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Reply #2100 posted 05/31/16 9:04pm

Vashtix

benni said:

purplegirl00 said:

It's essentially the same pick up line, make into whatever you like. I don't why you keep using the word "conjecture"- there's not conjecture here. Sure we've disected lyrics and videos that might have some tie- negative & positive. But when we've brought up the possibility of Denise having been the love of his life we connect to things Prince ACTUALLY SAID- HIS OWN WORDS STRAIGHT OUT OF HIS MOUTH, in a recent concerts before his death- about Vanity/Denise. It's not about wanting to find anything, it's there. Peace, I'm outta here.

[Edited 5/31/16 20:41pm]

.

It is conjecture when you are analyzing the lyrics and trying to tie everything back to Denise. As for what Prince said, his own words straight out of his mouth, you dismiss what he said about Mayte as a "pick up line", but take what he said about Denise as gospel. You can't pick and chose what you accept from Prince's words. As for what he said in his recent concerts, he stated that he had lost someone dear to him. And he dedicated songs to her. The term "dear to us" does not imply a "love of a life time" to me. Unless there were other words spoken besides sharing certain memories. It sounded to me like he was merely reminiscing, remembering the good times, with fondness someone who had meant something to him in the past and that he was pained at her passing. Why try to make it into something more?

Benni,

Why do you find it offensive to allow me to believe for myself that the there was a connection btwn Denise and Prince? I can allow and respect what you are saying about the other women without bashing how you feel. Why do you feel the need to bash?

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Reply #2101 posted 05/31/16 9:09pm

Vashtix

benni said:

Vashtix said:

We have to agree to disagree because I do not believe it was coincidence

.

And you are free to believe that, I simply disagree. Did he love Denise? Yes. However, Prince was a man who knew what he wanted and he usually got what he wanted. If he had wanted to continue the relationship with Denise, he would have moved mountains to make it happen. The fact he didn't says more to me than anything else. But again, you all can go ahead with exploring this and you'll believe what you want to believe. The fact remains, no one will ever truly know the full truth and everything is conjecture in regards to this, because the only person that can truly say what his intent was and the meanings of what he sang about, is no longer here to share that with us. Again, we'll each see what we want to see in his music. For me, I see him singing more about God and Spiritual Love, than I do any physical love. In fact, in many of his interviews he stated that many of his songs were not about sex, or the physical, but was about the spiritual. But even he knew people took from his music what they wanted to focus on and artist intent was never big on their experience of the songs.

This thread is not gospel but opinions did you read the first page of the thread? It has has helped me get through my own mourning over Prince- who are you to try to take that from me? it is not coincidence for me the deaths of Denise and Prince for me and that is not belittling to his wives or lovers.

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Reply #2102 posted 05/31/16 9:13pm

benni

RachB65 said:

benni said:

.

The "bad selves" was not meant in a bad way. As for a pick-up line, I don't think so. He didn't say that Vanity was his soul mate, rather she was a lot like him "female version of himself". I have a dear friend that I feel is the male version of myself, meaning that we have a lot of the same ideologies, same thought processes, but he's not a soul mate.

Anullment is definitely gentler than divorce. Ever been divorced? It creates a lot of negative energy and negative outcomes. And I am not arguing with who is his "soul mate" because there is no argument to be had. Prince said it himself and I'll trust his words over conjecture.

Take care and have fun with your explorations! You seem to be finding what you want to find. I guess that is all that's important, right?

Their annulment wasnt official.There was an article with them in the Marbella house right after said anullment, which he said was for spiritual reasons and that they were to remarry.. Then he left her Spain and started hooking up with Mani, his future'soulmate'. Prince and Mayte were DIVORCED in 2000. Obviously Mayte wasnt a true soulmate as he got rid of her quick enough and moved on, and had very little contact with her ever again. In contrast, Denise left HIM and he tried on and off to get her back for years...

.

Sources for the "he tried on and off to get her back for years" and his most recent attempts?

.

And yes, we always tend to want the one that doesn't want us, but that doesn't make them our soul mate. Again, don't pick and choose which of Prince's words you want to believe. He stated Mayte was his soul mate, and seeing them together, I would believe that. What I saw with Denise was a lot of heart ache and a lot of pain. I'm sure they were happy together for a time, but they seemed to bring out the worst in each other.

.

And what Prince said in concert was, "“Her and I used to love each other deeply. She loved me for the artist I was, I loved her for the artist she was trying to be." "used to love" is past tense and doesn't sound like a lifetime love affair. "She loved me for the artist I was, I loved her for the artist she was trying to be" sounds like they loved the creative sides of each other.

.

As for her "being the female version of him", that is one of the stories from around that time. The other was that Prince wanted to name her "Vagina" and she rejected that name, so he called "Vanity", because (also from the recent concert), "“She and I would fight. She was very headstrong cos she knew she was the finest woman in the world. She never missed an opportunity to tell you that,” which is in keeping with the idea of "Vanity" and may have been where the name actually came from. Please give me the source in which he said that she was the female version of himself. While I have heard that said, I've never seen the source of it.

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Reply #2103 posted 05/31/16 9:20pm

benni

Vashtix said:

benni said:

.

It is conjecture when you are analyzing the lyrics and trying to tie everything back to Denise. As for what Prince said, his own words straight out of his mouth, you dismiss what he said about Mayte as a "pick up line", but take what he said about Denise as gospel. You can't pick and chose what you accept from Prince's words. As for what he said in his recent concerts, he stated that he had lost someone dear to him. And he dedicated songs to her. The term "dear to us" does not imply a "love of a life time" to me. Unless there were other words spoken besides sharing certain memories. It sounded to me like he was merely reminiscing, remembering the good times, with fondness someone who had meant something to him in the past and that he was pained at her passing. Why try to make it into something more?

Benni,

Why do you find it offensive to allow me to believe for myself that the there was a connection btwn Denise and Prince? I can allow and respect what you are saying about the other women without bashing how you feel. Why do you feel the need to bash?

.

