musicman said:

I don't think the album itself is bad. Most of the hip-hop she did on it worked. The problem is bad management. Her whole team failed her. The first week the album wasn't even in the weekly store fliers, and it wasn't even a good sale price.

Then they picked all the wrong singles, except "#Beautiful," but that came out last year. Who thought "Thirsty" should have been the next single? There are better songs on the cd. "Make It Look Good" or "You Don't Know What To Do" could have easily been singles.

Then the NBC special she did last week was on a Saturday night, when most folks are not watching.

I was sure after the promotion of Memoirs of An Imperfect Angle was messed up, she would have been done with Def Jam. Then she had the American Idol fiasco.

She needs to regroup quickly and come up with-at least- a two year plan for the future because the old model of how she's doing things isn't working. I know she already has a legacy and money, but at least keep the career in tack. I don't know who told her to make Jermaine Dupri her manager. Anyone with no management background could have seen that was a mistake from the jump.

[Edited 6/8/14 11:25am]

Don't forget that fiasco with the World Music Awards. It seems like it's not going to air at all. I watched her special and wondered why it was on a Sat. night. I think the issue is that R&B has been taken over by hip-hop and pop music. Her problem is that she doesn't quite fit in certain genres anymore.

If she had better promo and management, let's say she'd have debuted with ~100k. That wouldn't have made the album less of a flop because radio is not touching singles by a 45 year old woman. Why is it hard to accept that she is over in terms of commercial performance? I don't see the point of making excuses, nor is it a reasonable expectation for her to rebound with the next album. Fans should just hope she does not take the Janet route and semi-retire, but hopefully she continues making music for the fans. If the likes of Cyndi Lauper, Alanis Morissette or Jewel can afford to make albums every couple of years long after their commercial peak, Mariah Carey surely can as well!

LiveToTell86 said:

If she had better promo and management, let's say she'd have debuted with ~100k. That wouldn't have made the album less of a flop because radio is not touching singles by a 45 year old woman. Why is it hard to accept that she is over in terms of commercial performance? I don't see the point of making excuses, nor is it a reasonable expectation for her to rebound with the next album. Fans should just hope she does not take the Janet route and semi-retire, but hopefully she continues making music for the fans. If the likes of Cyndi Lauper, Alanis Morissette or Jewel can afford to make albums every couple of years long after their commercial peak, Mariah Carey surely can as well!

I know it's not all about the album sales and she is in her 40s. But just from a business standppoint, she still has bad management. She still has a career- after the album sales. But, in any business, you don't want your projects to keep getting botched up. At a certain point she needs to look at a new team. It's not like she's going to retire tomorrow, so I say get on the ball and drop the dead weight.

^Yeah I don't disagree on her having a bad management team, just that in the grand scheme of things I'm not sure if it matters anymore. I'm pretty sure Mariah is to be blamed at least partly for the continuous delays, just like how Lady Gaga herself is responsible for what happened with her last album, there is only so much promo and management can do if the public is no longer there for the artist.

SeventeenDayze said:

musicman said:

I don't think the album itself is bad. Most of the hip-hop she did on it worked. The problem is bad management. Her whole team failed her. The first week the album wasn't even in the weekly store fliers, and it wasn't even a good sale price.

Then they picked all the wrong singles, except "#Beautiful," but that came out last year. Who thought "Thirsty" should have been the next single? There are better songs on the cd. "Make It Look Good" or "You Don't Know What To Do" could have easily been singles.

Then the NBC special she did last week was on a Saturday night, when most folks are not watching.

I was sure after the promotion of Memoirs of An Imperfect Angle was messed up, she would have been done with Def Jam. Then she had the American Idol fiasco.

She needs to regroup quickly and come up with-at least- a two year plan for the future because the old model of how she's doing things isn't working. I know she already has a legacy and money, but at least keep the career in tack. I don't know who told her to make Jermaine Dupri her manager. Anyone with no management background could have seen that was a mistake from the jump.

[Edited 6/8/14 11:25am]

Don't forget that fiasco with the World Music Awards. It seems like it's not going to air at all. I watched her special and wondered why it was on a Sat. night. I think the issue is that R&B has been taken over by hip-hop and pop music. Her problem is that she doesn't quite fit in certain genres anymore.

I didn't hear about the World Music Awards fiasco. What happened?

LiveToTell86 said:

^Yeah I don't disagree on her having a bad management team, just that in the grand scheme of things I'm not sure if it matters anymore. I'm pretty sure Mariah is to be blamed at least partly for the continuous delays, just like how Lady Gaga herself is responsible for what happened with her last album, there is only so much promo and management can do if the public is no longer there for the artist.

Well it is true. She has to be resposible for her own career.

musicman said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Don't forget that fiasco with the World Music Awards. It seems like it's not going to air at all. I watched her special and wondered why it was on a Sat. night. I think the issue is that R&B has been taken over by hip-hop and pop music. Her problem is that she doesn't quite fit in certain genres anymore.

I didn't hear about the World Music Awards fiasco. What happened?

There were a host of problems with the awards show. As such, it never aired in the U.S. (or anywhere else for that matter). Check out the link below:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/world-music-awards-treble-article-1.1816074

never liked her,

and it makes me wonder... why on earth does this thread about Mariah Carey have more than 10,000 views...

thedance said:

never liked her,

and it makes me wonder... why on earth does this thread about Mariah Carey have more than 10,000 views...

