murph said:

Trickology said:

Because he doesn't want The Time to get attention for their project. He hates the fact that Morris Day continued the Time without him all these years. It's that simple because they grew out of Prince's vision but soon the group grew out of Prince's reach. In a sense I bet Prince sees it as his band w/out out his leadership at the helm. Having Terry and Jimmy back probably makes him angry as well. Just another jab in the eye. "Look we got em back for the reunion"

Prince is a dick for pulling this stunt....There's no other way to say it...But you are jumping into another world here...lol

Prince has allowed Morris to tour off the "Time" banner for decades...This is why him not allowing the Time to make a record with the Time name is so ass backwards....You already let the Time perform live with the name for years...Why not let them make an album?

it's not that simple. for one - in live shows, they are performing HIS material.

Here's an example setlist:

http://www.setlist.fm/set...09859.html

Out of all songs performed, only three weren't written by Prince - "Fishnet" and "Oak Tree", which were both Morris solo tracks, and "Skillet" from Pandemonium.

Business is business. Prince benefits from The Time's live performances because he gets performance royalties as the songwriter. There's mutual benefit there.

With a studio album that contains no involvement from Prince, there's no mutual benefit. So what, Prince is expected to just roll over and give up what he owns for no reason? That's crazy, and it would set a DANGEROUS precedent for all other people he's worked with in similar capacity.

89F said:

Simple: The Time without Prince's leadership is not The Time. They're all damn fine musicians who can (supposedly) do it without him: good for them, and I genuinely wish them luck. I'll probably buy the new album.

But they're not The Time... The Time was Prince's music, Prince's style, Prince's humour - just executed (albeit brilliantly) by 7 other people.

SoulAlive said:

Graycap23 said:

Then I don't understand your comments regarding the group. It was Prince's thing start 2 finish.

Should he have created it in some else's image?

I think he should have given them more control.Imagine if you were Jam or Lewis and you had these amazing songs and ideas,but you were forced to stay quiet,take orders and not contribute to the music in any way.That's not a good situation.

I haven't seen them come up with any 'amazing songs' for the group yet on their own. There's some good, fun things, but not anything earth-shattering.

Serena said:

SoulAlive said:

I think he should have given them more control.Imagine if you were Jam or Lewis and you had these amazing songs and ideas,but you were forced to stay quiet,take orders and not contribute to the music in any way.That's not a good situation.

I haven't seen them come up with any 'amazing songs' for the group yet on their own. There's some good, fun things, but not anything earth-shattering.

True,but not everything that Prince produces these days is earth-shattering,either.But that's not really important.I think if you're a musician,it's a good feeling to do music on your own terms,your own way,without someone else calling all the shots.

Serena said:

SoulAlive said:

I think he should have given them more control.Imagine if you were Jam or Lewis and you had these amazing songs and ideas,but you were forced to stay quiet,take orders and not contribute to the music in any way.That's not a good situation.

I haven't seen them come up with any 'amazing songs' for the group yet on their own. There's some good, fun things, but not anything earth-shattering.

Jam n Lewis have..and to a lot of folks, Jesse has been awesome. Ill venture to finally admit and relaize I enjoyed a liot of Jesses 80's stuff more than Princes post Rain releases. I was into Can You Help me, I Want My Girl more than most of ATWIAD..more into Crazy, Baby Lets Kiss..than..Kiss, and most of Parade back then, Every Shade Of Love was hitting me more than Lovesexy. But in retropsect, Princes output is less dated and gets 90% more airplay since.

Jam n Lewis met Princes output wuth their vast songwriting and production for other artists in the 80's imo. Only thing that kind of gave Prince the edge was that Jam n Lewis kind of stuck with that Flyte Tyme signature sound whereas Prince expanded his sound moreso imo.

