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Thread started 05/08/09 12:59pm

dannyd5050

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Purple Drain: Is It Time To Give Up On The Prince We All Want?

http://new.music.yahoo.co...-all-want/

Purple Drain: Is It Time To Give Up On The Prince We All Want?
Posted Thu May 7, 2009 11:10am PDT by Paul Yamada in Rock's Backpages

Paul Yamada on two more pointless chapters in the slow-death decline of a once-mighty talent.--Barney Hoskyns, Editorial Director, Rock's Backpages



On the final Sunday of March, Prince released a three-CD set. Two of the albums are his music with his band; the other is by a young female singer, Bria Valente. He appeared on Jay Leno's Tonight Show the preceding Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday to promote the package, which at present is only available at Target.

The CD entitled lotusflow3r is a pastiche of slightly hard rock, proggy, Hendrix-influenced guitar playing, familiar pop-rock, and powerpop. It certainly does not herald any new or different aspirations, and though it has an up-to-date production and "finish" to the sound and production quality, this recording may very well remind his longtime fans of Purple Rain. Or at least Purple Rain without anything as exciting as "When Doves Cry," or the more surging, ecstatic moments of "Let's Go Crazy."

While the contents are polished and well-played, and for the most part easy to listen to, this music makes me wonder if there is a marketing and audience grab involved, and if so, how many fans or former fans will bite? I also wonder if other listeners will respond like I did, and think that Prince didn't have to work very hard to make this record.

Purple Rain was a hit a long time ago--25 years?--and the crossover audience and crowds he drew began to thin out by the time he released "Alphabet Street," or at least that is how I've perceived the trajectory of his career over the past 20-plus years.

The other CD, mplsound, is more disappointing. It does not impress either as (funky) dance music or as pleasant R&B. It is actually kind of boring, which seems quite a damning thing to ascribe to music by Prince. BORING.

Is there still an audience for Prince the rocker, the guitar hero who seems bound to remind us that he can ape Jimi Hendrix? What happened to the Prince who made riveting soul, funk, and jazz-tinged R&B records? What happened to the funky, slinky, jazzy Prince on guitar? He showed some of that stripped-down flash at the end of his third night on Leno: crisp, clean, funky, chicken-fried licks, delivered with an old-fashioned, lean-and-mean tone, a tone you might hear a "jazz guitarist" using in an organ (B3) and sax trio or quartet. Now, this is the Prince I'm always excited about: a guitarist who can not only evoke the best aspects of funk and soul from 1966 to 1976, but who could also be the axeman in that B3 group, and burn it down like maybe no one else could but Melvin Sparks, or Rodney Jones, having a particularly fine night. There are moments of this evocative guitar playing IN THE BACKGROUND of tracks on mplsound, but nothing more.

Most of the lead guitar Prince plays on both discs is the "over-the-top-Hendrix"-sounding stuff, with lots of boost and sustain, and very little old-fashioned dirt, like it all comes from a pedal or a computer setting. Where has the invention and the lean, probing, rhythmic drive gone?

Now that I've mentioned rhythmic drive, where has that gone? To assembly line "church," since the drums and bass playing on these discs often resembles what gets churned out on commercial, run-of-the-mill, jubilee gospel recordings: little or no variation, no substitutions, no drive, and certainly no playing that can push a guitarist, much less interact with the playing. In sustaining some energy level, the rhythm tracks relate to the hum-drum, same-ole same-ole you can hear jumping from Christian channel to Christian channel on Saturday night or early Sunday morning: NOW AIN'T THAT GOOD NEWS?!

No, because there's more going on between the bass pedals of the organ player and drummer on a Davis Sisters 45 on Savoy than there is on both of these Prince CDs, as far as bass and drums goes. If this is "give up the funk," I'd rather listen to Denise LaSalle file her nails, because that would be some scratchy rhythm!

