tinaz said:

paintedlady said:

there is an orger here, who posted a picture of her legs in her avartar, and she was promptly banned.

Are legs offensive? It depends on the image. Intent didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now.

Wasnt there cooch in that shot?

The orger protested there was no cooch. I didn't see the pic, the orger thought it was removed.

paintedlady said:

mask said:

You just may be the biggest blowhard in this forum!You open your mouth and spew nonesense

at seemingly every turn and it is high time you were called on it.

You have no dog in this fight and yet you constantly rattle your gums,talking as if you are the victim of some underhanded scheme of "white people".Get off of your soapbox,lady.

I have read your comments in plenty of other threads here as well ,accusing "white people" of all kinds of absurd things in which you have no basis in fact.You are a race baiter of the highest order.

Don't act all friendly with Dave here and then throw the guy under the bus the 1st chance you get while he is banned and not able to represent himself.

You behave like a rat.

here is some cheese for you to nibble on...perhaps it will help keep your big mouth shut regarding topics that do not pertain to you.

Actually... its not me being acusitory. This entire post is filled with anger and hurt.

I don't "blame" white people... its not blame its just history and how people have adjusted to that history.

It is what it is.

Now if YOU think I am acusing white folks that's YOUR way of viewing it and if offends you, I am sorry.

See how that works? I acknowledged you and treat you as another human being...

I didn't say "get over it " a "race-baiter" would have just to start a fight and cause division.

This is all I am saying we should take the time to give people room to have an opinion... and its a fucking shame I have to explain anything at all regarding blackface or any thing about how fucking color struck people still are.

OH and BTW.... when I speak of black people I speak of all types of black folks... like in the Latino culture...

much of this ties with the "white hispanic vs. balck hispanic" bullshit.

So NO I don't blame white people for shit either... but its a fucking shame my white friends have the burden to heal me because I have been called a nigger.

And not only by "European whites" but by "white hispanics" also. That shit changes you forever and makes you try your best to understand and grow more compassion but at the same time it gives you less tolerance for people who like to use mockery as a form entertainment. Any type of mockery.

So no I don't "blame" white people... this is bigger than just that. People of the same fucking race are doing dumb shit to each other.

Why I posted in this thread in the first place is because I was encouraged to start a dialog in explaination of blackface. So that people can know WHY some are offended. This is why I speak on the oposing POV. I attacked no one here. This is no "fight"... there is no "race bait" this is merely opinion expressed to acheive some sort of understanding.

How can we move past this bullshit if there is no dialog? If people are not given the opportunity to be told why some are or could be offended? How can they stop doing it?

This issue ecffects us all because people are still hurt... Davetherave was banned, people are pissed over that... and mods are in here explaining shit when they shouldn't have to.

Simple.

Fuck me! Bitches in here are fucking crazy... but go ahead... do what you want.

So why use your own personal grievances to have a go at Dave?

Who made you an authority on blackface?

You are allowed to vent here I was told so be fair and don't act all bootyhurt when someone with an opposing view engages you.

mask said:

So why use your own personal grievances to have a go at Dave?

Who made you an authority on blackface?

You are allowed to vent here I was told so be fair and don't act all bootyhurt when someone with an opposing view engages you.

Huh?

I am not angry or pissed or taking a go at Dave... you are personalizing shit and you shouldn't be.

You are trying to make this about me against an orger and from my FIRST post here I said it is about the image and what that image invokes...

NOT THE ORGER.

Intent is not the issue, but how people will view that image is the issue.

I NEVER called Davetherave racist or anything...

I bitched about the "Archie Bunker " mentality in this thread though... and its not DavetheRave doing it since he can not post.

That's what got me in here... people telling others what they should feel or what they can be offended by. None of us have that right.

Dig?

I bet you don't... I bet you need satisfaction, well chica... go find it eslewhere. I never attacked Davetherave... people here are calling him an idiot that he doesn't know better. I said he was intelligent and knowing... that he is a grown man. Said it more than once too.

So what's wrong with that? You are throwing windmill punches and hitting air. Open your eyes girlfriend.

You are just too ready to fight.

dJJ said:

Paintedlady ventilates her opinion, as she has every right to do. She is not disrespectful nor personally attacking anybody.

The whole discussion has been interesting, especially because people actually were taking eachothers responses into account and responding to the content.

You'r contribution is pretty deviant, you are disrespectful and personally attacking Paintedlady. That doesn't serve your case very well.

I for example can't take anything you say here seriously because of the tone of your response.

TY

They don't even see that you agree and see that Davetheraves pis shouldn't cause offense... they are too mad.

