CROWNS1 said:

rogifan said:

laytonian said:

....and that's why I wonder the most: WHERE WAS LARRY AT THE END? If people were that worried about P, why didn't they drop a dime on Big Brother and tell him to get his butt over to PP just for one night?

The two people, closest to P for several years, were Kirk and Larry. P depended on them but they weren't there when he really needed it.

They should have known.

[Edited 6/29/16 8:29am]

It really burns me up that people make assumptions without knowing all the facts. Why do we assume these people weren't there when he needed them? Again none of us are part of his inner circle, we know next to nothing. Most of what's been reported isn't fact it's rumor. The medical examiners report labeled it an accidental overdose. Why can't people accept it was a tragic accident that wasn't anyone's fault?

We know ONE fact for sure: a man with a "grave condition" was dropped off alone just a few hours before a doctor (racing cross-country to save that life) would show up.
A "grave condition" truly does mean "near death". That's why it's "grave". At this point, a life-threatening addiction was in place and that's not a situation where the patient is thinking clearly.

Judgmental? Yup. If we don't judge, we make grave errors.

laytonian said:

Bunsterdk said:

laytonian said:

We know ONE fact for sure: a man with a "grave condition" was dropped off alone just a few hours before a doctor (racing cross-country to save that life) would show up.
A "grave condition" truly does mean "near death". That's why it's "grave". At this point, a life-threatening addiction was in place and that's not a situation where the patient is thinking clearly.

Judgmental? Yup. If we don't judge, we make grave errors.

Do we know that? We know what the attorney of the person who flew out from California wants us to believe. And it was not a doctor. The actual doctor could not clear his schedule which makes me think they did not really consider it so urgent, but that's me guessing. Also it appears that the person who came to Minnesota did not go to PP straight from the airport, but rather went to his hotel first. Again not really something that screams medical emergency to me. If he had not decided to take that Fentanyl, he would still be alive the next day when everyone arrived. That's the bottomline. It was his decision. Blame him if you must blame anyone, but even that doesn't make sense unless you believe it's deliberate. I don't. He fought hard to stay alive the week before on the plane. It was an accident. Accidents happen unfortunately. We can learn from them, but blaming individuals like it's done here is not about learning, it's about hating. Hating gets us nowhere fast.

I'm not hating.
We all know that it was the doctor's son...working under direction of the doctor. Yes, he should have met someone immediately at PP to get let in (and it's been obvious for awhile that Dr S **was** the doctor that was going to administer the drug because no other doctor showed up).

Prince's "representative" met Kornfield's son at the airport and took him to a hotel, rather than directly to PP.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/04/health/prince-addiction-doctor-kornfeld/

It was a "lifesaving mission" that could wait a few hours? So many balls were dropped. Even Andrew Kornfield stated so.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/03/opinions/man-who-found-prince-kornfeld/

.

[Edited 6/29/16 10:25am]

[Edited 6/29/16 10:27am]

I find it odd that on one hand peeps will accuse certain parties of sycophant type behavior and then turn around and say those same people didn't want to see Prince live. Does that make any sense? I mean, even for a second? If you were using someone for X advantage, that all goes away the second the accommodating party dies.

Anyway, at least we got Septimo ! Personally, I heard Prince yearn and long and search for God his entire career. It's not odd to see a person like that eventually find and choose a path. I don't have to agree with said choice, but it's hardly surprising.

Bunsterdk said:

CROWNS1 said:

laytonian said:

rogifan said:

CROWNS1 said:

Who else would people look at? P's wife pretty much put him on blast about it and then went on to say stuff about 'yes men' and 'enablers'. So I take it as a given that when he was married to his second wife, it was going on. Who has been there during the entire time?

I think it was a tragic accident and no one is to blame. But if some people really feel the need to blame someone then there's only one person and that's Prince Rogers Nelson.

Yes the responsiblility does lie squarely with PRN. However, if during the course of the investigation it is found that someone else was involved in acquiring drugs illegally, then they should be held responsible. They may not be the cause of PRN's problems but it would take a low POS to aid someone in something that had the potential to cause death and to do it out of fear of losing their position/job.

rogifan said:

laytonian said:

I'm not hating.
We all know that it was the doctor's son...working under direction of the doctor. Yes, he should have met someone immediately at PP to get let in (and it's been obvious for awhile that Dr S **was** the doctor that was going to administer the drug because no other doctor showed up).

