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Printabletheghostoftonym said: technical ability has nothing to do with anything. i mean, there's a reason why outside of guitar nerds nobody gives a shit about boring turds like eric johnson
nod I think it's a musician thing. Musicians (and in particular guitar players) listen to music in a whole different way than non-musicians. When guitar players hear a guitar solo we immediately pay attention to: melody, timing, structure of the solo, sound, attack, sustain etc.
what a lot of nonsense. if when you hear a guitarist letting rip you're primarily paying attention to all those things as individual elements, like a teacher grading an exam paper, i feel deeply deeply sorry for you. john coltrane has a famous quote to which says the exact opposite, that if you're truly immersed in a truly great solo neither the player nor the listener should care whatsoever about any kind of theory or technical detail; if you're a truly great player all that stuff should be intuitive anyway. how could you listen to coltrane's solo on "ole", for example, for the first time and just comprehend it technically? it would be absurd. and ask any jazz musician - not a soulless instrumental shred guitarist, a real jazz musician - and they'll tell you the same thing. so would jimi hendrix have. stuff like that is useful for a technical breakdown (i.e. "how did he play that") but it has nothing to do with, on an emotional, human level, as you feel it run through your ear and your brain, how "good" a guitar solo is. Spoken like a true non-musician. Instead of using this thread to shit on Eric Johnson, why don't you start an "I hate Eric Johnson" thread? My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
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because he's not worth it | |
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What a witty comeback. He must've been worth something if you mentioned him. My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
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uh, i mentioned him because he was mentioned earlier in the thread, maybe? | |
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Still, you mentioned him, smart-ass. My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
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wtf...
What happened here? i just mentioned something pretty much harmless... and you guys went a little overboard. I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning | |
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This is the org, man  My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
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theghostoftonym said:[quote] coolcat said: the public isnt ignorant about prince. he still has legendary status across all genres, and an immense live reputation. a standing which seems even more impressive when you consider his studio output for the last ten years has been quite bad but vai or satriani or eric johnson have never broken out of their exclusive "guitarist's guitarist" fanbases I think he's just saying that a musician develops a different type of intuition that is more affected by technique. The intuition comes first, then we analyze why we liked or didn't like the music, so that we can talk about it... just like any discussion about why we like or dislike certain songs... but whether or not a solo is "good" is not anything to do with technicality. like i said, it's useful for secondary "how did he play that" analysis, but on a purely human level it's irrelevant. b.b. king's stuff is very technically simple, for example. whereas clueless shred bozos like paul gilbert are technically advanced but just sound like a tape rewinding a lot of the time, and generally their solos are like a chicken running around with its head cut off and im a musician, by the way. ive played guitar for 10 years and classical piano (and latterly jazz/r&b piano) for 15 [Edited 7/25/07 12:55pm]  It's all good. Musicians' opinions are as diverse as anyone else's. | |
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What do y'all think of Prince's sound? I mean, his actual sound, i.e, his use of Boss pedals and choice of guitars. I know Jake E. Lee, a badass on guitar himself, once stated that he loved Prince's playing as long as he didn't do any rock stuff, 'cause he thought his sound was overly processed.