Now that's enough with the complaints because they beg the question; as long as Prince isn't going to push the soul-funk envelope, embracing the tradition--now that he is 50--is not such a bad idea. Can you imagine what it would be like if he strapped on that sky-blue Stratocaster--or better still, a Gibson Super 400--and opened with 10 minutes of Johnnie Taylor's "Little Bluebird"? And then continued in that fashion with a workout of Taylor's "Jody," in different tempo? Yeah, and he's got a four-piece horn section along with B3, bass, and drums. After "Jody" he's really hot and slams into "Sexy MF." Then a souped-up version of "Chelsea Rodgers," a stunning version of "She Loves Me 4 Me," which showcases his "soul guitar" playing, and he wraps it up with a pumping, over-the-top rendition of "1+1+1 is 3."

Yeah, it wouldn't be an hour-long set, but it would be a great one. At present, I don't think anything like this will ever happen, as Prince has kind of become enigmatic and perhaps unconscious. He needs to realize that his old music is still great, especially the increasingly funky and soulful material he has laid down beginning with Sign O' The Times through the recent Planet Earth--though some of what he's done since Rave Un2 The Dawn is cliché and ballast--embrace it, and embrace not just the tradition he clearly understands and cares about, but use it to push the envelope in new and different ways, establishing him as a funk and soul man that could blow away most of the retro "revues" that are out there playing for kids who think you can get good chicken-fried steak at Boston Market, or worse, who think that the expression "bone fish" is really a Fishbone EP they've never heard.

It really isn't worth continuing to dream, or pick at these two Prince CDs. He's not going to do that amazing "Jody" workout. He's not going to give up doing lazy, goopy-sounding, '"quiet storm-like" tunes that even Donny Hathaway couldn't have re-arranged into anything worth listening to. If you have most, or all of Prince's recordings, like I do, go ahead and buy it. I think you will agree that Planet Earth is much, MUCH better, and much less confused, less familiar and trite, by the man's own "standards," so to speak. I'd say the same for a chunk of Rainbow Children. So buy it, if you will; and if you do like it, please go on to discover some of his better music from this decade.

Read dozens more Prince interviews and reviews at www.rocksbackpages.com. Over 14,000 articles by the greatest writers from the finest rock publications of the last 40 years.
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Reply #1 posted 05/08/09 1:07pm

npggirl77

dannyd5050 said:

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/rocksbackpages/9319/purple-drain-is-it-time-to-give-up-on-the-prince-we-all-want/

Purple Drain: Is It Time To Give Up On The Prince We All Want?
Posted Thu May 7, 2009 11:10am PDT by Paul Yamada in Rock's Backpages

Paul Yamada on two more pointless chapters in the slow-death decline of a once-mighty talent.--Barney Hoskyns, Editorial Director, Rock's Backpages



On the final Sunday of March, Prince released a three-CD set. Two of the albums are his music with his band; the other is by a young female singer, Bria Valente. He appeared on Jay Leno's Tonight Show the preceding Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday to promote the package, which at present is only available at Target.

The CD entitled lotusflow3r is a pastiche of slightly hard rock, proggy, Hendrix-influenced guitar playing, familiar pop-rock, and powerpop. It certainly does not herald any new or different aspirations, and though it has an up-to-date production and "finish" to the sound and production quality, this recording may very well remind his longtime fans of Purple Rain. Or at least Purple Rain without anything as exciting as "When Doves Cry," or the more surging, ecstatic moments of "Let's Go Crazy."

While the contents are polished and well-played, and for the most part easy to listen to, this music makes me wonder if there is a marketing and audience grab involved, and if so, how many fans or former fans will bite? I also wonder if other listeners will respond like I did, and think that Prince didn't have to work very hard to make this record.

Purple Rain was a hit a long time ago--25 years?--and the crossover audience and crowds he drew began to thin out by the time he released "Alphabet Street," or at least that is how I've perceived the trajectory of his career over the past 20-plus years.

The other CD, mplsound, is more disappointing. It does not impress either as (funky) dance music or as pleasant R&B. It is actually kind of boring, which seems quite a damning thing to ascribe to music by Prince. BORING.

