Militant said:

The thing with Terence is that Neither Fish Nor Flesh is just a completely inaccessible record. If it weren't for that record, I think the follow up, Symphony or Damn could potentially have been almost as big as his debut.

Neither Fish Nor Flesh is by far my favorite TTD album. As much as I love Symphony or Damn, Fish is just so much more unique and powerful. As for Introducing the Hardline..., I wouldn't say it's a bad record but I never listen to it - just way too mainstream.

I don't think anyone had it worse than Milli Vanilli (Rob & Fab) OR Billy Squirer.

All the hair metal bands before grunge hit it big.

I know he's a supadupa star and I like him,but Michael Jackson after Thriller wasn't the same.If you freezeframe a time period 1983-1984 MJ was just IT.The Bad album sold about 8 million copies,a third of what Thriller did,which was 24 million,this was 1987.

MJ took a beating from the press leading up to the Bad album,which his manager Frank Dileo promoted his bizarness,which backfired,like the sleeping in the hyperbaric chamber,buying of elephant bones and his ever changing appearance.The cosmetic surgery and gradual lightning of his skin.Urban audiences were slowly turning on him,it was documented.

Then came the child molestation accusations in 1993 and it was all she wrote.Still hugely popular but with notable red marks.

TonyVanDam said:

I don't think anyone had it worse than Milli Vanilli (Rob & Fab) OR Billy Squirer.

Girl who know it

Girl who know it

Girl who know it

Girl who know it

Girl who know it

Alanis Morisette?

ufoclub said:

Alanis Morisette?

Yeah she had that one mega album "Jagged Pill" some shit like that and fell off.Same can be said about Hootie and Blowfish who huge album was released same time period and then they fell off.

pdiddy2011 said:

I have to go with Milli Vinilli. They were immensely hot for the period when all of their singles seemed to be on fire. They seemed primed to become the next super duo. Then the scandal broke, and they went from on top of the world to somewhere below middle earth. They seemed to be the punchline to EVERY JOKE related to music for many years to follow.

I still love this no matter who sang it

iaminparties said:

Stax Records when Al Bell took over

Janet Jackson after Superbowl.

Van Halen with Gary Cherone

Genesis with Ray Wilson

Beastie Boys when they released Paul's Boutique. But the audience came back for Check Your Head.

Duran Duran post Notorious, until Ordinary World. Then fell off again with the remakes album.

Marvin Gaye when he released Here My Dear

Paul McCartney after Give My Regards To Broad Street

Bobby Brown

Tevin Campbell

George Michael

El DeBarge

Commodores after Lionel Richie left

The Supremes after Diana Ross left

Garth Brooks when he released the Chris Gaines album

BlackCat1985 said:

Michael Jackson! Before he died the media and everyday folks said all kinds of nasty things about him.

Hell yeah! and then when he died everyone acted like oh I love his music.Bullshit! I knew a few celebrities and relatives who hated him and acted like he was God when he died.

MotownSubdivision said:

iaminparties said:

I know he's a supadupa star and I like him,but Michael Jackson after Thriller wasn't the same.If you freezeframe a time period 1983-1984 MJ was just IT.The Bad album sold about 8 million copies,a third of what Thriller did,which was 24 million,this was 1987.

MJ took a beating from the press leading up to the Bad album,which his manager Frank Dileo promoted his bizarness,which backfired,like the sleeping in the hyperbaric chamber,buying of elephant bones and his ever changing appearance.The cosmetic surgery and gradual lightning of his skin.Urban audiences were slowly turning on him,it was documented.

Then came the child molestation accusations in 1993 and it was all she wrote.Still hugely popular but with notable red marks.

I think many would love to have the fall from grace that MJ had. 8 million is still a lot of albums to be sold although he had the unenviable task of having to deal with a lot of people judging his music based on how well it sold compared to Thriller rather than how good the actual music was. Apparently if it didn't sell more than the greatest selling album of all time, that meant it was a bad album (see what I did there?).

Alot of people weren't buying Bad,because they were being turned off by his behavior,which is sad.I was noting his sharp decline in sales,because of the media,opposed to the actual music.Music is subjective.Of course Thriller was just the perfect storm of events.

iaminparties said:

TonyVanDam said:

I don't think anyone had it worse than Milli Vanilli (Rob & Fab) OR Billy Squirer.