Personally, I love the rhythm sound of the Hohner and the lead sound of the Cloud and the Auerswald (I love the sustain). My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
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EmbattledWarrior said: While listening to purple rain, i've noticed that Prince hasn't really given uss a Killer guitar solo on record. It seems to me that it's not his main priority to create solos. He plays what he feels. And theirs nothing wrong with that but his playing is pretty inconsisstent, and hasn't changed throughout the years. His playing has gotten better (faster) but his ability to construct decent solos is still not good. He's gotten close, (joy in repition, Shhh, The Sensual Everafter) But i have to say their isn't one solo that i myself said "Damn i wish i created that"
And as a guitar player, and soloist, i can vouch that prince prretty much doesn't know wtf he's doing... Best solo i've ever heard him play was the r&r rendition of MGGW, but other than that nothing... Maybe its something only a musician can see, But am i alone on this? how bout you go away and ram it "Im Too Funky To Sleep With Myself" | |
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EmbattledWarrior said: oh and Vai , whispering on a prayer
and all of satrianis stuff vai is also the cheesist mmost boring wanker ever to watch i went to see a concert of his, it lasted 2 hours after a half hour i was ready for suicide or a slightly less drastic refund "Im Too Funky To Sleep With Myself" | |
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As a Musician myself..Playing guitar for over 20 years..i dont agree...I think he can do whatever he wants with his guitar..When i listen to him I take into account all the harmonies his piano and bass work..his Exceptional rhythm and his voice...I am sure that whatever he hears in his head, he can get out of the guitar ..and that a Hell of a lot more than the average "killer guitarist " can do ! | |
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EmbattledWarrior said: While listening to purple rain, i've noticed that Prince hasn't really given uss a Killer guitar solo on record. It seems to me that it's not his main priority to create solos. He plays what he feels. And theirs nothing wrong with that but his playing is pretty inconsisstent, and hasn't changed throughout the years. His playing has gotten better (faster) but his ability to construct decent solos is still not good. He's gotten close, (joy in repition, Shhh, The Sensual Everafter) But i have to say their isn't one solo that i myself said "Damn i wish i created that"
And as a guitar player, and soloist, i can vouch that prince prretty much doesn't know wtf he's doing... Best solo i've ever heard him play was the r&r rendition of MGGW, but other than that nothing... Maybe its something only a musician can see, But am i alone on this? For me, Prince is the only guitarists whose solos I dig. Maybe because he truly plays what he feels as you said. His solos are the most passionate ones, like the one at the end of I hate you. I´ve never heard a sound expressing a feeling better. i can´t speak of any technical stuff though cause I am not a guitarist. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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theghostoftonym said: Christaro said: You got me wrong. Of course a guitar solo is a way of expressing your feelings. Feeling comes in the first place, always. What's so great about being a guitar player and hear somebody play a solo is that u know exactly what's going on. You follow the solo in your mind and u know exactly what techniques are used. I guess this is hard to explain to a non-musician. When I hear lousy guitar players I immediately create a different solo in my head. Like: I would have used that note or specific melody. well, for a start, i'm not a non-musician (if by musician you mean "someone who is proficient at a musical instrument") as ive said. ive played guitar for 10 years and classical piano (and latterly jazz/r&b piano) for 15 and anyway....you're still missing the point if you listen like that. you say you listen to things and imagine what notes you would have played instead; thats so sad you listen to music like that. surely that extends to less-than-great parts of great solos too, then? to take an extreme example, when john coltrane was trying to kick his heroin addiction he used to lock himself in his bedroom in his lowest moments and just blow agonisingly into his horn, just let all his tension and frustration out through it. it was his outlet for the deepest darkest depths of his soul. now how absurd would it be if you overheard trane's playing from outside his bedroom, waited until he had finished, then opened the door and said to him, as he stood there emotionally exhausted with tears streaming down his cheeks, "that was pretty solid trane my man, but in measure 26, i'd have preferred it if you had played a long held b flat then descended down the scale rapidly, rather than ascending up the b flat minor triad four times then moving onto A flat and A natural." see how silly, not to mention disrespectful, that would be? [Edited 7/25/07 17:16pm]  Of course a guitar solo is a way of expressing your feelings. If you play 3 notes in a 16 bar guitar solo that can sound really great. Musical notes can either make u cry or sing or whatever. The point is: it's not very interesting to listen to 3 notes in 16 bars. It's the coordination between whatever notes u hear in your mind and what you do with your fingers. It's a union. At least that's what it is to me. I'm not interested in being right. It's just the way I feel and think about it. And believe me it's not sad to listen to music if u are me. Playing and listening to music is the most joyful thing there is (oh after sex of course). | |
