Water Baby: A Eulogy for our departed Prince

"The Man Made A Rainbow"

http://www.popmatters.com/feature/water-baby-a-eulogy-for-our-departed-prince/

Great article referencing water and it's meaning in his work - includes lyrical/song references. See Pg2 for Expressions of Desire in Prince's Art.

[Edited 6/1/16 15:59pm]

SunnyGirl8 said:

RachB65 said:

SunnyGirl8 said:

Water Baby: A Eulogy for our departed Prince

"The Man Made A Rainbow"

http://www.popmatters.com/feature/water-baby-a-eulogy-for-our-departed-prince/

Great article referencing water and it's meaning in his work.

[Edited 6/1/16 15:54pm]

Its a great article, 2 threads have been posted about it: http://prince.org/msg/7/426975 http://prince.org/msg/7/426999 [Edited 6/1/16 15:59pm]

Thanks for letting me know.

RachB65 said:

purplegirl00 said:

That's the same impression I got from her FB posts. She loved him but if there was going to be any reconcilation, it would've had to have been the right way for her. As she put it in her FB, "No getting under the sheets without marriage".

.

She was very very sick last summer and even in critical care/ICU. She pulled through it but that woman suffered A LOT. I think it's possible they would have found their way back to each other, but I wonder how would he have dealt with watching her suffer so much?

I really dont think he could have handled seeing her suffer. Her health has been precarious for a very long time time, since her overdose, kidney failure, transplant,etc..I believe that would have been one of the things that kept him from her...Perhaps its selfish but maybe he thought he couldnt take care of her n and still be free to concentrate on himself and his music. Not to mention be faithful, which he was incapable of but she needed n deserved..I remember him saying that he broke up with Mayte because he was becoming jealous and possessive of her and it took his focus off of himself and his music.. Vanity prob couldnt have children, she was the same age as him, she married someone else and became deeply religious...Their real chance had been lost years ago and then it ultimately became impossible(to him)for them to b together...

Just been thinking...i feel Prince was in poor health himself, had a hard time walking (from what i heard and saw of him) possibly needing double hip replacement, not just needing medications to pull him through it (or becoming addicted--no one knows of course!!!!!!!) so he had health issues as well is what i am trying to say and of course NO ONE KNOWS UNTIL THE AUTOPSY RESULTS the condition of his health or possibly his psyche at the time he died Also, he would have turne 58 in June..very close to being 60 yrs old!!!! Not a ''kid'' anymore...would he have wanted to be a 60 year old papa???

.

Maybe his years of planning/wanting kids may have passed for him as well, as it did for Denise?

.

I have changed my thoughts on the marriage/family thing a lot. Maybe it wasn't what was supposed to happen for him in his lifetime, obviously not or it would have happened...he tried twice to be married and have a family so......

.

I DO believe when he was married to Mayte he was happy, in love and wanting a family, i saw them on Oprah...and he was SO THRILLED about becoming a daddy and he would have loved baby Ahmir more than anything if he been given the opportunity to do that.

.

But that was a reallllly long time ago. I think he would have become a dad in the last 15-20 yrs if he wanted to (with anyone really) God knows he had enough women...and yes he could have inpregnated one-----------or ten of them if he really wanted

.

Maybe he would have slowed down, maybe he would have had no choice (health issues) and MAYBE he was really celibate ??? He and Denise's life really mirrored one anothers in the last 15 yrs...strangely enough.

.

Maybe he and Denise would have been in the same place now that they are older and more mature???

.

I believe the younger women/wife thing was him wanting to have babies.....but i feel now, that time had passed for him...just a feeling, like i said he could have had kids since Mayte...gotten married a 3rd time if he chose to but like i said maybe God was just setting the stage for his after ''life'' with Denise...cuz they were both not of this world. JMHO

.