^

You say Dave is not racist but yet you agree with his ban

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and it's two faced

It's like spanking your child for a vase he broke unintentionally while comforting him at the same time ;

Saying intend doesn't matter is bs

And dragging blackface into the discussion and rambling on and on about it is bs because , for the umpteenth time

HE NEVER POSTED A BLACKFACE PICTURE !

You are dragging your own frustrations into it at Dave's expense and that's sad , wrong and unfair

[Edited 11/3/11 8:33am]

Dewrede said:

^

You say Dave is not racist but yet you agree with his ban

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

It's like spanking your child for a vase he broke unintentionally ;

Saying intend doesn't matter is bs

and dragging blackface into the discussion and rambling on and on about it is bs because he didn't post a blackface pic

I never agreed to Dave being banned... I agreed with the removal of the image. It has no place here, since it causes division.

It was a blackface pic... not "minstrel" ...

there is a difference and I referred that pic to sambo mentality... its depiction is accurate.

Having Jimi all up in your avatar like you REALLY give a fuck give a fcuk about black folks... rolling up in here like you're professor Gates in some PBS special after reading one paragraph in Wikipedia playing like some expert.

Probably can't even get a tan...

^

1st -

How sad

What does that have to do with anything ?

Saying dumb shit like that proves that you are the one that's racist

2- Who gave you the authority to speak on behalf of all blacks ?

That's just laughable and proposterous

FYI , there's several blacks who commented on this thread

that said that it's ridiculous that Dave got banned

and who felt it was blown way out of proportion

[Edited 11/3/11 8:46am]

Dewrede said:

^

How sad

What does that have to do with anything ?

Saying dumb shit like that proves that you are the one that's racist

OK OK... that was mean and I should not have gone the pasty skin route... I am sorry...

but seriously... to call me racist is extreme... shit this thread alone can make you one by that standard. You basically are saying that black people don't matter, neither do their opinions on what offends them.

I am opinionated, but not racist. If you think I am then you do NOT know what that term means.

If a person defends them self from a bully... it doesn't make them a bully too.

[Edited 11/3/11 8:42am]

paintedlady said:

Dewrede said:

^

You say Dave is not racist but yet you agree with his ban

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

It's like spanking your child for a vase he broke unintentionally ;

Saying intend doesn't matter is bs

and dragging blackface into the discussion and rambling on and on about it is bs because he didn't post a blackface pic

I never agreed to Dave being banned... I agreed with the removal of the image. It has no place here, since it causes division.

It was a blackface pic... not "minstrel" ...

there is a difference and I referred that pic to sambo mentality... its depiction is accurate.

Having Jimi all up in your avatar like you REALLY give a fuck give a fcuk about black folks... rolling up in here like you're professor Gates in some PBS special after reading one paragraph in Wikipedia playing like some expert.

Probably can't even get a tan...

Thanks for responding to my earlier post I have a quicky question here^^

Whats the difference between "Blackface" and "Minstrel" ? I thought both would have been the same thing? Sorry if I am being naive here, but I have looked into Blackface and it tends to go on to the "Minstrel" look and portayals - or at least saying they come from teh same historical events. Maybe I just havent looked in teh right places yet

Dewrede said:

^

1st -

How sad

What does that have to do with anything ?

Saying dumb shit like that proves that you are the one that's racist

2- Who gave you the authority to speak on behalf of all blacks ?

That's just laughable and proposterous

FYI , there's several blacks who commented on this thread that said that it's ridiculous that Dave got banned

[Edited 11/3/11 8:43am]

I am NOT speaking on behalf of all blacks.

I am expressing my opinion because

1- no one else is even though there were people who were offended and can see the pic as offensive... so discussion helps more than hurts.

2-because I can

3- I don't nor think you speak for ALL white people... why would you think that of me?

4- Surprisingly, black people are vary in ideals and view points... who would of thought!

[Edited 11/3/11 8:52am]

paintedlady said:

Dewrede said:

^

You say Dave is not racist but yet you agree with his ban

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

It's like spanking your child for a vase he broke unintentionally ;

Saying intend doesn't matter is bs

and dragging blackface into the discussion and rambling on and on about it is bs because he didn't post a blackface pic

I never agreed to Dave being banned... I agreed with the removal of the image. It has no place here, since it causes division.

It was a blackface pic... not "minstrel" ...

there is a difference and I referred that pic to sambo mentality... its depiction is accurate.

Having Jimi all up in your avatar like you REALLY give a fuck give a fcuk about black folks... rolling up in here like you're professor Gates in some PBS special after reading one paragraph in Wikipedia playing like some expert.

