Genesia said:

FauxReal said:

Yeah I think the whole thing is ridiculous, honestly.

"This is not who I am..."

Great. Nobody was trying to be YOU for Halloween.

Oh, come on! Identity politics are fuuuunnnnnn!

For whatever reason, this all reminds me of the Sadie Hawkins Dance during my senior year, which was advertised as "a cotton-pickin' good time!"

Yeah...I had to opt out of that one. Because that's not who I am or something.

FauxReal said:

Genesia said:

Oh, come on! Identity politics are fuuuunnnnnn!

For whatever reason, this all reminds me of the Sadie Hawkins Dance during my senior year, which was advertised as "a cotton-pickin' good time!"

Yeah...I had to opt out of that one. Because that's not who I am or something.

When I was in high school, we had Farmer Day whenever we played a certain rival high school in football. When our school was built, it was out in the middle of a cornfield, so they called us farmers.

Those overalls, bandanas and seed caps were very insensitive.

JustErin said:

FauxReal said:

Yeah I think the whole thing is ridiculous, honestly.

"This is not who I am..."

Great. Nobody was trying to be YOU for Halloween.

Yeah. Those ads are ridiculous.

Yup. Glad you co-signed. I've always wanted to dress up as a mountie one year. One Canadian's blessing is good enough for me.

FauxReal said:

JustErin said:

FauxReal said: Yeah. Those ads are ridiculous.

Yup. Glad you co-signed. I've always wanted to dress up as a mountie one year. One Canadian's blessing is good enough for me.

Totally how I thought of it. Anyone one can say that whole "It's not me" and no one would be able to dress up as anyone/anything.

Oh no....

A friend of mine just posted this pic on facebook. What a coincidence.

JustErin said:

FauxReal said:

Yup. Glad you co-signed. I've always wanted to dress up as a mountie one year. One Canadian's blessing is good enough for me.

Totally how I thought of it. Anyone one can say that whole "It's not me" and no one would be able to dress up as anyone/anything.

...except actual monsters, but someone would object to that too. Yeah sometimes I think it's all going too far.

What about being a cowboy? Would that offend Texans who don't wear cowboy hats?

And some day, I would like to think a kid could dress as Bob Marley or Obama and nobody would be upset. Not today, and I get that, but maybe some day because I don't think it inherently HAS to be offensive, it just is because of other associations.

PC gone overboard

NDRU said:

JustErin said:

Totally how I thought of it. Anyone one can say that whole "It's not me" and no one would be able to dress up as anyone/anything.

...except actual monsters, but someone would object to that too. Yeah sometimes I think it's all going too far.

What about being a cowboy? Would that offend Texans who don't wear cowboy hats?

And some day, I would like to think a kid could dress as Bob Marley or Obama and nobody would be upset. Not today, and I get that, but maybe some day because I don't think it inherently HAS to be offensive, it just is because of other associations.

Well, whatever you do, don't dress as an Orc because (I kid you not) back when Lord of the Rings came out, somebody actually wrote a newspaper column on the fact that the Orcs were black people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk...oftherings

Genesia said:

NDRU said:

...except actual monsters, but someone would object to that too. Yeah sometimes I think it's all going too far.

What about being a cowboy? Would that offend Texans who don't wear cowboy hats?

And some day, I would like to think a kid could dress as Bob Marley or Obama and nobody would be upset. Not today, and I get that, but maybe some day because I don't think it inherently HAS to be offensive, it just is because of other associations.

Well, whatever you do, don't dress as an Orc because (I kid you not) back when Lord of the Rings came out, somebody actually wrote a newspaper column on the fact that the Orcs were black people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk...oftherings

yeah...I think I remember that.

I think it's more disturbing to see Orcs and associate them with any kind of actual living people.

Genesia said:

Well, whatever you do, don't dress as an Orc because (I kid you not) back when Lord of the Rings came out, somebody actually wrote a newspaper column on the fact that the Orcs were black people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk...oftherings

What's next? Snow white for bossing around the 7 dwarfs?

I saw the photo and "Davetherave is racist" wasn't the first thing to pop into my head.