Prince's "representative" met Kornfield's son at the airport and took him to a hotel, rather than directly to PP.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/04/health/prince-addiction-doctor-kornfeld/

It was a "lifesaving mission" that could wait a few hours? So many balls were dropped. Even Andrew Kornfield stated so.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/03/opinions/man-who-found-prince-kornfeld/

.

[Edited 6/29/16 10:25am]

[Edited 6/29/16 10:27am]

Again who knows what to believe. Why do we take everything this doctor person says as gospel truth. Perhaps he's making things seem more dire than they were? I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing if P was in imminent danger that night that someone would have dropped him off at home and said see you tomorrow. Also, two days before P died he took in a show at the Dakota Jazz Club. An employee who saw him there said he looked fine. I remember reading somewhere else that Hanna Welton and her husband Josh were with him, not sure if others were too. http://www.people.com/art...oyee-death So there was a medical emergency and Prince was in grave danger yet he was able to attend a show at a club just 2 days before his death? I'm sorry something does not compute here. Which is why I go back to this being nothing more than a very tragic accident where no one is to blame.

It was an accidental death from a purposeful application of Fentanyl (as stated on the death certificate). An intentional death would have been an obviously-higher dose. A sheer accident is when a rock falls down a mountain and hits your house, without you causing the rock to move.

BUT...we know at least one person close to P has a criminal defense attorney.

Just wait.

.

So are folks done crucifying Larry and now have moved on to rehasing Prince's demise yet again with the same lack of information we already had?

Alrighty then....

Oh Larry

kpowers said:

Oh Larry

Oh, Laaaray, oh, oh, oh, oh Laaaaraaaay!

babynoz said:

kpowers said:

Oh Larry

Oh, Laaaray, oh, oh, oh, oh Laaaaraaaay!

ROTFL! Now I got the song Oh Sherry by Steve Perry in my head!

PliablyPurple said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Amen.

I rue the day Prince met Larry.

He is a predator. And so is Larry's wife. She probably was also on the payroll.

The past few years I believe Prince was moving away from JW. Actually, he should have been "thrown out" of the JW congregation. He was doing many things JW do not believe in. However, I am sure he was heavily contributing to JW and they didnt want to lose their money cow.

I need a Prince intervention. Just Saying....

AMEN!!!

laytonian said:

ACharmed1 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Amen.

I rue the day Prince met Larry.

He is a predator. And so is Larry's wife. She probably was also on the payroll.

The past few years I believe Prince was moving away from JW. Actually, he should have been "thrown out" of the JW congregation. He was doing many things JW do not believe in. However, I am sure he was heavily contributing to JW and they didnt want to lose their money cow.

I need a Prince intervention. Just Saying....

I agree with U on all that. Larry's wife...that goofy crap she pulled on stage at the Motherless Child show was just pathetic. Stumbling around the stage with a friggin' towel like she just got off a weekend bender with Ozzy & Hunter S Thompson.

They both should have been banned from PP!

CROWNS1 said:

rusty1 said:

Junglehop said:

I can't help it, my gut tells me Larry Graham wasn't a positive influence on Prince's life. I feel he exploited vulnerabilities in Prince, and acting as a defacto father figure of sorts, he manipulated and smothered him, ultimately robbing Prince of his own personal power. I can't help feeling Larry led Prince down a path toward self destruction. Ultimately Prince was responsible for his own life but Larry poisoned the well so to speak. [Edited 5/16/16 3:33am]

100% agree I can't even watch larry on stage with him. He got to Prince a little after his baby died. [Edited 6/29/16 1:32am]

Yes, Lawd!

schbobby said:

rusty1 said:

Whether it is Scientology or being JW.. I find there are just to many wacky things going on with both of them. It feels like they are cult groups.. You can't curse, Celebrate holidays, No blood transfusions.. To me, i tbink it is all crazy & backwards logic. I'm a Catholic & my religion doesn't have so many weird rules And so on. Prince was depressed and turned to a cult

I won't judge anyone who chooses Scientology or JW . After all, my own religion is based on a 16 year old girl who got knocked up (but didn't know it until an angel told her), was followed out of town by her incredibly understanding boyfriend, Joseph, had a baby out of wedlock - IN A BARN! - a baby who grew up 30 years later to preach all over the place. Three years later, they murdered him...and he CAME BACK TO LIFE! 40 days after that? He floated up to heaven.

Even though you say "my own religion", sounds like you are making a mockery of it!