Probably can't even get a tan...

What does that mean?

itsnotallover said:

paintedlady said:

I never agreed to Dave being banned... I agreed with the removal of the image. It has no place here, since it causes division.

It was a blackface pic... not "minstrel" ...

there is a difference and I referred that pic to sambo mentality... its depiction is accurate.

Having Jimi all up in your avatar like you REALLY give a fuck give a fcuk about black folks... rolling up in here like you're professor Gates in some PBS special after reading one paragraph in Wikipedia playing like some expert.

Probably can't even get a tan...

Thanks for responding to my earlier post I have a quicky question here^^

Whats the difference between "Blackface" and "Minstrel" ? I thought both would have been the same thing? Sorry if I am being naive here, but I have looked into Blackface and it tends to go on to the "Minstrel" look and portayals - or at least saying they come from teh same historical events. Maybe I just havent looked in teh right places yet

Blackface is more widespread and CAN cater to the "junglebunny" /sambo/mandingo/savage

depictions where as minstrel is more of a classic time honored and specifically American tradition of white men dressing in black grease paint in vaudeville shows to imitate black culture in mockery.

Also many products were sold in those images of mockery of black culture in all the Americas.

Many celebrations of sambo images (blackface) are still done in many Latin American countries.

It can be Zulu warrior or range into the mammy images. Many people collect (black and white folks) the products that use these images, like cookie jars and dolls and such... even comic books.

They still make them.

GetAwayFromMe said:

paintedlady said:

I never agreed to Dave being banned... I agreed with the removal of the image. It has no place here, since it causes division.

It was a blackface pic... not "minstrel" ...

there is a difference and I referred that pic to sambo mentality... its depiction is accurate.

Having Jimi all up in your avatar like you REALLY give a fuck give a fcuk about black folks... rolling up in here like you're professor Gates in some PBS special after reading one paragraph in Wikipedia playing like some expert.

Probably can't even get a tan...

What does that mean?

Too late...

paintedlady said:

GetAwayFromMe said:

What does that mean?

Too late...

Too late for what?

GetAwayFromMe said:

paintedlady said:

Too late...

Too late for what?

Arguing... I already apologised to Dewere over that.

paintedlady said:

itsnotallover said:

Thanks for responding to my earlier post I have a quicky question here^^

Whats the difference between "Blackface" and "Minstrel" ? I thought both would have been the same thing? Sorry if I am being naive here, but I have looked into Blackface and it tends to go on to the "Minstrel" look and portayals - or at least saying they come from teh same historical events. Maybe I just havent looked in teh right places yet

Blackface is more widespread and CAN cater to the "junglebunny" /sambo/mandingo/savage

depictions where as minstrel is more of a classic time honored and specifically American tradition of white men dressing in black grease paint in vaudeville shows to imitate black culture in mockery.

Also many products were sold in those images of mockery of black culture in all the Americas.

Many celebrations of sambo images (blackface) are still done in many Latin American countries.

It can be Zulu warrior or range into the mammy images. Many people collect (black and white folks) the products that use these images, like cookie jars and dolls and such... even comic books.

They still make them.

Thanks for the Info, Junglebunny, Sambo and Savage I am familiar with, I have never heard the term Mandingo

As for the Products, we used to have stuff like that in the UK, the most famous being the Robertsons Jam Golly - Now obviously I cannot provide pictures or links to this now infamous Golly, but a Google search will help. This Golly was outlawed many years ago, because of the relationship between the original Gollies and their link to slavery (The original Gollies I think represented a Black Slave?), If I recall correctly.

In fact there was just this last week a Woman who appeared in Court after Police recieved a complaint from her Black neighbour for having a Golly doll in her Window.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...k-14897525

itsnotallover said:

dJJ said:

you know you should get banned for posting that pic, don't you?

I wasn't actually going to say anything, but seeing as there is a level of Hypocrisy going on here in this Thread:

I must admit that I personally do find anyone that dresses up as an Indigenous American, is being racially offensive, moreso when that person comes from the same Nation(s) as the one that wiped these People off the face of the Earth, Murdered Men, Women and Children, Raped the Women, Burned down their Homes, Starved them etc etc etc

And yes it does actually offend me, Yes I am White but that is irrelavent.

No I am not demanding the PIcture being removed, as I am making a point that the Site is being a little Hypocritical with its Moderation, Rule 1. You cannot post Pictures of White people dressed as Black people as its Racist

Sub Rule a) This does not apply to any other Colour ONLY Black.