I thought the pic was a bit weird.

If he was racist, he CERTAINTLY would not have a million tattoos of a black man all over his body.

However, I get how the pic may have offended some folks.

I like him and I hope his ban is lifted soon.

Oh dear.

breese said:

BlackAdder7 said:

Recently, students from the University of Ohio launched a campaign against costumes that stereotype cultures

Sorry, but this ad is actually funnier than the costume. His face.

JustErin said:

Oh no....

A friend of mine just posted this pic on facebook. What a coincidence.

The one on the right looks like she might be tucking eggroll.

Just as important as the banning itself, for the sake of this org-community might be who did the banning?

I see snips by luv4u, is this the mod doing the banning?

Another thing that is offensive...

Folk telling me I can't see something to decide for myself what I think of it.

If something is offensive to you you have the choice to look away, click off, not come back to this thread, this site or even throw your fucking computer off a 10 story window.

That's like 5 more choices than were given to a bunch of folk when they clicked on this thread.

[Edited 10/31/11 21:34pm]

funkmunki said:

so there go's Dave!!!.

He who lives in the most racially tolerant country in the world is banned for showing an image of himself dressed as a Zulu.

Big Fucking Deal!!!!...there was no malice intended, shame on those who saw fit to slur someones innocent fancy dress picture ffs

You are right - Funnily enough I thought Davetherave was of Asian ethinicity, he looks it in his Photo's on the Hats thread ?

and there was me thinking only "white honky ass crackers where racist" (Sarcasm intended)

Hello

Lift his ban already !!

deebee said:

For the record, we had blackface as a form of mockery in the UK, too (google 'The Black & White Minstrel Show', which ran on the BBC for 20 years in spite of many complaints - there are even some video clips out there), so Brits can only plead ignorance on this topic to the same extent Americans can. I don't know the full circumstances of the ban in this case, and so I can't say whether I necessarily agree or disagree with it; just wanted to set the record straight on that one point.

Actually, no Brit's couldn't because a) This show was during the 50 / 60 / 70's b) I bet the Majority of the UK members have no idea about this show show or that it existed

I remember it, I also remember lots of other shows that had Humour targeted at Black people, Love Thy Neighbour was one, It ain't half hot mum (although aimed at Asian not Black people), Jim Davidson with his "Chalky" Jokes. Yes, once upon a Time our TV would have horrified the average Black person.

We have become more tolerant and have laws in place here in the UK, we cannot legally use "Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman" Jokes anymore (****or any other Nationalist type joke***), The "N" Word will land your ass in jail and the Golly, the Symbol of Robinsons Jams for Decades is now outlawed.

*****Ironically in a typically British sense of hypocrisy, making jokes about Nazi's, Germans and Sunbeds etc etc is still allowed...........How very British of us.

itsnotallover said:

deebee said:

For the record, we had blackface as a form of mockery in the UK, too (google 'The Black & White Minstrel Show', which ran on the BBC for 20 years in spite of many complaints - there are even some video clips out there), so Brits can only plead ignorance on this topic to the same extent Americans can. I don't know the full circumstances of the ban in this case, and so I can't say whether I necessarily agree or disagree with it; just wanted to set the record straight on that one point.

Actually, no Brit's couldn't because a) This show was during the 50 / 60 / 70's b) I bet the Majority of the UK members have no idea about this show show or that it existed

I think Al Jolson's been out of work for a few years across the Pond, too, yet somehow, some American orgers manage to educate themselves about the history of blackface minstrelsy and of the social context it took place in. Some don't, and continue to remain ignorant or to see it as a 'harmless bit of fun'. Same in the UK - some will have taken the time and made the effort to school themselves; some will remain ignorant. The key point is that, like Americans, the opportunity to learn more is there, should they choose to take it up. And thus they can, as I say, only plead ignorance on this topic to the same extent Americans can.

I remember it, I also remember lots of other shows that had Humour targeted at Black people, Love Thy Neighbour was one, It ain't half hot mum (although aimed at Asian not Black people), Jim Davidson with his "Chalky" Jokes. Yes, once upon a Time our TV would have horrified the average Black person.

