Graycap23 said:

That made my day.

The thing is, W&L seem to understand metaphor.... Prince appears to have a basic grasp of literary technique... therein we have an idea of immaturity on Prince's part...

NOT FAIR - Prince does understand stuff... just not thoughtful stuff..

BoySimon said:

i would disagree very strongly that prince's material is NOT thoughtful.

BoySimon said:

You're kidding, right? I have three words for you: "Joy in Repetition".

BoySimon said:

Fan level:obsessed?

Graycap23 said:

yep. Been around the industry a bit. And you last post made more sense to me. Not your cup of tea and such.

To L4OATheOriginal As far as musicians being dropped from their labels...many truly genius musicians have been dropped and had crappy sales.I'm not sayig that is W&L- just that is a completely silly point to have made.
As far as thinking Prince never did anything good without W&L- I never said that. I said some people act as though they had no involvement in any of the good music Prince put out. I will also say that many of the musicians in Princes bands had influence. Some good, some bad. But Prince has always been a great musician- you will find I always support that. I've also noted that W&L definitley played a role when they were there. So what's the big deal? That Prince isn't an island? That somehow he is less of an artist if he collaborates? That's what I find odd - that from Andre, W&L, Levi, Sheila, Kirk, Ricky P., Eric Leeds, Dez, Fink,Tom Tucker plus others - that none of these people are ALLOWED to have credit for contributions that are fairly evident on recordings. Maybe people have knee "jerk" reactions to W&L cause they are still making records and are still relevant in the entertainment industry.It just sort of mystifies me that a persons opinion of two tracks gets this kind of overkill reaction. Including mine apparently

without a doubt prince has had his band members contribute or open him up 2 new geners of music. if eric never introduced prince 2 miles then madhouse would have never been born.

what gets me the most tho, is that u will have fans proclaim that wendy and lisa were the HOLY GRAIL of prince's music which is proposterious. all the "oh prince should get the revolution back and etc" is like saying he never did music b4 or after them which was of great calibur. the title of this thread is even a slap in the face 2 some of classic songs that came after the revolution and how his music has always had this witty appeal 2 them that made u think. i'm not saying there is real witty ness on say planet earth (didn't wendy and lisa appear on a few of these tracks? and u can tell the division amongst his fans with this album), but i'll b damn if there isn't some righteous and mature lyrics in dear mr man, reflection, sexy mf, friend lover sister mother wife, the love we make, etc etc

I eventually realized Wendy & Lisa were a major reason why I liked Prince's music. Twenty years after the fact, I think they were the main reason.

doyle said:

The question then becomes...why?

simm0061 said:

Graycap23 said:

I know. We need a separate thread for that Pandora's box!
I've always been a big W&L fan but I'll be the first to admit that there are reasons (having nothing to do with their talent) that have contributed to their (and subsequently Prince's) mass appeal. Prince Knew exactly what he was doing there! I don't say that to take anything away from W&L (they are very talented) but those unspoken "reasons" really can't be denied.

L4OATheOriginal said:

my only quibble here is that the original posting implicated Princes latest vs. W&Ls current. Not is catalogue versus theirs. Otherwise I agree that W&L probably have little to bring to Prince at this point, and Prince has little to bring to them - on an artistic level - at this point in time. I'm not for a return of any particular band, but whatever inspiration that brought forth so much of the section of his catalogue I prefer.

Erika2k8 said:

I guess we all know who is gonna get detention and have to stay after school, maybe he will make them run laps. His music is not the same without him, not better or worse. He even said that they had a lot to do with whatr ws put on albums, they made things go faster

SoulAlive said:

:missile:Is this Princefans.com or the Jerry Springer show Can't we all just get along. Some people in here need a nap or a time out.

