I have read that a Narcan shot can cause immediate, severe withdrawal symptoms (because it instantly negates the effect of opiods in the body, which can be very tough for an addicated user).

And this is speculation -- but perhaps withdrawal symptoms from the Narcan shot from the plane incident, combined with inadequate aftercare, sent him down a hard spiral, which he ended up "self treating" on April 20-21 with too much opiod? Obviously we won't know this until the official report's done (and maybe not even then), but I can't stop myself from wondering about this, because so much of it just makes so logical sense to me.

BanishedBrian said:

cardinal said:

MMJas said:

He might just have had the pills on him at the time, like in his pocket or whatever. He was found in the elevator, so he was going to or from somewhere, I guess, so he took them with him. If there had been any indications of suicide the bottle would have been empty, right? That was probably the reasoning behind the "no evidence of suicide". Either that or the xeriff just wanted to respect his privacy.
Also, if it has been established he was being treated for opioid withdrawal symptoms that means he had acknowledged an addiction/dependency problem and was dealing with. Perhaps those symptoms were getting to be too difficult to handle, his staff might have decided to call the doctor for an emergency meeting. He could have decided that the he'd rather continue taking the opiates (hence the plane incident) cause the withdrawl symptoms were too awful and made him feel worse and were affecting his work, and his staff got so concerned with that set back that they called a doctor to intervene.
Of course, again, all this is speculation on my part.

*

Edited: was just reading this:

"Sources with knowledge of the investigation have told the Star Tribune that despite putting on a calm face after his emergency treatment for an opioid overdose in Moline, Ill., on April 15, Prince grew increasingly agitated in the following days. That prompted one member of his staff to place a call to New York at 6 a.m. on April 20 — the day before the musician’s body was found — seeking advice from someone who had recently worked with the musician, a source said.

Later that day, Prince was given an intravenous treatment at a local hospital, a source with knowledge of the investigation said."

*
Ok, so an alleged OD on the plane, rushed to hospital, then (5 days later) is given an intravenous treatment at the local hospital, on the 20th!!!!!... For me, this question still remains: WHY WAS THIS MAN LEFT ALONE? There were too many health scares on those few days! I saddens me so to think that all this could have been prevented...

[Edited 5/21/16 2:00am]

ok now i am just livid. a man whose plan practically dove down a few days earlier, who is agitated (when has anyone seen prince agitated? the man exuded tranquility and explosive energy at once but not agitation), and had AN IV TREATMENT THAT DAY is left alone? and please, no more "he was prince, stubborn, blah blah" this is fricking INSANE, peeps. and what the eff was in that iv and who gets iv medicine and just goes home like nothing happened? alone? damn. i am NOT liking the way this is shaping up. and why the f$ck call ny at 6am on the 20th? these people never heard of 911? [Edited 5/21/16 5:05am]

I've seen Prince agitated. I've also had family members become agitated to the point that they reached psychosis. I wouldn't be so quick to judge everyone involved. People in an agitated state can be very strong willed, so it would not surprise me if Kirk's offer to stay over was rebuffed and he felt powerless to do anything about it, or had no reason to think an OD was imminent.

As to the IV treatments: they are common if you go to a hospital and appear dehydrated. It is SOP. I had one a few months ago after getting food poisoning, and there were no instructions that I needed somebody to stay with me after I was released.

cardinal said:

BanishedBrian said:

I've seen Prince agitated. I've also had family members become agitated to the point that they reached psychosis. I wouldn't be so quick to judge everyone involved. People in an agitated state can be very strong willed, so it would not surprise me if Kirk's offer to stay over was rebuffed and he felt powerless to do anything about it, or had no reason to think an OD was imminent.