Militant said:

murph said:

Prince is a dick for pulling this stunt....There's no other way to say it...But you are jumping into another world here...lol

Prince has allowed Morris to tour off the "Time" banner for decades...This is why him not allowing the Time to make a record with the Time name is so ass backwards....You already let the Time perform live with the name for years...Why not let them make an album?

it's not that simple. for one - in live shows, they are performing HIS material.

Here's an example setlist:

http://www.setlist.fm/set...09859.html

Out of all songs performed, only three weren't written by Prince - "Fishnet" and "Oak Tree", which were both Morris solo tracks, and "Skillet" from Pandemonium.

Business is business. Prince benefits from The Time's live performances because he gets performance royalties as the songwriter. There's mutual benefit there.

With a studio album that contains no involvement from Prince, there's no mutual benefit. So what, Prince is expected to just roll over and give up what he owns for no reason? That's crazy, and it would set a DANGEROUS precedent for all other people he's worked with in similar capacity.

This^^^^

Id be damned if I gave life to a group..told 'em how to talk AND WALK (see that lol), how to dress, and how to play certain songs live, how to keep in time, had them practice to death..AND admittedly say "yeah they were bad and kicked ouR azz i was afraid.." and have them try and say "we out and gonna take your creation and do it our way bye see ya.."..man fuck all that and yall know it. You guys cling to your dAMn atm cards, jalopy vehicles, smart phones etC. like yalls lives depend upon it but cry foul when Prince does the same with what is his in the first place.Pleaase gtfoohwtbs.

And one more notice regarding The Time "upstaging" Prince...Prince knowingly was setting himself up to be this harder to get into rock figure who was enigmatic and out there..while making The Time for folks to readily get into...he "wanted" it that way in some aspects regarding The Time being a hit and him being this struggling "artiste." Come on now.

or maybe he thought thwey were just going to be a carment elecktra/hoe of the year protegee that went nowhere?

I dont buy that

.

[Edited 9/16/11 8:43am]

Dsoul said:

Why tag a redundant "-ven" on the end of 7?

This is a legal issue. Prince would have to essentially sign the name and all rights thereof associated with the name. This would put in jeopardy the ownership status of existing material recorded under the name that Prince enjoys in perpetuity. I don't blame him one bit. There is no way I'd put that kind of loot and legacy in jeopardy.

Yeshua4all said:

This is a legal issue. Prince would have to essentially sign the name and all rights thereof associated with the name. This would put in jeopardy the ownership status of existing material recorded under the name that Prince enjoys in perpetuity. I don't blame him one bit. There is no way I'd put that kind of loot and legacy in jeopardy.

Seems some folks don't want 2 understand this basic FACT.

Yeshua4all said:

This is a legal issue. Prince would have to essentially sign the name and all rights thereof associated with the name. This would put in jeopardy the ownership status of existing material recorded under the name that Prince enjoys in perpetuity. I don't blame him one bit. There is no way I'd put that kind of loot and legacy in jeopardy.

copy...print...save

didn't they release their album?

Militant said:

murph said:

Prince is a dick for pulling this stunt....There's no other way to say it...But you are jumping into another world here...lol

Prince has allowed Morris to tour off the "Time" banner for decades...This is why him not allowing the Time to make a record with the Time name is so ass backwards....You already let the Time perform live with the name for years...Why not let them make an album?

it's not that simple. for one - in live shows, they are performing HIS material.

Here's an example setlist:

http://www.setlist.fm/set...09859.html

Out of all songs performed, only three weren't written by Prince - "Fishnet" and "Oak Tree", which were both Morris solo tracks, and "Skillet" from Pandemonium.

Business is business. Prince benefits from The Time's live performances because he gets performance royalties as the songwriter. There's mutual benefit there.

With a studio album that contains no involvement from Prince, there's no mutual benefit. So what, Prince is expected to just roll over and give up what he owns for no reason? That's crazy, and it would set a DANGEROUS precedent for all other people he's worked with in similar capacity.