Girl who know it

Girl who know it

Girl who know it

Girl who know it

Girl who know it

the scrach of death....loll

Milli VAnilli stands at #1 spot

I knew they lyp synching from day one

when they received those 2 Grammys in 1990 for best pop album and new act

I knew then the recording industry was done....toast...milk butter toast......

Grammys ain't been the same since, only exception is when Natalie Cole won those five Grammys for her beautiful album UNFORGETABLE...

I dunno the Billy Squirer story.Gonna have to read up on that.

Scorp said:

iaminparties said:

Girl who know it

Girl who know it

Girl who know it

Girl who know it

Girl who know it

the scrach of death....loll

Milli VAnilli stands at #1 spot

I knew they lyp synching from day one

when they received those 2 Grammys in 1990 for best pop album and new act

I knew then the recording industry was done....toast...milk butter toast......

Grammys ain't been the same since, only exception is when Natalie Cole won those five Grammys for her beautiful album UNFORGETABLE...

I saw the behind the music on them many moons ago and they were performing in concert and the record got caught and from what i can remember,they just walked off the stage.

I love your threads Motown!

Michael did not fall from grace but he fell out of the media and industry good graces. All of his albums have sold more than 10 million copies world wide including Invincible (currently certified at 10 million world wide). So the public still loved him despite all the bad press. If we look at his past sold out tours and the number of fans in attendance, it shows that he was still very popular/marketable. Hell, This is It 2009, he sold out 50 shows in ONE ARENA venue at the age of 50 with two accusations, countless tabloid junkie madness, and not to mention it had been over 10 years since he toured!...but still sold out. NO ONE could do that but Michael Jackson. If it had been a different singer with a different type of talent that received Michael's harsh media treatment they would have been done by 87' let alone the first accusation.

However,

I think Michael fell out of the media's good graces after 1984. After Thriller, the media no longer depicted him as "the boy next door shy super star that everybody loved". I would say he fell out of the media's good graces because they conspired to tarnish his image and make him a negative target for ridicule. They made him the "crack of the jokes" and the target to throw tomatoes at for the hell of it. His music contributions and talent were after thoughts and its sad because it should not have to take the death of someone for people to treat them with respect or like a real person.

*********

If I had to choose someone who had a big fall from grace, Janet is the first to come to mind. She rivaled her superstar brother in certain capacities and proved to be a true star in her own terms. She was the media darling and the media loved her as well as everybody. She is one of the biggest selling artists of all time but currently can't sell out an Arena or Stadium. The music industry treats her like she never existed and blacklisted her when the SB crap went down. She still has not recovered from it. She will always be an Icon but its almost as if her impact and legacy never existed. Her own industry peers don't even show her the respect she deserves for her contributions.

iaminparties said:

Scorp said:

the scrach of death....loll

Milli VAnilli stands at #1 spot

I knew they lyp synching from day one

when they received those 2 Grammys in 1990 for best pop album and new act

I knew then the recording industry was done....toast...milk butter toast......

Grammys ain't been the same since, only exception is when Natalie Cole won those five Grammys for her beautiful album UNFORGETABLE...

I saw the behind the music on them many moons ago and they were performing in concert and the record got caught and from what i can remember,they just walked off the stage.

they ran outta there....lolll

they had to return those Grammys.......and it was a wrap.....

I can't believe the recording academy gave them those 2 Grammies when so many luminaries of during music's glory era were awarded nothing.....

mjscarousal said:

I love your threads Motown!

Michael did not fall from grace but he fell out of the media and industry good graces. All of his albums have sold more than 10 million copies world wide including Invincible (currently certified at 10 million world wide). So the public still loved him despite all the bad press. If we look at his past sold out tours and the number of fans in attendance, it shows that he was still very popular/marketable. Hell, This is It 2009, he sold out 50 shows in ONE ARENA venue at the age of 50 with two accusations, countless tabloid junkie madness, and not to mention it had been over 10 years since he toured!...but still sold out. NO ONE could do that but Michael Jackson. If it had been a different singer with a different type of talent that received Michael's harsh media treatment they would have been done by 87' let alone the first accusation.

However,

I think Michael fell out of the media's good graces after 1984. After Thriller, the media no longer depicted him as "the boy next door shy super star that everybody loved". I would say he fell out of the media's good graces because they conspired to tarnish his image and make him a negative target for ridicule. They made him the "crack of the jokes" and the target to throw tomatoes at for the hell of it. His music contributions and talent were after thoughts and its sad because it should not have to take the death of someone for people to treat them with respect or like a real person.