As to the IV treatments: they are common if you go to a hospital and appear dehydrated. It is SOP. I had one a few months ago after getting food poisoning, and there were no instructions that I needed somebody to stay with me after I was released.

not trying to dump on kirk or the assistant, and they sure are not medical professionals. what bothers me is that there were a number of concerning incidents, each one concerning on its own, but in combination, are strongly suggestive of a serious situation. its hard to imagine from this vantage point that there is any scenario where medical staff and or his closest associates would see fit to leave him alone or call an out of state dr other than 911. i guess i am preparing for the worst, which would be that several individuals will be charged with some type of malpracrice/negligent homicide and we will know that this was preventable. but we will have to wait until the picture is clear.

you blaming everyoine but Prince..There is no legal obligation to stay with someone..Further , its clear that he left the hospital in MOline AMA...the most they can do is get a judge to sign a 48 hr hold bbut that doesnt happen immediately...

cardinal said:

can someone link me to where this has come out that he was an "addict?" and i don't mean tmz...,last i read, the sheriffs office has not confirmed any of the rumors about his condition or what killed him. there are many reasons why someone could be agitated, if he was. pain, the end stage of a terminal illness, and chemical dependency are some of the possibilities for sure. but before we assume that prince was an addict or had an opioid problem, i am going to wait until the official word comes out. why are so many in a rush to make this narrative fit? the guy could have been in pain from terminal cancer, and he has been made out to be another rock star od. addiction and dependency are real issues with real victims. but prince may or may not be one of those victims. we just don't know yet. trying times not knowing, i know peace, all

for fucks sake,..look at the pics..further, i ahve a muscisan friend who is also addicted to opiods...when he is clean music is focused...when he is not, its ramblings..go and listen to some of the instrumentals Prince threw up on Instagram

Didn't Kirk say Prince actually sent him home to TX (?) Because he wanted time alone. He said Prince did that whenever he needed to be alone.

That was Chris Gaither: http://edition.cnn.com/20...rd-speaks/

KaresB said:

Careful with the word 'addict'.

Most people associate it with 'junkie'. Let's be clear: Prince most certainly was NOT 'shooting up to get high'.

If he was in so much pain for such a long time that he NEEDED a painkiller to get by, that obviously led to his body developing a dependancy, thus he became an 'addict' to that painkiller – just as people who drink coffee or tea every day are addicted to caffeine, yet for some reason society doesn't label them 'addicts'.

please stop with the separation..Mosty addicts didnt start with shooting up ...AN dfor Prince that was just a yet as when the perc supply dried best beleive he would have sought something else..,he is not special or unique in this manner

This latest news is unbearable ... all I see now is Prince lying dead for 6 hours in that elevator at Paisley Park, his home, all alone ... no CPR in the world could have brought him back to life that morning when he was (finally) found, oh man this is all making me sad and angry at the same time ...

lwr001 said:

So if this is all true (and I trust the Star Trib), it sounds like he was trying to get off the stuff and may have dosed up in order to feel well enough to perform in Atlanta, leading to a first overdose. My understanding is that with opiods, you are most vulnerable to overdose when in withdrawal because you tend to take the old, high dose that your body is no longer used to. Then he was thrown into sudden withdrawal again with a save shot and left alone. It's all so sad, especially the alone part. But then, I suspect there is a reason Prince surrounded himself with 20-somethings in recent years. People his own age who had known him for years would have insisted on proper treatment and a halt to performing until this was all sorted out.

*Kirk excepted, obviously.

[Edited 5/21/16 9:44am]

Mkilpatrick74 said:

lwr001 said:

for fucks sake,..look at the pics..further, i ahve a muscisan friend who is also addicted to opiods...when he is clean music is focused...when he is not, its ramblings..go and listen to some of the instrumentals Prince threw up on Instagram

Is your friend in chronic pain or does he take them for the euphoric effect?

Makes no difference..your response is that of an enabler, when we enabler we make excuises as to why they are taking...Best believe, that if a plane diverrts he went went past the poiint of medicincal paion purposes and it was euphoric...

Folks on here think Prince was differnt cuzz he made PR; nope..He may have thjought that as well and thinking cost him unfportunately his life

Mkilpatrick74 said:

lwr001 said:

for fucks sake,..look at the pics..further, i ahve a muscisan friend who is also addicted to opiods...when he is clean music is focused...when he is not, its ramblings..go and listen to some of the instrumentals Prince threw up on Instagram

Is your friend in chronic pain or does he take them for the euphoric effect?

