TonyVanDam said:

SeventeenDayze said:

What did he have to do with Biggie Smalls? Time for you to spill the tea here, Tony!

As it was the case of Jimmy Iovine benefited from the death of 2pac, Clive Davis benefited from the death of Biggie.

Remember, it was Clive Davis that gave Sean Combs the start up money to create Bad Boy Entertainment, the label that Biggie was on. This was also the very same Bad Boy Entertainment that was distributed for the first couple of years by Clive's Arista Records.

Oh I see. Now, for some reason, all those gay rumors I have heard over the years about Diddy come to mind when I read your comments....taking into consideration Clive Davis' own admissions in the past several months or so.

TonyVanDam said:

MickyDolenz said:

Here's a comment from a 2007 Daryl Hall interview. Tommy Mottola used to be their manager in the 1970s. Hall & Oates 1976 song Gino is about Tommy.

.

Pitchfork: There must have been commercial pressure-- you have a hit album with a bunch of hit songs, so the next time you want to have at least that many hits?

.

DH: Yeah, there was a lot of pressure. And I didn't succumb to it. I quit. I quit, and I told them to fuck themselves basically. I signed with the ultimate dictator, Clive Davis, and it wasn't my idea to sign with him-- and I had fights with him, and I walked away from him. Somebody just talked the other day about Kelly Clarkson, right now [she's] in some spat with Clive Davis. I said, "I've been there." And that is the same spat you always have with Clive Davis. He wants you to do something, and if you don't want to do it, it's either his way or the highway, really. And I took the highway. Because nobody's going to tell me what to do. It's my music. I stand by it.

I have new and improved respect for Daryl Hall.

So, I Can't Go For That wasn't just a catchy tune, I guess homeboy lived by it too!

SoulAlive said:

kitbradley said:

Well, we are all very familiar with Nippy Houston's and Mimi's falls from grace. But, I have to throw Diana Ross into this mix also. Before Nippy came in and took over the reign in 1985, in the 60's, 70's and, to a lesser extend, early 80's, Diane was the world's most successful black Pop diva. No one could touch her. Then, after 1984, her record sales plummeted. From 1988 to present, she has failed to place an album in the Top 100 on the Billboard Pop charts. Although she continued to perform well on the R&B chart, she's only managed one Top Ten Pop album over the last 34 years, 1980's "Diana".

she experienced the inevitable decline of popularity,but she had quite a run.It's amazing how many of the Motown artists (Smokey,Stevie,Diana,etc) had hit singles in the 60s,70s,80s.These days,artists are lucky if they last more than five years

It's really a shame because people ended up missing out on some of the best albums of Diana's career.

SeventeenDayze said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

That's what P-Diddy said. Someone did a thread on him awhile back.

I dunno, why are people like Lil Wayne, Jay Z and Rihanna still popular though? It seems that the same 20 people have been famous for like 10 years and it's getting old already since it's always the same stale, boring acts.

I've noticed this too. You mean to tell me that in 2014, our top stars are still Kanye West, Beyonce, Eminem, Justin Timberlake, the people you mentioned, and others? I think this is due to a combination of 2 things:

1. The veteran acts don't want to step out of the spotlight.

2. These veteran acts are either industry darlings (Timberlake, Eminem, and Rihanna I suppose) and/ or have the power to monopolize the media (Jay Z and Beyonce, maybe Kanye) in order to stay front and center.

This isn't to say there have been no new stars coming in over the years or there are no top stars other than the aforementioned names but they arguably aren't as big as these veteran acts, are featured less than them, or have had their 15 minutes of fame and have faded into the background while other artists come in and the vets stay on top.

I don't have anything against artists having long careers and I prefer for them to have as long a career as possible instead of it being cut short for whatever reason when they have the talent to make it last longer (like Kanye). However it feels more like these acts are being shoved down our throats and disregarding the fans and stans of these artists, many people are swallowing the Kool Aid instead of spitting it up. It's like there's an underlying agenda in the media/ music industry to make sure that we accept these artists as the GOAT through sheer overexposure and oversaturation.

What makes it so bad is that all these acts except Jay and Em are no older than their 30s with the youngest being Rihanna at 26 so they'll likely be sticking around for loooong time. Looking forward to 2024 and seeing Jay Z at 53 years old still "dominating" the game with 43 year old Beyonce still being prominently featured as having pop music on smash as a young, rising talent...

