I totally get what you're saying, terrig, and agree to a certain extent.

But I don't agree that the hatred expressed here against Prince's friends and faith can be explained with grief. It's about something else, but that lies with those feeling it and nothing anyone else can do about that. Obviously not even Prince.

muleFunk - couldn't agree more.

Larry

ksgemini63 said:

To answer earlier poster I am not done crucifying Larry for the opportunistic satanic trash they he and wifey are. When they r in the ground I'll stop he's 69 will not long... [Edited 6/29/16 14:58pm]

I wonder what is the possibility of LG and his wife becoming "Born Again Christains" before that happens?

terrig said:

Bunsterdk said:

roxy831 said: Prince made changes because that's what he wanted to do. He has made that plain more than once in interviews and songs. He was a grown man and frankly one of the more stubborn ones to walk this planet. No-one could make him do something he didn't want to do, least of all for fifteen years. Come on. He also did things that I disagree with, but I don't go around blaming others for that. They were his choices and I respect him too much to pretend it was the work of someone else although it would fit my own personal narrative better. He was the man he was, no matter what any of us perceive as the "perfect Prince".

I don't believe Larry or anyone else has (ever) had ill intent. Prince needed that father/big brother influence and if that made him feel safer in this world, I'm glad even if I dont like Larry.

Two things can be true simultaneously - someone should have stayed with him, even if he was mad about it...and Princes own decisions killed him. Both this things can be true without it meaning his friends had ill intent. It is what it is.

An almost OD is also absolute proof of needing 24/7 supervision, no matter how lucid you become after, no matter if you're Prince or Joe Schmo.

No amount of feeling bad for his friends changes that. You can feel bad for them and still realize he shouldn’t have been left alone. That doesnt mean it's their fault, but they did fail ...thats true without assigning blame.

Prince wasnt able to make proper decisions for himself at that point, yet he didnt know it. He agreed to getting help, why WOULDNT he agree to having someone around? He was in a withdrawal situation, thats why... and by that point and everyone knew it. 'Increasingly agistated' is the descriptor, and means shaky decision making. Expecting him to make good decisions at that point isnt fair to him is it? He was literally detoxing....

Everyone did everything they thought they could except challenge him when he was becoming agitated and consequently a danger to himself....him wanting to be alone was him becoming a danger to himself - thats what that was....thats when he could be alone long enough to take something, and Prince knew that - but he wasnt able to make rational decisions - he thought he'd be fine, and died by accident. So yes, Princes decisions are his responsibility, but also yes...he should not have been left alone under any circumstances.

Its not anyones 'fault' what happened to Prince - our grief will eventually side with sense, but thats why we're all here to hash these things out with each other and heal somehow? The grief side is ugly for everyone.

.

Exactly. I highlighted what I didn't say as well as you did.

laytonian said:

terrig said:

I don't believe Larry or anyone else has (ever) had ill intent. Prince needed that father/big brother influence and if that made him feel safer in this world, I'm glad even if I dont like Larry.

Two things can be true simultaneously - someone should have stayed with him, even if he was mad about it...and Princes own decisions killed him. Both this things can be true without it meaning his friends had ill intent. It is what it is.

An almost OD is also absolute proof of needing 24/7 supervision, no matter how lucid you become after, no matter if you're Prince or Joe Schmo.

No amount of feeling bad for his friends changes that. You can feel bad for them and still realize he shouldn’t have been left alone. That doesnt mean it's their fault, but they did fail ...thats true without assigning blame.

Prince wasnt able to make proper decisions for himself at that point, yet he didnt know it. He agreed to getting help, why WOULDNT he agree to having someone around? He was in a withdrawal situation, thats why... and by that point and everyone knew it. 'Increasingly agistated' is the descriptor, and means shaky decision making. Expecting him to make good decisions at that point isnt fair to him is it? He was literally detoxing....

Everyone did everything they thought they could except challenge him when he was becoming agitated and consequently a danger to himself....him wanting to be alone was him becoming a danger to himself - thats what that was....thats when he could be alone long enough to take something, and Prince knew that - but he wasnt able to make rational decisions - he thought he'd be fine, and died by accident. So yes, Princes decisions are his responsibility, but also yes...he should not have been left alone under any circumstances.