*********

If I had to choose someone who had a big fall from grace, Janet is the first to come to mind. She rivaled her superstar brother in certain capacities and proved to be a true star in her own terms. She was the media darling and the media loved her as well as everybody. She is one of the biggest selling artists of all time but currently can't sell out an Arena or Stadium. The music industry treats her like she never existed and blacklisted her when the SB crap went down. She still has not recovered from it. She will always be an Icon but its almost as if her impact and legacy never existed. Her own industry peers don't even show her the respect she deserves for her contributions.

MJ was still the most revered artists of the planet beyond 1984 because he and Lionel Richie co-wrote WE ARE THE WORLD during the beginning of 1985, recording during the time that year's Grammy Awards took place

MJ received so much respect in 1985, WE ARE THE WORLD was played on every single major radio station in the country simultaneously.......at the same time, the country played the same song.......along with that, there was like a WE ARE THE WORLD day where people from the very west coast of the country to the very east coast held hands showing unity.......that's 3 thousand miles of people joining hands.......THAT'S RESPECT.....

and up until 1986, he still received the respect because he won yet another Grammy for the pinning of the song.......

it was all there....all he had to do was continue the path that was set out for him, which was predicated on his immense gift for song and dance.....

during the later stage of 1986, this is when the tide began to turn w/in the ranks of the establishment because MJ began presenting his life and career as "the biggest show on earth", all based on stunts pulled by P.T. Barnum staged in previous decades past......

thus, he began planting stories, demanding the NATIONAL ENQUIRER to identify him as being "mysterious" and "weird"....he did the same thing with PEOPLE Magazine late 86, and the issue of the month BAD was set to release....

he sold pictures to the NATIONAL ENQUIRER for half a million dollars a crack.......that picture of him in the hyperbaric chamber, he made a cool half mill from that......

the public was still there for him until they saw the premiere of that BAD video which aired prime time during August of 1987, when the album was officially released....

before the release, I JUST CAN'T STOP LOVIN YOU was #1 on the charts.....

he's the source of the dissension and ridicule that originated, then it took a life of its own and that's when the madness went into overdrive, and nobody had any answers as to how to stem the tide.......

the superficial image MJ created, projected and attempted to convince the world was true is the real source of the problems that inflicted him and his life after THRILLER

in the process of all that began to transpire, MJ became the greatest media manipulator alive, of all time, so much so, the focus on the music became an afterthought when none of this stuff had to be........

when he went from being MICHAEL JACKSON to the KING OF POP, that's when that helium from that ballon started to vanish like the wind itself.....

all he had to do was do what he was doing up until that point and everything would have been as smooth as silk

I think the problem is, the current followers of MJ who didn't experience the real magic from 1979-1985 don't really understand how respected and admired he was during those years because all the stuff that has occured afterwards............

[Edited 8/30/14 15:24pm]

[Edited 8/30/14 15:27pm]

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

I love your threads Motown!

Michael did not fall from grace but he fell out of the media and industry good graces. All of his albums have sold more than 10 million copies world wide including Invincible (currently certified at 10 million world wide). So the public still loved him despite all the bad press. If we look at his past sold out tours and the number of fans in attendance, it shows that he was still very popular/marketable. Hell, This is It 2009, he sold out 50 shows in ONE ARENA venue at the age of 50 with two accusations, countless tabloid junkie madness, and not to mention it had been over 10 years since he toured!...but still sold out. NO ONE could do that but Michael Jackson. If it had been a different singer with a different type of talent that received Michael's harsh media treatment they would have been done by 87' let alone the first accusation.

However,

I think Michael fell out of the media's good graces after 1984. After Thriller, the media no longer depicted him as "the boy next door shy super star that everybody loved". I would say he fell out of the media's good graces because they conspired to tarnish his image and make him a negative target for ridicule. They made him the "crack of the jokes" and the target to throw tomatoes at for the hell of it. His music contributions and talent were after thoughts and its sad because it should not have to take the death of someone for people to treat them with respect or like a real person.