Excuse me, but how am I bashing you? I haven't said anything negative about you. In fact, I said you are free to believe what you wish to believe. I've merely been comparing the idea of Vanity as his soul mate vs. Mayte as his soul mate. I'm not sure where you get that I'm bashing you?? And I'm not offended by what you believe, by what any of you believe and don't know why you think I'm offended. Again, I'm merely comparing Vanity vs. Mayte (who he said was) as soul mates.

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Reply #2104 posted 05/31/16 9:22pm

benni

Vashtix said:

benni said:

.

It is conjecture when you are analyzing the lyrics and trying to tie everything back to Denise. As for what Prince said, his own words straight out of his mouth, you dismiss what he said about Mayte as a "pick up line", but take what he said about Denise as gospel. You can't pick and chose what you accept from Prince's words. As for what he said in his recent concerts, he stated that he had lost someone dear to him. And he dedicated songs to her. The term "dear to us" does not imply a "love of a life time" to me. Unless there were other words spoken besides sharing certain memories. It sounded to me like he was merely reminiscing, remembering the good times, with fondness someone who had meant something to him in the past and that he was pained at her passing. Why try to make it into something more?

Benni,

Why do you find it offensive to allow me to believe for myself that the there was a connection btwn Denise and Prince? I can allow and respect what you are saying about the other women without bashing how you feel. Why do you feel the need to bash?

.

And that post was in reply to purplegirl, not you.

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Reply #2105 posted 05/31/16 9:31pm

benni

Vashtix said:

benni said:

.

And you are free to believe that, I simply disagree. Did he love Denise? Yes. However, Prince was a man who knew what he wanted and he usually got what he wanted. If he had wanted to continue the relationship with Denise, he would have moved mountains to make it happen. The fact he didn't says more to me than anything else. But again, you all can go ahead with exploring this and you'll believe what you want to believe. The fact remains, no one will ever truly know the full truth and everything is conjecture in regards to this, because the only person that can truly say what his intent was and the meanings of what he sang about, is no longer here to share that with us. Again, we'll each see what we want to see in his music. For me, I see him singing more about God and Spiritual Love, than I do any physical love. In fact, in many of his interviews he stated that many of his songs were not about sex, or the physical, but was about the spiritual. But even he knew people took from his music what they wanted to focus on and artist intent was never big on their experience of the songs.

This thread is not gospel but opinions did you read the first page of the thread? It has has helped me get through my own mourning over Prince- who are you to try to take that from me? it is not coincidence for me the deaths of Denise and Prince for me and that is not belittling to his wives or lovers.

.

I'm not taking anything from you, Vashtix, nor am I trying to take anything from you. Again, you are free to believe whatever you wish to believe. As for opinions, when I stated that all of this was "conjecture" (opinion) I was called out on that and told this was not conjecture, but was "Prince's own words". If it makes you feel better to think that Prince died because of Denise dying, and if you truly believe that, then nothing I say can ever take that away from you.

.

The only reason I had posted (because I had not been interested in posting on this thread) was when I saw people trying to link The Holy River to Denise, when the song was about Mayte. I felt that was trying to minimize Mayte's importance in his life, and obviously for him to have written The Holy River about her, she was an important piece of his life. And those saying that "he got rid of her two years after they married, doesn't say much about being a soul mate," keep in mind that they had lost a child and after a loss like that, divorce happens too frequently because the couples don't know how to grieve together or deal with that loss together. It has nothing to do with whether she was or was not a soul mate. So while you may not be minimizing other relationships he had, it seems that others on this thread definitely are.

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Reply #2106 posted 05/31/16 9:53pm

RachB65

benni said:



RachB65 said:


benni said:


.


The "bad selves" was not meant in a bad way. As for a pick-up line, I don't think so. He didn't say that Vanity was his soul mate, rather she was a lot like him "female version of himself". I have a dear friend that I feel is the male version of myself, meaning that we have a lot of the same ideologies, same thought processes, but he's not a soul mate.

Anullment is definitely gentler than divorce. Ever been divorced? It creates a lot of negative energy and negative outcomes. And I am not arguing with who is his "soul mate" because there is no argument to be had. Prince said it himself and I'll trust his words over conjecture.

Take care and have fun with your explorations! You seem to be finding what you want to find. I guess that is all that's important, right?



Their annulment wasnt official.There was an article with them in the Marbella house right after said anullment, which he said was for spiritual reasons and that they were to remarry.. Then he left her Spain and started hooking up with Mani, his future'soulmate'. Prince and Mayte were DIVORCED in 2000. Obviously Mayte wasnt a true soulmate as he got rid of her quick enough and moved on, and had very little contact with her ever again. In contrast, Denise left HIM and he tried on and off to get her back for years...

.


Sources for the "he tried on and off to get her back for years" and his most recent attempts?


.


And yes, we always tend to want the one that doesn't want us, but that doesn't make them our soul mate. Again, don't pick and choose which of Prince's words you want to believe. He stated Mayte was his soul mate, and seeing them together, I would believe that. What I saw with Denise was a lot of heart ache and a lot of pain. I'm sure they were happy together for a time, but they seemed to bring out the worst in each other.


.


And what Prince said in concert was, "“Her and I used to love each other deeply. She loved me for the artist I was, I loved her for the artist she was trying to be." "used to love" is past tense and doesn't sound like a lifetime love affair. "She loved me for the artist I was, I loved her for the artist she was trying to be" sounds like they loved the creative sides of each other.


.


As for her "being the female version of him", that is one of the stories from around that time. The other was that Prince wanted to name her "Vagina" and she rejected that name, so he called "Vanity", because (also from the recent concert), "“She and I would fight. She was very headstrong cos she knew she was the finest woman in the world. She never missed an opportunity to tell you that,” which is in keeping with the idea of "Vanity" and may have been where the name actually came from. Please give me the source in which he said that she was the female version of himself. While I have heard that said, I've never seen the source of it.