[Edited 9/2/14 7:39am]

[Edited 9/2/14 7:40am]

[Edited 9/2/14 7:43am]

SeventeenDayze said:

TonyVanDam said:

As it was the case of Jimmy Iovine benefited from the death of 2pac, Clive Davis benefited from the death of Biggie.

Remember, it was Clive Davis that gave Sean Combs the start up money to create Bad Boy Entertainment, the label that Biggie was on. This was also the very same Bad Boy Entertainment that was distributed for the first couple of years by Clive's Arista Records.

Oh I see. Now, for some reason, all those gay rumors I have heard over the years about Diddy come to mind when I read your comments....taking into consideration Clive Davis' own admissions in the past several months or so.

As you know, when an recording artist dies, their music sells more. And when Biggie got killed (6 months after the murder of 2pac, no less), Clive was making money. Same thing happen after Whitney Houston died as rumored to be Clive's blood sacrifice.

thedoorkeeper said:

Bell Bill DeVoe. 1 hit album and that was it. Of course the biggest fall from grace is Michael Jackson. He went from being the golden boy to being shunned. And Elvis too. The biggest star in the 50's. Managed to retain some credibility in the 60's. Then the fat loser who could only work Vegas in the 70's.

Many artists would have killed to have the fall from grace Michael did. The dude still sold out shows internationally, still sold 10s of millions of albums, still broke records, and still had several charting songs.

[Edited 9/2/14 8:14am]

Duran Duran were hailed as the new Beatles in the early-to-mid 80s and then received far less attention in the late 80s. Their career from 1993 (Wedding album) onwards was solid, but not spectacular.

.

Oasis lost a lot of their relevance after the "Morning glory" album.

.

As she was mentioned in another thread on here: Neneh Cherry. She was on top in 1989, but her career went nowhere afterwards. Similar situation for Sidney Youngblood.

.

Jason Donovan had a short tenure as a highly successful male popstar. Just like Limahl a couple of years earlier.

MotownSubdivision said:

Macy Gray and Alanis Morissette. Both had massively successful albums that you heard everywhere at the time of their release, but then neither could ever get anywhere near that with susequent releases - and, after a pretty short while, the two of them could hardly give it away.

MotownSubdivision said:

I've noticed this too. You mean to tell me that in 2014, our top stars are still Kanye West, Beyonce, Eminem, Justin Timberlake, the people you mentioned, and others? I think this is due to a combination of 2 things:

All of the acts mentioned are under the age of 35. Once they surpass 35, their careers will take a huge downward spiral. They will be replaced by younger artists and will have to settle for mid-level careers. It happens with every generation of singers.

Amy Winehouse kinda lost everything between 2010-2011.. She dominated the world three years ago from that time... Her drug obssession ruined everything.

kitbradley said:

MotownSubdivision said:

All of the acts mentioned are under the age of 35. Once they surpass 35, their careers will take a huge downward spiral. They will be replaced by younger artists and will have to settle for mid-level careers. It happens with every generation of singers.

Kanye is pushing 40 at 37 years of age and Eminem is 2 months removed from being 42. If you're also including Jay Z, he'll be 45 in December.

thedoorkeeper said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Many artists would have killed to have the fall from grace Michael did. The dude still sold out shows internationally, still sold 10s of millions of albums, still broke records, and still had several charting songs.

[Edited 9/2/14 8:14am]

I believe for the last ten years of his life MJ was a has been. There were no international tours, no chart topping songs. The music he sold was from his catalog not new exciting releases. The only records he broke were paying record legal fees brought on by his own foolishness. Like Elvis he rose to the top and like Elvis he fell a long way down destroyed by his own pride.

The 30th Anniversary Special that sold out two shows at Madison Square Garden in 2001?

Invincible debuting at #1 on the charts and selling 6 million in a matter of weeks (or was it a few months)?

This Is It selling out in a matter of minutes?

Any other artist that has been accused of child molestation twice let alone once and has spent the large part of the last decade of his or her life headlining tabloids and constantly labeled as a freak would have been lucky to accomplish a thumbnail of that.

And yeah, MJ did have a slight hand in what became the downfall of his career but let's not act as though it was completely his fault. And I fail to see what pride had to do with his downfall nor how he was a has been.

MotownSubdivision said:

kitbradley said:

All of the acts mentioned are under the age of 35. Once they surpass 35, their careers will take a huge downward spiral. They will be replaced by younger artists and will have to settle for mid-level careers. It happens with every generation of singers.

Kanye is pushing 40 at 37 years of age and Eminem is 2 months removed from being 42. If you're also including Jay Z, he'll be 45 in December.