Joy in Repetition was written in '86 released in '90. 22 or 18 years ago. Prince does metaphor, don't get me wrong, but his are now mostly laboured. It is, obviously, just me. The tracks W&L are releasing at the moment scream thoughtfulness and maturity and growth and sense... much of Musicology thru Planet earth doesn't.... and it pisses me off.

BoySimon said:

So, you didn't like Prince's last 3 albums AND you take it personally?

Yep, I'd say the issue definitely lies with you.

BoySimon said:

Yeah, well. I get it. (Frankly, the new albums can get in line well behind things like Prince suing his fans in the ticking me off department. For the most part, I stopped buying the new albums years ago.)

But what I fail to see is how W&L, by having been in Prince's band some 22 years ago, highlight Prince's work any more than any other artist out there. Prince is Prince. W&L are W&L. They have been on separate trajectories for a long time now.

And -- artists go through high and low points. As an example -- Joni Mitchell went through (IMO) a completely terrible period in most of the 80s and early 90s. Her music was pretty dreadful pop gibberish that was a long cry from her output in the 60s and 70s. And then she finally worked her way up to a new level of maturity with her recent jazz work.

Do I signpost that against everyone she's ever worked with? Against her 70s colleagues? Um, no. It is what it is.

Prince may or may not come back to a style that I prefer. But that has little to do with his capacity or maturity, and even less to do with W&L. It's not linear; it's just his path as an artist. And of all the things I might get ticked off about, this is the one area I don't see worth quibbling over.

Artist evolve and change and we as listeners/fans are not always going to be in line with their journey. But it is THEIR journey - we are merely guests/observers. I think Prince said it best in the 1985 RollingStone interview:
"I saw critics be so critical of Stevie Wonder when he made Journey through the Secret World of Plants. Stevie has done so many great songs, and for people to say, "You missed, don't do that, go back" -- well, I would never say, "Stevie Wonder, you missed." [Prince puts the Wonder album on the turntable, plays a cut, then puts on Miles Davis' new album.] Or Miles. Critics are going to say, "Ah, Miles done went off." Why say that? Why even tell Miles he went off? You know, if you don't like it, don't talk about it. Go buy another record!"

Of course it is a personal response, I don't speak for other people. You are implying an overblown sense of importance on my part, which is not the case. I am merely using the internet to express and opinion. It's what the internet, amongst other things, is known for.

The way in W&L impact on Prince - in my opinion - stems from the fact that whilst with them he produced some of his most imaginative and provocative work. Even in the immediate period after they left their influence can still be heard; they appear on a lot of Sign O The Times, for instance and the composition of Lovesexy bears the signature of their influence on Prince, though I do believe that Eric Leeds and Matt Fink also had a lot to do with that album too... Again, opinion.

From Batman to Planet Earth Prince's sound has changed. In the late 80s/early 90s the change had a lot to do with chasing rap as a culture and, firstly, trying to negate it, then trying to incorporate it. This failed. After that, with the core trio of Prince, Micheal Bland and Sonny Thompson, Prince found a groove again, and as great as it was, it did not capture the vibe of 85-87 Prince when, arguably, he was at his most creative. Since then it's all been downhill. Steeply. Except for The Rainbow Children which came out of nowhere and has not been replicated - musically, ignoring the anti-semite and sexit natur of the lyrics.

By contrast, the albums (few and far between, admittedly) W&L have released haev shown growth of character, respect of sound and a level of creativity and innovation Prince's current work sadly lacks - again, to these ears on this here head - and having heard a couple of examples from their forthcoming album , it merely makes me lament the fact that they are not recording together again. As a three, they worked as a well oiled, homogenous music machine. And they were great. Really great. On their own, W&L sound better and better and more assured. Prince sounds... not so.

simm0061 said:

Because they are very talented, not to mention easy on the eyes, and just plain fun to listen to.

They are, or were, the icing on the cake that is Prince.

p.s. sorry for the late reply, the board makes new members wait 5 or 6 days to post after registering.
[Edited 9/6/08 22:30pm]