Nikki Sixx claims in his book that Prince tried to get her back when he was dating her, in 1987, 4 years after she left him. I do not know of any recent attempts. I personally believe that her illnesses, her age(yes, as fucked up as that is) n different religious direction deterred him from pursuing her in later life. But if all these lyrics and videos, etc DO refer to or are about Denise, then their connection, their love and tragic cross purposes are lived out vividly and quite beautifully, sometimes obscurely, sometimes not, in the realm of his art. His muse from the most definitive time of his life, The Purple Rain phenomenon, was THEIR story. When she died that narrative was over forever. So creatively too, as well as romantically, the story was over. And since his whole life was his music this had to be a huge loss..

His taste in women was also sealed with Vanity. Hell, his last wife looked alot like her...He didnt date any women in the last 25 yrs that were his equal in age or status...He wanted women he could control. In life, Denise and Prince werent truly compatible when they were together but definitely karmically connected, b it a twin soul or flame. I believe that because the two dont often end up together, it isnt even always a romantic connection(twin souls)..And many times they dont even incarnate on Earth at the same time. Their lives intersected very meaningfully at one time and they broke up, yet always continued to love n miss one another without actually being together. Until now. And maybe the next time around..who knows...

[Edited 5/31/16 21:54pm]
[Edited 5/31/16 22:03pm]
"Almost all art is trying to become an anaesthetic and at the same time a healing session drawing up the magical electrics.”
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Reply #2107 posted 05/31/16 11:04pm

30yearfan

I was listening to the Beautiful ones performance from the Melbourne show where Prince stated that Vanity knew about that song. I think it's amazing that she knew about the songs that he wrote about her and she did not once publicly claim that they were about her. I think that speaks volumes about her character and her love for him.

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Reply #2108 posted 06/01/16 12:27am

SunnyGirl8

30yearfan said:

I was listening to the Beautiful ones performance from the Melbourne show where Prince stated that Vanity knew about that song. I think it's amazing that she knew about the songs that he wrote about her and she did not once publicly claim that they were about her. I think that speaks volumes about her character and her love for him.

I completely agree. But having said that it's also part of the reason for all the confusion.

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Reply #2109 posted 06/01/16 12:35am

sunset3121

I didn't open this thread for ages because I didn't think he could be very depressed about a relationship from such a long time ago. He clearly loved Mayte and Mani when he got together with them. However, it seems (looking from the outside) that his feelings for his wives could not be sustained long term. His line "I never wanted a typical life, a scripted role, huh, a trophy wife" seems quite disrespectful of these marriages. I imagine Prince was a very complex and difficult man to live with. Can you imagine being brought up in a family that would turn a 12 year old out on the streets. That is some baggage. The other siblings seem to have more tha their fair share of problems too.

However, Denise seems to be the one that got away. He wasn't over her when she left him. Denise was more his equal than his wives. She knew her value and yet she was still vulnerable and needy. Did she inspire the change of direction at Dirty Mind? It is clear he did not get over the split easily. Imagine trying to get your ex back 4 years later when they are with someone else! He didn't move on despite all the other women.

I don't see the link to Denise in Holy River. It seems to be about Mayte but that is not a normal love song. The guy seemed very messed up (at the time ). It seems more that he is putting his faith in religion, love and marriage to escape his demons. I watched an interview with his cousin who said Prince used to drive through red lights whilst the passengers begged to be let out. He always seemed a tortured soul.

Black Muse seems to be about her though and Rocknroll loveaffair I would guess is about her too:

"She believed in fairy tales and princes
He believed the voices coming from his stereo
He believed in rock and roll

She left her past and those lilly white fences
And headed out to hollywood in search of her soul
But she had to pay the toll (yes she did)

They were bound to find each other
He needed proof, she needed a brother
That’s when stars collide
When there’s space for what you want
And your heart is open wide"

and

"She wanted to see her name appear on the big screen
He just wanted to hear her scream his name
Can you scream my name? Do you know what i mean?

This kind of love don’t come from a prayer
Ain’t talking rebound, born of despair"

I guess they both had too much pride and ambition (and too many demons) when they were young but loved each other intensely and never fully got over the loss of each other.

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Reply #2110 posted 06/01/16 1:06am

wildgoldenhone
y

doh! RNR disbelief
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Reply #2111 posted 06/01/16 1:07am

wildgoldenhone
y

She needed a brother... because she is a JW and JW only marries within the congregations.

SO, therefore, u can rule out this song as being about vanity because she was not a JW.
[Edited 6/1/16 2:02am]
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Reply #2112 posted 06/01/16 1:54am

wizardtelly

benni said:



Vashtix said:




benni said:



.


It is conjecture when you are analyzing the lyrics and trying to tie everything back to Denise. As for what Prince said, his own words straight out of his mouth, you dismiss what he said about Mayte as a "pick up line", but take what he said about Denise as gospel. You can't pick and chose what you accept from Prince's words. As for what he said in his recent concerts, he stated that he had lost someone dear to him. And he dedicated songs to her. The term "dear to us" does not imply a "love of a life time" to me. Unless there were other words spoken besides sharing certain memories. It sounded to me like he was merely reminiscing, remembering the good times, with fondness someone who had meant something to him in the past and that he was pained at her passing. Why try to make it into something more?



Benni,



Why do you find it offensive to allow me to believe for myself that the there was a connection btwn Denise and Prince? I can allow and respect what you are saying about the other women without bashing how you feel. Why do you feel the need to bash?



.


Excuse me, but how am I bashing you? I haven't said anything negative about you. In fact, I said you are free to believe what you wish to believe. I've merely been comparing the idea of Vanity as his soul mate vs. Mayte as his soul mate. I'm not sure where you get that I'm bashing you?? And I'm not offended by what you believe, by what any of you believe and don't know why you think I'm offended. Again, I'm merely comparing Vanity vs. Mayte (who he said was) as soul mates.



Please stop bringing up Mayte in this page for reasons of progression. The world does not revolve around her, nor does the research many people are doing to figure out his relationship with Denise.
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Reply #2113 posted 06/01/16 1:56am

wizardtelly

benni said:



Vashtix said:




benni said:



.