[Edited 6/1/16 16:32pm]

GeniusLuv said:

RachB65 said:

purplegirl00 said: [/b] I really dont think he could have handled seeing her suffer. Her health has been precarious for a very long time time, since her overdose, kidney failure, transplant,etc..I believe that would have been one of the things that kept him from her...Perhaps its selfish but maybe he thought he couldnt take care of her n and still be free to concentrate on himself and his music. Not to mention be faithful, which he was incapable of but she needed n deserved..I remember him saying that he broke up with Mayte because he was becoming jealous and possessive of her and it took his focus off of himself and his music.. Vanity prob couldnt have children, she was the same age as him, she married someone else and became deeply religious...Their real chance had been lost years ago and then it ultimately became impossible(to him)for them to b together...

Just been thinking...i feel Prince was in poor health himself, had a hard time walking (from what i heard and saw of him) possibly needing double hip replacement, not just needing medications to pull him through it (or becoming addicted--no one knows of course!!!!!!!) so he had health issues as well is what i am trying to say and of course NO ONE KNOWS UNTIL THE AUTOPSY RESULTS the condition of his health or possibly his psyche at the time he died Also, he would have turne 58 in June..very close to being 60 yrs old!!!! Not a ''kid'' anymore...would he have wanted to be a 60 year old papa???

.

Maybe his years of planning/wanting kids may have passed for him as well, as it did for Denise?

.

I have changed my thoughts on the marriage/family thing a lot. Maybe it wasn't what was supposed to happen for him in his lifetime, obviously not or it would have happened...he tried twice to be married and have a family so......

.

I DO believe when he was married to Mayte he was happy, in love and wanting a family, i saw them on Oprah...and he was SO THRILLED about becoming a daddy and he would have loved baby Ahmir more than anything if he been given the opportunity to do that.

.

But that was a reallllly long time ago. I think he would have become a dad in the last 15-20 yrs if he wanted to (with anyone really) God knows he had enough women...and yes he could have inpregnated one-----------or ten of them if he really wanted

.

Maybe he would have slowed down, maybe he would have had no choice (health issues) and MAYBE he was really celibate ??? Don't know for sure, just a thought.

.

Maybe he and Denise would have been in the same place now that they are older and more mature???

.

I believe the younger women/wife thing was him wanting to have babies.....but i feel now, that time had passed for him...just a feeling, like i said he could have had kids since Mayte...gotten married a 3rd time if he chose to but like i said maybe God was just setting the stage for his after ''life'' with Denise...cuz they were both not of this world. JMHO

As he said in Way Back Home in 2014 - "I never wanted a typical life scripted role, huh...trophy wife. All I ever wanted, to b left alone".

Says it all really. He lived life well and he lived it on his terms.

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

RachB65 said:

purplegirl00 said: [/b] I really dont think he could have handled seeing her suffer. Her health has been precarious for a very long time time, since her overdose, kidney failure, transplant,etc..I believe that would have been one of the things that kept him from her...Perhaps its selfish but maybe he thought he couldnt take care of her n and still be free to concentrate on himself and his music. Not to mention be faithful, which he was incapable of but she needed n deserved..I remember him saying that he broke up with Mayte because he was becoming jealous and possessive of her and it took his focus off of himself and his music.. Vanity prob couldnt have children, she was the same age as him, she married someone else and became deeply religious...Their real chance had been lost years ago and then it ultimately became impossible(to him)for them to b together...

Just been thinking...i feel Prince was in poor health himself, had a hard time walking (from what i heard and saw of him) possibly needing double hip replacement, not just needing medications to pull him through it (or becoming addicted--no one knows of course!!!!!!!) so he had health issues as well is what i am trying to say and of course NO ONE KNOWS UNTIL THE AUTOPSY RESULTS the condition of his health or possibly his psyche at the time he died Also, he would have turne 58 in June..very close to being 60 yrs old!!!! Not a ''kid'' anymore...would he have wanted to be a 60 year old papa???

.

Maybe his years of planning/wanting kids may have passed for him as well, as it did for Denise?

.

I have changed my thoughts on the marriage/family thing a lot. Maybe it wasn't what was supposed to happen for him in his lifetime, obviously not or it would have happened...he tried twice to be married and have a family so......

.

I DO believe when he was married to Mayte he was happy, in love and wanting a family, i saw them on Oprah...and he was SO THRILLED about becoming a daddy and he would have loved baby Ahmir more than anything if he been given the opportunity to do that.