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dag said: EmbattledWarrior said: While listening to purple rain, i've noticed that Prince hasn't really given uss a Killer guitar solo on record. It seems to me that it's not his main priority to create solos. He plays what he feels. And theirs nothing wrong with that but his playing is pretty inconsisstent, and hasn't changed throughout the years. His playing has gotten better (faster) but his ability to construct decent solos is still not good. He's gotten close, (joy in repition, Shhh, The Sensual Everafter) But i have to say their isn't one solo that i myself said "Damn i wish i created that"
And as a guitar player, and soloist, i can vouch that prince prretty much doesn't know wtf he's doing... Best solo i've ever heard him play was the r&r rendition of MGGW, but other than that nothing... Maybe its something only a musician can see, But am i alone on this? For me, Prince is the only guitarists whose solos I dig. Maybe because he truly plays what he feels as you said. His solos are the most passionate ones, like the one at the end of I hate you. I´ve never heard a sound expressing a feeling better. i can´t speak of any technical stuff though cause I am not a guitarist. Different strokes, breh It guess its something that fans don't notice and die hard fans take offense too. Each guitarist has their own style, jimi was dirty, yet melodic player. Prince's lead playing is tonaly is influenced by Jimi but the actual playing itself is very Santanaish, you can hear it alot more when he's playing fusion stuff... My guess is prince isn't the type to sit down and woodshed an instrument, he just picks it up and plays. Which has its advatages and disadvantages, Advantages are you have alot more feeling in you're playing disadvantage it takes too fucking long to master that aspect of the instrument... Prince i believe has mastered his lead, And is one of the greats but look how long it took him to master the instrument, nearly 20 years! The only reason i even mentioned it, is because Prince was the person that influenced me into playing guitar. And after 3 years of woodshedding, my soloing is more complex than his stuff. And that kinda pisses me off too... Cause the fanatic should never surpass the idol. But i have a different style on my own from other guitarist. But what got me to the instrument was prince... And yes Purple Rain, I Hate You, And now that i take a second look... at the songs, The playing seems to be all smoke but no fire. His tone is awesome, he makes good use oof fuzzing up his tone and cutting out the distortion (i guess thats his techs) But the playing very rarely dazzles me anymore. Im still waiting for that one solo! Where P just High Fives god, that will go down in history. I just hope he delivers. I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
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JesseDezz said: What do y'all think of Prince's sound? I mean, his actual sound, i.e, his use of Boss pedals and choice of guitars. I know Jake E. Lee, a badass on guitar himself, once stated that he loved Prince's playing as long as he didn't do any rock stuff, 'cause he thought his sound was overly processed.
Personally, I love the rhythm sound of the Hohner and the lead sound of the Cloud and the Auerswald (I love the sustain). His clean sounds are ok. As far as his solos: I love the sound of his Stratocaster with humbucker. 'Fury' live on Saturday Night Live was awesome. | |
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Christaro said: JesseDezz said: What do y'all think of Prince's sound? I mean, his actual sound, i.e, his use of Boss pedals and choice of guitars. I know Jake E. Lee, a badass on guitar himself, once stated that he loved Prince's playing as long as he didn't do any rock stuff, 'cause he thought his sound was overly processed.
Personally, I love the rhythm sound of the Hohner and the lead sound of the Cloud and the Auerswald (I love the sustain). His clean sounds are ok. As far as his solos: I love the sound of his Stratocaster with humbucker. 'Fury' live on Saturday Night Live was awesome. The sounds are really stripped down jimi sounds, i know hee uses a Boss Fuzzwah, and a few chorus flang ers. But i think his Mesa Boogie amps are what make his sounds too, I would like to know what gates he's using though I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning | |
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EmbattledWarrior said: Christaro said: His clean sounds are ok. As far as his solos: I love the sound of his Stratocaster with humbucker. 'Fury' live on Saturday Night Live was awesome. The sounds are really stripped down jimi sounds, i know hee uses a Boss Fuzzwah, and a few chorus flang ers. But i think his Mesa Boogie amps are what make his sounds too, I would like to know what gates he's using though Yeah, there are people on the org who know what equipment he uses. Start a thread about it. During his 3121 live gigs he used Orange Amps.  | |