And you are free to believe that, I simply disagree. Did he love Denise? Yes. However, Prince was a man who knew what he wanted and he usually got what he wanted. If he had wanted to continue the relationship with Denise, he would have moved mountains to make it happen. The fact he didn't says more to me than anything else. But again, you all can go ahead with exploring this and you'll believe what you want to believe. The fact remains, no one will ever truly know the full truth and everything is conjecture in regards to this, because the only person that can truly say what his intent was and the meanings of what he sang about, is no longer here to share that with us. Again, we'll each see what we want to see in his music. For me, I see him singing more about God and Spiritual Love, than I do any physical love. In fact, in many of his interviews he stated that many of his songs were not about sex, or the physical, but was about the spiritual. But even he knew people took from his music what they wanted to focus on and artist intent was never big on their experience of the songs.



This thread is not gospel but opinions did you read the first page of the thread? It has has helped me get through my own mourning over Prince- who are you to try to take that from me? it is not coincidence for me the deaths of Denise and Prince for me and that is not belittling to his wives or lovers.



.


I'm not taking anything from you, Vashtix, nor am I trying to take anything from you. Again, you are free to believe whatever you wish to believe. As for opinions, when I stated that all of this was "conjecture" (opinion) I was called out on that and told this was not conjecture, but was "Prince's own words". If it makes you feel better to think that Prince died because of Denise dying, and if you truly believe that, then nothing I say can ever take that away from you.


.


The only reason I had posted (because I had not been interested in posting on this thread) was when I saw people trying to link The Holy River to Denise, when the song was about Mayte. I felt that was trying to minimize Mayte's importance in his life, and obviously for him to have written The Holy River about her, she was an important piece of his life. And those saying that "he got rid of her two years after they married, doesn't say much about being a soul mate," keep in mind that they had lost a child and after a loss like that, divorce happens too frequently because the couples don't know how to grieve together or deal with that loss together. It has nothing to do with whether she was or was not a soul mate. So while you may not be minimizing other relationships he had, it seems that others on this thread definitely are.




This thread is not one that bashes Mayte, nor does it give her unnecessary attention for opinion purposes/biases as your own. Please check the title and the dynamic of the thread. This is not a fan-fiction thread nor is it based on preferential bias, but symbolism and deconstructing the artistry and personal life of Prince.
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Reply #2114 posted 06/01/16 3:17am

wizardtelly

benni said:

Also, you all are neglecting the fact that when he first saw Mayte, he stated that he had just seen his future wife. He was completely smitten with her from first sight.


.


We all have experienced more than one love in our life, or most of us have. Each relationship prepares us for the next. We learn more about ourselves as we grow through each relationship and about what we want and don't want. Prince and Denise were perfect for each other when they were young, and while they were together. But as we grown and mature, we change. Denise was not the same woman Prince had originally fallen in love with, nor was he the same man Denise had fallen in love with. Who is to say that who they became would have even been interested in the other.


.


As with all young loves, we tend to idealize that person and remember the good. But often when we get back with that person, we discover that person has changed and we no longer know them. Not only do we no longer know them, but we may find there are too many differences between us now to ever bridge the gap of years that may have passed.


.


It's nice to romanticize a relationship, but often the reality is much different. Denise and Prince were no longer together for a reason and obviously Prince had no further desire to get back with Denise, nor she him, since they were not together. Yes, he loved who Denise had been to him, loved the memories, and he mourned her passing. Just as he would have done if it had been Mayte or Mani, or any other woman he had been intimate with and had such a serious relationship with. I have mourned the passing of an ex, and was deeply saddened by his passing, but that does not mean that I lamented the fact that we were no longer together. He was a part of my life at one time, a significant part of it, but he was an "ex" for a reason. Just as Prince was an ex for Denise for a reason, and Denise was an ex for Prince for a reason. Yes, they always loved each other. Real love never dies, but that does not mean the two belonged together. They were making each other miserable and unhappy and causing each other a lot of stress and pain. That is not a happy relationship.



No one is neglecting that, he actually said that about Sheila E. So if used to Mayte, it was a line that he used a decade plus before her.


Prince was brilliant but he also lied a lot in the media. The 90s were a time of great confusion, and many of their interviews from the time are incredibly insincere. For example, the Oprah incident where they blatantly lied about the baby, understandable for personal triumph, but also a perpetuated lie. As we have analyzed, him and Denise could not be together for plenty of reasons. Prince's answers to "moving on" in life reflected much of her life. Someone of Prince's calibars would not just "dedicate a whole show" to someone they metaphorically not been with in 30+ odd years. Prince made it incredulously clear that he didn't look back, but in a career of 40 years, he started to reflect again. He's not mentioned the woman you are continuously thrusting into this in 17 years, much to her demise. She is clearly currently expressing her troubles and grief. Take into account her age, as well, when they met. A large portion of their relationship was a facade at face value and whilst the claim is the troubled pregnancy or two thrusted them apart, it also solidified other issues. I want to clarify that it is possible to respect her relationship to Prince without bringing her into a thread that has nothing (purposely) to do about her. It's quite ludicrous, to be honest. I understand she was once his wife, but your opinions are slightly invalid because he used that marriage and soul mate line to other women, on a regular basis. He did the same behavior to Sheila E and Nona Gaye, as well as a handful others. We are purposely looking in depth at all of his relationships (ones we are aware of) respectably, and continuously one thing has been clear, "Vanity" had a special place.

