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Printablegubbins4ever said: There have been three types of response to this thread which have been both prevalent and poor contributions to the dialogue. They are along the lines of:-
1. "Target's practices have nothing to do with Prince". Target's practices now do have something to do with Prince. By selling his product in Target's stores, he is supporting the corporation and its practices. 2. "Stop wasting your time hating on Prince. Go somewhere else if you are unhappy with what he does." This evasive response does not address the arguments contained in this thread. 3. "The kind of practices in which Target engages are prevalent across the industry." This point is weak. The prevalence is a practice is unrelated to whether or not such a practice is moral. so when we angrily storm prince's house, i'm guessing it would be a faux pas for us to buy our torches and pitchforks at target's home gardening center, huh?  | |
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Anxiety said: i'm all for bitching and complaining
 We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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Genesia said: Anxiety said: i'm all for bitching and complaining
well i am! | |
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Anxiety said: redflag said: Because we all know how ethical record labels and the RIAA are.   Point taken, but this is Prince. Im sure he could find a record company that would offer up a deal he can live with. Hes just so stubborn and weird about the whole record deal thing now. That goes all the way back to the 100million dollar deal with WB. He knew what he was signing when he read the contract.. then suddenly he has a problem with it? He had been in the business since 78 and all of a sudden he wants out of a contract he JUST signed!... Get off your highhorse Prince...negotiate a good contract and get your music out to the masses like you used to! | |
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ronnwinter said: Anxiety said: Point taken, but this is Prince. Im sure he could find a record company that would offer up a deal he can live with. Hes just so stubborn and weird about the whole record deal thing now. That goes all the way back to the 100million dollar deal with WB. He knew what he was signing when he read the contract.. then suddenly he has a problem with it? He had been in the business since 78 and all of a sudden he wants out of a contract he JUST signed!... Get off your highhorse Prince...negotiate a good contract and get your music out to the masses like you used to! i'd much rather he establish his own independent label if he does anything. | |
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Sounds to me like you're just some Union hack who is upset that everyone doesn't have to belong to corrupt Unions. Fortunately, there are States that have 'Right to Work' laws, meaning you don't have to let someone else take YOUR pay to line their own thieving pockets. | |
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lspear76 said: ronnwinter said: I agree and disagree. I hate that Prince went this route with the album. He should swallow his pride and get back to a label and have it distrubuted everywhere.
Now as far as the Union..The union is good and bad. I dont see why its a big deal when it comes to the wages. Every major chain cant pay every employee 10-15 bucks an hour. If they did, their prices would go thru the roof. Now if they are involved in copyright infringment like Wal Mart (see adidas lawsuit against wal mart) then screw em... if theyre breaking labor laws like wal mart, then screw em...but wages? Thats just life. Some places pay great, some dont. I mean come on, next thing ya know, employees working the drive thru at McDonalds will be getting paid $13 an hour so they can have a "living" wage and we'll be paying $7 for a cheeseburger and $10 for the combo. Why should Prince go back with a label? From what I can tell, the music industry is quite dead. Tell me, if Target is giving Prince 2 million dollars up front, and the major labels would give him less and want more "restrictions", why should Prince go with a major label? Maybe Prince doesn't care about charts or videos and just wants to release his music for his fans and get paid for it... and move on. You could also just download the albums from his website. Apparently ive missed something..I didnt know Target was giving him 2million bucks. And for an $11.99 sale price? Theyll have to sale about 170,000 copies just to break even.(not counting any costs of advertising and marketing for the album) But my main point was the fact that a record label would most likely push his album so it would make money. I dont really see Target going all out for this album. But hey I could be wrong.. | |
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Serena said: Sounds to me like you're just some Union hack who is upset that everyone doesn't have to belong to corrupt Unions. Fortunately, there are States that have 'Right to Work' laws, meaning you don't have to let someone else take YOUR pay to line their own thieving pockets.
I like you.  We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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CarrieMpls said: Good info, thanks Carrie! | |
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gubbins4ever said: Trickology, thank you for putting so much effort into your post. Critical thinking of this kind is all too scarce and you are to be highly commended for this contribution to the public dialogue.
This is absolutely something we should all think about. Target Corporation presents many significant ethical problems, such as paying employees fair wages, its anti-union stance, its dependence on foreign slave labor, its dependence on long oil-based and environmentally harmful supply chains, its contribution to sprawl and to "clone towns", and its attack on local economies by leaching money to centralized business centers. Prince, you should be ashamed for supporting this kind of entity. It is a sad sign of how uninformed or ill-caring you must be. As for the Prince fan community, I urge you all to avoid purchasing any of Prince's upcoming albums from Target. Shopping from this outlet will tarnish you in the same way that it has now tarnished Prince. Dammit!! Who left the asylum door open again, all the kookoos are out today! | |
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xlr8r said: purplecam said: Maybe Tricky needs to get a life. I betcha its on sale at Target.