Really? I don't listen to much Hip-Hop but I guess things must have dramatically changed. Once upon a time in Hip-Hop, once you hit 30, you were considered elderly and no one wanted to hear what you had to say. Are there currently any women over the age of 35 in any genre riding the top of the charts?

kitbradley said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Kanye is pushing 40 at 37 years of age and Eminem is 2 months removed from being 42. If you're also including Jay Z, he'll be 45 in December.

Really? I don't listen to much Hip-Hop but I guess things must have dramatically changed. Once upon a time in Hip-Hop, once you hit 30, you were considered elderly and no one wanted to hear what you had to say. Are there currently any women over the age of 35 in any genre riding the top of the charts?

I don't think there are any female artists over 35 though I can tell you that P!nk may be the oldest as she'll be 35 in a matter of days. Then again she's had sporadic charting songs ever since I found out who she was 2 years ago and the last time I heard a song of her's on the radio was some time last year and I rarely listen to the radio any more as is but I haven't heard anything about her in while so I'm assuming traffic is light on her end. I guess it's kind of a surprise that she's had any charting song since turning 30?

MotownSubdivision said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I dunno, why are people like Lil Wayne, Jay Z and Rihanna still popular though? It seems that the same 20 people have been famous for like 10 years and it's getting old already since it's always the same stale, boring acts.

I've noticed this too. You mean to tell me that in 2014, our top stars are still Kanye West, Beyonce, Eminem, Justin Timberlake, the people you mentioned, and others? I think this is due to a combination of 2 things:

1. The veteran acts don't want to step out of the spotlight.

2. These veteran acts are either industry darlings (Timberlake, Eminem, and Rihanna I suppose) and/ or have the power to monopolize the media (Jay Z and Beyonce, maybe Kanye) in order to stay front and center.

This isn't to say there have been no new stars coming in over the years or there are no top stars other than the aforementioned names but they arguably aren't as big as these veteran acts, are featured less than them, or have had their 15 minutes of fame and have faded into the background while other artists come in and the vets stay on top.

I don't have anything against artists having long careers and I prefer for them to have as long a career as possible instead of it being cut short for whatever reason when they have the talent to make it last longer (like Kanye). However it feels more like these acts are being shoved down our throats and disregarding the fans and stans of these artists, many people are swallowing the Kool Aid instead of spitting it up. It's like there's an underlying agenda in the media/ music industry to make sure that we accept these artists as the GOAT through sheer overexposure and oversaturation.

What makes it so bad is that all these acts except Jay and Em are no older than their 30s with the youngest being Rihanna at 26 so they'll likely be sticking around for loooong time. Looking forward to 2024 and seeing Jay Z at 53 years old still "dominating" the game with 43 year old Beyonce still being prominently featured as having pop music on smash as a young, rising talent...

[Edited 9/2/14 7:39am]

[Edited 9/2/14 7:40am]

[Edited 9/2/14 7:43am]

I agree 100 percent with everything you said. Some people are going to be around just because they oversaturate the market and not necessarily because they are just "so talented". I am sick of seeing the same folks over and over again and it does seem like they are shoved down our throats. I think they pay off the media to make them seem relevant when they are not. Some people are sheep and they will like anything labeled as popular for any length of time. You could make a parrot famous and then you'd have 20 million people on Twitter following the bird. I think your prediction about 2024 is scary but painfully accurate about what we can anticipate. I think these folks need to hang it up and let someone else come along for a change. I seriously doubt these folks are just that special, they just have a lot of money to spend on marketing and to spend on keeping other people out of the game with their shady record contract deals that entrap young artists and then give them no airplay. I heard Weaveonce's dad was big on competition killing along the way to her road to stardom....

kitbradley said:

MotownSubdivision said:

All of the acts mentioned are under the age of 35. Once they surpass 35, their careers will take a huge downward spiral. They will be replaced by younger artists and will have to settle for mid-level careers. It happens with every generation of singers.

Rapper 2Chainz is 35/36 and wildly popular. There are a lot of "older" rappers that have huge followings of kids that probably think 35 is like 85 lol....

SeventeenDayze said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

That's what P-Diddy said. Someone did a thread on him awhile back.

I dunno, why are people like Lil Wayne, Jay Z and Rihanna still popular though? It seems that the same 20 people have been famous for like 10 years and it's getting old already since it's always the same stale, boring acts.

The twenty selected ones that made it past five years. There's more than 20 people in the music business, and counting.