I'm not sure why Prince/MAYTE fans are continuously living in a state of delusion and fairytale, not saying you are, but it's absurd. People forget that Prince was an adult when meeting her, Prince was Prince before Mayte, hence why we look back on life from the different stages/eras of his to tie in fact, his music, content, and life. Prince, he found solace in youth (Anna Garcia being the primitive example). I understand that he married Mayte but that on the greater scheme means quite little because he also quickly married Manuela, which supports the known information of her actually being in "the picture" from 1998 rather than just 2000. As mentioned the age, that is an increasingly telling reason why they married. I know the story is perpetuated by Garcia as "we met when I was 16,my mom gave him the tape and we became good friends/kept in contact and it evolved," but without a doubt in my mind, their marriage represented possession. What I and others have respectfully refrained from doing has been not belittling his relationships to other people. It is only commentary like this that is off putting because it seems people don't respect or understand that he existed before her. Prince had a story, and albeit what many folks like to ignore, that story was readily based around Denise and Vanity. Mayte is from a time where Prince changed a lot, as well. The mysticism and enlightenment he had been reflecting on during this period also comes across as a snarky way of saying, "he's happy," in an extremely pretentious and false way. Watching their interviews, as stated, makes it quite clear that something I'm sure they were both happily enamored by was partially a fantasy. Mayte, young and beautiful, wasn't under the jurisdiction of Prince, but also his celebrity. In other words, how is someone your soulmate and they're not allowed to call you on the phone, call you by your birth name for protesting reasons, and others? She, with all due respect, like many women Prince was with, was merely a love based on inflation of the ego. Also, he had helped Denise with finances through royalties after she became engulfed in Christianity. Newly Christian when her health took a turn for the worst, he purposely used a sample of her moaning, and what is known to be her having an orgasm on his album Come. The interlude/song was volatile and explicit, featuring a newly paired Prince (dating Mayte) taunting "his" Vanity with sexually suggestive content and 'dirty-talking' the newly crowned Christian with lust, giving her direction, and re-introducing us all, and her, to a world that used to be. That signified a lot, and of all samples, he chose that one. That's not Prince simply being perverse, sexual, or spiritual, that was him displaying pain at full value in form of domination.

I want you to also. Know that Prince openly discussed Denise whilst being married to his wife, claiming how everyone thought they'd marry. He used irrelevant conversations and moments to speak of "Vanity" (newly returned as Denise at the time) whilst with his wife. I'm not understanding why people continue to believe that we are downplaying his relationship to anyone, specifically Mayte. As I said, Prince's story figuratively started from his childhood up until the late 80's. Adolescence, to family life, to childhood experiences, to teenage years, life with the Cymone's/freedom, music, Warner Brothers, the 70s, the 80's, successes, love, heartbreak, accomplishment, exponential fame, love and loss, the chase, and the end of an era. Prince renounced his name and much of his prior life during the next period, so his story took a much different route. Mayte's significance is one I won't argue on for the next chapter, but I will say one can argue that this was the period of much triumph spiritually, albeit it seemingly being the one he was trying to project as the most radical and important at the time. I like to call it "Celebrity Syndrome" where-in you reach a pinnacle of fame and success, and things start to derail. Now, Prince's genius was music not keeping up with the record industry because the decade before: he was the music industry. His impact, alone, allowed that he never have to write a song ever again had he never wanted to and still gain fame. Prince was also growing up, and after having a close relationship with Larry Graham, I think a lot changed for him both mentally and spiritually, and it is clear it then wasn't just the failed pregnancy and the death of his ill infant alone that progressed his story. Based on what has been configured, respectfully, Prince suffered a great deal. I understand the marriage was that of a poster of perfection, beauty, and fairytale enchantment, but Prince was an escapist if looking at much of this from a psychological stand-point and it makes sense for that time. I think much fans of him and her are stuck also in that illusion, again, I'm not disrespecting him/her and their bond at the time, but I am stating what he afterwards expressed to his supporters(music supporters) in little to no actual words, by igniting a severe change. Prince made some great music in the 90's at certain points, but I think he was also conflicted because artistically, after The Most Beautiful Girl In The World, there was a lot personally going on.


The period between 1999 and 2003, it is there we start to see a slowly maturing version of Prince. That year, was the last he appeared at side of his first wife who he had annulled with the year prior, and then formally divorced after. I'm not sure, but Prince grew exponentially after that relationship ended and he was with Manuela. We begin to see Prince continuing the triumphant story of self-discovery, and dropping a facade that had been attached to him for a long time. I think as he grew into more faith, he found the man he always wanted to be or saw himself as. In retrospect, it comes to be clear that the 90's and his relationship to Mayte becomes one of taboo, and he brushes it in the past as a lesson learned whilst happily in love with his wife Manuela. I'm sure parts of her relationship was "bizarre" as Mayte described hers, but she's always been quite private and it is the first time in a long time he displays love with passion and without the luster of fantasy. I believe he returned to himself when he did Musicology. Prince changed a lot, and if you have watched interviews from that period you can see for yourself that he grew up and peeled back the layers of facetious and pretentious walls to become human again, like life before "The Artist". It was incredibly noted he did not want the divorce from Manuela, but by her request he went along with it. life after Manuela, based on fact, left a matured man by himself and his music. Now from about 2004 until 2009, he entered an intense period of growth, that's displayed during that time as well. I would say that the last 7 years, based on the facts and known-information, he became slightly less obscure and more approachable. I think he grew up a lot and showed great wisdom, less pride, more humility, and back to the man that everyone met in the 80's during the high of his life. He began to mentor younger artists, he also began to serve as a great friend to many, a confidant, lover, and friend to many. He exhibited a purity at that time of his life especially over the last three years. Prince became a man of God, meaning, he was fulfilling his purpose without much pretense. Prince has always been private, but he started opening up more over the last year or so by interacting with fans, joking around with us, ministering to us in certain ways, and still knowing that he was a legend without the mystique that followed him/separated him as before. I believe that's why he took Denise's death so hard. As much of us stated, maybe she wasn't the "love of his life", but she certainly was the life of his prime, the woman who never quite left his mind throughout it all (as we saw in interviews, artistry, and songs), and the one he wished to see what life would be like with in someway. A man like Prince who never spoke of his ex-wives publicly did not necessarily love them less or more, they just became a thing of the past. A soulmate doesn't not talk to you for years knowing you're miserable and bitter, a lot of that was perception and an illusion because she was incredibly young. There's no doubt he made such an impression, him feeding his love for traditional submission and beauty as an intense spiritual Union seems to have caught up with him. But it was Denise who played the biggest role in his story as a female in retrospect. Those songs and albums wouldn't be what they were without her at the time, so him yelping and moaning that it was "time for a new story," with longing and a cracking voice after he intensely calls her name during a song means that their tale of young love is now over, it couldn't be but he made sense of it all because he never let her go, just moved on. There's no doubt her passing depressed him, we're not saying that was the main cause of his death, but evidently it could have contributed to a slightly untimely and unthinkable passing only weeks later. I'm sure Prince learned how to cope over the triumphant journey of his, but a piece of his past was finally finalized. That's hard for anyone, he was quite human after all, and who he was at the end of his life, was a man with an open heart with yearning for privacy and love at the same time.
[Edited 6/1/16 3:34am]
[Edited 6/1/16 3:57am]
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Reply #2115 posted 06/01/16 3:46am

