subject - Verb - Object. Thus, "Harry called the dog" is not equivalent to "the dog called Harry." But in Greek, a word's function is determined by the case ending found attached to the word's root. There are two case endings for the root theo: one is -s (theos), the other is -n (theon). The -s ending normally identifies a noun as being the subject of a sentence, while the -n ending normally identifies a noun as the direct object.

2. When a noun functions as a predicate nominative (in English, a noun that follows a being verb such as "is"), its case ending must match the noun's case that it renames, so that the reader will know which noun it is defining. Therefore, theo must take the -s ending because it is renaming logos. Therefore, John 1:1 transliterates to "kai theos en ho logos." Is theos the subject, or is logos? Both have the -s ending. The answer is found in the next rule.

3. In cases where two nouns appear, and both take the same case ending, the author will often add the definite article to the word that is the subject in order to avoid confusion. John put the definite article on logos (“the Word”) instead of on theos. So, logos is the subject, and theos is the predicate nominative. In English, this results in John 1:1 being read as "and the Word was God" (instead of "and God was the word").

The most revealing evidence of the Watchtower's bias is their inconsistent translation technique. Throughout the Gospel of John, the Greek word theon occurs without a definite article. The New World Translation renders none of these as “a god.” Just three verses after John 1:1, the New World Translation translates another case of theos without the indefinite article as "God." Even more inconsistent, in John 1:18, the NWT translates the same term as both "God" and "god" in the very same sentence.

The Watchtower, therefore, has no hard textual grounds for their translation—only their own theological bias. While New World Translation defenders might succeed in showing that John 1:1 can be translated as they have done, they cannot show that it is the proper translation. Nor can they explain the fact that that the NWT does not translate the same Greek phrases elsewhere in the Gospel of John the same way. It is only the pre-conceived heretical rejection of the deity of Christ that forces the Watchtower Society to inconsistently translate the Greek text, thus allowing their error to gain some semblance of legitimacy in the minds of those ignorant of the facts.

It is only the Watchtower's pre-conceived heretical beliefs that are behind the dishonest and inconsistent translation that is the New World Translation. The New World Translation is most definitely not a valid version of God’s Word. There are minor differences among all the major English translations of the Bible. No English translation is perfect. However, while other Bible translators make minor mistakes in the rendering of the Hebrew and Greek text into English, the NWT intentionally changes the rendering of the text to conform to Jehovah’s Witness theology. The New World Translation is a perversion, not a version, of the Bible."!!!!!!

Recommended Resources: Reasoning from the Script...Ron Rhodes.

http://www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html

[Edited 5/17/16 8:03am]

Astasheiks said:

koolwater said:

Astasheiks said: Everything you just said is wrong witnesses don't twist the scriptures if anything they stick to it. interesting the scripture says do not use God's name in vain ( or in a worthless way) your very username has jah in it which of course is a short abbreviated version of Jehovah. but you probably knew that already and choose to ignore it

You they certainly do twist the scriptures. Thats why they have their own Bible, thats why they don't take blood transfusions, they think Jesus was just a man, Michael the archangel sent to earth, they don't believe in the trinity, they think only they sect will be saved, etc. etc. Do some research!

"Question: "Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible?"

Answer: The New World Translation (NWT) is defined by the Jehovah's Witnesses’ parent organization (the Watchtower Society) as "a translation of the Holy Scriptures made directly from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek into modern-day English by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah." The NWT is the anonymous work of the “New World Bible Translation Committee.” Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that the anonymity is in place so that the credit for the work will go to God. Of course, this has the added benefit of keeping the translators from any accountability for their errors and prevents real scholars from checking their academic credentials.