Regardless of how a person comes to start taking opioids, they always return for the euphoric (i.e., physical and emotional pain free) effect. Part of the reason that society is failing to deal with the opioid epidemic is that this distinction is being made.

limoncello said:

So if this is all true (and I trust the Star Trib), it sounds like he was trying to get off the stuff and may have dosed up in order to feel well enough to perform in Atlanta, leading to a first overdose. My understanding is that with opiods, you are most vulnerable to overdose when in withdrawal because you tend to take the old, high dose that your body is no longer used to. Then he was thrown into sudden withdrawal again with a save shot and left alone. It's all so sad, especially the alone part. But then, I suspect there is a reason Prince surrounded himself with 20-somethings in recent years. People his own age who had known him for years would have insisted on proper treatment and a halt to performing until this was all sorted out.

*Kirk excepted, obviously.

99.9% of people on opioids are trying to get off the stuff.

You don't dose up to feel "well enough" to perform... you dose up because your brain spends all of its waking energy wanting the stuff and you finally give in to it. Imagine you were dying of thirst and there was a bucket of salt water sitting in front of you... you wouldn't eventually drink it because you thought it would make you feel better, you'd drink it because the temptation would just be too strong for you to resist at some point, even if you knew it would make you feel worse.

BombFunk said:

This latest news is unbearable ... all I see now is Prince lying dead for 6 hours in that elevator at Paisley Park, his home, all alone ... no CPR in the world could have brought him back to life that morning when he was (finally) found, oh man this is all making me sad and angry at the same time ...

Why is it more unbearable and anger inducing if he was dead in an elevator for 6 hours versus dying 5 minutes before they got there?

BanishedBrian said:

limoncello said:

So if this is all true (and I trust the Star Trib), it sounds like he was trying to get off the stuff and may have dosed up in order to feel well enough to perform in Atlanta, leading to a first overdose. My understanding is that with opiods, you are most vulnerable to overdose when in withdrawal because you tend to take the old, high dose that your body is no longer used to. Then he was thrown into sudden withdrawal again with a save shot and left alone. It's all so sad, especially the alone part. But then, I suspect there is a reason Prince surrounded himself with 20-somethings in recent years. People his own age who had known him for years would have insisted on proper treatment and a halt to performing until this was all sorted out.

*Kirk excepted, obviously.

99.9% of people on opioids are trying to get off the stuff.

You don't dose up to feel "well enough" to perform... you dose up because your brain spends all of its waking energy wanting the stuff and you finally give in to it. Imagine you were dying of thirst and there was a bucket of salt water sitting in front of you... you wouldn't eventually drink it because you thought it would make you feel better, you'd drink it because the temptation would just be too strong for you to resist at some point, even if you knew it would make you feel worse.

We do not disagree although your 99.9 percent number is obviously wrong. By "well enough," I meant "stop the withdrawals." If you read the reports closely, it sounds like he was actually withdrawing, which leads to flu-like symptoms and worse. Actual physical withdrawals is the most dangerous time for overdosing.

limoncello said:

So if this is all true (and I trust the Star Trib), it sounds like he was trying to get off the stuff and may have dosed up in order to feel well enough to perform in Atlanta, leading to a first overdose. My understanding is that with opiods, you are most vulnerable to overdose when in withdrawal because you tend to take the old, high dose that your body is no longer used to. Then he was thrown into sudden withdrawal again with a save shot and left alone. It's all so sad, especially the alone part. But then, I suspect there is a reason Prince surrounded himself with 20-somethings in recent years. People his own age who had known him for years would have insisted on proper treatment and a halt to performing until this was all sorted out.

*Kirk excepted, obviously.

[Edited 5/21/16 9:44am]

Shameless Maya, the photographer who worked with Prince, said Paisley Park had a high turnover rate because Prince was very demanding and at times very difficult to work for. He could be fun and inspiring. But when he got mad, he could make employees feel like nothing. Even one of his chefs quit because she expected to be on call 24/7 and ultimately had no life.

lwr001 said:

limoncello said:

BanishedBrian said:

99.9% of people on opioids are trying to get off the stuff.