.

But that was a reallllly long time ago. I think he would have become a dad in the last 15-20 yrs if he wanted to (with anyone really) God knows he had enough women...and yes he could have inpregnated one-----------or ten of them if he really wanted

.

Maybe he would have slowed down, maybe he would have had no choice (health issues) and MAYBE he was really celibate ??? He and Denise's life really mirrored one anothers in the last 15 yrs...strangely enough.

.

Maybe he and Denise would have been in the same place now that they are older and more mature???

.

I believe the younger women/wife thing was him wanting to have babies.....but i feel now, that time had passed for him...just a feeling, like i said he could have had kids since Mayte...gotten married a 3rd time if he chose to but like i said maybe God was just setting the stage for his after ''life'' with Denise...cuz they were both not of this world. JMHO

.

[Edited 6/1/16 16:32pm]

I knew he had a cane all the time; I guess it was for walking

GeniusLuv said:

RachB65 said:

purplegirl00 said: [/b] I really dont think he could have handled seeing her suffer. Her health has been precarious for a very long time time, since her overdose, kidney failure, transplant,etc..I believe that would have been one of the things that kept him from her...Perhaps its selfish but maybe he thought he couldnt take care of her n and still be free to concentrate on himself and his music. Not to mention be faithful, which he was incapable of but she needed n deserved..I remember him saying that he broke up with Mayte because he was becoming jealous and possessive of her and it took his focus off of himself and his music.. Vanity prob couldnt have children, she was the same age as him, she married someone else and became deeply religious...Their real chance had been lost years ago and then it ultimately became impossible(to him)for them to b together...

Just been thinking...i feel Prince was in poor health himself, had a hard time walking (from what i heard and saw of him) possibly needing double hip replacement, not just needing medications to pull him through it (or becoming addicted--no one knows of course!!!!!!!) so he had health issues as well is what i am trying to say and of course NO ONE KNOWS UNTIL THE AUTOPSY RESULTS the condition of his health or possibly his psyche at the time he died Also, he would have turne 58 in June..very close to being 60 yrs old!!!! Not a ''kid'' anymore...would he have wanted to be a 60 year old papa???

.

Maybe his years of planning/wanting kids may have passed for him as well, as it did for Denise?

.

I have changed my thoughts on the marriage/family thing a lot. Maybe it wasn't what was supposed to happen for him in his lifetime, obviously not or it would have happened...he tried twice to be married and have a family so......

.

I DO believe when he was married to Mayte he was happy, in love and wanting a family, i saw them on Oprah...and he was SO THRILLED about becoming a daddy and he would have loved baby Ahmir more than anything if he been given the opportunity to do that.

.

But that was a reallllly long time ago. I think he would have become a dad in the last 15-20 yrs if he wanted to (with anyone really) God knows he had enough women...and yes he could have inpregnated one-----------or ten of them if he really wanted

.

Maybe he would have slowed down, maybe he would have had no choice (health issues) and MAYBE he was really celibate ??? He and Denise's life really mirrored one anothers in the last 15 yrs...strangely enough.

.

Maybe he and Denise would have been in the same place now that they are older and more mature???

.

I believe the younger women/wife thing was him wanting to have babies.....but i feel now, that time had passed for him...just a feeling, like i said he could have had kids since Mayte...gotten married a 3rd time if he chose to but like i said maybe God was just setting the stage for his after ''life'' with Denise...cuz they were both not of this world. JMHO

.

[Edited 6/1/16 16:32pm]

I knew he had a cane all the time; I guess it was for walking . I guess they would both be older people with their doctor's appts, and shared apparatus (canes, walkers) sounds cute to age together

purplegirl00 said:

kellyna said:

I know someone asked a few pages back, but did anyone post a link to Prince's concerts in Melbourne when he was dedicating songs to Vanity? Is there footage of it and if so, could someone post the link as I'd love to see it!

Sorry, I saw your post earlier and I was headed out the door. Note me.