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Christaro said: theghostoftonym said: well, for a start, i'm not a non-musician (if by musician you mean "someone who is proficient at a musical instrument") as ive said. ive played guitar for 10 years and classical piano (and latterly jazz/r&b piano) for 15 and anyway....you're still missing the point if you listen like that. you say you listen to things and imagine what notes you would have played instead; thats so sad you listen to music like that. surely that extends to less-than-great parts of great solos too, then? to take an extreme example, when john coltrane was trying to kick his heroin addiction he used to lock himself in his bedroom in his lowest moments and just blow agonisingly into his horn, just let all his tension and frustration out through it. it was his outlet for the deepest darkest depths of his soul. now how absurd would it be if you overheard trane's playing from outside his bedroom, waited until he had finished, then opened the door and said to him, as he stood there emotionally exhausted with tears streaming down his cheeks, "that was pretty solid trane my man, but in measure 26, i'd have preferred it if you had played a long held b flat then descended down the scale rapidly, rather than ascending up the b flat minor triad four times then moving onto A flat and A natural." see how silly, not to mention disrespectful, that would be? [Edited 7/25/07 17:16pm] Of course a guitar solo is a way of expressing your feelings. If you play 3 notes in a 16 bar guitar solo that can sound really great. Musical notes can either make u cry or sing or whatever. The point is: it's not very interesting to listen to 3 notes in 16 bars. It's the coordination between whatever notes u hear in your mind and what you do with your fingers. It's a union. At least that's what it is to me. I'm not interested in being right. It's just the way I feel and think about it. And believe me it's not sad to listen to music if u are me. Playing and listening to music is the most joyful thing there is (oh after sex of course).I agree | |
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Christaro said: EmbattledWarrior said: The sounds are really stripped down jimi sounds, i know hee uses a Boss Fuzzwah, and a few chorus flang ers. But i think his Mesa Boogie amps are what make his sounds too, I would like to know what gates he's using though Yeah, there are people on the org who know what equipment he uses. Start a thread about it. During his 3121 live gigs he used Orange Amps. from what i know Prince's amps are usuallly just mesaboogies i know he's been using the heart breakers recently Gotta be up to these specs 2X12 Rectifier Cab-Horizontal 4X12 Standard Rectifier Cab-Straight Lone Star 1x12 Combo HTBRKR HEAD,BLK,BG I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
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EmbattledWarrior said: Christaro said: Yeah, there are people on the org who know what equipment he uses. Start a thread about it. During his 3121 live gigs he used Orange Amps. from what i know Prince's amps are usuallly just mesaboogies i know he's been using the heart breakers recently Gotta be up to these specs 2X12 Rectifier Cab-Horizontal 4X12 Standard Rectifier Cab-Straight Lone Star 1x12 Combo HTBRKR HEAD,BLK,BG  Where did you get that information? | |
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Christaro said: EmbattledWarrior said: from what i know Prince's amps are usuallly just mesaboogies i know he's been using the heart breakers recently Gotta be up to these specs 2X12 Rectifier Cab-Horizontal 4X12 Standard Rectifier Cab-Straight Lone Star 1x12 Combo HTBRKR HEAD,BLK,BG Where did you get that information?Well i found out he was using mesaboogies from an article & interview of prince from GuitarPlayer magazine a few years back during musicology. So i just went to mesaboogies site and went to artist lookup, and just looked Prince simple enough Lemme check the magazine the to get the exacts I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
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Alright heres Prince's rig as of 04, im pretty sure its the same with some minor modifications, he hasnt made any major changes since 00
Guitars:70's Hohner, Custom Schecter(Habibe), "Cloud Guitar", by schecter, George Benson Ibanez, Fat strat Fender stratocaster( with bridge humbucker and floyd rose locking trem) Amps: Mesa Boogie Heartbreaker Speaker Cabinets: Mesa boogie recto 2X12, loaded with celestation Vintage 30's Rack Gear: Digital Music MX-8, Roland Gp-16, Zoom 9030, Rane Me30, Behringer Denoiser, Furman PL-8, Furman Pl-Pro, Furman AR-117 Stompboxes: Boss Ds-2 turbo Overdrive, Boss VB-2 Vibrato, boss D-3 Digital Delay, Boss Fl-2 Flanger, Boss OC-2 Octaver, Boss-BD-2 Blues Driver, Dunlap Crybaby Wah, Dunlop Rotovibe I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
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EmbattledWarrior said: Alright heres Prince's rig as of 04, im pretty sure its the same with some minor modifications, he hasnt made any major changes since 00
Guitars:70's Hohner, Custom Schecter(Habibe), "Cloud Guitar", by schecter, George Benson Ibanez, Fat strat Fender stratocaster( with bridge humbucker and floyd rose locking trem) Amps: Mesa Boogie Heartbreaker Speaker Cabinets: Mesa boogie recto 2X12, loaded with celestation Vintage 30's Rack Gear: Digital Music MX-8, Roland Gp-16, Zoom 9030, Rane Me30, Behringer Denoiser, Furman PL-8, Furman Pl-Pro, Furman AR-117 Stompboxes: Boss Ds-2 turbo Overdrive, Boss VB-2 Vibrato, boss D-3 Digital Delay, Boss Fl-2 Flanger, Boss OC-2 Octaver, Boss-BD-2 Blues Driver, Dunlap Crybaby Wah, Dunlop Rotovibe Thanks  | |
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I may be repeating myself but would all you negative arsholes f*** off. What is the point in saying 'Prince is not the best soloist in the world?' I mean we all know he's the best at what he does, that means an artist, he's a great singer, dancer and each instrument he plays, he plays with style and feeling. I have heard a few of his live solos and they are awsome, maybe not the best but damn good. Please stop posting crap. | |