Is there still an audience for Prince the rocker, the guitar hero who seems bound to remind us that he can ape Jimi Hendrix? What happened to the Prince who made riveting soul, funk, and jazz-tinged R&B records? What happened to the funky, slinky, jazzy Prince on guitar? He showed some of that stripped-down flash at the end of his third night on Leno: crisp, clean, funky, chicken-fried licks, delivered with an old-fashioned, lean-and-mean tone, a tone you might hear a "jazz guitarist" using in an organ (B3) and sax trio or quartet. Now, this is the Prince I'm always excited about: a guitarist who can not only evoke the best aspects of funk and soul from 1966 to 1976, but who could also be the axeman in that B3 group, and burn it down like maybe no one else could but Melvin Sparks, or Rodney Jones, having a particularly fine night. There are moments of this evocative guitar playing IN THE BACKGROUND of tracks on mplsound, but nothing more.

Most of the lead guitar Prince plays on both discs is the "over-the-top-Hendrix"-sounding stuff, with lots of boost and sustain, and very little old-fashioned dirt, like it all comes from a pedal or a computer setting. Where has the invention and the lean, probing, rhythmic drive gone?

Now that I've mentioned rhythmic drive, where has that gone? To assembly line "church," since the drums and bass playing on these discs often resembles what gets churned out on commercial, run-of-the-mill, jubilee gospel recordings: little or no variation, no substitutions, no drive, and certainly no playing that can push a guitarist, much less interact with the playing. In sustaining some energy level, the rhythm tracks relate to the hum-drum, same-ole same-ole you can hear jumping from Christian channel to Christian channel on Saturday night or early Sunday morning: NOW AIN'T THAT GOOD NEWS?!

No, because there's more going on between the bass pedals of the organ player and drummer on a Davis Sisters 45 on Savoy than there is on both of these Prince CDs, as far as bass and drums goes. If this is "give up the funk," I'd rather listen to Denise LaSalle file her nails, because that would be some scratchy rhythm!

Now that's enough with the complaints because they beg the question; as long as Prince isn't going to push the soul-funk envelope, embracing the tradition--now that he is 50--is not such a bad idea. Can you imagine what it would be like if he strapped on that sky-blue Stratocaster--or better still, a Gibson Super 400--and opened with 10 minutes of Johnnie Taylor's "Little Bluebird"? And then continued in that fashion with a workout of Taylor's "Jody," in different tempo? Yeah, and he's got a four-piece horn section along with B3, bass, and drums. After "Jody" he's really hot and slams into "Sexy MF." Then a souped-up version of "Chelsea Rodgers," a stunning version of "She Loves Me 4 Me," which showcases his "soul guitar" playing, and he wraps it up with a pumping, over-the-top rendition of "1+1+1 is 3."

Yeah, it wouldn't be an hour-long set, but it would be a great one. At present, I don't think anything like this will ever happen, as Prince has kind of become enigmatic and perhaps unconscious. He needs to realize that his old music is still great, especially the increasingly funky and soulful material he has laid down beginning with Sign O' The Times through the recent Planet Earth--though some of what he's done since Rave Un2 The Dawn is cliché and ballast--embrace it, and embrace not just the tradition he clearly understands and cares about, but use it to push the envelope in new and different ways, establishing him as a funk and soul man that could blow away most of the retro "revues" that are out there playing for kids who think you can get good chicken-fried steak at Boston Market, or worse, who think that the expression "bone fish" is really a Fishbone EP they've never heard.

It really isn't worth continuing to dream, or pick at these two Prince CDs. He's not going to do that amazing "Jody" workout. He's not going to give up doing lazy, goopy-sounding, '"quiet storm-like" tunes that even Donny Hathaway couldn't have re-arranged into anything worth listening to. If you have most, or all of Prince's recordings, like I do, go ahead and buy it. I think you will agree that Planet Earth is much, MUCH better, and much less confused, less familiar and trite, by the man's own "standards," so to speak. I'd say the same for a chunk of Rainbow Children. So buy it, if you will; and if you do like it, please go on to discover some of his better music from this decade.