It's a dick move either way....No one is banging on any doors for a new Time album...In fact, the guys had even reached out to Prince to get involved in the album, yet he turned them down...

So yeah, I understand where you are coming from in terms of the business component...But it aint THAT serious....

Yeshua4all said:

This is a legal issue. Prince would have to essentially sign the name and all rights thereof associated with the name. This would put in jeopardy the ownership status of existing material recorded under the name that Prince enjoys in perpetuity. I don't blame him one bit. There is no way I'd put that kind of loot and legacy in jeopardy.

The Monkees still tour under that name and also released an album awhile back as "The Monkees". I think Rhino owns the name and not the group. So Prince can let the guys use "The Time" if he wants to.

[Edited 9/16/11 11:31am]

As I recall, when the manager of fDeluxe came on here, he said that Prince had raised the possibility of reissuing the original album by The Family, but he (the fDeluxe manager) would insist that "all contracts were signed" before going forward:

http://prince.org/msg/5/359443

I can't say for sure, but I would guess that Prince's management and attorneys (if not Prince himself) would be happy to let The Time, The Family, etc., go out and tour under their original names if they all agreed in writing that Prince has the rights to all the music that was recorded under those names in the 1980s. But they don't want to do that for obvious reasons. In other words, I suspect this is all part of the negotiations over what happens to Prince's back catalog and the back catalog of the associated artists. Can't prove that, of course, because I'm not involved with those negotiations.

[Edited 9/16/11 11:23am]

At this point, with all the bullshit with The Family and The time, I hope Prince re-releases the albums with his own voice and bury the original recording for the collectors that have them.

The word opportunistic comes to mind especially for The Family. I just re-read that asses statement again from F-deluxe and sheer assholeness of it pisses me off.

Re-release them as Prince albums as The Time and The Family with none of their vocals or images and put end end to this mess.

V10LETBLUES said:

At this point, with all the bullshit with The Family and The time, I hope Prince re-releases the albums with his own voice and bury the original recording for the collectors that have them.

The word opportunistic comes to mind especially for The Family. I just re-read that asses statement again from F-deluxe and sheer assholeness of it pisses me off.

Re-release them as Prince albums as The Time and The Family with none of their vocals or images and put end end to this mess.

Hmmm... I'm not sure I want three or four albums of Prince singing over The Time backing tracks in his "Cloreen Baconskin" voice.

I think this stuff will be worked out eventually. There's a lot of posturing going on in the meantime.

electricberet said:

V10LETBLUES said:

At this point, with all the bullshit with The Family and The time, I hope Prince re-releases the albums with his own voice and bury the original recording for the collectors that have them.

The word opportunistic comes to mind especially for The Family. I just re-read that asses statement again from F-deluxe and sheer assholeness of it pisses me off.

Re-release them as Prince albums as The Time and The Family with none of their vocals or images and put end end to this mess.

Hmmm... I'm not sure I want three or four albums of Prince singing over The Time backing tracks in his "Cloreen Baconskin" voice.

I think this stuff will be worked out eventually. There's a lot of posturing going on in the meantime.

I think A LOT of fans are curious to hear what the original songs sounded before being handed over for the addition of the various voices. Morris's swagger may be missed, but I do not think anyone will upset at the elimination of St. Pauls vocals.

[Edited 9/16/11 12:12pm]

V10LETBLUES said:

electricberet said:

Hmmm... I'm not sure I want three or four albums of Prince singing over The Time backing tracks in his "Cloreen Baconskin" voice.

I think this stuff will be worked out eventually. There's a lot of posturing going on in the meantime.

I think A LOT of fans are curious to hear what the originals songs sounded before being handed over for the addition of the various voices. Morris's swagger may be missed, but I do not think anyone will upset at the elimination of St. Pauls vocals.

The original versions with Prince's vocals would be great bonus tracks to have on deluxe editions along with remasters of the released versions. Not that we're likely to ever see something like that.