You don't dose up to feel "well enough" to perform... you dose up because your brain spends all of its waking energy wanting the stuff and you finally give in to it. Imagine you were dying of thirst and there was a bucket of salt water sitting in front of you... you wouldn't eventually drink it because you thought it would make you feel better, you'd drink it because the temptation would just be too strong for you to resist at some point, even if you knew it would make you feel worse.

We do not disagree although your 99.9 percent number is obviously wrong. By "well enough," I meant "stop the withdrawals." If you read the reports closely, it sounds like he was actually withdrawing, which leads to flu-like symptoms and worse. Actual physical withdrawals is the most dangerous time for overdosing.

An time you ween off of alcohol and or opiods iot should be dome under mediacl asupervision..as it is dangerous

Mkilpatrick74 said:

Mkilpatrick74 said:

lwr001 said:

Makes no difference..your response is that of an enabler, when we enabler we make excuises as to why they are taking...Best believe, that if a plane diverrts he went went past the poiint of medicincal paion purposes and it was euphoric...

Folks on here think Prince was differnt cuzz he made PR; nope..He may have thjought that as well and thinking cost him unfportunately his life

An enabler I am not. I am s 41 year old woman who lives in chronic disabling pain everyday of my life bc of 10 spine surgeries to get me out of my wheelchair. Paib so bad it's compared to someone w stage 4 cancer, that's who I am. So I guess I can understand s little easier the mind set of someone in pain all day everyday. The only course of treatment and relief for me that works, and we have tried then all, is pain medication w physical therapy and massages etc. I just feel like you are more or less calling everyone on opioid an addict if at some point there body gas grown tolerant to a particular dose. I'm not saying its OK if he self medicated and took more than he should have trust me. But I'm also not gonna lie and say I don't understand why he did it. And I just don't think it's always emotional cravings cause I do not crave them like that. I just went pain relief. And sometimes we have to work to tweak doses to get the right for for me. Each person s different. I'm not trying to argue I hope u know that. Just trying to have a civil conversation. I think it is important. [Edited 5/21/16 10:13am]

shouold we start comapring medical pronblems a s if you are the one with issues.. I';; state again, enablers make excuses for peoples behavior...And yes you may have pain yet you are still living,,,so, you didnt self medicate past doasge prescribed

donnyenglish said:

They know how he died. They don't know who facilitated it. The delay is because indictments are coming. They are not investigating his cause of death. They are investigating others involvement. Once that happens, the Estate will have civil claims against his doctors, hospitals, etc. that it will have a duty to pursue. Sad.

really, grand juroes need to be convened, witnesses need to be called etc..they dont delay autop[sy reports for that

lwr001 said:

Here is a list of percocet withdrawal symptoms. Appetite chanes might explain his weight loss. Depression and suicidal thought could be the reason Prince was so melancholy at his most recent

shows. His staff said he was erratic which fits the anger and anxiety symptoms.