Read dozens more Prince interviews and reviews at www.rocksbackpages.com. Over 14,000 articles by the greatest writers from the finest rock publications of the last 40 years.


Just saw this pop up on Yahoo!
And I am trippin' on the fact that the writer states that Planet Earth is MUCH better than these cd's...
Where PE had some great tunes on it, I think these cd's blow PE out of the water...but again, it is all about opinion and different strokes for different folks! The sooner "writers" realize that, the better off we will all be IMO.
[Edited 5/8/09 13:18pm]
-you ain't funky at all, you just a little ol' prude!
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Reply #2 posted 05/08/09 1:11pm

Milty

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what's this guy's problem?
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Reply #3 posted 05/08/09 1:12pm

HatrinaHaterwi
tz

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Oh snap! It's gonna be a long night! falloff

I'll be back...I just need to get some provisions! lol
I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart.
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Reply #4 posted 05/08/09 1:14pm

funkteer

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.
[Edited 5/8/09 13:16pm]
"It's hard 4 me 2 say what's right when all I want to do is wrong..."
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Reply #5 posted 05/08/09 1:14pm

jethrouk

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i don’t get the stuff about prince not playing any of his 'old stuff' that is all prince ever does. i wish he would play something new for a change. those three recent gigs were just prince plays the hits. admittedly with a few surprises.

he continues to moan, about something (i am not really sure what it is). not being soulful or something. and then describes his ideal gig, which includes chelsea rodgers. i am confused confused

only thing i agree is that i liked the guitar work in the feel good, feel wonderful on leno. i think that is what he was alluding to.
[Edited 5/8/09 13:22pm]
"Sisters and brothers in the purple underground, find peace of mind in the pop sound!"
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Reply #6 posted 05/08/09 1:15pm

emile58

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popcorn
[Edited 5/8/09 22:13pm]
stoned That's some good shit!
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Reply #7 posted 05/08/09 1:17pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Oh snap! It's gonna be a long night! falloff

I'll be back...I just need to get some provisions! lol

Stockpiles are in the back lol
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #8 posted 05/08/09 1:18pm

emesem

Not too far from the truth.
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Reply #9 posted 05/08/09 1:21pm

TwiliteKid

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Milty said:

what's this guy's problem?


What makes you say he has a problem? Despite an overemphasis on the musicianship at the expense of much focus on the songs themselves (though I think you could argue Prince has been doing the same thing when he records these days), I think it's a fairly well-reasoned review.
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Reply #10 posted 05/08/09 1:31pm

rstokey2

I really have to listen to LOTUSFLOW3R again but it seems this guy wants some of the funk Prince and co. portrayed on NEWS and Musicology. Can't blame him.
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Reply #11 posted 05/08/09 1:46pm

NDRU

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These negative reviews are not surprising. I understand them. I might have given one myself years ago. I used to pine away for what I wished Prince would do, but have found it much more enjoyable and much less disappointing to just listen to what he does do, which is a lot. Not always what I wish for, but there's always something to hold my interest.

But this title says a lot. Yes, it's time to give up on the Prince we all want because we can't even agree on which Prince we want!

But wishing Prince would do the dance you pick for him to do is a waste of time. If I want AC/DC I can listen to them rather than wish Prince would do Back in Black. If I want P-Funk I can listen to them. If I want old Prince I can listen to him.
[Edited 5/8/09 13:48pm]
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Reply #12 posted 05/08/09 1:54pm

PigSkin

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the writer is obviously a prince fan highly influenced by a lot of the talk going on here.