*********

If I had to choose someone who had a big fall from grace, Janet is the first to come to mind. She rivaled her superstar brother in certain capacities and proved to be a true star in her own terms. She was the media darling and the media loved her as well as everybody. She is one of the biggest selling artists of all time but currently can't sell out an Arena or Stadium. The music industry treats her like she never existed and blacklisted her when the SB crap went down. She still has not recovered from it. She will always be an Icon but its almost as if her impact and legacy never existed. Her own industry peers don't even show her the respect she deserves for her contributions.

MJ was still the most revered artists of the planet beyond 1984 because he and Lionel Richie co-wrote WE ARE THE WORLD during the beginning of 1985, recording during the time that year's Grammy Awards took place

MJ received so much respect in 1985, WE ARE THE WORLD was played on every single major radio station in the country simultaneously.......at the same time, the country played the same song.......along with that, there was like a WE ARE THE WORLD day where people from the very west coast of the country to the very east coast held hands showing unity.......that's 3 thousand miles of people joining hands.......THAT'S RESPECT.....

and up until 1986, he still received the respect because he won yet another Grammy for the pinning of the song.......

it was all there....all he had to do was continue the path that was set out for him, which was predicated on his immense gift for song and dance.....

during the later stage of 1986, this is when the tide began to turn w/in the ranks of the establishment because MJ began presenting his life and career as "the biggest show on earth", all based on stunts pulled by P.T. Barnum staged in previous decades past......

thus, he began planting stories, demanding the NATIONAL ENQUIRER to identify him as being "mysterious" and "weird"....he did the same thing with PEOPLE Magazine late 86, and the issue of the month BAD was set to release....

he sold pictures to the NATIONAL ENQUIRER for half a million dollars a crack.......that picture of him in the hyperbaric chamber, he made a cool half mill from that......

he's the source of the dissension and ridicule that originated, then it took a life of its own and that's when the madness went into overdrive, and nobody had any answers as to how to stem the tide.......

the superficial image MJ created, projected and attempted to convince the world was true is the real source of the problems that inflicted him and his life after THRILLER

in the process of all that began to transpire, MJ became the greatest media manipulator alive, of all time, so much so, the focus on the music became an afterthought when none of this stuff had to be........

when he went from being MICHAEL JACKSON to the KING OF POP, that's when that helium from that ballon started to vanish like the wind itself.....

all he had to do was do what he was doing up until that point and everything would have been as smooth as silk

I think the problem is, the current followers of MJ who didn't experience the real magic from 1979-1985 don't really understand how respected and admired he was during those years because all the stuff that has occured afterwards............

[Edited 8/30/14 15:24pm]

1986-The year MJ officially cracked.The year his appearance was drastically altered.

Good website called the "MJ archives" scan through the stories of 1986.The year he went off the rails.Those stories being planted in national enquirer were set up by MJ and his manager.

In other words:This guy was freaking fascinating.I love it.

mjscarousal said:

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

I love your threads Motown!

Michael did not fall from grace but he fell out of the media and industry good graces. All of his albums have sold more than 10 million copies world wide including Invincible (currently certified at 10 million world wide). So the public still loved him despite all the bad press. If we look at his past sold out tours and the number of fans in attendance, it shows that he was still very popular/marketable. Hell, This is It 2009, he sold out 50 shows in ONE ARENA venue at the age of 50 with two accusations, countless tabloid junkie madness, and not to mention it had been over 10 years since he toured!...but still sold out. NO ONE could do that but Michael Jackson. If it had been a different singer with a different type of talent that received Michael's harsh media treatment they would have been done by 87' let alone the first accusation.

However,

I think Michael fell out of the media's good graces after 1984. After Thriller, the media no longer depicted him as "the boy next door shy super star that everybody loved". I would say he fell out of the media's good graces because they conspired to tarnish his image and make him a negative target for ridicule. They made him the "crack of the jokes" and the target to throw tomatoes at for the hell of it. His music contributions and talent were after thoughts and its sad because it should not have to take the death of someone for people to treat them with respect or like a real person.

*********

If I had to choose someone who had a big fall from grace, Janet is the first to come to mind. She rivaled her superstar brother in certain capacities and proved to be a true star in her own terms. She was the media darling and the media loved her as well as everybody. She is one of the biggest selling artists of all time but currently can't sell out an Arena or Stadium. The music industry treats her like she never existed and blacklisted her when the SB crap went down. She still has not recovered from it. She will always be an Icon but its almost as if her impact and legacy never existed. Her own industry peers don't even show her the respect she deserves for her contributions.