http://mentalhealthdaily....they-last/

• Abdominal cramps: One of the more notable symptoms that people report during withdrawal is cramping in the abdominal region. If you notice an intense stomach ache or cramp when you initially come off of this drug, just know that it’s part of the process.
• Anger: Don’t be surprised if you are prone to negative moods such as anger. When going through withdrawal, many people experience low moods and report feeling especially crabby. The longer you have been off of the drug, the more this should improve.
• Anxiety: Many individuals report high levels of anxiety when they stop this drug. The anxiety that you experience is somewhat a response of the nervous system. It had become accustomed to receiving the Percocet, which acted as a depressant with anxiolytic effects. Stopping the drug tends to produce the opposite effect of anxiety for awhile.
• Appetite changes: Some people lose their appetite during the acute phase of withdrawal. You may notice that your appetite is poor and food is difficult to eat. Take the time to make sure you are focusing on proper nutrition as this can help speed up healing.
• Chills: Feeling chills and other jitters is something that many have reported. This can be accompanied by sweats and possibly a fever. Chills are usually an acute symptom and shouldn’t last for more than a couple weeks.
• Concentration problems: You may find it very difficult to concentrate on any tasks including school or work-related functions. Many have reported that they feel as though they are in a trance-like state or have major brain fog; making it difficult to think clearly.
• Confusion: A combination of concentration problems and other symptoms may result in feeling general confusion. Usually this is a result of slowed cognition and mood symptoms that accompany withdrawal.
• Crying spells: Some people may become so depressed that they end up having crying spells. This isn’t to be confused with simply having “watery eyes” which is also a very common symptom of withdrawal.
• Depersonalization: If you feel unlike your normal self, this is referred to as being “depersonalized.” This is can be caused by abnormal neurotransmitter functioning, endorphin levels, and brain activity following discontinuation. Eventually you will slowly transition to feeling more normal.
• Depression: Most people report feeling mild or moderate depression when they stop Percocet. This is a drug that can provide some individuals with an initial mood boost. The endorphins that are released while on this drug can produce feelings of euphoria. When the drug is stopped, endorphin levels are lower than average, and it can take some time to feel decent again.
• Diarrhea: A lot of individuals experience constipation while taking Percocet. When they stop taking it, the exact opposite can occur, diarrhea. If you are struggling with this symptom, be sure to pick up some over-the-counter Imodium and consider giving it a shot.
• Dizziness: Feeling dizzy after your last dose? Some people experience an intense dizziness and/or vertigo sensations that seem to never go away. Although the dizziness can be tough to deal with initially, it will eventually fade.
• Fatigue: The fatigue associated with discontinuation can leave certain people bedridden until they regain some energy. Working a job, doing work around the house, or trying to stay productive can seem like an impossible feat. As your endorphin supply is rebuilt, your energy should improve.
• Fever: In the acute stage of withdrawal, some people get fevers. This is merely a physical reaction from your body to the detoxification process. After a few days of rest, your body temperature should gradually drop.
• Flu-like: Most individuals withdrawing from this drug feel like they’re dealing with the flu for the first week or so. This involves experiencing a fever, dizziness, headaches, nausea, and vomiting. It may seem like a wicked sickness, but you’ll recover.
• Goosebumps: Another common opiate withdrawal symptom is that of “goose bumps” or little bumps at the base of hair follicles on the skin. These are a physical withdrawal symptom that may seem somewhat unusual if you don’t know what to expect.
• Headaches: Some people experience mild headaches, while others have throbbing migraines. Percocet can actually provide headache relief and when it is stopped, you will likely experience some sort of headache. Do your best to stay hydrated, relaxed, and get plenty of rest to reduce the intensity of headaches.
• High blood pressure: In some cases, people notice that their blood pressure experiences a significant spike upon discontinuation. If you have had problems with hypertension in the past, you should consult a doctor to monitor it.
• Insomnia: While some people may have no difficulty falling asleep, many people experience a significant degree of insomnia. If you are unable to fall asleep, in part this may be due to neurotransmitter changes and/or anxiety associated with your experience. Consider taking melatonin and work towards relaxation via deep breathing and other exercises – this will help lower your arousal.
• Irritability: Some people find themselves feeling especially grumpy and every little thing makes them upset. If you are irritated with very insignificant things in your environment, this is likely mood related. As your body begins to relax again, your irritability should improve.
• Itchiness: Your skin may be very itchy when you stop this drug. Itchiness is thought to be an overreaction from a sensitive nervous system. Many people mistake the itchiness for a rash, when it’s usually caused by nerve fibers under the skin.
• Mood swings: One minute you may feel angry, the next severely depressed. Usually mood swings during withdrawal tend to be negative. Eventually though, positive moods will begin to breakthrough and your moods will stabilize; it just takes time.
• Muscle aches: Many people report muscle aches and pains when they stop Percocet. If you feel body aches, just know that it’s part of the process. You may cramp up, notice joint pain, etc. – this will eventually go away.
• Nausea: You may feel sick and very nauseated throughout the day. The nausea can be mild, but may be intense which could lead to vomiting. This shouldn’t last more than a week or two following your last dose.
• Palpitations: These are sensations that your heart is beating abnormally loud and/or racing. If you don’t know what to expect, you may think you are having a heart attack and/or this may lead to further anxiety.
• Panic attacks: If your anxiety reaches an extreme, you may be prone to experiencing panic attacks. These are incidents characterized as intense waves of anxiety that lead to panic. Just know that if you do not normally experience panic, it’s just part of withdrawal.
• Pupil dilation: Taking Percocet will constrict your pupils. When you come off of it, your pupils may be dilated and appear abnormally large. This is something to be aware of so that you don’t further panic.
• Restlessness: Some people feel restless and are unable to relax and sit still. It is usually fluctuations in arousal level from a sensitive nervous system that causes this symptom. Take the time to engage in some mild exercise and consider something relaxing like meditation to help offset this symptom.
• Runny nose: Your nose may run like a faucet during the initial stages of withdrawal. You may want to have some extra tissues around to deal with this problem.
• Sleep changes: You may notice that sometimes you sleep too much, while other times you cannot fall asleep. Your sleep cycle may get totally thrown for a loop during withdrawal. Don’t expect a perfect sleep cycle, but get sleep when you can. Eventually this will improve.
• Suicidal thinking: If depression gets bad enough, you may feel suicidal. Some people have such a difficult time coping with what they are experiencing that they become hopeless. If you feel hopeless and suicidal, seek professional help. Realize that your mood will eventually recover and that this is merely part of the withdrawal experience.
• Vomiting: Some people get so sick during withdrawal that they end up vomiting. This can be largely influenced by nausea and other flu-like symptoms. Most people will not be vomiting after the first week.
• Watery eyes: Your eyes may be full of water and you may catch yourself tearing up. This is normal to experience. Although it may be uncomfortable, you will eventually notice that your eyes stop dripping with water.
• Yawning: Do you notice yourself yawning even when you aren’t tired or bored? If you have a bad case of the yawns, it is likely related to withdrawal. Many people have noted that they cannot stop yawning even weeks after they’ve stopped the drug.