We've all heard Prince sing "Nothing Compares 2 U." I prefer the original.

rdhull said:

Serena said:

I haven't seen them come up with any 'amazing songs' for the group yet on their own. There's some good, fun things, but not anything earth-shattering.

Jam n Lewis have..and to a lot of folks, Jesse has been awesome. Ill venture to finally admit and relaize I enjoyed a liot of Jesses 80's stuff more than Princes post Rain releases. I was into Can You Help me, I Want My Girl more than most of ATWIAD..more into Crazy, Baby Lets Kiss..than..Kiss, and most of Parade back then, Every Shade Of Love was hitting me more than Lovesexy. But in retropsect, Princes output is less dated and gets 90% more airplay since.

Jam n Lewis met Princes output wuth their vast songwriting and production for other artists in the 80's imo. Only thing that kind of gave Prince the edge was that Jam n Lewis kind of stuck with that Flyte Tyme signature sound whereas Prince expanded his sound moreso imo.

Hey RD! I get that, but I was talking about music they've done as The Time, not separate projects.

Graycap23 said:

Yeshua4all said:

This is a legal issue. Prince would have to essentially sign the name and all rights thereof associated with the name. This would put in jeopardy the ownership status of existing material recorded under the name that Prince enjoys in perpetuity. I don't blame him one bit. There is no way I'd put that kind of loot and legacy in jeopardy.

Seems some folks don't want 2 understand this basic FACT.

I know and people keep ignoring that fact & just want to say that Prince is a jerk.

Like I said earlier, think Lucas would let an actor take the Star Wars franchise & do stuff on their own under that umbrella?

murph said:

Militant said:

it's not that simple. for one - in live shows, they are performing HIS material.

Here's an example setlist:

http://www.setlist.fm/set...09859.html

Out of all songs performed, only three weren't written by Prince - "Fishnet" and "Oak Tree", which were both Morris solo tracks, and "Skillet" from Pandemonium.

Business is business. Prince benefits from The Time's live performances because he gets performance royalties as the songwriter. There's mutual benefit there.

With a studio album that contains no involvement from Prince, there's no mutual benefit. So what, Prince is expected to just roll over and give up what he owns for no reason? That's crazy, and it would set a DANGEROUS precedent for all other people he's worked with in similar capacity.

It's a dick move either way....No one is banging on any doors for a new Time album...In fact, the guys had even reached out to Prince to get involved in the album, yet he turned them down...

So yeah, I understand where you are coming from in terms of the business component...But it aint THAT serious....

It's isn't a dick move, it's a business move. Of course you don't think it's serious because it's not your product. Just because they wanted him to get involved and he didn't want to go there doesn't mean crap except that he chose not to do it for whatever reason(s).

Serena said:

Graycap23 said:

Seems some folks don't want 2 understand this basic FACT.

I know and people keep ignoring that fact & just want to say that Prince is a jerk.

Like I said earlier, think Lucas would let an actor take the Star Wars franchise & do stuff on their own under that umbrella?

The Lucas analogy is perfect. Sometimes it seems people have a quota of things to get upset about.

V10LETBLUES said:

electricberet said:

Hmmm... I'm not sure I want three or four albums of Prince singing over The Time backing tracks in his "Cloreen Baconskin" voice.

I think this stuff will be worked out eventually. There's a lot of posturing going on in the meantime.

I think A LOT of fans are curious to hear what the original songs sounded before being handed over for the addition of the various voices. Morris's swagger may be missed, but I do not think anyone will upset at the elimination of St. Pauls vocals.

[Edited 9/16/11 12:12pm]

I would LOVE to hear Prince's recordings of all this stuff and I agree on St.Paul's vocals, blah to me. I get a kick out of Prince playing characters, so I love stuff like Cloreen. It's not like Morris has a great voice either, it's more the character that's entertaining.