MJ was still the most revered artists of the planet beyond 1984 because he and Lionel Richie co-wrote WE ARE THE WORLD during the beginning of 1985, recording during the time that year's Grammy Awards took place

MJ received so much respect in 1985, WE ARE THE WORLD was played on every single major radio station in the country simultaneously.......at the same time, the country played the same song.......along with that, there was like a WE ARE THE WORLD day where people from the very west coast of the country to the very east coast held hands showing unity.......that's 3 thousand miles of people joining hands.......THAT'S RESPECT.....

and up until 1986, he still received the respect because he won yet another Grammy for the pinning of the song.......

it was all there....all he had to do was continue the path that was set out for him, which was predicated on his immense gift for song and dance.....

during the later stage of 1986, this is when the tide began to turn w/in the ranks of the establishment because MJ began presenting his life and career as "the biggest show on earth", all based on stunts pulled by P.T. Barnum staged in previous decades past......

thus, he began planting stories, demanding the NATIONAL ENQUIRER to identify him as being "mysterious" and "weird"....he did the same thing with PEOPLE Magazine late 86, and the issue of the month BAD was set to release....

he sold pictures to the NATIONAL ENQUIRER for half a million dollars a crack.......that picture of him in the hyperbaric chamber, he made a cool half mill from that......

the public was still there for him until they saw the premiere of that BAD video which aired prime time during August of 1987, when the album was officially released....

before the release, I JUST CAN'T STOP LOVIN YOU was #1 on the charts.....

he's the source of the dissension and ridicule that originated, then it took a life of its own and that's when the madness went into overdrive, and nobody had any answers as to how to stem the tide.......

the superficial image MJ created, projected and attempted to convince the world was true is the real source of the problems that inflicted him and his life after THRILLER

in the process of all that began to transpire, MJ became the greatest media manipulator alive, of all time, so much so, the focus on the music became an afterthought when none of this stuff had to be........

when he went from being MICHAEL JACKSON to the KING OF POP, that's when that helium from that ballon started to vanish like the wind itself.....

all he had to do was do what he was doing up until that point and everything would have been as smooth as silk

I think the problem is, the current followers of MJ who didn't experience the real magic from 1979-1985 don't really understand how respected and admired he was during those years because all the stuff that has occured afterwards............

[Edited 8/30/14 15:24pm]

[Edited 8/30/14 15:27pm]

Scorp I know that... I was speaking in terms of the media and the way the media depicted him after the Thriller era. Maybe I should be specific, but I was referring to the BAD era.

I know MJ planted those stories. However, it still does not justfy the way the media treated him or means he deserved the treatment he received. Even if he did not plant those stories, he received heavy criticism for his appearance during that era. I would even argue that his appearance received more criticism more than those other stories and then the tabloids just fueled more and more. Regardless, it still does not make it right the way they treated him. No one deserved the treatment MJ received.

mjscarousal said:

Scorp said:

MJ was still the most revered artists of the planet beyond 1984 because he and Lionel Richie co-wrote WE ARE THE WORLD during the beginning of 1985, recording during the time that year's Grammy Awards took place

MJ received so much respect in 1985, WE ARE THE WORLD was played on every single major radio station in the country simultaneously.......at the same time, the country played the same song.......along with that, there was like a WE ARE THE WORLD day where people from the very west coast of the country to the very east coast held hands showing unity.......that's 3 thousand miles of people joining hands.......THAT'S RESPECT.....

and up until 1986, he still received the respect because he won yet another Grammy for the pinning of the song.......

it was all there....all he had to do was continue the path that was set out for him, which was predicated on his immense gift for song and dance.....

during the later stage of 1986, this is when the tide began to turn w/in the ranks of the establishment because MJ began presenting his life and career as "the biggest show on earth", all based on stunts pulled by P.T. Barnum staged in previous decades past......

thus, he began planting stories, demanding the NATIONAL ENQUIRER to identify him as being "mysterious" and "weird"....he did the same thing with PEOPLE Magazine late 86, and the issue of the month BAD was set to release....

he sold pictures to the NATIONAL ENQUIRER for half a million dollars a crack.......that picture of him in the hyperbaric chamber, he made a cool half mill from that......

the public was still there for him until they saw the premiere of that BAD video which aired prime time during August of 1987, when the album was officially released....

before the release, I JUST CAN'T STOP LOVIN YOU was #1 on the charts.....