We have become more tolerant and have laws in place here in the UK, we cannot legally use "Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman" Jokes anymore (****or any other Nationalist type joke***), The "N" Word will land your ass in jail and the Golly, the Symbol of Robinsons Jams for Decades is now outlawed.

*****Ironically in a typically British sense of hypocrisy, making jokes about Nazi's, Germans and Sunbeds etc etc is still allowed...........How very British of us.

I'd agree that there's a complex, contested history in the UK around this whole subject, and that there are many ways in which things are better now than they once were. We have the efforts of people in earlier eras who did decide to school themselves about the past (refusing the complacency and dismissiveness of those in their own time who told them to stop being party poopers) and raised objections when ignorant shit came up. Maybe we should follow their example, school ourselves, and keep going on that upward arc, eh?

P.S. I'm generally not in favour of banning. A snip, an explanation, and if necessary a warning usually does the job and avoids the bitterness and acrimony that results from heavy-handed moderating.

[Edited 11/1/11 6:48am]

I, too, am from the UK and black face carries the same offensive conotations here as it is in the US; despite or because of the fact that the black & white ministral show was on air for 20 years. I can let it wash off my black because I try not to entertain other people ignorance or their bullshit.

I didn't see the pic b4 it was snipped so can't comment on it, but if the fact that some African-Americans were offended by and some weren't is not the issue, different live experiences beget different levels of tolerance to perceived offense.

Edited as it was posted that this pic was not why Dave was banned previously.

[Edited 11/1/11 7:02am]

deebee said:

itsnotallover said:

I think Al Jolson's been out of work for a few years across the Pond, too, yet somehow, some American orgers manage to educate themselves about the history of blackface minstrelsy and of the social context it took place in. Some don't, and continue to remain ignorant or to see it as a 'harmless bit of fun'. Same in the UK - some will have taken the time and made the effort to school themselves; some will remain ignorant. The key point is that, like Americans, the opportunity to learn more is there, should they choose to take it up. And thus they can, as I say, only plead ignorance on this topic to the same extent Americans can.

I remember it, I also remember lots of other shows that had Humour targeted at Black people, Love Thy Neighbour was one, It ain't half hot mum (although aimed at Asian not Black people), Jim Davidson with his "Chalky" Jokes. Yes, once upon a Time our TV would have horrified the average Black person.

We have become more tolerant and have laws in place here in the UK, we cannot legally use "Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman" Jokes anymore (****or any other Nationalist type joke***), The "N" Word will land your ass in jail and the Golly, the Symbol of Robinsons Jams for Decades is now outlawed.

*****Ironically in a typically British sense of hypocrisy, making jokes about Nazi's, Germans and Sunbeds etc etc is still allowed...........How very British of us.

I'd agree that there's a complex, contested history in the UK around this whole subject, and that there are many ways in which things are better now than they once were. We have the efforts of people in earlier eras who did decide to school themselves about the past (refusing the complacency and dismissiveness of those in their own time who told them to stop being party poopers) and raised objections when ignorant shit came up. Maybe we should follow their example, school ourselves, and keep going on that upward arc, eh?

P.S. I'm generally not in favour of banning. A snip, an explanation, and if necessary a warning usually does the job and avoids the bitterness and acrimony that results from heavy-handed moderating.

[Edited 11/1/11 6:48am]

I think to be honest we could go round in circles with this subject - I chose to educate myself on many things and I now teach my Kids these things, in the hope that they become part of a future where People will get along better - A Pipedream I know, Humans are naturally intolerable I feel.

I recently discovered the meaning of a common term -- "Nitty Gritty" ............

Look it up and then stand back in horror as you realise how many times you said it in your lifetime and what it means ........ Ignorance isnt't always about not wanting to learn something, you have to look in the right place and to be honest, I would be happier being part of a Forum where People are more inclined to teach us these things, rather than go off on one calling us Racist and beating us down with their "White Supremacy" comments.

I never heard the term "Blackface" before, but I knew it existed, just not under that term

After speaking to Dave about this, or being told off by him, I would have to say that I still have mixed feelings about it all.