Serena said:

V10LETBLUES said:

I think A LOT of fans are curious to hear what the original songs sounded before being handed over for the addition of the various voices. Morris's swagger may be missed, but I do not think anyone will upset at the elimination of St. Pauls vocals.

[Edited 9/16/11 12:12pm]

I would LOVE to hear Prince's recordings of all this stuff and I agree on St.Paul's vocals, blah to me. I get a kick out of Prince playing characters, so I love stuff like Cloreen. It's not like Morris has a great voice either, it's more the character that's entertaining.

You me and everyone else here.

I love that Prince is reclaiming his music in concert. People hear a lot of these great songs by the various "groups" he gave them to and have no idea that they are Prince songs in every sense of the word. I really hope that Prince reclaims them, re-issues the originals sans the tacked-on vocals by the various people over the time.

I think more people would be drawn in by a Prince album than by a The Family album or The Time album. It would be a great document to set things straight, and the die-hards would eat it up.

[Edited 9/16/11 14:14pm]

Serena said:

rdhull said:

Jam n Lewis have..and to a lot of folks, Jesse has been awesome. Ill venture to finally admit and relaize I enjoyed a liot of Jesses 80's stuff more than Princes post Rain releases. I was into Can You Help me, I Want My Girl more than most of ATWIAD..more into Crazy, Baby Lets Kiss..than..Kiss, and most of Parade back then, Every Shade Of Love was hitting me more than Lovesexy. But in retropsect, Princes output is less dated and gets 90% more airplay since.

Jam n Lewis met Princes output wuth their vast songwriting and production for other artists in the 80's imo. Only thing that kind of gave Prince the edge was that Jam n Lewis kind of stuck with that Flyte Tyme signature sound whereas Prince expanded his sound moreso imo.

Hey RD! I get that, but I was talking about music they've done as The Time, not separate projects.

Oh! I hear ya. Whats up D?

.

[Edited 9/16/11 14:41pm]

Serena said:

Graycap23 said:

Seems some folks don't want 2 understand this basic FACT.

I know and people keep ignoring that fact & just want to say that Prince is a jerk.

Like I said earlier, think Lucas would let an actor take the Star Wars franchise & do stuff on their own under that umbrella?

preach that shit

copy , print, and save

church says amen

truth.com

teach the children like Marvyn said

co-sign

co-siggity

aka..I agree with what you just said

NDRU said:

It may just be business, Prince's point may be legitimate, but if the shoe was on the other foot, it's exactly the kind of thing Prince would complain about--CONtrol CONtracts etc the Time is just a band, why should Prince care if they do a new album? The more they work, it just boosts attention on the old material and puts $$$ into Prince's pockets

We are not talkig hypotheticals.

besides thats exactly what Prince DID do. He was caught up with WB and changed his gat damned name to a symbol and recorded under that lol

Prince was complaining about unfair contracts not simple everyday contracts

rdhull said:

NDRU said:

It may just be business, Prince's point may be legitimate, but if the shoe was on the other foot, it's exactly the kind of thing Prince would complain about--CONtrol CONtracts etc the Time is just a band, why should Prince care if they do a new album? The more they work, it just boosts attention on the old material and puts $$$ into Prince's pockets

We are not talkig hypotheticals.

besides thats exactly what Prince DID do. He was caught up with WB and changed his gat damned name to a symbol and recorded under that lol

Prince was complaining about unfair contracts not simple everyday contracts

good point, though still that would make him WB to the Time, and he seems to be as willing to be that as WB was to him

Graycap23 said:

Yeshua4all said:

This is a legal issue. Prince would have to essentially sign the name and all rights thereof associated with the name. This would put in jeopardy the ownership status of existing material recorded under the name that Prince enjoys in perpetuity. I don't blame him one bit. There is no way I'd put that kind of loot and legacy in jeopardy.

Seems some folks don't want 2 understand this basic FACT.

Yeah plus Prince did create The Time in the first place.