he's the source of the dissension and ridicule that originated, then it took a life of its own and that's when the madness went into overdrive, and nobody had any answers as to how to stem the tide.......

the superficial image MJ created, projected and attempted to convince the world was true is the real source of the problems that inflicted him and his life after THRILLER

in the process of all that began to transpire, MJ became the greatest media manipulator alive, of all time, so much so, the focus on the music became an afterthought when none of this stuff had to be........

when he went from being MICHAEL JACKSON to the KING OF POP, that's when that helium from that ballon started to vanish like the wind itself.....

all he had to do was do what he was doing up until that point and everything would have been as smooth as silk

I think the problem is, the current followers of MJ who didn't experience the real magic from 1979-1985 don't really understand how respected and admired he was during those years because all the stuff that has occured afterwards............

[Edited 8/30/14 15:24pm]

[Edited 8/30/14 15:27pm]

Scorp I know that... I was speaking in terms of the media and the way the media depicted him after the Thriller era. Maybe I should be specific, but I was referring to the BAD era.

I know MJ planted those stories. However, it still does not justfy the way the media treated him or means he deserved the treatment he received. Even if he did not plant those stories, he received heavy criticism for his appearance during that era. I would even argue that his appearance received more criticism more than those other stories and then the tabloids just fueled more and more. Regardless, it still does not make it right the way they treated him. No one deserved the treatment MJ received.

it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle when u craked open the bottom to begin with

that's the story of MJ...post-Thriller....

if he would have stayed himself, for the plastic surgery was a huge reason why his rapport w/the meda, the public waned..that's just fact...there's no way getting around that because he kept undergoing more surgeries AFTER the 80s ended, after BAD

if he would have stayed himself, not asking him to be perfect, but just himself

the media would not have been able to get him, it would have been impossible

u are right, it got to the point where the media, commercial media should have called for discernment of what was going on with MJ rather than crucifying him left and right......that is very true

but if MJ would have stayed himself...he never would have felt the need to pin songs such as LEAVE ME ALONE, SCREAM, THEY DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT US, STRANGER IN MOSCOW, TABLOID JUNKIE.......

those songs only serve to intensify the wedge between the media and MJ

by the time HISTORY ran thru 1997, MJ gave every indication he had 2nd thoughts on embracing the full scale pop concept, his lyrics would highlight that time and time again in those songs

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

Scorp I know that... I was speaking in terms of the media and the way the media depicted him after the Thriller era. Maybe I should be specific, but I was referring to the BAD era.

I know MJ planted those stories. However, it still does not justfy the way the media treated him or means he deserved the treatment he received. Even if he did not plant those stories, he received heavy criticism for his appearance during that era. I would even argue that his appearance received more criticism more than those other stories and then the tabloids just fueled more and more. Regardless, it still does not make it right the way they treated him. No one deserved the treatment MJ received.

it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle when u craked open the bottom to begin with

that's the story of MJ...post-Thriller....

if he would have stayed himself, for the plastic surgery was a huge reason why his rapport w/the meda, the public waned..that's just fact...there's no way getting around that because he kept undergoing more surgeries AFTER the 80s ended, after BAD

if he would have stayed himself, not asking him to be perfect, but just himself

the media would not have been able to get him, it would have been impossible

u are right, it got to the point where the media, commercial media should have called for discernment of what was going on with MJ rather than crucifying him left and right......that is very true

but if MJ would have stayed himself...he never would have felt the need to pin songs such as LEAVE ME ALONE, SCREAM, THEY DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT US, STRANGER IN MOSCOW, TABLOID JUNKIE.......

those songs only serve to intensify the wedge between the media and MJ

by the time HISTORY ran thru 1997, MJ gave every indication he had 2nd thoughts on embracing the full scale pop concept, his lyrics would highlight that time and time again in those songs

You can't necessarily say the public because he continued to sell out tours and records world wide after BAD. I think people had their opinions about his appearance but it did not stop them from going to his concerts or buying his records.