Hi. Been a reader of this wonderful site since last year, but finally had to officially join after reading these wonderful posts on Prince and Vanity. I am unashamedly and hopeless romantic and always thought they would find there way back to one another. Who knows...Since as long as I can remember, I usually listen to a prince song or songs everyday. Been a fan since...4ever! The morning of 4/21, I hit play and the song that played was "I Wish U Heaven". (Have playlist of Prince on shuffle...to surprise me) Hadn't heard that one in awhile, so hit repeat to listen again. Took my dog outside, came back inside to a stream of text messages, etc. asking if I were okay? Then my sister called me and told me the sad news. Unable to listen to any of his music until last week. My ears were blessed to hear one of his Feb 17th Melbourne shows and the amazing final show in ATL. I cried. I laughed. I was in awe. It seemed at that last ATL concert, he did not want to leave the stage. I have listened to that show three times now, and it gets better and better with each listen! After reading the amazing posts about his first two shows in Melbourne, especially the first one where he was so open about Denise Matthews and dedicated that show to her, I would love to hear that concert. Just once would help me I think get back to listening and loving the man and his music and not focus so much on the sadness of the last month and 11 days. Thanks all for the super posts! Feels good to read words from those who appreciate Prince and such insight from beachy and purplegirl00! Y'all should write a book, it would be awesome! I shall keep reading these treasure chests of thoughts and asking myself why I didn't join sooner! Thanks!

wizardtelly said:

Vashtix said:

wizardtelly said:

Hearing the news

Amazing how he and Denise lived hard and died young End of a glor

Just heard report cnn, cause of death fentanyl poisoning...very sad....he was in a lot of physical pain

[Edited 6/2/16 19:03pm]

paisleypunk said:

paisleypunk said:

Vashtix said:

wizardtelly said: Amazing how he and Denise lived hard and died young End of a glor

Just heard report cnn, cause of death fentanyl poisoning...very sad....he was in a lot of physical pain

[Edited 6/2/16 19:03pm]

Yuuuuuuuup this news totally bummed me out chronic pain is horrible.

Vashtix said:

paisleypunk said:

Just heard report cnn, cause of death fentanyl poisoning...very sad....he was in a lot of physical pain

[Edited 6/2/16 19:03pm]

So, so sad I'm glad he is no longer suffering But it hurts and his death is fresh again

I agree, and Vanity was in so much pain too towards the end. If there is a silver lining, they are both in heaven free from pain.

purplegirl00 said:

benni said:

.

Yes, and I am pointing out that you all are reaching on a lot of this. Trying to say The Holy River was about Denise, or other songs on Emancipation, when the whole album was centered around his getting freedom from WB and his relationship with Mayte. I do not believe Denise was his twin soul, nor that they had similar paths in life. And since this is a message board and posts are open to all to post and voice their opinions, I am merely pointing out the fallacy of some of the arguments about just how in love with Denise Prince was. When in his own words, his own voice, he stated he had never been this much in love as he was with Mayte. Also, purplegirl asked for more information and sources, which I gave her. Would you rather I ignore her?

Thanks for not ignoring. I went to watch the interview. Yes, he did say what you said he said, but that was 20 years ago. Let me make this clear... I am NOT saying he didn't care or love her, but he did have the marriage ANULLED. That is NOT something you do to your soulmate. That's just the truth. I have never had ANY ill will towards Mayte and in fact, I think she got the raw end of the deal- in the worse way (loss of their baby and then marriage anulled). I really FEEL for her and she is NOT any less of a woman because of it. On this thread we have been discussing Prince and his connection to Denise throughout the years and while you think it's reaching, fallacy, or don't agree that they had similar paths in life, doesn't mean that they weren't there. Their relationship took place over 30 years ago. That's enough time for him to have gotten her out of his system for good. Yet, THIS year, 2016, she dies. He pours his heart out in a tribute concert in Melbourne and then again in concerts afterwards. He says things that you would not expect a man to say about woman he was with 30+ years ago. Then weeks later, he's gone. I am NOT saying she was THE main reason for his death, but it's AWFULLY close to be only coincidence.