wizardtelly

I'd like to apologize if I've offended anyone, particularly you Benny. I understand that my response was long, but I hope you now see where most of us are coming from without inflating Mayte into this more than necessary.

Prince has also made it clear he didn't have regrets because, "It's all a piece of the puzzle and who you are presently," that was his stance. He made it a point to just get better and better, and that he did. So if it meant not looking back on his marriage to Mayte or speaking to her, so be it. I do also believe he felt very accountable for "Vanity", well Denise, in many ways, spiritually, romantically, and personally. But in life, in true Prince fashion, he did a 360 at the end and opened up to us. Until someone does an intensive documentary on his life explaining her significance, many naysayers will go against us. Although fact is expensive, it's not a luxury. It tells us a lot about who he was and the man he became, and despite them never being "together" again, we do propose the idea that now they are in some fashion. The prayers Denise always believed he prayed for her, kept her, along with her faith from her church and friends. I believe she got her wish, he prayed for her, and she him.

[Edited 6/1/16 3:58am]

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Reply #2116 posted 06/01/16 4:06am

Vashtix

benni said:

Vashtix said:

Benni,

Why do you find it offensive to allow me to believe for myself that the there was a connection btwn Denise and Prince? I can allow and respect what you are saying about the other women without bashing how you feel. Why do you feel the need to bash?

.

And that post was in reply to purplegirl, not you.

I realize that post was not in reply to me. You are however bashing my opinion. As I said before we can agree to disagree because I believe Prince and Denise has a bond that time and marriages and different loves did not diminish. The connection Prince shared with Denise is not dismissing any other woman in his life it is speaking to his relationship with Denise. I never thought about Prince and Denise much but when she died and him publicly sharing information and dedicating songs and calling for her in death it hit me that time does not matter when hearts/souls/spirits are a true match.

That does not take away from any other women in his life.

I do not understand the need to try to diminish the public show of mourning he shared at Denise's passing. Denise died, he was sad, he shared that with the public.

Prince did die THAT close behind Denise.

I am not God I did not put that into the universe- as the first post said in this thread

Did he die of a broken heart?

I do think her death added to whatever he was going through at the time. Denise was part of his world before he was international mega star - that is special . . . so I do think there is a spiritual component to these 2 deaths.

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Reply #2117 posted 06/01/16 4:17am

Vashtix

benni said:

Vashtix said:

Benni,

Why do you find it offensive to allow me to believe for myself that the there was a connection btwn Denise and Prince? I can allow and respect what you are saying about the other women without bashing how you feel. Why do you feel the need to bash?

.

Excuse me, but how am I bashing you? I haven't said anything negative about you. In fact, I said you are free to believe what you wish to believe. I've merely been comparing the idea of Vanity as his soul mate vs. Mayte as his soul mate. I'm not sure where you get that I'm bashing you?? And I'm not offended by what you believe, by what any of you believe and don't know why you think I'm offended. Again, I'm merely comparing Vanity vs. Mayte (who he said was) as soul mates.

Bashing my opinion is bashing me

My opinion is Prince and Denise had a spiritual connection

Since you want the discussion of Vanity vs. Mayte make up a thread with that title and people can discuss it and share ideas and opinions there. This thread is about how depressed was he about Vanity not a Vanity/Denise vs anything or anyone but if that is the discusion you want

A thread for that would be an option

I am still mourning Prince, it is still so raw for me and I did not know the man - I am not feeling anyone vs anything - anything negative - I accept he loved more than one in this life - many of us love more than one person in our lives on different levels. It does not belittle any of the loves - they just have different flavors - for whatever the time.

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Reply #2118 posted 06/01/16 4:25am

wizardtelly

Vashtix said:

benni said:

.

Excuse me, but how am I bashing you? I haven't said anything negative about you. In fact, I said you are free to believe what you wish to believe. I've merely been comparing the idea of Vanity as his soul mate vs. Mayte as his soul mate. I'm not sure where you get that I'm bashing you?? And I'm not offended by what you believe, by what any of you believe and don't know why you think I'm offended. Again, I'm merely comparing Vanity vs. Mayte (who he said was) as soul mates.

Bashing my opinion is bashing me

My opinion is Prince and Denise had a spiritual connection

Since you want the discussion of Vanity vs. Mayte make up a thread with that title and people can discuss it and share ideas and opinions there. This thread is about how depressed was he about Vanity not a Vanity/Denise vs anything or anyone but if that is the discusion you want

A thread for that would be an option

I am still mourning Prince, it is still so raw for me and I did not know the man - I am not feeling anyone vs anything - anything negative - I accept he loved more than one in this life - many of us love more than one person in our lives on different levels. It does not belittle any of the loves - they just have different flavors - for whatever the time.

My sentiments exactly

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Reply #2119 posted 06/01/16 4:27am

FUNKYNESS

This thread has become a farce. Why doesn't someone end it all?

Save America - Stop Illegal Immigration. God bless America. PEACE
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Reply #2120 posted 06/01/16 4:32am

wizardtelly

I've got a question, why do you people come in here to write those sort of comments though? It's really not troubling you what we're analyzing, and instead, we're either getting attacked about Mayte (Dear Lord) or something else.