Should the picture have been taken down? Yes. Did he need a ban? No, the removal would have been enough.

My issue with Dave is that he doesn't give a shit about how the photo effected people. He thinks

that he, and anyone who agrees with him, is right, and everyone else is wrong. He is being an ass.

While I have, in the past, considered him my buddy (he is one of the first "org" friends I made),

I cannot help but be disgusted by what hes had to say on this topic thus far.

For a grown ass man he is sure acting like a child

LadyCasanova said:

After speaking to Dave about this, or being told off by him, I would have to say that I still have mixed feelings about it all.

Should the picture have been taken down? Yes. Did he need a ban? No, the removal would have been enough.

My issue with Dave is that he doesn't give a shit about how the photo effected people. He thinks

that he, and anyone who agrees with him, is right, and everyone else is wrong. He is being an ass.

While I have, in the past, considered him my buddy (he is one of the first "org" friends I made),

I cannot help but be disgusted by what hes had to say on this topic thus far.

For a grown ass man he is sure acting like a child

that's too bad. I think he is just hurt and on the defensive... its ironic really.

Someone who's hurt telling you he doesn't give a fuck who he hurt... well... then its just another day of the same shit. He is a grown and knowing man, and I think he should know that it was the image that was the problem, not him personally. I hope when he gets over his hurt and remembers you are his friend that any trespass can be mended.

Sensitive folks get VERY defensive when you tell them not to do something. Especially if they don't want to change what they like to do. They will only argue to justify what they do, but not to reach understanding or to ackknowledge others. They will not converse to learn. They don't want to learn. What can someone who they view is beneath them teach them after all? Nothing they want to know.... so they argue to keep doing what they want to do and have a get the fuck over it fest with their friends.

Its the org... nothing new... its been happening before any of us got here, it will remain the same. Can't teach someone who does not want to learn.

Thanks for the update LadyC.

Just to put things from a younger perspective. Blackface isnt a well known issue in the U.S. like many people are implying, its probably a generational thing but people from my generation have almost no knowledge of it at all so dont think that its something "everybody knows about". The way I see it this is kinda silly, since when does a kid a dressing as a Zulu warrior imply negative things about a race? I guess some peoples minds just assume the worst about everything even if it means jumping several bridges to get there. Its a kid dressing up as a warrior, just like a kid that dressed up as an Indian, or as a kid that dresses up as a cowboy. Does that imply that all Indians wear feathers and carry tomahawks? Does it imply that all southerners carry guns and herd cows? No. All those conclusions are just silly.

Hell, I asked some of my black friends if they thought blackface was racist and all they did was straight up laugh. Just my 2 cents, so feel free to ignore. But just because something was used for racism in the past in no way means that anything connected to it today is racist.

[Edited 11/1/11 20:20pm]

I think some people are missing the point on this, it is not because the a kid dresses as a Zulu warrior it is the 'blacking up' that is the issue. It is a just costume, like any other, 'blacking up' or trying to does not make it look more authentic.

oh cool. that dude was kinda creepy.

ManlyMoose said:

Just to put things from a younger perspective. Blackface isnt a well known issue in the U.S. like many people are implying, its probably a generational thing but people from my generation have almost no knowledge of it at all so dont think that its something "everybody knows about". The way I see it this is kinda silly, since when does a kid a dressing as a Zulu warrior imply negative things about a race? I guess some peoples minds just assume the worst about everything even if it means jumping several bridges to get there. Its a kid dressing up as a warrior, just like a kid that dressed up as an Indian, or as a kid that dresses up as a cowboy. Does that imply that all Indians wear feathers and carry tomahawks? Does it imply that all southerners carry guns and herd cows? No. All those conclusions are just silly.

Hell, I asked some of my black friends if they thought blackface was racist and all they did was straight up laugh. Just my 2 cents, so feel free to ignore. But just because something was used for racism in the past in no way means that anything connected to it today is racist.

[Edited 11/1/11 20:20pm]

and the only reason those "culture not a costume" ads won't work is because the dumbass white people who want to dress up like stereotypes don't give a shit about non-white feelings.

me in a fancy dress