[Edited 5/31/16 19:07pm]

Agreed....and why would you got o a thread that is obviously to discuss his and Denise's connection to stir up sh*t...why not start your own thread on your own topic....smh...none of us will know his heart but he himself, and no matter what any of us say or think, whatever the truth was will remain so....he was by all accounts an amazing human being and the facts are that he himself broke into tears and spoke of Denise @ the Melbourne concert...'her and I loved each other deeply'....he remained in touch with her over 30 years, he did not do so with Mayte nor Manuella...yet people dispute what he said himself and the emotions he poured out in his tribute to Denise...

benni said:

Vashtix said:

We have to agree to disagree because I do not believe it was coincidence

.

And you are free to believe that, I simply disagree. Did he love Denise? Yes. However, Prince was a man who knew what he wanted and he usually got what he wanted. If he had wanted to continue the relationship with Denise, he would have moved mountains to make it happen. The fact he didn't says more to me than anything else. But again, you all can go ahead with exploring this and you'll believe what you want to believe. The fact remains, no one will ever truly know the full truth and everything is conjecture in regards to this, because the only person that can truly say what his intent was and the meanings of what he sang about, is no longer here to share that with us. Again, we'll each see what we want to see in his music. For me, I see him singing more about God and Spiritual Love, than I do any physical love. In fact, in many of his interviews he stated that many of his songs were not about sex, or the physical, but was about the spiritual. But even he knew people took from his music what they wanted to focus on and artist intent was never big on their experience of the songs.

He remained in contact with Denise over 30 years yet did not with his ex-wives....that says a lot...out of his own mouth and emotional tribute to Denise 'we loved each other deeply'...yet you go on to diminish it....why not start your own thread about Mayte then...we see things differently

30yearfan said:

wizardtelly said:

Vashtix said: Me neither! That's why it's sad as well. I think he could respect a woman his age, such as her of all people. However, I don't think at this phase of life he would settle for one especially because of intimacy. Do you think he still wanted children? I believe so, despite the tragedy. I believe younger women kept him going.

Yeah but so much of what we saw with Prince was image driven. He was seen with a lot of young woman but he was professing that he was celibate. I think he appeared with a lot of young woman to help promote their careers and increase their profiles. I don't think a lot of these women were actual girlfriends I think they were friends, aspiring musicians that he believed in, and companions. We have a image of him having to be with all these sexy young women but it might not have been the case privately. Remember when he married Mani it took a long time for the public to become aware of it. He seemed to keep a lot of his private life on the down low. Had they lived longer I could definitely see him performing occasionally and moving to that house of the island with her if they could have ever gotten on the same page. Songs like Walk in Sand and Sea of Everything seem to speak to a gentle quiet life that he may have been looking for as he got older.

beautifully put, thank you

.

I believe the younger women/wife thing was him wanting to have babies....

.

[Edited 6/1/16 16:32pm]

This would really make sense from an Evolutionary Psychology perspective. Yes I think when Mayte was pregnant he really was thrilled to start a family and I do believe he loved her and thought she would have been a wonderful mother (Mayte totally gives off that nurturing, warm, loving vibe). Actually maybe on a subconcious level Prince felt Denise was not a "mothering" type and that is one of the reasons he didn't invest too heavily into building a life with her. It is a very sexist presumtion but thousands of years of anthropological/evoutionary programing is hard to erase. Denise had a lot of issues from her past that probably would hinder successful, healthy parenting and I think Prince could clearly see that, although at the time when he was young I don't think he was particularly interest in beginning a family either. That isn't to say I think he didn't loved Denise...I think his love for her was actually deeper than we would assume. Almost like a kindred spirit...but their lives just were not going to mesh at the time to build a successful relationship.

I am really surprised to see how this thread has grown....as a Prince fan I thought the Prince/Vanity relationship was very glamorized/romantasized by the fans and media and I thought there were actually other women who he loved more in his life...but with both their passing...I realized that his love for her was deeper than I thought and they bonded over their tough childhoods and their was almost a karmic framiliarity between them.