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Reply #2121 posted 06/01/16 5:04am

30yearfan

I don't think any of the songs on Emancipation were about Vanity. I think the songs on the album were inspired by Mayte. First and foremost because that's what Prince said at the time and you can tell when you listen to them that they were. I can understand why fans of Mayte would be offended at the suggestion that any songs on Emancipation were about anyone other than her. When I listen to his music I listen for the story that he is telling. I don't think the video for Empty room or A million Days has anything to do with Vanity either. The songs that he sings about Vanity have many references to her that make it plain that it is about her. On the Planet Earth album there are multiple references to her that make it obvious. Like Future Baby Mama when he talks about all his lovers like a like, could it be that I was looking for u. Well everyone knows that most people think all his woman look like Vanity. He is referencing that with those lyrics. In the Lion of Judah, he makes references to Adore (which during the Melbourne show he confirmed was about Vanity and the lyrics to Adore describe what is known about the first night they met where he called her at 3 am.) I think Vanity was really dismissed by some fans because they were not aware of what songs if any were about her. She never went to the press claiming any songs were for her and Prince did not make it public until very recently. He started becoming public about the song The Beautiful ones when he told Dr. Funkenberry that it was not about Susannah two years ago. Then he stated in the Dec. 2015 Ebony interview that it was about the scene in the movie and Vanity. Lastly in the Melbourne show he dedicated it to her and put her real name in the end of the song. Then during many of the shows he revealed to fans other songs that were inspired by Vanity. This is a new topic because Prince shared information that he had not shared before about Vanity. I try to be thoughtful with the things that I post because losing Prince is an emotional thing for all of us. I have picked up some things in his songs as have other people, and a forum like this is a great place to share thoughts and ideas with other like minded people.

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Reply #2122 posted 06/01/16 5:15am

Vashtix

articles

30yearfan said:

I don't think any of the songs on Emancipation were about Vanity. I think the songs on the album were inspired by Mayte. First and foremost because that's what Prince said at the time and you can tell when you listen to them that they were. I can understand why fans of Mayte would be offended at the suggestion that any songs on Emancipation were about anyone other than her. When I listen to his music I listen for the story that he is telling. I don't think the video for Empty room or A million Days has anything to do with Vanity either. The songs that he sings about Vanity have many references to her that make it plain that it is about her. On the Planet Earth album there are multiple references to her that make it obvious. Like Future Baby Mama when he talks about all his lovers like a like, could it be that I was looking for u. Well everyone knows that most people think all his woman look like Vanity. He is referencing that with those lyrics. In the Lion of Judah, he makes references to Adore (which during the Melbourne show he confirmed was about Vanity and the lyrics to Adore describe what is known about the first night they met where he called her at 3 am.) I think Vanity was really dismissed by some fans because they were not aware of what songs if any were about her. She never went to the press claiming any songs were for her and Prince did not make it public until very recently. He started becoming public about the song The Beautiful ones when he told Dr. Funkenberry that it was not about Susannah two years ago. Then he stated in the Dec. 2015 Ebony interview that it was about the scene in the movie and Vanity. Lastly in the Melbourne show he dedicated it to her and put her real name in the end of the song. Then during many of the shows he revealed to fans other songs that were inspired by Vanity. This is a new topic because Prince shared information that he had not shared before about Vanity. I try to be thoughtful with the things that I post because losing Prince is an emotional thing for all of us. I have picked up some things in his songs as have other people, and a forum like this is a great place to share thoughts and ideas with other like minded people.

I totally agree. It is hard for a mortal mind to even think that a love that happened over 30 yrs ago could still have a grip on you - it seems fantastical like a fiction - and neither Denise /Vanity or Prince spoke publicly and to me that speaks volumes. When she died I started reading articles from friends and family members and they stated she said he was the love of her life eek I was taken aback like WOW

So now in mourning I came to this board to discuss Prince with like minded people not to argue or debate him and his loves but "To share thoughts and ideas"

It has helped me get through alot of my missing Prince days

[Edited 6/1/16 5:18am]

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Reply #2123 posted 06/01/16 5:21am

wizardtelly

Vashtix said:

articles

30yearfan said:

I don't think any of the songs on Emancipation were about Vanity. I think the songs on the album were inspired by Mayte. First and foremost because that's what Prince said at the time and you can tell when you listen to them that they were. I can understand why fans of Mayte would be offended at the suggestion that any songs on Emancipation were about anyone other than her. When I listen to his music I listen for the story that he is telling. I don't think the video for Empty room or A million Days has anything to do with Vanity either. The songs that he sings about Vanity have many references to her that make it plain that it is about her. On the Planet Earth album there are multiple references to her that make it obvious. Like Future Baby Mama when he talks about all his lovers like a like, could it be that I was looking for u. Well everyone knows that most people think all his woman look like Vanity. He is referencing that with those lyrics. In the Lion of Judah, he makes references to Adore (which during the Melbourne show he confirmed was about Vanity and the lyrics to Adore describe what is known about the first night they met where he called her at 3 am.) I think Vanity was really dismissed by some fans because they were not aware of what songs if any were about her. She never went to the press claiming any songs were for her and Prince did not make it public until very recently. He started becoming public about the song The Beautiful ones when he told Dr. Funkenberry that it was not about Susannah two years ago. Then he stated in the Dec. 2015 Ebony interview that it was about the scene in the movie and Vanity. Lastly in the Melbourne show he dedicated it to her and put her real name in the end of the song. Then during many of the shows he revealed to fans other songs that were inspired by Vanity. This is a new topic because Prince shared information that he had not shared before about Vanity. I try to be thoughtful with the things that I post because losing Prince is an emotional thing for all of us. I have picked up some things in his songs as have other people, and a forum like this is a great place to share thoughts and ideas with other like minded people.