Sorry Mods, but that in itself is wrong Rules for one and not the other are Discriminatory - Regardless of the reasons behind it.

If I were to dress up as Prince for halloween ( I would not darken my skin by tanning or make up). But I would dress like Prince, put on heavy eye make up, and wear a black wig). That is what the "lady" in the native costume is doing in a sense. She is celebrating not hating (It's not a negative image portrayal). If I was to color my skin black to be Prince-that would raise a few eyebrows.

Just food for thought.

The rest of this is not directed at your post btw.

As for the original offending picture (I did see it), I could see why some people would get offended. Infact that was my first thought when I saw it. I, as I said before, don't believe Dave's intentions were to offend anyone. I don't think some people understand how blackface makes people feel. Obviously by the posts in this thread a variety of feelings are attached to this subject of blackface. So, I asked some questions in post 108 of this thread. So, Ill repost a portion of it:

Having said that, I don't believe Dave understood that in part or fully. He just recklessly put that picture out. So, this is a teaching moment to those who don't understand what blackface means.

Perhaps some orgers could express their emotions about blackface and what it represents to them. So people who do not know, can learn.(And keep Dave out of your discussion-It's a teaching moment-not a rehash of what happened here.)

What does one think of whiteface? Is it used to make fun of a race? Is it okay?

If blackface is not ok-should whiteface be ok?

kewlschool said:

itsnotallover said:

I wasn't actually going to say anything, but seeing as there is a level of Hypocrisy going on here in this Thread:

I must admit that I personally do find anyone that dresses up as an Indigenous American, is being racially offensive, moreso when that person comes from the same Nation(s) as the one that wiped these People off the face of the Earth, Murdered Men, Women and Children, Raped the Women, Burned down their Homes, Starved them etc etc etc

And yes it does actually offend me, Yes I am White but that is irrelavent.

No I am not demanding the PIcture being removed, as I am making a point that the Site is being a little Hypocritical with its Moderation, Rule 1. You cannot post Pictures of White people dressed as Black people as its Racist

Sub Rule a) This does not apply to any other Colour ONLY Black.

Sorry Mods, but that in itself is wrong Rules for one and not the other are Discriminatory - Regardless of the reasons behind it.

If I were to dress up as Prince for halloween ( I would not darken my skin by tanning or make up). But I would dress like Prince, put on heavy eye make up, and wear a black wig). That is what the "lady" in the native costume is doing in a sense. She is celebrating not hating (It's not a negative image portrayal). If I was to color my skin black to be Prince-that would raise a few eyebrows.

Just food for thought.

The rest of this is not directed at your post btw.

As for the original offending picture (I did see it), I could see why some people would get offended. Infact that was my first thought when I saw it. I, as I said before, don't believe Dave's intentions were to offend anyone. I don't think some people understand how blackface makes people feel. Obviously by the posts in this thread a variety of feelings are attached to this subject of blackface. So, I asked some questions in post 108 of this thread. So, Ill repost a portion of it:

Having said that, I don't believe Dave understood that in part or fully. He just recklessly put that picture out. So, this is a teaching moment to those who don't understand what blackface means.

Perhaps some orgers could express their emotions about blackface and what it represents to them. So people who do not know, can learn.(And keep Dave out of your discussion-It's a teaching moment-not a rehash of what happened here.)

What does one think of whiteface? Is it used to make fun of a race? Is it okay?

If blackface is not ok-should whiteface be ok?

Having read Paintedlady's responses on page 6 and 7 of this thread, I feel that she was expressing her views and feelings on the subject quite honest and thoughtful-until her buttons were pushed. But that's besides the point, Paintedlady is allowed to have her thoughts and feelings on the subject and that's fine. Others can have their opinions and that's fine. But my questions are offered to gain understanding of each other on this subject, not to reinforce what you already know. That's what discussion is all about, getting to know other peoples positions and feelings.

So the people that are aggressive towards Paintedlady might just want to get to know why she feels the way she does, instead of getting angry at her for her stance.

It goes back to the old saying appreciate our differences and celebrate our similarities

For the bit you responded to me, there was (in all honesty) a deep sarcasm intended in the post, I was not actually offended completely - Nor did I request the Picture be removed, but my Comments do stand as in to say that we can not differentiate what is and isnt offensive, However in all honesty I do not think that it is a suitable practice to dress as another race / person etc where there is some sensitivity attached - Ironically as I pointed out earlier, there is no way in hell I could walk down teh street wearing a Turban and singing "I love Curry" as that would be illegal and classed as Racial Harrasment, yet I could do the same wearing leiderhausen, with a Jar of Sauerkraut singing the German National anthem and people would be ok with it, in fact more than ok, they would clap and laugh .