Joseph was not a boyfriend but a husband according to The Bible...

babynoz said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

Didn't Prince's mother, a Jehovah's Witness, request, on her dying bed, that he also become a Jehovah's Witness?

No, that appears to be just another piece of org mythology. I hope that somebody will put accurate information about that in the Q&A section so that you guys won't keep getting misled.

Prince's mother was not a JW. A witness who used to post on this site regularly confirmed that several years ago. Unforturnately I can't remember if it was Sensual Melody or Uhope, but I hope that people will stop spewing that misinformation as fact. According to biographers P's family was Seventh Day Adventist when he was growing up.

Prince's mom's funeral was held at Zion Baptist Church.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/twincities/obituary.aspx?pid=231608



Another piece of misinformation....George Benson is actually the person who first spoke to Prince about the JW faith but in their infinite stupidity people on the org continue to blame Larry Graham.

Babynoz, I'm so glad you posted this info. It so widespread people saying she was JW and that was her dying wish. They had me believeing it! For a JW would not be having a funeral at Zion Baptist Church, well...

Furthermore, I did she move her membership to Zion Baptist Church?

[Edited 6/29/16 13:26pm]

Astasheiks said:

You they certainly do twist the scriptures. Thats why they have their own Bible, thats why they don't take blood transfusions, they think Jesus was just a man, Michael the archangel sent to earth, they don't believe in the trinity, they think only they sect will be saved, etc. etc. Do some research!

"Question: "Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible?"

Answer: The New World Translation (NWT) is defined by the Jehovah's Witnesses’ parent organization (the Watchtower Society) as "a translation of the Holy Scriptures made directly from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek into modern-day English by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah." The NWT is the anonymous work of the “New World Bible Translation Committee.” Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that the anonymity is in place so that the credit for the work will go to God. Of course, this has the added benefit of keeping the translators from any accountability for their errors and prevents real scholars from checking their academic credentials.

The New World Translation is unique in one thing – it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group's doctrine. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that, as new editions of the New World Translation were published, additional changes were made to the biblical text. As biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed. Here are some of the more prominent examples of intentional revisions:

The New World Translation renders the Greek term word staurós ("cross") as "torture stake" because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe that Jesus was crucified on a cross. The New World Translation does not translate the words sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus as "hell” because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in hell. The NWT gives the translation "presence" instead of “coming” for the Greek word parousia because Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ has already returned in the early 1900s. In Colossians 1:16, the NWT inserts the word “other” despite its being completely absent from the original Greek text. It does this to give the view that “all other things” were created by Christ, instead of what the text says, “all things were created by Christ.” This is to go along with their belief that Christ is a created being, which they believe because they deny the Trinity.

The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is John 1:1. The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.” This is not a matter of correct translation, but of reading one's preconceived theology into the text, rather than allowing the text to speak for itself. There is no indefinite article in Greek (in English, "a" or "an"), so any use of an indefinite article in English must be added by the translator. This is grammatically acceptable, so long as it does not change the meaning of the text.

There is a good reason why theos has no definite article in John 1:1 and why the New World Translation rendering is in error. There are three general rules we need to understand to see why.

1. In Greek, word order does not determine word usage like it does in English. In English, a sentence is structured according to word order: Subject - Verb - Object. Thus, "Harry called the dog" is not equivalent to "the dog called Harry." But in Greek, a word's function is determined by the case ending found attached to the word's root. There are two case endings for the root theo: one is -s (theos), the other is -n (theon). The -s ending normally identifies a noun as being the subject of a sentence, while the -n ending normally identifies a noun as the direct object.

2. When a noun functions as a predicate nominative (in English, a noun that follows a being verb such as "is"), its case ending must match the noun's case that it renames, so that the reader will know which noun it is defining. Therefore, theo must take the -s ending because it is renaming logos. Therefore, John 1:1 transliterates to "kai theos en ho logos." Is theos the subject, or is logos? Both have the -s ending. The answer is found in the next rule.

3. In cases where two nouns appear, and both take the same case ending, the author will often add the definite article to the word that is the subject in order to avoid confusion. John put the definite article on logos (“the Word”) instead of on theos. So, logos is the subject, and theos is the predicate nominative. In English, this results in John 1:1 being read as "and the Word was God" (instead of "and God was the word").

The most revealing evidence of the Watchtower's bias is their inconsistent translation technique. Throughout the Gospel of John, the Greek word theon occurs without a definite article. The New World Translation renders none of these as “a god.” Just three verses after John 1:1, the New World Translation translates another case of theos without the indefinite article as "God." Even more inconsistent, in John 1:18, the NWT translates the same term as both "God" and "god" in the very same sentence.