I totally agree. It is hard for a mortal mind to even think that a love that happened over 30 yrs ago could still have a grip on you - it seems fantastical like a fiction - and neither Denise /Vanity or Prince spoke publicly and to me that speaks volumes. When she died I started reading articles from friends and family members and they stated she said he was the love of her life eek I was taken aback like WOW

So now in mourning I came to this board to discuss Prince with like minded people not to argue or debate him and his loves but "To share thoughts and ideas"

It has helped me get through alot of my missing Prince days

[Edited 6/1/16 5:18am]

I completely agree

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Reply #2124 posted 06/01/16 5:37am

endiadj

this thread use to be fun. now it's been invaded and just arguing ensued. wish we could go back to prince/vanity discussions as it was intended.
[Edited 6/1/16 5:38am]
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Reply #2125 posted 06/01/16 5:43am

benni

wizardtelly said:

benni said:

.

Excuse me, but how am I bashing you? I haven't said anything negative about you. In fact, I said you are free to believe what you wish to believe. I've merely been comparing the idea of Vanity as his soul mate vs. Mayte as his soul mate. I'm not sure where you get that I'm bashing you?? And I'm not offended by what you believe, by what any of you believe and don't know why you think I'm offended. Again, I'm merely comparing Vanity vs. Mayte (who he said was) as soul mates.

Please stop bringing up Mayte in this page for reasons of progression. The world does not revolve around her, nor does the research many people are doing to figure out his relationship with Denise.

.

The problem is, you cannot figure out his relationship with Denise, because the only two who can really give you the truth is not here to confirm or deny it. Everything related to their relationship is conjecture/opinion. And it's obvious that you know it, because you all cannot handle any dissenting views and feel that a dissenting view is somehow bashing someone else, when it is not.

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Reply #2126 posted 06/01/16 5:46am

wizardtelly

benni said:

wizardtelly said:

benni said: Please stop bringing up Mayte in this page for reasons of progression. The world does not revolve around her, nor does the research many people are doing to figure out his relationship with Denise.

.

The problem is, you cannot figure out his relationship with Denise, because the only two who can really give you the truth is not here to confirm or deny it. Everything related to their relationship is conjecture/opinion. And it's obvious that you know it, because you all cannot handle any dissenting views and feel that a dissenting view is somehow bashing someone else, when it is not.

No, I think the problem is you bringing Mayte into a discussion where she's not needed. That's like countering an argument with the same spiel on you not being able to handle that in their story, she's not quite as significant and you are thus also trying to counter what research/insight people have as prose as a way to belittle opinion.

I personally have never said all of his songs were about Denise or the subject of Vanity, that's a ludicrous assumption. Some have, with their reasons, and they could have been.


Thank you for your time, but this isn't what the thread is about.

[Edited 6/1/16 5:58am]

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Reply #2127 posted 06/01/16 5:47am

benni

wizardtelly said:

benni said:

.

I'm not taking anything from you, Vashtix, nor am I trying to take anything from you. Again, you are free to believe whatever you wish to believe. As for opinions, when I stated that all of this was "conjecture" (opinion) I was called out on that and told this was not conjecture, but was "Prince's own words". If it makes you feel better to think that Prince died because of Denise dying, and if you truly believe that, then nothing I say can ever take that away from you.

.

The only reason I had posted (because I had not been interested in posting on this thread) was when I saw people trying to link The Holy River to Denise, when the song was about Mayte. I felt that was trying to minimize Mayte's importance in his life, and obviously for him to have written The Holy River about her, she was an important piece of his life. And those saying that "he got rid of her two years after they married, doesn't say much about being a soul mate," keep in mind that they had lost a child and after a loss like that, divorce happens too frequently because the couples don't know how to grieve together or deal with that loss together. It has nothing to do with whether she was or was not a soul mate. So while you may not be minimizing other relationships he had, it seems that others on this thread definitely are.

This thread is not one that bashes Mayte, nor does it give her unnecessary attention for opinion purposes/biases as your own. Please check the title and the dynamic of the thread. This is not a fan-fiction thread nor is it based on preferential bias, but symbolism and deconstructing the artistry and personal life of Prince.

.

No, it was a thread about how depressed Prince was about Vanity's passing. You all turned it into some strange fiction that all of his music is now about Vanity. The symbolism in Prince's music and artistry went much deeper than being about a woman. Even Prince himself said fans often get it wrong, trying to make his music about this or that, when he was actually singing about God.

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Reply #2128 posted 06/01/16 5:49am

wizardtelly

benni said:

wizardtelly said:

benni said: This thread is not one that bashes Mayte, nor does it give her unnecessary attention for opinion purposes/biases as your own. Please check the title and the dynamic of the thread. This is not a fan-fiction thread nor is it based on preferential bias, but symbolism and deconstructing the artistry and personal life of Prince.

.

No, it was a thread about how depressed Prince was about Vanity's passing. You all turned it into some strange fiction that all of his music is now about Vanity. The symbolism in Prince's music and artistry went much deeper than being about a woman. Even Prince himself said fans often get it wrong, trying to make his music about this or that, when he was actually singing about God.

Considering I can safely assume you've not sat down and read numerous pages on this, I think this discussion can end here. We've all acknowledged that God and his spiritual tie to his deity and worshipping practice was the leading force in his life. I won't suggest you read back, I would just suggest you not argue or waste time to be quite frank because it's unnecessary fodder in a place where it's not needed. This has nothing to do with suggesting conjectures, it has to do with people's resilience to let others discuss what is rightfully intriguing to them about the passing of two people connected by many forces.

Also, if you would like to read fiction as your soul permits a desire to discuss Mayte: I'd suggest you go on her instagram page and read any comment you can find. That is fiction at it's best, as well as delusion. (Respectably)
Thank you for your time. X

[Edited 6/1/16 5:51am]

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Reply #2129 posted 06/01/16 5:56am

endiadj

truth is no one knows really who these songs are about except prince, so we'll never really know now. one moment he says a song is about this woman. the next time he says she knows about this one concerning a different woman. so no one is right or wrong or dealing with true facts. we're just going by what prince himself said in a vulnerable moment. we're dissecting his songs/videos in this vanity/denise/prince thread. no one said anything is fact, just opinions as is every other thread about his other relationships.
[Edited 6/1/16 6:23am]
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