So the point I was trying to make is you cannot classify one and declassify another - It is either offensive or not offensive and given the American Settlers history reference to the Indigenous Americans extinction, because thats what it practically was, I do feel that I made a valid point I wasn't having a go at anyone specific - Just trying to bring a point into focus.

We cannot pick and choose what is and isnt offensive, we act accordingly when it is offensive though.

I have been very happy that throughout my Postings on this Thread, I have recieved non aggresive responses, which is good. I am a White person, so will never understand fully how this sort of thing will affect a Black person, but this does not stop me trying to want to understand, hence my joining in on the discussion. Paintedlady has been lovely with her responses, I now understand a little more and can see things a little more clearly.

We have to remember, all of us, that offending someones ethinicity is not always an act of Racism or prejudice. I mentioned earlier in the thread the term "Nitty Gritty" we all heard Prince sing it, we all probably say it, but the Term itself has an alleged vile history.

Nitty Gritty

In that context it has been alleged that 'nitty-gritty' is a derogatory reference to the English slave trade of the 18th century. The phrase is usually used with the prefix 'getting down to' and there is a sense that, whatever the nitty-gritty is, it is at the bottom of something. The suggestion is that it originated as a term for the unimportant debris left at the bottom of ships after the slaves had been removed and that the meaning was extended to include the slaves themselves. That report became widely known following newspaper reports of an 'equality and diversity' course for Bristol Council employees in 2005.

However, this is just alleged, there are lots of different variations of where it came from, such as teh Romans, Headlice, Pubic Lice etc.

I came here to say one thing....

I love this friggin' thread!

Lawd, I missed all the wackiness again. Thank goodness

morningsong said:

Lawd, I missed all the wackiness again. Thank goodness

Welcome back to The World Of Loonies.

So why is his account still not activated ?

It's been well over a week

Dewrede said:

So why is his account still not activated ?

It's been well over a week

looks like they gave him a perma ban.

funkmunki said:

Dewrede said:

So why is his account still not activated ?

It's been well over a week

looks like they gave him a perma ban.

Alright, who did you used to be?

[img:$uid]http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc404/funkmunki/4a29a767.gif[/img:$uid]

i saw davetheraves pic & all i can see is a little kid pretending to be a zulu warrior!! he was doing damage with that spear & as 4 all that racist nonsense?!! anyone can see his mum was being creative, going 4 an authentic look, it's not mocking, it's giving props!! i could understand if he was being a minstrel

so i seriously can's see what the fuss about, it doesn't seem to be much of issue in uk & most get along lovely. few years back i went to the nottinghill carnival all blacked & dredlocked up, i was bob fking marley in my head!! nobody gave a shit, everyone having too much FUN.

& we just celebrated bonfire night, i went into lewes.. blackface galore! smugglars, zulus, indians, soldiers, heros represented! the societies celebrate these people, legends in history! i'd love to post pics, plenty black peeps in the crowd having fun!.. it's very 'wickerman', they burn crosses to remember the protestant martyrs who were burnt by the catolic church. at the end of the night the pope get thrown on the bonfire! the bastard!.. americans behind us having kittens cuz kkk association with the crosses which says it all imo

DoffieParker said:

i saw davetheraves pic & all i can see is a little kid pretending to be a zulu warrior!! he was doing damage with that spear & as 4 all that racist nonsense?!! anyone can see his mum was being creative, going 4 an authentic look, it's not mocking, it's giving props!! i could understand if he was being a minstrel

so i seriously can's see what the fuss about, it doesn't seem to be much of issue in uk & most get along lovely. few years back i went to the nottinghill carnival all blacked & dredlocked up, i was bob fking marley in my head!! nobody gave a shit, everyone having too much FUN.

& we just celebrated bonfire night, i went into lewes.. blackface galore! smugglars, zulus, indians, soldiers, heros represented! the societies celebrate these people, legends in history! i'd love to post pics, plenty black peeps in the crowd having fun!.. it's very 'wickerman', they burn crosses to remember the protestant martyrs who were burnt by the catolic church. at the end of the night the pope get thrown on the bonfire! the bastard!.. americans behind us having kittens cuz kkk association with the crosses which says it all imo

i miss davetherave too

starkitty said:

oh cool. that dude was kinda creepy.

Only Pickles can call me creepy.....Eye also find u quite creepy....Who r u anyway???Do u post once a month??Uve been on the org since 2005???Wow....Never heard of u?? U have the impact on the Org a bit like a fart in the wind...