Michael had self esteem issues and insecurities about his appearance. It is easy for us to say what he should or should not have done especially since we were not child stars that grew up in the spotlight. I think that along with his childhood trauma experiences really affected him as an adult. Also, Michael had medical problems that affected his appearance so it wasn't all his own doing with his changing apperance that is often inaccurately said.

mjscarousal said:

Scorp said:

it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle when u craked open the bottom to begin with

that's the story of MJ...post-Thriller....

if he would have stayed himself, for the plastic surgery was a huge reason why his rapport w/the meda, the public waned..that's just fact...there's no way getting around that because he kept undergoing more surgeries AFTER the 80s ended, after BAD

if he would have stayed himself, not asking him to be perfect, but just himself

the media would not have been able to get him, it would have been impossible

u are right, it got to the point where the media, commercial media should have called for discernment of what was going on with MJ rather than crucifying him left and right......that is very true

but if MJ would have stayed himself...he never would have felt the need to pin songs such as LEAVE ME ALONE, SCREAM, THEY DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT US, STRANGER IN MOSCOW, TABLOID JUNKIE.......

those songs only serve to intensify the wedge between the media and MJ

by the time HISTORY ran thru 1997, MJ gave every indication he had 2nd thoughts on embracing the full scale pop concept, his lyrics would highlight that time and time again in those songs

You can't necessarily say the public because he continued to sell out tours and records world wide after BAD. I think people had their opinions about his appearance but it did not stop them from going to his concerts or buying his records.

Michael had self esteem issues and insecurities about his appearance. It is easy for us to say what he should or should not have done especially since we were not child stars that grew up in the spotlight. I think that along with his childhood trauma experiences really affected him as an adult. Also, Michael had medical problems that affected his appearance so it wasn't all his own doing with his changing apperance that is often inaccurately said.

yes, he had world tours that drew record attendance, but it happened at the expense of everything else that made him great......

while the hysteria overseas was taking place, there was an undercurrent that never wavored at the same time

by 1989, he had lost half his fanbase, that's why he never toured on the United States mainland ever again and focused exclusively on international prominence for he knew it would be easier to project his superficial image in the company of......

he knew that......

MotownSubdivision said:

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Lady Gaga yet. Here's someone who burst onto the music scene out of nowhere back in 2009 and became the hottest act in mainstream music seemingly overnight, becoming a household name (or so I believew in 2010 and a force to be reckoned with for most of 2011. Then in 2012 there's hardly so much as an utterance of her name until late 2013 where "ARTPOP" dropped to mixed reviews and chirping crickets. I dare say LG was/ is perhaps the biggest star we've had in the past 5 years when she hit the scene and was looking to be one of the defining artists of the 2010s until all her hype fizzled out almost as quickly as it came. I'm not a fan but honestly, it's kinda disappointing how she's fallen off for the past 2 years. That said, her jazz album with Tony Bennett sounds great so far. Looking forward to its release.

Very good points. I recall before that album came out the critics were already insisting she was over and calling her a gimmick. Its amazing how the media turns on these stars. One minute you are a sensation and the next minute you are a gimmick. Now the media just trashes her now. I am not her fan but she seems like a singer who has it in her to be more artistic than what she lets on. She should stop trying to be Madonna and just be herself. You can't try to outdo an artist who has done it all already and was doing it before you were born. She should just focus on being artistic and stop chasing after Top 40.

Scorp said:

mjscarousal said:

You can't necessarily say the public because he continued to sell out tours and records world wide after BAD. I think people had their opinions about his appearance but it did not stop them from going to his concerts or buying his records.

Michael had self esteem issues and insecurities about his appearance. It is easy for us to say what he should or should not have done especially since we were not child stars that grew up in the spotlight. I think that along with his childhood trauma experiences really affected him as an adult. Also, Michael had medical problems that affected his appearance so it wasn't all his own doing with his changing apperance that is often inaccurately said.

yes, he had world tours that drew record attendance, but it happened at the expense of everything else that made him great......

while the hysteria overseas was taking place, there was an undercurrent that never wavored at the same time

by 1989, he had lost half his fanbase, that's why he never toured on the United States mainland ever again and focused exclusively on international prominence for he knew it would be easier to project his superficial image in the company of......

he knew that......

In the company of...what?

sigh

Scorp I know you have your opinions but I disagre. I think Michael focused on building his international fanbase, had UK singles and videos that were released in the UK exclusively that he was promoting as well. Michael could have easily sold out a stadium in America, trust and believe that. This statement is absurd. The UK media was not as harsh on Michael as the American media so it makes sense that Michael would want to tour in a location where he feels more respected.

If Michael had lost his American fans, why was he able to sell out stadiums in America during BAD despite the bad American media? Why was BAD one of the best selling tours in the 80's if he had lost half his fans?