coolcat said:

I think it's a musician thing. Musicians (and in particular guitar players) listen to music in a whole different way than non-musicians. When guitar players hear a guitar solo we immediately pay attention to: melody, timing, structure of the solo, sound, attack, sustain etc.
Prince is a good guitar player but that's it. Nothing great or brilliant. He can never beat Steve Vai or Joe Satriani. Not in a million years. Those guys are Masters on their instruments. The reason I love Prince so much is that he is so versatile. With Prince it's the entire package: singing, playing several instruments, songwriting, studio technique, performing, dancing.

nod I think it's a musician thing. Musicians (and in particular guitar players) listen to music in a whole different way than non-musicians. When guitar players hear a guitar solo we immediately pay attention to: melody, timing, structure of the solo, sound, attack, sustain etc.

Small Club. Just My Imagination. Total eargasm.

I'm just sayin'.

Genesia said:

yep. and Small Club Rave un2 the joy fantastic, multiple eargasms!

machinegun said:

That whole show makes me wet.

technical ability has nothing to do with anything. i mean, there's a reason why outside of guitar nerds nobody gives a shit about boring turds like eric johnson

what a lot of nonsense. if when you hear a guitarist letting rip you're primarily paying attention to all those things as individual elements, like a teacher grading an exam paper, i feel deeply deeply sorry for you. john coltrane has a famous quote to which says the exact opposite, that if you're truly immersed in a truly great solo neither the player nor the listener should care whatsoever about any kind of theory or technical detail; if you're a truly great player all that stuff should be intuitive anyway. how could you listen to coltrane's solo on "ole", for example, for the first time and just comprehend it technically? it would be absurd. and ask any jazz musician - not a soulless instrumental shred guitarist, a real jazz musician - and they'll tell you the same thing. so would jimi hendrix have. stuff like that is useful for a technical breakdown (i.e. "how did he play that") but it has nothing to do with, on an emotional, human level, as you feel it run through your ear and your brain, how "good" a guitar solo is.

Those of you who complain that he doesn't play like Vai or Satriani et al. should remember that both of those guys rate Prince highly as both a guitarist and musician. I think people- especially some musicians -tend to assume that because Prince is a multi-instumentalist that he is merely 'ok' on those instruments rather than very good to excellent. I think Prince has a very distinctive style and personality to his guitar playing (both rhythm and lead)in addition to his piano/keyboard and bass skills and as another org member says, his leads often sing and are therefore memorable (a lot like his idol Santana). It's not a matter of how many notes you play ( as your repeated reference to speed indicates) but how you build the solo and I think Prince mixes the melodic and rhythmic aspects very well to create solos which convey emotion and build to an apex. He also uses speed when necessary but contrasts it nicely with sustained/feedback notes and muted rhythmical flurries and tones (ICNTTPOYM - live and The Ride). What I might criticise slightly is that the Purple Rain solo structure and build-up has been repeated thematically a few too many times in other songs. Also, his playing is not often well mixed on his CD output.

Anyway, if you want to hear shredded speed arpeggios listen to someone like Yngwie Malmsteen who while technically impressive seems more intent on showing off over really creating guitar parts that bring the songs to life, are memorable and which also reveal the soul of the player. Remember, music isn't just about technical proficiency and complexity for its own sake but creating something which speaks to people. On this latter point, Prince has reduced audiences (including myself) to tears (and yes,for a good reason) with the beauty, phrasing and sheer emotion of his guitar playing. How many of these 'technical wizards' can do the same?

Btw, Prince's solo at the 2004 Hall of Fame (USA) awards was really impressive and highly lauded by all accounts.