The Watchtower, therefore, has no hard textual grounds for their translation—only their own theological bias. While New World Translation defenders might succeed in showing that John 1:1 can be translated as they have done, they cannot show that it is the proper translation. Nor can they explain the fact that that the NWT does not translate the same Greek phrases elsewhere in the Gospel of John the same way. It is only the pre-conceived heretical rejection of the deity of Christ that forces the Watchtower Society to inconsistently translate the Greek text, thus allowing their error to gain some semblance of legitimacy in the minds of those ignorant of the facts.

It is only the Watchtower's pre-conceived heretical beliefs that are behind the dishonest and inconsistent translation that is the New World Translation. The New World Translation is most definitely not a valid version of God’s Word. There are minor differences among all the major English translations of the Bible. No English translation is perfect. However, while other Bible translators make minor mistakes in the rendering of the Hebrew and Greek text into English, the NWT intentionally changes the rendering of the text to conform to Jehovah’s Witness theology. The New World Translation is a perversion, not a version, of the Bible."!!!!!!

Recommended Resources: Reasoning from the Script...Ron Rhodes.

http://www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html

[Edited 5/17/16 8:03am]

Say that!!!!

nursev said:

You can give a person peace guidance and love without changing their whole being and that is essentially what Larry did. He changed that part of Prince that made him Prince. Like I said were all just fans looking from the outside in, but Im sure we can agree that to change a persons whole essence is just wrong.

PurpleColossus said:

I've always felt as long as Prince was happy, he's free to believe whatever he wanted... *shrug*

.

Prince is the greatest artist of all time, he could sing about anything and make it sound good.

But that's what's messing me up. Was he "happy"? I can't prove otherwise, but deep down.....I didn't view him as a happy man offstage.

roxy831 said:

Astasheiks said:

You they certainly do twist the scriptures. Thats why they have their own Bible, thats why they don't take blood transfusions, they think Jesus was just a man, Michael the archangel sent to earth, they don't believe in the trinity, they think only they sect will be saved, etc. etc. Do some research!

"Question: "Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible?"

Answer: The New World Translation (NWT) is defined by the Jehovah's Witnesses’ parent organization (the Watchtower Society) as "a translation of the Holy Scriptures made directly from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek into modern-day English by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah." The NWT is the anonymous work of the “New World Bible Translation Committee.” Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that the anonymity is in place so that the credit for the work will go to God. Of course, this has the added benefit of keeping the translators from any accountability for their errors and prevents real scholars from checking their academic credentials.

The New World Translation is unique in one thing – it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group's doctrine. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that, as new editions of the New World Translation were published, additional changes were made to the biblical text. As biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed. Here are some of the more prominent examples of intentional revisions:

The New World Translation renders the Greek term word staurós ("cross") as "torture stake" because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe that Jesus was crucified on a cross. The New World Translation does not translate the words sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus as "hell” because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in hell. The NWT gives the translation "presence" instead of “coming” for the Greek word parousia because Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ has already returned in the early 1900s. In Colossians 1:16, the NWT inserts the word “other” despite its being completely absent from the original Greek text. It does this to give the view that “all other things” were created by Christ, instead of what the text says, “all things were created by Christ.” This is to go along with their belief that Christ is a created being, which they believe because they deny the Trinity.

The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is John 1:1. The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.” This is not a matter of correct translation, but of reading one's preconceived theology into the text, rather than allowing the text to speak for itself. There is no indefinite article in Greek (in English, "a" or "an"), so any use of an indefinite article in English must be added by the translator. This is grammatically acceptable, so long as it does not change the meaning of the text.

There is a good reason why theos has no definite article in John 1:1 and why the New World Translation rendering is in error. There are three general rules we need to understand to see why.

1. In Greek, word order does not determine word usage like it does in English. In English, a sentence is structured according to word order: Subject - Verb - Object. Thus, "Harry called the dog" is not equivalent to "the dog called Harry." But in Greek, a word's function is determined by the case ending found attached to the word's root. There are two case endings for the root theo: one is -s (theos), the other is -n (theon). The -s ending normally identifies a noun as being the subject of a sentence, while the -n ending normally identifies a noun as the direct object.