secondly, no matter what prince does, he will never be able to satisfy every1 who actually think that they know how to be prince better than he himself does
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Reply #13 posted 05/08/09 1:57pm

purplecam

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Oh Jesus, I feel another 22 page thread coming upon us.
I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that
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Reply #14 posted 05/08/09 2:00pm

wonder505

this is actually a well written review and the writer gave some thought on it, but gosh, i am so glad i'm not apart of the fanbase who are so dissappointed about his current output. that must suck. the Lotus CD and many of his new tracks are still enjoyable for me and together with his old stuff, its all good. cool
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Reply #15 posted 05/08/09 2:02pm

wonder505

purplecam said:

Oh Jesus, I feel another 22 page thread coming upon us.


i know right. lol
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Reply #16 posted 05/08/09 2:02pm

HatrinaHaterwi
tz

avatar

PigSkin said:

the writer is obviously a prince fan highly influenced by a lot of the talk going on here.

secondly, no matter what prince does, he will never be able to satisfy every1 who actually think that they know how to be prince better than he himself does


Are you blaming the Org because someone, somewhere else said Prince's new music isn't up to par? You cannot be fucking serious!

Did it ever occur to you, that maybe...just maybe there are people outside of the Org that can express their honest feelings regarding Prince's current work and it not be all glowing and kiss-assery?
[Edited 5/8/09 14:06pm]
I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart.
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Reply #17 posted 05/08/09 2:03pm

coltrane3

I do have the Prince I want, and I say that as someone who isn't that passionate about his output since 2000 (except for a handful of songs).

He's an artist. He has a massive catalog. Be happy with the stuff you love. Everything else is just icing in my opinion. If he never comes out with a song or album that I like as much as past song or album, so be it.
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Reply #18 posted 05/08/09 2:04pm

wonder505

NDRU said:

These negative reviews are not surprising. I understand them. I might have given one myself years ago. I used to pine away for what I wished Prince would do, but have found it much more enjoyable and much less disappointing to just listen to what he does do, which is a lot. Not always what I wish for, but there's always something to hold my interest.

But this title says a lot. Yes, it's time to give up on the Prince we all want because we can't even agree on which Prince we want!

But wishing Prince would do the dance you pick for him to do is a waste of time. If I want AC/DC I can listen to them rather than wish Prince would do Back in Black. If I want P-Funk I can listen to them. If I want old Prince I can listen to him.
[Edited 5/8/09 13:48pm]



I still find these types of reviews quite normal for all artists with long term careers. nobody stays great forever. but somehow Prince is the exception. shrug
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Reply #19 posted 05/08/09 2:06pm

toejam

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npggirl77 said:

Just saw this pop up on Yahoo! And I am trippin' on the fact that the writer states that Planet Earth is MUCH better than these cd's...


Yep. This critic lost all credibility in my eyes after I read that line.
Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
Toejam the solo artist: http://www.youtube.com/scottbignell
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Reply #20 posted 05/08/09 2:07pm

NDRU

avatar

wonder505 said:

NDRU said:

These negative reviews are not surprising. I understand them. I might have given one myself years ago. I used to pine away for what I wished Prince would do, but have found it much more enjoyable and much less disappointing to just listen to what he does do, which is a lot. Not always what I wish for, but there's always something to hold my interest.

But this title says a lot. Yes, it's time to give up on the Prince we all want because we can't even agree on which Prince we want!

But wishing Prince would do the dance you pick for him to do is a waste of time. If I want AC/DC I can listen to them rather than wish Prince would do Back in Black. If I want P-Funk I can listen to them. If I want old Prince I can listen to him.
[Edited 5/8/09 13:48pm]



I still find these types of reviews quite normal for all artists with long term careers. nobody stays great forever. but somehow Prince is the exception. shrug


He's an exception in that he can't be pinned down to one specific style. For each fan that wants him to do a rock album, there's one that wants him to do a funk album, and electronic album, an R&B album, a jazz album, or something that's just weird.

It's much easier to know what we would all like Metallica to do.
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Reply #21 posted 05/08/09 2:10pm

npggirl77

[quote]

NDRU said:

These negative reviews are not surprising. I understand them. I might have given one myself years ago. I used to pine away for what I wished Prince would do, but have found it much more enjoyable and much less disappointing to just listen to what he does do, which is a lot. Not always what I wish for, but there's always something to hold my interest.