While listening to purple rain, i've noticed that Prince hasn't really given uss a Killer guitar solo on record. It seems to me that it's not his main priority to create solos. He plays what he feels. And theirs nothing wrong with that but his playing is pretty inconsisstent, and hasn't changed throughout the years. His playing has gotten better (faster) but his ability to construct decent solos is still not good. He's gotten close, (joy in repition, Shhh, The Sensual Everafter) But i have to say their isn't one solo that i myself said "Damn i wish i created that"
And as a guitar player, and soloist, i can vouch that prince prretty much doesn't know wtf he's doing...
Best solo i've ever heard him play was the r&r rendition of MGGW, but other than that nothing...
Maybe its something only a musician can see,
But am i alone on this?

coolcat said:

I think it's a musician thing. Musicians (and in particular guitar players) listen to music in a whole different way than non-musicians. When guitar players hear a guitar solo we immediately pay attention to: melody, timing, structure of the solo, sound, attack, sustain etc.
Prince is a good guitar player but that's it. Nothing great or brilliant. He can never beat Steve Vai or Joe Satriani. Not in a million years. Those guys are Masters on their instruments. The reason I love Prince so much is that he is so versatile. With Prince it's the entire package: singing, playing several instruments, songwriting, studio technique, performing, dancing.

Genesia said:

You know, Prince only has himself to blame if he doesn't get the respect as a guitarist he deserves. 2 good aftershows on video and DVD would have ended any question of his abilities and put an end to these threads too!

technical ability has nothing to do with anything. i mean, there's a reason why outside of guitar nerds nobody gives a shit about boring turds like eric johnson



what a lot of nonsense. if when you hear a guitarist letting rip you're primarily paying attention to all those things as individual elements, like a teacher grading an exam paper, i feel deeply deeply sorry for you. john coltrane has a famous quote to which says the exact opposite, that if you're truly immersed in a truly great solo neither the player nor the listener should care whatsoever about any kind of theory or technical detail; if you're a truly great player all that stuff should be intuitive anyway. how could you listen to coltrane's solo on "ole", for example, for the first time and just comprehend it technically? it would be absurd. and ask any jazz musician - not a soulless instrumental shred guitarist, a real jazz musician - and they'll tell you the same thing. so would jimi hendrix have. stuff like that is useful for a technical breakdown (i.e. "how did he play that") but it has nothing to do with, on an emotional, human level, as you feel it run through your ear and your brain, how "good" a guitar solo is.

theghostoftonym said:

If someone said the same thing about Prince, then prince fans would be up in arms saying that the public is just ignorant about Prince... they'd never say, well there's a reason the public doesn't give a shit... Prince is just a turd.
It's a double standard.

I think he's just saying that a musician develops a different type of intuition that is more affected by technique.

The intuition comes first, then we analyze why we liked or didn't like the music, so that we can talk about it... just like any discussion about why we like or dislike certain songs...

Christaro said:

Wrong. How would U explain Steve Vai, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Pete Townshend, and countless other guitar players that consider him great on guitar?

I'm a player, and these particular ears hear much brilliance in his playing. I think it oould be nearly the opposite of what U say... That guitarists have a hard time thinking of Prince as a guitar player, because of his versatility in other areas, and because of his image.

as far as purple rain solo goes, if he wasnt such a great vocalist then the end 'oh, oh, oh, oh' part would have been transfered to the guitar. that melodic line is more memorable than the solo and connects better with the audience when played live.

while i agree that prince always plays tehnicly better solos on purple rain everytime he plays it live(althought studio version is live )

Christaro said:

Among the non-instrumental players, I'd have to say Prince is my favorite guitar player... But I just think the instrumental players including Jeff Beck, Satch, Vai, Eric Johnson... have taken rock guitar to another level because the guitar has to entirely replace the voice...