Maybe it was reading Alex Hahn's book that made me think the Prince/Vanity love was oversold to the fans and it said Vanity's demener was too brash, and too wild and it offened Prince's sensibilites ....I definatly think he had a "Madonna/Whore" complex thing going on like most men (unfortunatly, I know)...yet evoloutionalry wise, men have always relied on this to sift out where to put their resources to ensure their genes would survive. Since paternity could never be presumed in the past men would observe a woman's behavoir for clues in whether or not they could trust her that she was bearing "their" child and not someone elses. Maybe Prince deep down could sense this with Denise and it influenced how their relationship played out, on some level. It was reported he was the jealous/posessive type and I'm sure her sexiness/outgoing behavior provoked a lot of insecurites in him. But yes, I feel like now...I'm sure he thought she was really his "soul mate".

I just heard Jelous Girl that was supposed to be on the second Vanity 6 album http://prince-taught-me.tumblr.com/ it sounds great

Just thought I'd let you all know that Kiss by Prince - it also has a mirror and he's in it with the girl in the veil that dances around. This must be another of Vanity's songs too. Thanks for helping to work this out and crack the code (the "mirror theme")

(see thread: Prince:Music & More> Prince & Vanity Were Talking Through Mirrors & Did Prince Get His Girl?)

[Edited 6/4/16 14:49pm]

I think its because with all the latest news on the findings dominating the Prince & Music forum (which the majority of the fans are focusing on) they felt maybe it belonged more in the Associated artists & People.

where's beachy?

Hi All

.

This is an update about Vanity's 'mirror theme'. The thread which discusses this is locked so I can't update it. See Prince:Music & More> Prince & Vanity Were Talking Through Mirrors & Did Prince Get His Girl? http://prince.org/msg/7/426877

.

I've found a couple of new examples:

- Kiss (1986) - Prince and the dancer in veil are in a mirror at different points through the video. Poses in mirror look similar to their Rolling Stone cover. This looks like one of Vanity's songs.

.

- Eye Hate U (1995) - The opening shot of the video has Mayte laying down with one of her legs in the air and she's reflected in a mirror. Again, this looks like one of Vanity's songs.

.

- 7 (1992) - This appears to be a Vanity inspired song and is about Prince and Vanity (as the 2 characters of the song) going through Revelation (from the Bible) together. This would make sense, as the timeframe (Sept 1991 - Mar 1992) aligns with Vanity's heavier involvement with her faith and it would appear that Prince is expressing his common religious understanding to her.

.

The video starts with Mayte whispering a story to Prince "Imagine. Imagine a mirror with a little girl crying inside, the sole heir to a $10M estate that her father left behind. Imagine several men with ??? who watch her every move." You then see Mayte in the mirror with Prince looking on. She then whispers in his ear "As her heart grows colder and colder until she meets you." Again, this is like all the other 'Vanity mirror videos' where different women essentially reflect Vanity's character on the screen.

.

The verses tell the story of Revelation and what Prince and Vanity will go through. See this link, scroll down to "Moonshine" and you'll see the biblical interpretation. http://prince.org/msg/7/143044

.

The chorus of the story re the 2 characters (Prince & Vanity) is "I am yours now and u are mine and together we'll love through all space and time".

.

This concept of "space and time" lyrically refers to the notion of a very deep, profound, romantic love - one that transcends this realm/lifetime (ie. a past, present and future preordained connection). It comes up repeatedly re Vanity/Denise.

.

You will see similar lyrics reappear in Adore (1987) "until the end of time I'll be there for you", When I Lay My Hands On U (2000) "like an echo inside your space and time", Here (2009) re Donny Hathaway's Song 4 U and Revelation (2015) etc that are songs that have been formally dedicated to her by Prince or appear to be written about her.

.

Just wanted to say, nice to talk to all of you on this thread! I've got to get back to real life now! All the best

[Edited 6/23/16 19:57pm]

30yearfan said:

30yearfan said:

HOPE35 said:

I think his debilitating physical pain coupled with his deep sadness and emotional pain over her dying cuz like he said now it was time for ''a new story'' was really just the beginning of the end for him....

I really believe that. The crippling pain, the fentanyl addiction (thats what we know now)and her loss (same day as his moms too) must have just really brought him closer to the end?? Remember, the week before, he od'ed and had to be revived...maybe he just didn't have the fight in him anymore to go on