Get this. He even complained about Prince's Rock n Roll Hall of fame tribute, While My Guitar Gently Weeps. These folks will find a way to say someting negative about every move Prince makes. Seriously? Ok, well that certainly clarifies the situation to me, as in dude needs to be ignored. | |
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Anxiety said: so when we angrily storm prince's house, i'm guessing it would be a faux pas for us to buy our torches and pitchforks at target's home gardening center, huh?
Yeah, so I'm not sure where we're supposed to get them then? Because I'm sure Home Depot, Lowes, etc., are all off-limits too. Guess it'll just have to be sticks and flints! | |
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This thread is waaaaay too far fetched!! One day Prince will have enough of this scrutinizing everytime he tries some thing and tell everyone to go fuck himself!
12 dollars for a 3 CD ain't a "supercapitalistbadMoFo" price dammit!! [Edited 3/4/09 13:48pm] "Goodness will guide us when love is inside of us... The Force will be with you, always" | |
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Interesting but sorry, you didn't make a convincing statement.
 | |
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xlr8r said: purplecam said: Maybe Tricky needs to get a life. I betcha its on sale at Target.
Get this. He even complained about Prince's Rock n Roll Hall of fame tribute, While My Guitar Gently Weeps. These folks will find a way to say someting negative about every move Prince makes. The dude is bonkers.  I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that | |
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Genesia said: Trickology said: No, it's about alot of issues regarding this corporation. It doesn't look good from Prince's standpoint. That is what the discussion is about. You can argue the point all you want. But when the smoke clears it still doesn't look ethical. It's a company that relies on intimidation and Slave Labor. I don't know about you but that isn't a good road to traverse for any independent artist. On the contrary - it looks great from Prince's standpoint - and to the public - because most people love Target. It's cool and hip and people feel good shopping there. Nobody (but you, apparently) thinks the people who work there are slaves. michelle obama loves target....so what does that tell you. Lemme | |
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Dare I say it but apart from the slave labour - who gives a shit?
ALL major corporations a dodgy to some extent. | |
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gubbins4ever said: There have been three types of response to this thread which have been both prevalent and poor contributions to the dialogue. They are along the lines of:-
1. "Target's practices have nothing to do with Prince". Target's practices now do have something to do with Prince. By selling his product in Target's stores, he is supporting the corporation and its practices. 2. "Stop wasting your time hating on Prince. Go somewhere else if you are unhappy with what he does." This evasive response does not address the arguments contained in this thread. 3. "The kind of practices in which Target engages are prevalent across the industry." it's about tie someone set this asshole straight!!!!! This point is weak. The prevalence is a practice is unrelated to whether or not such a practice is moral. Lemme | |
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I have a few questions for Trickology....
1) Do you own the computer you are online with? If so, where did you buy it from and what kind of business practices do the store/place you bought it from have? 2) What kind of computer is it? Can you guarantee that no slave labor was used in making the computer or any of it's components? Was the Computer and ALL of it's components made with union labor? 3) What about the server we are using right now? Same questions. 4) What about the online service you are using? Same questions. How far do you want to go with this? If you dig deep enough, pretty much any business or product is going to have the same problems. So IMHO unless Target has separate bathrooms for blacks and whites, or breaks labor laws, or pays workers less than minimum wage, etc....something blatant like that, I think $11.99 for 3 CD's is a great deal and a wise decision on Prince's part. "Always blessings, never losses......"
Ya te dije....no manches guey!!!!!  I'm a guy!!!!
"....i can open my-eyes "underwater"..there4 i will NOT drown...." - mzkqueen03  | |
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4bjb said: Genesia said: On the contrary - it looks great from Prince's standpoint - and to the public - because most people love Target. It's cool and hip and people feel good shopping there. Nobody (but you, apparently) thinks the people who work there are slaves. michelle obama loves target....so what does that tell you. Am I supposed to be impressed by that? We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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in today's economy most retailers are doing what they have to do to stay afloat.
where I work, field managers are not getting bonuses. pay raises are limited across the board to 2%. Unions are not the answer to every problem. Unions have raised the cost of production and driven most factories out of this country. | |
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BlackAdder7 said: in today's economy most retailers are doing what they have to do to stay afloat.
where I work, field managers are not getting bonuses. pay raises are limited across the board to 2%. Unions are not the answer to every problem. Unions have raised the cost of production and driven most factories out of this country. 
Where I work at a medical device company, we have over 250 employees, ship out over $90 Million a year, have no Union yet no one here makes less that $12 an hour, we have Medical Insurance, Dental Insurance, Life Insurance, and they match .50 cents to every $1 we put into our 401K. Plus we are still getting bonuses and raises up to 6%. "Always blessings, never losses......"
Ya te dije....no manches guey!!!!! I'm a guy!!!!