But this title says a lot. Yes, it's time to give up on the Prince we all want because we can't even agree on which Prince we want!


Exactly!! Prince satisfied such a variety of wishes with his diverse styles of music, that he cannot please everyone these days. Some people want more rock prince, some people want more R&B Prince...(and so on)
Some people are still so stuck on the music he put our 15 or more years ago, that they cannot seem to go past it! I do not understand that at all. All of the music from those years sounded different than todays music.
Yes, his older music was off the charts! But to me, his newer music is still off the charts in a different way/sound!
[Edited 5/8/09 14:11pm]
-you ain't funky at all, you just a little ol' prude!
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Reply #22 posted 05/08/09 2:12pm

HatrinaHaterwi
tz

avatar

I think the guy made some pretty valid points, myself. Several actually but he did kind of loose points though with the Rave Un2 The Dawn and Planet Earth snafus but he made up for that right here:

He's not going to give up doing lazy, goopy-sounding, '"quiet storm-like" tunes that even Donny Hathaway couldn't have re-arranged into anything worth listening to.


That was so brutally honest, it hurt my damn feelings! lol
I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart.
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Reply #23 posted 05/08/09 2:13pm

JayJai

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PigSkin said:

the writer is obviously a prince fan highly influenced by a lot of the talk going on here.

secondly, no matter what prince does, he will never be able to satisfy every1 who actually think that they know how to be prince better than he himself does


nod thumbs up! nod thumbs up! nod
That's it right there!
and thirdly, if one don't like the new music, just stick to the old ones that work for you.
Simple...problem solved thumbs up!
I swear the words "HATER" is wayyy over-rated...smh
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Reply #24 posted 05/08/09 2:14pm

npggirl77

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I think the guy made some pretty valid points, myself. Several actually but he did kind of loose points though with the Rave Un2 The Dawn and Planet Earth snafus but he made up for that right here:

He's not going to give up doing lazy, goopy-sounding, '"quiet storm-like" tunes that even Donny Hathaway couldn't have re-arranged into anything worth listening to.


That was so brutally honest, it hurt my damn feelings! lol

I cannot honestly point out one song on either of the latest albums that sound lazy or "goopy-sounding".
-you ain't funky at all, you just a little ol' prude!
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Reply #25 posted 05/08/09 2:16pm

ScrotoplasmicS
permisol

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lol lol lol
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Reply #26 posted 05/08/09 2:20pm

squirrelgrease

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toejam said:

npggirl77 said:

Just saw this pop up on Yahoo! And I am trippin' on the fact that the writer states that Planet Earth is MUCH better than these cd's...


Yep. This critic lost all credibility in my eyes after I read that line.


Co-Sign.
If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot.
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Reply #27 posted 05/08/09 2:20pm

Nothinbutjoy

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HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Oh snap! It's gonna be a long night! falloff

I'll be back...I just need to get some provisions! lol



WRONG!!! Funny, but WRONG!!

spit

rose
I'm firmly planted in denial
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Reply #28 posted 05/08/09 2:25pm

HatrinaHaterwi
tz

avatar

npggirl77 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I think the guy made some pretty valid points, myself. Several actually but he did kind of loose points though with the Rave Un2 The Dawn and Planet Earth snafus but he made up for that right here:



That was so brutally honest, it hurt my damn feelings! lol

I cannot honestly point out one song on either of the latest albums that sound lazy or "goopy-sounding".


I don't know which ones the writer meant but if I had to venture a guess...

Elixer- ALL of it!

LotusFlow3r - From the Lotus, The Morning After, Love Like Jazz, Back to the Lotus

MPLS - Here, Valentina, Better With Time
I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart.
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Reply #29 posted 05/08/09 2:32pm

psychodelicide

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Just saw this on Yahoo.com. Was going to post it here on the org, but I see somebody beat me to it. doh! lol
RIP, mom. I will forever miss and love you.
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