Its not anyones 'fault' what happened to Prince - our grief will eventually side with sense, but thats why we're all here to hash these things out with each other and heal somehow? The grief side is ugly for everyone.

.

Exactly. I highlighted what I didn't say as well as you did.

Somehow my name was tagged to a statement I didn't make in this thread....just sayin'

Astasheiks said:

No one is blinder than he who will not see

laytonian said:

rogifan said:

laytonian said: It really burns me up that people make assumptions without knowing all the facts. Why do we assume these people weren't there when he needed them? Again none of us are part of his inner circle, we know next to nothing. Most of what's been reported isn't fact it's rumor. The medical examiners report labeled it an accidental overdose. Why can't people accept it was a tragic accident that wasn't anyone's fault?

We know ONE fact for sure: a man with a "grave condition" was dropped off alone just a few hours before a doctor (racing cross-country to save that life) would show up.
A "grave condition" truly does mean "near death". That's why it's "grave". At this point, a life-threatening addiction was in place and that's not a situation where the patient is thinking clearly.

Judgmental? Yup. If we don't judge, we make grave errors.

If the situation was serious enough for a doctor to feel he needed to catch a night flight cross country, it surely was serious enough for Prince not to be left alone. Sure Prince was a grown man, made his own decisions, but grown men make bad decisions all the time.
As for LG... sorry, I never liked him. Thought he was too strong an influence on Prince. Where was this father figure, older mentor when everyone was calling doctors and trying some sort of intervention? LG should have not left Prince's side ever since the plane incident. Ever.

[Edited 7/1/16 7:42am]

"As for LG... sorry, I never liked him. Thought he was too strong an influence on Prince."

LG's approval rating seems to be in the low teens, like 1%.

Most industry insiders knew that Larry was milking Prince. Larry lost his identity long ago and was willing to help Prince find his, for a price. Larry is a "nice" person(whatever that means) but if you ever spoke to Larry in depth , you would know in fairly short order that he had very little interest in nurturing intellectual curiosity. This is no secret. Perhaps he's one of the special 144,000 that will make it in.

I always look forward to a once a month slaughter of such members of these "organizations". I have learned so much.

The most important thing I have learned is that arguing with such"keepers of the truth" is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to sh*t on the board and strut around like it won anyway.

ksgemini63 said:

Astasheiks said:

I wonder what is the possibility of LG and his wife becoming "Born Again Christains" before that happens?

No one is blinder than he who will not see

This reminds me of something P once said which was "Would U know the Devil was talking to U if he was not dressed as such?" He should have took his own observation to heart. Oh and NO I'm not calling LG the devil. A snakeoil salesman, wolf in sheeps clothing? Yes, if the shoe fits.

[Edited 7/3/16 9:53am]

Toxic


This man and the Watchtower organization used Princes extreme love of God,
and the Word to twist his beliefs for the sole purpose of building brick walls between the man and those who loved him unconditionally - resulting in many severed relationships - and a LOT of money made for both LG and the Watchtower.

BUT, karma is a b****

Menes said:

Most industry insiders knew that Larry was milking Prince. Larry lost his identity long ago and was willing to help Prince find his, for a price. Larry is a "nice" person(whatever that means) but if you ever spoke to Larry in depth , you would know in fairly short order that he had very little interest in nurturing intellectual curiosity. This is no secret. Perhaps he's one of the special 144,000 that will make it in.

I always look forward to a once a month slaughter of such members of these "organizations". I have learned so much.

The most important thing I have learned is that arguing with such"keepers of the truth" is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to sh*t on the board and strut around like it won anyway.

Show 'Nough!

ACharmed1 said:

ksgemini63 said:

Astasheiks said: No one is blinder than he who will not see

This reminds me of something P once said which was "Would U know the Devil was talking to U if he was not dressed as such?" He should have took his own observation to heart. Oh and NO I'm not calling LG the devil. A snakeoil salesman, wolf in sheeps clothing? Yes, if the shoe fits.

[Edited 7/3/16 9:53am]

I bet he wished he did now!

YaThink said:

Toxic This man and the Watchtower organization used Princes extreme love of God, and the Word to twist his beliefs for the sole purpose of building brick walls between the man and those who loved him unconditionally - resulting in many severed relationships - and a LOT of money made for both LG and the Watchtower. BUT, karma is a b****

AMEN!