MotownSubdivision said:

kitbradley said:

Really? I don't listen to much Hip-Hop but I guess things must have dramatically changed. Once upon a time in Hip-Hop, once you hit 30, you were considered elderly and no one wanted to hear what you had to say. Are there currently any women over the age of 35 in any genre riding the top of the charts?

I don't think there are any female artists over 35 though I can tell you that P!nk may be the oldest as she'll be 35 in a matter of days. Then again she's had sporadic charting songs ever since I found out who she was 2 years ago and the last time I heard a song of her's on the radio was some time last year and I rarely listen to the radio any more as is but I haven't heard anything about her in while so I'm assuming traffic is light on her end. I guess it's kind of a surprise that she's had any charting song since turning 30?

I think it's different in hip-hop when it comes to an artists' age. I think for some reason now, kids are accepting of older rappers, either that or it's because most people under 21 don't see people over 30 any different than their older siblings or something. I can't quite figure it out either. Back in the day, a lot of hip hop artists faded out once they hit 27 or so. Not sure how or when it changed but it has, big time. I am amazed that there are kids who listen to Eminem and Jay-Z knowing that they are 20 years older than their core audience! Maybe it's no different than people who like jazz artists who are much older. It's a mystery to me

kitbradley said:

Once they surpass 35, their careers will take a huge downward spiral.

There's sometimes an exception though. In the early 1970s, Rufus Thomas was having hits on the R&B charts and he was in his mid 50s. His first big hit came in his 40s with Walking The Dog. Then there's Tina Turner's comeback in 1984 when she was around 45 after years of obscurity. George Harrison had a hit album (Cloud Nine) when he was 45 and a #1 song (I Got My Mind Set On You). Paul Simon was around the same age when Graceland became a big hit album.

MickyDolenz said:

kitbradley said:

Once they surpass 35, their careers will take a huge downward spiral.

There's sometimes an exception though. In the early 1970s, Rufus Thomas was having hits on the R&B charts and he was in his mid 50s. His first big hit came in his 40s with Walking The Dog. Then there's Tina Turner's comeback in 1984 when she was around 45 after years of obscurity. George Harrison had a hit album (Cloud Nine) when he was 45 and a #1 song (I Got My Mind Set On You). Paul Simon was around the same age when Graceland became a big hit album.

And let's not forget Prince Rogers Nelson had a huge hit with Musicology when he was 45

Can't be bothered to go through that many pages, so I'll just say...


George Michael

Cerebus said:

Can't be bothered to go through that many pages, so I'll just say...


George Michael

I was thinking about him the other day. I think this is a good example of a fall from grace. He had so much potential to go even further but maybe it had a lot to do with his records not being promoted as much as they should have been towards the later stages of his popularity....after Faith, did he just disappear or something? I think he had some good tracks like Fastlove and Amazing that came later, so he really had the chops to still make good music.

Cerebus said:

MotownSubdivision said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I dunno, why are people like Lil Wayne, Jay Z and Rihanna still popular though? It seems that the same 20 people have been famous for like 10 years and it's getting old already since it's always the same stale, boring acts.

I've noticed this too. You mean to tell me that in 2014, our top stars are still Kanye West, Beyonce, Eminem, Justin Timberlake, the people you mentioned, and others? I think this is due to a combination of 2 things:

1. The veteran acts don't want to step out of the spotlight.

2. These veteran acts are either industry darlings (Timberlake, Eminem, and Rihanna I suppose) and/ or have the power to monopolize the media (Jay Z and Beyonce, maybe Kanye) in order to stay front and center.

This isn't to say there have been no new stars coming in over the years or there are no top stars other than the aforementioned names but they arguably aren't as big as these veteran acts, are featured less than them, or have had their 15 minutes of fame and have faded into the background while other artists come in and the vets stay on top.

I don't have anything against artists having long careers and I prefer for them to have as long a career as possible instead of it being cut short for whatever reason when they have the talent to make it last longer (like Kanye). However it feels more like these acts are being shoved down our throats and disregarding the fans and stans of these artists, many people are swallowing the Kool Aid instead of spitting it up. It's like there's an underlying agenda in the media/ music industry to make sure that we accept these artists as the GOAT through sheer overexposure and oversaturation.

What makes it so bad is that all these acts except Jay and Em are no older than their 30s with the youngest being Rihanna at 26 so they'll likely be sticking around for loooong time. Looking forward to 2024 and seeing Jay Z at 53 years old still "dominating" the game with 43 year old Beyonce still being prominently featured as having pop music on smash as a young, rising talent...