lwr001 said:

limoncello said:

We do not disagree although your 99.9 percent number is obviously wrong. By "well enough," I meant "stop the withdrawals." If you read the reports closely, it sounds like he was actually withdrawing, which leads to flu-like symptoms and worse. Actual physical withdrawals is the most dangerous time for overdosing.

An time you ween off of alcohol and or opiods iot should be dome under mediacl asupervision..as it is dangerous

Exactly. (again with the caveat, if this is all true) It's beginning to look pretty clear that he had weeded from his life everyone who could/would insist he do just that. If you look at other music stars who gone through rehab, they had long-standing bands, partners, friends, managers, etc, and those types of relationships add pressure to get clean safely.

limoncello said:

lwr001 said:

An time you ween off of alcohol and or opiods iot should be dome under mediacl asupervision..as it is dangerous

Exactly. (again with the caveat, if this is all true) It's beginning to look pretty clear that he had weeded from his life everyone who could/would insist he do just that. If you look at other music stars who gone through rehab, they had long-standing bands, partners, friends, managers, etc, and those types of relationships add pressure to get clean safely.

yep, and he went from 3EG to the band withj kirk, mono neon and donna to being solo...Begs the question as to why he wanted the solitary environment

And again the other medical issues get dismissed.

lrn36 said:

lrn36 said:

So he probably died anywhere from midnight to 3am. With his sleeping issue, I wonder if he was taking the elevator to go to his studio to record. It looks like his staff arranged some kind of invention with the doctor.

Or maybe he was done in the studio and was on his way to lie down? I've heard him comment about going to sleep around 5-6am. I'm wondering who they called in New York? It sounds like he'd gotten testy with Kirk and/or Meron and they may have been calling around, trying to find somebody that P would listen to. When they reached the attorney she called the addiction/pain clinic doctor.

It could have been a matter of a few hours.....