MMJas said:

If the situation was serious enough for a doctor to feel he needed to catch a night flight cross country, it surely was serious enough for Prince not to be left alone. Sure Prince was a grown man, made his own decisions, but grown men make bad decisions all the time.
As for LG... sorry, I never liked him. Thought he was too strong an influence on Prince. Where was this father figure, older mentor when everyone was calling doctors and trying some sort of intervention? LG should have not left Prince's side ever since the plane incident. Ever.

[Edited 7/1/16 7:42am]

Is it possible, that at THIS particular time, he DIDN'T know?...For him to go out of his way to move to Minneapolis and to "minister" to Prince (which sounds like a "mission" move),, Why wouldn't someone on that plane from the week of Prince's Moline intervention call LG?....I'm just sayin.'

YaThink said:

Toxic This man and the Watchtower organization used Princes extreme love of God, and the Word to twist his beliefs for the sole purpose of building brick walls between the man and those who loved him unconditionally - resulting in many severed relationships - and a LOT of money made for both LG and the Watchtower. BUT, karma is a b****

Cuz that's what cults do. But to be fair, all religions (cults) do this IMO.

CROWNS1 said:

YaThink said:

Toxic This man and the Watchtower organization used Princes extreme love of God, and the Word to twist his beliefs for the sole purpose of building brick walls between the man and those who loved him unconditionally - resulting in many severed relationships - and a LOT of money made for both LG and the Watchtower. BUT, karma is a b****

Cuz that's what cults do. But to be fair, all religions (cults) do this IMO.

I live among Mormons (LDS). It's amazing what people will believe. Both the LDS and JW are very recent religions in the scheme of things. Proselytizers, all.

Prince's problem would be mixing religion (which is primarily concerned with morals) with his philosophy (which was how he saw ethics in his personal life). The big difference is morals have to do with man's relationship with God, and ethics has to do with man's relationship to man.

Most organized sub-sects of world religions deal in morals that are absolute. Ethics are relative. At times he was contrary to a lot of his religious morals, especially those of JW, yet he enjoyed his freedom to form his own ethics. Sort of "have your cake and it too".

roxy831 said:

Because they were likely as bigoted and ill-informed as many of the posters in this thread. But thanks for pointing this out. I've been thinking the same thing. Seems that Prince himself was in denial and no-one thought to bring in his true friends who would have cleared their schedule at moment's notice to rush to his side.

Which in the twisted minds of some here will translate into a suspicious want of money because no-one could in their understanding of the world just merely love others enough to do anything out of love alone. I hate to think what kind of sad existence they must live.

Incidentally.. If they consider jw so awful, don't forget that Prince was one for fifteen years. And he certainly didn't keep his mouth shut about it. So claiming any love for Prince while hating all other jw is just plain hypocrisy. In my not so humble opinion.

And they just have no respect whatsoever for the man if they think that out of eight million jw he was the only one not capable of being held personally accountable for his beliefs, choices and actions. Always someone else's fault. Was that how he himself lived his life? No, far from it. He wasn't a child. He was a grown man who made his own decisions. Deal with it.

I don't know Larry personally and neither do they. They just hate the fact (!) that their idol didn't act the way they wanted him to, but had the audacity to make his own choices in life. And someone else must pay for this so they don't have to change their fantasy.

No-one is winning this discussion. It's not about winning. It's about respecting the man this site was set up to honour. Don't you guys think by now he's read your views on Larry and JW? He was here on the Org, he knew. And he obviously didn't agree. News flash - he actually knew Larry. Maybe, just maybe, he was better at judging his character than any of you?

Bunsterdk said:

Agreed! And thank you for posting this!!

wherethedrums said:

Bunsterdk said:

Because they were likely as bigoted and ill-informed as many of the posters in this thread. But thanks for pointing this out. I've been thinking the same thing. Seems that Prince himself was in denial and no-one thought to bring in his true friends who would have cleared their schedule at moment's notice to rush to his side. Which in the twisted minds of some here will translate into a suspicious want of money because no-one could in their understanding of the world just merely love others enough to do anything out of love alone. I hate to think what kind of sad existence they must live. Incidentally.. If they consider jw so awful, don't forget that Prince was one for fifteen years. And he certainly didn't keep his mouth shut about it. So claiming any love for Prince while hating all other jw is just plain hypocrisy. In my not so humble opinion. And they just have no respect whatsoever for the man if they think that out of eight million jw he was the only one not capable of being held personally accountable for his beliefs, choices and actions. Always someone else's fault. Was that how he himself lived his life? No, far from it. He wasn't a child. He was a grown man who made his own decisions. Deal with it. I don't know Larry personally and neither do they. They just hate the fact (!) that their idol didn't act the way they wanted him to, but had the audacity to make his own choices in life. And someone else must pay for this so they don't have to change their fantasy. No-one is winning this discussion. It's not about winning. It's about respecting the man this site was set up to honour. Don't you guys think by now he's read your views on Larry and JW? He was here on the Org, he knew. And he obviously didn't agree. News flash - he actually knew Larry. Maybe, just maybe, he was better at judging his character than any of you?

Agreed! And thank you for posting this!!

Yeah....you guys really don't know what I was "pointing out."

roxy831 said:

MMJas said:

If the situation was serious enough for a doctor to feel he needed to catch a night flight cross country, it surely was serious enough for Prince not to be left alone. Sure Prince was a grown man, made his own decisions, but grown men make bad decisions all the time.
As for LG... sorry, I never liked him. Thought he was too strong an influence on Prince. Where was this father figure, older mentor when everyone was calling doctors and trying some sort of intervention? LG should have not left Prince's side ever since the plane incident. Ever.

[Edited 7/1/16 7:42am]

Is it possible, that at THIS particular time, he DIDN'T know?...For him to go out of his way to move to Minneapolis and to "minister" to Prince (which sounds like a "mission" move),, Why wouldn't someone on that plane from the week of Prince's Moline intervention call LG?....I'm just sayin.'

I'm not going as far as that. The plane incident wasw all over the news. I meant right after that.

Bunsterdk said:

roxy831 said:

Is it possible, that at THIS particular time, he DIDN'T know?...For him to go out of his way to move to Minneapolis and to "minister" to Prince (which sounds like a "mission" move),, Why wouldn't someone on that plane from the week of Prince's Moline intervention call LG?....I'm just sayin.'

Because they were likely as bigoted and ill-informed as many of the posters in this thread. But thanks for pointing this out. I've been thinking the same thing. Seems that Prince himself was in denial and no-one thought to bring in his true friends who would have cleared their schedule at moment's notice to rush to his side. Which in the twisted minds of some here will translate into a suspicious want of money because no-one could in their understanding of the world just merely love others enough to do anything out of love alone. I hate to think what kind of sad existence they must live. Incidentally.. If they consider jw so awful, don't forget that Prince was one for fifteen years. And he certainly didn't keep his mouth shut about it. So claiming any love for Prince while hating all other jw is just plain hypocrisy. In my not so humble opinion. And they just have no respect whatsoever for the man if they think that out of eight million jw he was the only one not capable of being held personally accountable for his beliefs, choices and actions. Always someone else's fault. Was that how he himself lived his life? No, far from it. He wasn't a child. He was a grown man who made his own decisions. Deal with it. I don't know Larry personally and neither do they. They just hate the fact (!) that their idol didn't act the way they wanted him to, but had the audacity to make his own choices in life. And someone else must pay for this so they don't have to change their fantasy. No-one is winning this discussion. It's not about winning. It's about respecting the man this site was set up to honour. Don't you guys think by now he's read your views on Larry and JW? He was here on the Org, he knew. And he obviously didn't agree. News flash - he actually knew Larry. Maybe, just maybe, he was better at judging his character than any of you?

Never once did I mention anything regarding the JW faith.

Bunsterdk said:

roxy831 said:

Is it possible, that at THIS particular time, he DIDN'T know?...For him to go out of his way to move to Minneapolis and to "minister" to Prince (which sounds like a "mission" move),, Why wouldn't someone on that plane from the week of Prince's Moline intervention call LG?....I'm just sayin.'