technical ability has nothing to do with anything. i mean, there's a reason why outside of guitar nerds nobody gives a shit about boring turds like eric johnson



what a lot of nonsense. if when you hear a guitarist letting rip you're primarily paying attention to all those things as individual elements, like a teacher grading an exam paper, i feel deeply deeply sorry for you. john coltrane has a famous quote to which says the exact opposite, that if you're truly immersed in a truly great solo neither the player nor the listener should care whatsoever about any kind of theory or technical detail; if you're a truly great player all that stuff should be intuitive anyway. how could you listen to coltrane's solo on "ole", for example, for the first time and just comprehend it technically? it would be absurd. and ask any jazz musician - not a soulless instrumental shred guitarist, a real jazz musician - and they'll tell you the same thing. so would jimi hendrix have. stuff like that is useful for a technical breakdown (i.e. "how did he play that") but it has nothing to do with, on an emotional, human level, as you feel it run through your ear and your brain, how "good" a guitar solo is.

technical ability has nothing to do with anything. i mean, there's a reason why outside of guitar nerds nobody gives a shit about boring turds like eric johnson

what a lot of nonsense. if when you hear a guitarist letting rip you're primarily paying attention to all those things as individual elements, like a teacher grading an exam paper, i feel deeply deeply sorry for you. john coltrane has a famous quote to which says the exact opposite, that if you're truly immersed in a truly great solo neither the player nor the listener should care whatsoever about any kind of theory or technical detail; if you're a truly great player all that stuff should be intuitive anyway. how could you listen to coltrane's solo on "ole", for example, for the first time and just comprehend it technically? it would be absurd. and ask any jazz musician - not a soulless instrumental shred guitarist, a real jazz musician - and they'll tell you the same thing. so would jimi hendrix have. stuff like that is useful for a technical breakdown (i.e. "how did he play that") but it has nothing to do with, on an emotional, human level, as you feel it run through your ear and your brain, how "good" a guitar solo is.

Christaro said:

Wrong. How would U explain Steve Vai, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Pete Townshend, and countless other guitar players that consider him great on guitar?

I'm a player, and these particular ears hear much brilliance in his playing. I think it oould be nearly the opposite of what U say... That guitarists have a hard time thinking of Prince as a guitar player, because of his versatility in other areas, and because of his image.

coolcat said:

the 15 - 20 second solo on Zeppelin Tangerine beat any solo Prince has made in his life,

Neil Young, Cortez the killer
Isley Bros , Summer Breeze
Bell bottom blues, clapton, simple yet melodic
Thanks for the pepperoni - George Harrison
November Rain - GnR , Slash at his melodic best
Free Bird - Skynyrd
Marooned- Pink Floyd
Comfortabvly numb - Pink Floyd

i can go on and on,
it just seems to me when it comes to solos Prince is melodically challenged

EmbattledWarrior said:

Neil Young's solo better than Prince ?

that's hysterical
[Edited 7/25/07 15:25pm]

While listening to purple rain, i've noticed that Prince hasn't really given uss a Killer guitar solo on record. It seems to me that it's not his main priority to create solos. He plays what he feels. And theirs nothing wrong with that but his playing is pretty inconsisstent, and hasn't changed throughout the years. His playing has gotten better (faster) but his ability to construct decent solos is still not good. He's gotten close, (joy in repition, Shhh, The Sensual Everafter) But i have to say their isn't one solo that i myself said "Damn i wish i created that"
And as a guitar player, and soloist, i can vouch that prince prretty much doesn't know wtf he's doing...
Best solo i've ever heard him play was the r&r rendition of MGGW, but other than that nothing...
Maybe its something only a musician can see,
But am i alone on this?

You got me wrong. Of course a guitar solo is a way of expressing your feelings. Feeling comes in the first place, always. What's so great about being a guitar player and hear somebody play a solo is that u know exactly what's going on. You follow the solo in your mind and u know exactly what techniques are used. I guess this is hard to explain to a non-musician. When I hear lousy guitar players I immediately create a different solo in my head. Like: I would have used that note or specific melody.

Those of you who complain that he doesn't play like Vai or Satriani et al. should remember that both of those guys rate Prince highly as both a guitarist and musician. I think people- especially some musicians -tend to assume that because Prince is a multi-instumentalist that he is merely 'ok' on those instruments rather than very good to excellent.