"....i can open my-eyes "underwater"..there4 i will NOT drown...." - mzkqueen03 | |
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Sowhat said: BlackAdder7 said: in today's economy most retailers are doing what they have to do to stay afloat.
where I work, field managers are not getting bonuses. pay raises are limited across the board to 2%. Unions are not the answer to every problem. Unions have raised the cost of production and driven most factories out of this country.
Where I work at a medical device company, we have over 250 employees, ship out over $90 Million a year, have no Union yet no one here makes less that $12 an hour, we have Medical Insurance, Dental Insurance, Life Insurance, and they match .50 cents to every $1 we put into our 401K. Plus we are still getting bonuses and raises up to 6%. You're a slave. 
We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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I can see valid points, but at some point are these artists responsible for saving the whole world?
Touring is irresponsible because of the massive amounts of gasoline & energy involved to blast music to 10,000 people. Cd's themselves are just more plastic in the world. Guitars & instruments themselves are made with products that pollute, or are made in countries with questionable labor practices. I noticed watching An Inconvenient Truth that Al Gore was constantly in a car or on a plane. But he was spreading a message. So what's the trade off. Is creating a thread about slave practices of Target with a plastic computer made in god knows where using electricity without negative impacts on the world? We can nit-pick forever, but Prince probably supported Target as a Twin Cities company, and as an alternative to Wal-Mart. That's something, maybe not on the level of Mother Theresa, but it's just a cd. Can we all seriously avoid supporting EVERYTHING that has a negative imapct on the world & its inhabitants? [Edited 3/4/09 15:17pm] My Legacy
http://prince.org/msg/8/192731 | |
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I agree with npggirl77 |
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Sowhat said: I have a few questions for Trickology....
1) Do you own the computer you are online with? If so, where did you buy it from and what kind of business practices do the store/place you bought it from have? 2) What kind of computer is it? Can you guarantee that no slave labor was used in making the computer or any of it's components? Was the Computer and ALL of it's components made with union labor? 3) What about the server we are using right now? Same questions. 4) What about the online service you are using? Same questions. How far do you want to go with this? If you dig deep enough, pretty much any business or product is going to have the same problems. So IMHO unless Target has separate bathrooms for blacks and whites, or breaks labor laws, or pays workers less than minimum wage, etc....something blatant like that, I think $11.99 for 3 CD's is a great deal and a wise decision on Prince's part. 
Betcha he doesn't answer your questions. It'll probably be something like 'oh that's not critical thinking, so I won't answer'! | |
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I just realized: this nut created this long-assed drawn out post to a 3-cd set going for 12 bucks.
Had to find SOMETHING wrong lol. And as I read the news, I wondered, who would be the first to start bitching for whatever reasons. | |
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ronnwinter said: Apparently ive missed something..I didnt know Target was giving him 2million bucks. And for an $11.99 sale price? Theyll have to sale about 170,000 copies just to break even.(not counting any costs of advertising and marketing for the album) But my main point was the fact that a record label would most likely push his album so it would make money. I dont really see Target going all out for this album. But hey I could be wrong.. Major labels now are only interested in "pushing" teen pop, emo rock and commercialized dumbed-down hip-hop and Prince, like most veteran artists these days realizes that. That's why most of them are seeking alternate means to distribute and promote their releases via these "exclusive deals" etc. Gone are the days when veteran artists like Aretha Franklin. Smokey Robinson and Don Henley could get massive airplay and chart success along with young new acts the way it was in the eighties. | |
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redflag said: ronnwinter said: Apparently ive missed something..I didnt know Target was giving him 2million bucks. And for an $11.99 sale price? Theyll have to sale about 170,000 copies just to break even.(not counting any costs of advertising and marketing for the album) But my main point was the fact that a record label would most likely push his album so it would make money. I dont really see Target going all out for this album. But hey I could be wrong.. Major labels now are only interested in "pushing" teen pop, emo rock and commercialized dumbed-down hip-hop and Prince, like most veteran artists these days realizes that. That's why most of them are seeking alternate means to distribute and promote their releases via these "exclusive deals" etc. Gone are the days when veteran artists like Aretha Franklin. Smokey Robinson and Don Henley could get massive airplay and chart success along with young new acts the way it was in the eighties. Dear Mr. Man, when will we be paid? GMAN | |
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redflag said: ronnwinter said: Apparently ive missed something..I didnt know Target was giving him 2million bucks. And for an $11.99 sale price? Theyll have to sale about 170,000 copies just to break even.(not counting any costs of advertising and marketing for the album) But my main point was the fact that a record label would most likely push his album so it would make money. I dont really see Target going all out for this album. But hey I could be wrong.. Major labels now are only interested in "pushing" teen pop, emo rock and commercialized dumbed-down hip-hop and Prince, like most veteran artists these days realizes that. That's why most of them are seeking alternate means to distribute and promote their releases via these "exclusive deals" etc. Gone are the days when veteran artists like Aretha Franklin. Smokey Robinson and Don Henley could get massive airplay and chart success along with young new acts the way it was in the eighties. Yea...I guess u do have a point. | |
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