[Edited 9/2/14 7:39am]

[Edited 9/2/14 7:40am]

[Edited 9/2/14 7:43am]

I agree with this entire post but especially the bolded.I think there is definitly a hidden industry agenda to only market certain veteran acts and to make it appear as though these acts are above the other current artists because of their overexposure and saturation. Stans are always saying their fav is slaying everybody but I want to know who is "everybody" because it is only the same 5 acts that is being marketed The industry has sliced the competition and clearly does not want to market newer acts. I think the public needs to stop accepting these acts simply because its accessible. If there was a big backlash from the public I think the industry would market newer acts.

SeventeenDayze said:

MotownSubdivision said:

I've noticed this too. You mean to tell me that in 2014, our top stars are still Kanye West, Beyonce, Eminem, Justin Timberlake, the people you mentioned, and others? I think this is due to a combination of 2 things:

1. The veteran acts don't want to step out of the spotlight.

2. These veteran acts are either industry darlings (Timberlake, Eminem, and Rihanna I suppose) and/ or have the power to monopolize the media (Jay Z and Beyonce, maybe Kanye) in order to stay front and center.

This isn't to say there have been no new stars coming in over the years or there are no top stars other than the aforementioned names but they arguably aren't as big as these veteran acts, are featured less than them, or have had their 15 minutes of fame and have faded into the background while other artists come in and the vets stay on top.

I don't have anything against artists having long careers and I prefer for them to have as long a career as possible instead of it being cut short for whatever reason when they have the talent to make it last longer (like Kanye). However it feels more like these acts are being shoved down our throats and disregarding the fans and stans of these artists, many people are swallowing the Kool Aid instead of spitting it up. It's like there's an underlying agenda in the media/ music industry to make sure that we accept these artists as the GOAT through sheer overexposure and oversaturation.

What makes it so bad is that all these acts except Jay and Em are no older than their 30s with the youngest being Rihanna at 26 so they'll likely be sticking around for loooong time. Looking forward to 2024 and seeing Jay Z at 53 years old still "dominating" the game with 43 year old Beyonce still being prominently featured as having pop music on smash as a young, rising talent...

[Edited 9/2/14 7:39am]

[Edited 9/2/14 7:40am]

[Edited 9/2/14 7:43am]

I agree 100 percent with everything you said. Some people are going to be around just because they oversaturate the market and not necessarily because they are just "so talented". I am sick of seeing the same folks over and over again and it does seem like they are shoved down our throats. I think they pay off the media to make them seem relevant when they are not. Some people are sheep and they will like anything labeled as popular for any length of time. You could make a parrot famous and then you'd have 20 million people on Twitter following the bird. I think your prediction about 2024 is scary but painfully accurate about what we can anticipate. I think these folks need to hang it up and let someone else come along for a change. I seriously doubt these folks are just that special, they just have a lot of money to spend on marketing and to spend on keeping other people out of the game with their shady record contract deals that entrap young artists and then give them no airplay. I heard Weaveonce's dad was big on competition killing along the way to her road to stardom....

Most definitly and this has actually been already exposed as a fact. Money= power

My thing is I wouldn't mind these acts as much if they were actually making creative music or at least trying to be somewhat artistic because it wouldn't be as boring and repetitive. Its one thing if they are constantly in our faces coming out with fresh, new and exciting ideas versus the same tired bland material. I also think this hypersexual propaganda that is being marketed through these female pop stars is the worse thing that could happen to the industry. Its almost as if there is a secret sexual elite group in the industry that tells these female pop stars to make soft porn performances and videos or else. Its absolutely disgusting that these hypersexual acts are considered acceptable and entertaining.

Cerebus said:

Can't be bothered to go through that many pages, so I'll just say...


George Michael

Musically speaking, George Michael is an underachiever. At one time during the late 1980's, this man during the Faith-era of his career was damn nearly on the same level as Michael, Prince, & Madonna while ranking higher than Bruce Springteen, Phil Collins, & Lionel Ritchie in THAT order (yes, I said it!). But instead of staying on the r&b/soul/jazz-funk infesting dance-pop course, George wanted to mature quicking to the adult-contemporary ASAP. As a result, Listen Without Prejudice Vol.1 album because a double edge sword. On one hand, the album is a very good listen on its own merits. But on the other hard, that same album is responsibile for slowing down the momentum that once existed because of the Faith album. And the fact that the public fallout between George and (the too controlling) Sony Music Entertainment resulted in Listen Without Prejudice Vol.2 (which was rumored to have mostly uptempo dance tracks, hence making it the opposite of Vol.1) to never been released didn't help matters any.