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EmbattledWarrior said:[quote] dag said: For me, Prince is the only guitarists whose solos I dig. Maybe because he truly plays what he feels as you said. His solos are the most passionate ones, like the one at the end of I hate you. I´ve never heard a sound expressing a feeling better. i can´t speak of any technical stuff though cause I am not a guitarist. Different strokes, breh It guess its something that fans don't notice and die hard fans take offense too. Each guitarist has their own style, jimi was dirty, yet melodic player. Prince's lead playing is tonaly is influenced by Jimi but the actual playing itself is very Santanaish, you can hear it alot more when he's playing fusion stuff... My guess is prince isn't the type to sit down and woodshed an instrument, he just picks it up and plays. Which has its advatages and disadvantages, Advantages are you have alot more feeling in you're playing disadvantage it takes too fucking long to master that aspect of the instrument... Prince i believe has mastered his lead, And is one of the greats but look how long it took him to master the instrument, nearly 20 years! The only reason i even mentioned it, is because Prince was the person that influenced me into playing guitar. And after 3 years of woodshedding, my soloing is more complex than his stuff. And that kinda pisses me off too... Cause the fanatic should never surpass the idol. Some people may start to slam you for that, but I can see what you're saying. Where you were three years ago is where I am now. Still inspired, but Prince is a more approachable guitar "hero", let's say, than Steve Vai. You could practice five hours a day for five years and not come near what Steve can do on a guitar. But if you practice hard, you may just be able to crank out Let's Go Crazy or The Question of U... (That's not to say you could *write* or sing those songs, just play the guitar parts). Can you play all the stuff in Prince's catalogue? [Edited 7/26/07 6:15am]  
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i agree prince hasn't really ever played a truly great epic guitar solo on record (the dirty stuff, as someone has already said, is good, i.e. rockhard in a funkyplace), but as far as sexface-tacular screaming...no. its partly due to the way he processes it; im thinking primarily of joy in repetition here. that solo could have melted heads had it not been all distorted and buried in the mix. the sound/tone that he has on live recordings (the best one ive heard is the hong kong rocks version of shhhhh) is what he should be going for. | |
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people people people
steve vai's piaces are made to be his wank fest while prince's composed his solos based on a fact what the song neeeds. its easy to say im better then prince but are you realy better guitar player then prince??? jeff beck said that prince is one of the most underrated guitar players in the world. embattled warrior if you are better then prince then show us. go and pick by ear solo from song interactive. its a very well constructed solo by prince and he plays it live the same way he did it in studio. so go pick up that solo and then post it on youtube and if you play it better then prince then you are realy better. but i highly doubt it. | |
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Mahe said: I may be repeating myself but would all you negative arsholes f*** off. What is the point in saying 'Prince is not the best soloist in the world?' I mean we all know he's the best at what he does, that means an artist, he's a great singer, dancer and each instrument he plays, he plays with style and feeling. I have heard a few of his live solos and they are awsome, maybe not the best but damn good. Please stop posting crap.
yeah prince is a quality guitar player. He should show that more on albums. | |
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dag said: EmbattledWarrior said: While listening to purple rain, i've noticed that Prince hasn't really given uss a Killer guitar solo on record. It seems to me that it's not his main priority to create solos. He plays what he feels. And theirs nothing wrong with that but his playing is pretty inconsisstent, and hasn't changed throughout the years. His playing has gotten better (faster) but his ability to construct decent solos is still not good. He's gotten close, (joy in repition, Shhh, The Sensual Everafter) But i have to say their isn't one solo that i myself said "Damn i wish i created that"
And as a guitar player, and soloist, i can vouch that prince prretty much doesn't know wtf he's doing... Best solo i've ever heard him play was the r&r rendition of MGGW, but other than that nothing... Maybe its something only a musician can see, But am i alone on this? For me, Prince is the only guitarists whose solos I dig. Maybe because he truly plays what he feels as you said. His solos are the most passionate ones, like the one at the end of I hate you. I´ve never heard a sound expressing a feeling better. i can´t speak of any technical stuff though cause I am not a guitarist. Have you listened to page, slash, hendrix, zappa? I agree with you and i listen to all of the above too so maybe you should also check these guys out. I love passionate playing as opposed to thrash metal shredding. | |
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