Because they were likely as bigoted and ill-informed as many of the posters in this thread. But thanks for pointing this out. I've been thinking the same thing. Seems that Prince himself was in denial and no-one thought to bring in his true friends who would have cleared their schedule at moment's notice to rush to his side. Which in the twisted minds of some here will translate into a suspicious want of money because no-one could in their understanding of the world just merely love others enough to do anything out of love alone. I hate to think what kind of sad existence they must live. Incidentally.. If they consider jw so awful, don't forget that Prince was one for fifteen years. And he certainly didn't keep his mouth shut about it. So claiming any love for Prince while hating all other jw is just plain hypocrisy. In my not so humble opinion. And they just have no respect whatsoever for the man if they think that out of eight million jw he was the only one not capable of being held personally accountable for his beliefs, choices and actions. Always someone else's fault. Was that how he himself lived his life? No, far from it. He wasn't a child. He was a grown man who made his own decisions. Deal with it. I don't know Larry personally and neither do they. They just hate the fact (!) that their idol didn't act the way they wanted him to, but had the audacity to make his own choices in life. And someone else must pay for this so they don't have to change their fantasy. No-one is winning this discussion. It's not about winning. It's about respecting the man this site was set up to honour. Don't you guys think by now he's read your views on Larry and JW? He was here on the Org, he knew. And he obviously didn't agree. News flash - he actually knew Larry. Maybe, just maybe, he was better at judging his character than any of you?

And he was a Fool for 15 years then. I bet he would love to come back and Jesus Witness to you all. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 You JWs do just opposite what Jesus stated himself. I think I'll take Jesus words over yours...

Astasheiks said:

Well, who's the worst fool - the fool or the one who follows him? If you think him a fool, then what are you doing following him here? That's an awful lot of time to be wasting on a fool. LOL

You really don't know the first thing about what jw actually believe, do you? Or do you deliberately misrepresent their beliefs? Of course we come to the Father (Jehovah) through his son (Jesus). That's why JWs come together to remember the death of Jesus every year. The aforementioned fool - and his friend Larry - took part in that memorial less than a month prior to his death.

It would be interesting to have a real debate on religion (though not in this forum), but it is completely impossible to have a meaningful debate with people who don't stick to the facts. Again.. Jw.org where those interested in actual facts will find them.

Got to respect other faiths even if they are not mine. Anyone who wants to be in a genuine relationship with God will be welcomed with open arms imo.

There are myriad paths to the Truth.

MMJas said:

roxy831 said:

Is it possible, that at THIS particular time, he DIDN'T know?...For him to go out of his way to move to Minneapolis and to "minister" to Prince (which sounds like a "mission" move),, Why wouldn't someone on that plane from the week of Prince's Moline intervention call LG?....I'm just sayin.'

I'm not going as far as that. The plane incident wasw all over the news. I meant right after that.

I understood what you meant, MMJas. Thanks.

panpac777 said:

Larry did not poison anything. If anything I feel he was a true and valued friend for Prince. I have met Larry and he is one of the kindest and sweetest people I have ever met! He signed my checkbook "Ur one in a million" at Paisley Park Celebration "Rainbow Children" in 2001. I am greatful Prince had a true friend in him in his life. He needed that. Always with a smile on his face. He has a positive energy and light. I am so greatful Prince had a brother/father figure of sorts.

[Edited 5/16/16 10:51am]

[Edited 5/16/16 10:52am]

[Edited 5/16/16 10:53am]

You are basing everything you know and feel about a person because they signed your checkbook?

In any case....I don't think LG is to blame for anything per say...P was always very aware of God from the beginning and I think LG came at just the right time and as all good JW's do, he persisited until he converted. Too bad for those like Wendy and Lisa, who were once best friends who now were deemed unworthy. Damn, even Jesus took time with the woman at the well. It's really sad because P was controversial but not because of singing about killing people or robbing people or anything horrible. He just sang about sex. And somehow even he was convinced by 'religion' that it was wrong to do so. SMH.

I don't think anyone really knew Prince. Maybe KJ and his ex wifes would come closest but I have my doubts that even they truly knew him.

[Edited 7/4/16 10:06am]

Maybe casual sex is wrong! Prince promoted irresponsible sexual behavior for years. Sad but all too true

CROWNS1 said:

ksgemini63 said:

Maybe casual sex is wrong! Prince promoted irresponsible sexual behavior for years. Sad but all too true

Everyone has an opinion. Like I said, I don't blame LG for Prince's death. But Prince did have some socialization challenges. He was gullible and immature in some areas. He believed conspiracy theories, he thought watch advertisements were a secret message, etc....so..it's not unfair to say that he was an easy target for someone who wanted to push their religious beliefs on him.