The New World Translation is unique in one thing – it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group's doctrine. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that, as new editions of the New World Translation were published, additional changes were made to the biblical text. As biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed. Here are some of the more prominent examples of intentional revisions:

The New World Translation renders the Greek term word staurós ("cross") as "torture stake" because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe that Jesus was crucified on a cross. The New World Translation does not translate the words sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus as "hell” because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in hell. The NWT gives the translation "presence" instead of “coming” for the Greek word parousia because Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ has already returned in the early 1900s. In Colossians 1:16, the NWT inserts the word “other” despite its being completely absent from the original Greek text. It does this to give the view that “all other things” were created by Christ, instead of what the text says, “all things were created by Christ.” This is to go along with their belief that Christ is a created being, which they believe because they deny the Trinity.

The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is John 1:1. The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.” This is not a matter of correct translation, but of reading one's preconceived theology into the text, rather than allowing the text to speak for itself. There is no indefinite article in Greek (in English, "a" or "an"), so any use of an indefinite article in English must be added by the translator. This is grammatically acceptable, so long as it does not change the meaning of the text.

There is a good reason why theos has no definite article in John 1:1 and why the New World Translation rendering is in error. There are three general rules we need to understand to see why.

1. In Greek, word order does not determine word usage like it does in English. In English, a sentence is structured according to word order: Subject - Verb - Object. Thus, "Harry called the dog" is not equivalent to "the dog called Harry." But in Greek, a word's function is determined by the case ending found attached to the word's root. There are two case endings for the root theo: one is -s (theos), the other is -n (theon). The -s ending normally identifies a noun as being the subject of a sentence, while the -n ending normally identifies a noun as the direct object.

2. When a noun functions as a predicate nominative (in English, a noun that follows a being verb such as "is"), its case ending must match the noun's case that it renames, so that the reader will know which noun it is defining. Therefore, theo must take the -s ending because it is renaming logos. Therefore, John 1:1 transliterates to "kai theos en ho logos." Is theos the subject, or is logos? Both have the -s ending. The answer is found in the next rule.

3. In cases where two nouns appear, and both take the same case ending, the author will often add the definite article to the word that is the subject in order to avoid confusion. John put the definite article on logos (“the Word”) instead of on theos. So, logos is the subject, and theos is the predicate nominative. In English, this results in John 1:1 being read as "and the Word was God" (instead of "and God was the word").

The most revealing evidence of the Watchtower's bias is their inconsistent translation technique. Throughout the Gospel of John, the Greek word theon occurs without a definite article. The New World Translation renders none of these as “a god.” Just three verses after John 1:1, the New World Translation translates another case of theos without the indefinite article as "God." Even more inconsistent, in John 1:18, the NWT translates the same term as both "God" and "god" in the very same sentence.

The Watchtower, therefore, has no hard textual grounds for their translation—only their own theological bias. While New World Translation defenders might succeed in showing that John 1:1 can be translated as they have done, they cannot show that it is the proper translation. Nor can they explain the fact that that the NWT does not translate the same Greek phrases elsewhere in the Gospel of John the same way. It is only the pre-conceived heretical rejection of the deity of Christ that forces the Watchtower Society to inconsistently translate the Greek text, thus allowing their error to gain some semblance of legitimacy in the minds of those ignorant of the facts.

It is only the Watchtower's pre-conceived heretical beliefs that are behind the dishonest and inconsistent translation that is the New World Translation. The New World Translation is most definitely not a valid version of God’s Word. There are minor differences among all the major English translations of the Bible. No English translation is perfect. However, while other Bible translators make minor mistakes in the rendering of the Hebrew and Greek text into English, the NWT intentionally changes the rendering of the text to conform to Jehovah’s Witness theology. The New World Translation is a perversion, not a version, of the Bible."!!!!!!

Recommended Resources: Reasoning from the Script...Ron Rhodes.

http://www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html

[Edited 5/17/16 8:03am]

A few years back I stumbled across this woman's TV broadcasts, and quite a few of them analyze The Bible directly, translating from Greek to English on the fly. I believe that she also acknowledged slight variations in the translation.

http://www.pastormelissascott.com

I have no experience whatsoever in the JW bible, and don't plan to.