2. When a noun functions as a predicate nominative (in English, a noun that follows a being verb such as "is"), its case ending must match the noun's case that it renames, so that the reader will know which noun it is defining. Therefore, theo must take the -s ending because it is renaming logos. Therefore, John 1:1 transliterates to "kai theos en ho logos." Is theos the subject, or is logos? Both have the -s ending. The answer is found in the next rule.

3. In cases where two nouns appear, and both take the same case ending, the author will often add the definite article to the word that is the subject in order to avoid confusion. John put the definite article on logos (“the Word”) instead of on theos. So, logos is the subject, and theos is the predicate nominative. In English, this results in John 1:1 being read as "and the Word was God" (instead of "and God was the word").

The most revealing evidence of the Watchtower's bias is their inconsistent translation technique. Throughout the Gospel of John, the Greek word theon occurs without a definite article. The New World Translation renders none of these as “a god.” Just three verses after John 1:1, the New World Translation translates another case of theos without the indefinite article as "God." Even more inconsistent, in John 1:18, the NWT translates the same term as both "God" and "god" in the very same sentence.

The Watchtower, therefore, has no hard textual grounds for their translation—only their own theological bias. While New World Translation defenders might succeed in showing that John 1:1 can be translated as they have done, they cannot show that it is the proper translation. Nor can they explain the fact that that the NWT does not translate the same Greek phrases elsewhere in the Gospel of John the same way. It is only the pre-conceived heretical rejection of the deity of Christ that forces the Watchtower Society to inconsistently translate the Greek text, thus allowing their error to gain some semblance of legitimacy in the minds of those ignorant of the facts.

It is only the Watchtower's pre-conceived heretical beliefs that are behind the dishonest and inconsistent translation that is the New World Translation. The New World Translation is most definitely not a valid version of God’s Word. There are minor differences among all the major English translations of the Bible. No English translation is perfect. However, while other Bible translators make minor mistakes in the rendering of the Hebrew and Greek text into English, the NWT intentionally changes the rendering of the text to conform to Jehovah’s Witness theology. The New World Translation is a perversion, not a version, of the Bible."!!!!!!

Recommended Resources: Reasoning from the Script...Ron Rhodes.

http://www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html

[Edited 5/17/16 8:03am]

Say that!!!!

Yes Sir! AMEN TO SE7EN to his original reply to cracking of the JWs false teachings!!!!

roxy831 said:

Bunsterdk said:

roxy831 said:

Prince made changes because that's what he wanted to do. He has made that plain more than once in interviews and songs. He was a grown man and frankly one of the more stubborn ones to walk this planet. No-one could make him do something he didn't want to do, least of all for fifteen years. Come on. He also did things that I disagree with, but I don't go around blaming others for that. They were his choices and I respect him too much to pretend it was the work of someone else although it would fit my own personal narrative better. He was the man he was, no matter what any of us perceive as the "perfect Prince".

I don't believe Larry or anyone else has (ever) had ill intent. Prince needed that father/big brother influence and if that made him feel safer in this world, I'm glad even if I dont like Larry.

Two things can be true simultaneously - someone should have stayed with him, even if he was mad about it...and Princes own decisions killed him. Both this things can be true without it meaning his friends had ill intent. It is what it is.

An almost OD is also absolute proof of needing 24/7 supervision, no matter how lucid you become after, no matter if you're Prince or Joe Schmo.

No amount of feeling bad for his friends changes that. You can feel bad for them and still realize he shouldn’t have been left alone. That doesnt mean it's their fault, but they did fail ...thats true without assigning blame.

Prince wasnt able to make proper decisions for himself at that point, yet he didnt know it. He agreed to getting help, why WOULDNT he agree to having someone around? He was in a withdrawal situation, thats why... and by that point and everyone knew it. 'Increasingly agistated' is the descriptor, and means shaky decision making. Expecting him to make good decisions at that point isnt fair to him is it? He was literally detoxing....

Everyone did everything they thought they could except challenge him when he was becoming agitated and consequently a danger to himself....him wanting to be alone was him becoming a danger to himself - thats what that was....thats when he could be alone long enough to take something, and Prince knew that - but he wasnt able to make rational decisions - he thought he'd be fine, and died by accident. So yes, Princes decisions are his responsibility, but also yes...he should not have been left alone under any circumstances.

Its not anyones 'fault' what happened to Prince - our grief will eventually side with sense, but thats why we're all here to hash these things out with each other and heal somehow? The grief side is ugly for everyone.

I have met Larry Graham and his wife and they are two of the nicest people that I have met.

How can you profess love for the man Prince and not love the fact that Larry Graham helped him find some peace in his life?