Just a typical day on the Org

Lets face it and we have heard it here a zillion times there is NOWHERE for her anymore, she has to accept that first before anything can change. What is she trying to do with this new album? What was she doing with the last few? lets face it if i take away MIMI which was a LUCKY break for her at that time, she was sliding and sliding and losing her audience ALL OVER the world. I mean we all know to stay relevant in most countries you have to tour, that is a major part of the game, whether you are an interesting performer or not, the MIMI tour was a big thing with a big record for her, and she had not had that till then, since BUTTERFLY and she toured worldwide. So i dont really know what to say but this was a poorly marketed record, i mean she was saying things like "im going to do a Beyonce?" what the hell does that mean? If she means secretly drop a c, she blew it with announcing it, ALSO she does not have a team like Beyonce has, or a street team like she does either. AND beyonce had videos for every song, Mariah has one. So saying what she said was like saying her song with Miguel was a number one smash or even a HIT which is wasnt anywhere.

SeventeenDayze said:

musicman said:

I didn't hear about the World Music Awards fiasco. What happened?

There were a host of problems with the awards show. As such, it never aired in the U.S. (or anywhere else for that matter). Check out the link below:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/world-music-awards-treble-article-1.1816074

oh wow! That was crazy!

thedance said:

never liked her,

and it makes me wonder... why on earth does this thread about Mariah Carey have more than 10,000 views...

Because she's relevant

musicman said:

SeventeenDayze said:

There were a host of problems with the awards show. As such, it never aired in the U.S. (or anywhere else for that matter). Check out the link below:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/world-music-awards-treble-article-1.1816074

oh wow! That was crazy!

Strange isn't it? I think that Mariah is kind of in a strange place. She kinda does the same things over and over again. Of course, she's not the only artist who gets stuck in a rut, but it seems like she's at a creative fork in the road. Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that Nick Cannon's career is pretty solid and even moreso since he married her? Seems like things for her are on the skids at the moment. I haven't heard the whole album so I can't comment on her new stuff just yet.

interesting take on her new album by Roger Friedman (a huge supporter of her)

Mariah Carey’s “Me I am Mariah” got the best reviews for the singer in about ten years. But sales have not immediately translated. Carey came in at number 3 this week with around 56,000 copies sold. That’s over 100,000 less than her last studio release did in its debut week.

Who’d ever a-thunk it? Mariah as the Underdog. I’m rooting for her.

im hearing alot of fans saying the album is actually good, well isnt thats whats important? i have alot of music in my collection that i have no idea how much it sold. im not mariah fan but it confuses me when fans are more concerned with sales than with the quality of the music.

lowkey said:

im hearing alot of fans saying the album is actually good, well isnt thats whats important? i have alot of music in my collection that i have no idea how much it sold. im not mariah fan but it confuses me when fans are more concerned with sales than with the quality of the music.

Same here.

purplethunder3121 said:

lowkey said:

im hearing alot of fans saying the album is actually good, well isnt thats whats important? i have alot of music in my collection that i have no idea how much it sold. im not mariah fan but it confuses me when fans are more concerned with sales than with the quality of the music.

Same here.

That should be the standard by which she should be judged, but when so much of your professional persona is based on the premise of having a near record amount of number one songs and multiplatinum albums, it will be hard to shake it off. (No pun intended. ) It's hard for a lot of artists, male or female, to stay relevant past their 40th birthday, but it seems to be especially harsh on female artists. Even Madonna has struggled to get on the charts since her Music album, though she still sells out her tours. And the fact that Cher had a number one single on the Billbord Hot 100 with "Believe" at the age of 53 was a complete anomaly. It would be easier for Mariah to transition out if she would quit worrying about trying to get that next number one single and just put out some music that she wanted to experiment with.

lowkey said:

im hearing alot of fans saying the album is actually good, well isnt thats whats important? i have alot of music in my collection that i have no idea how much it sold. im not mariah fan but it confuses me when fans are more concerned with sales than with the quality of the music.

the thing is...Mariah's camp is always bragging about her record sales....in some cases,they inflate and exaggerrate her sales.So,when she flops,there are alot of people waiting around to gloat,lol.

728huey said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Same here.

That should be the standard by which she should be judged, but when so much of your professional persona is based on the premise of having a near record amount of number one songs and multiplatinum albums, it will be hard to shake it off. (No pun intended. ) It's hard for a lot of artists, male or female, to stay relevant past their 40th birthday, but it seems to be especially harsh on female artists. Even Madonna has struggled to get on the charts since her Music album, though she still sells out her tours. And the fact that Cher had a number one single on the Billbord Hot 100 with "Believe" at the age of 53 was a complete anomaly. It would be easier for Mariah to transition out if she would quit worrying about trying to get that next number one single and just put out some music that she wanted to experiment with.

This is another reason why I love Mary J. Blige so much. She, like Mariah, started in the early 90s and has found ways to change her style from time to time but she somehow remains the same. Erykah Badu and Kendrick Lamar's single last year was fire! I think Mariah tries too hard sometimes but she's still got it, she just needs to hone in on what makes her special.

[Edited 6/8/14 22:21pm]

SoulAlive said:

lowkey said:

im hearing alot of fans saying the album is actually good, well isnt thats whats important? i have alot of music in my collection that i have no idea how much it sold. im not mariah fan but it confuses me when fans are more concerned with sales than with the quality of the music.

the thing is...Mariah's camp is always bragging about her record sales....in some cases,they inflate and exaggerrate her sales.So,when she flops,there are alot of people waiting around to gloat,lol.

i had this very conversation with mariah fans on another site, they were all excusing her low numbers and talking about her legacy is set, i mentioned to them that her legacy is actually her sales and hits, thats all i ever hear mentioned when it comes to mariah.of course fanbases of all the big pop artists like to bring up their stats but thats like the only thing mariah is celebrated for.ive never ever heard people talk about what her music has meant to them, or a great concert experiance or anything not related to her commercial success.this is the first time im hearing people talking about the music, i guess since its not a big seller with #1 singles and the top airplay blah blah blah, they are forced to just listen to the music.

lowkey said:

SoulAlive said:

the thing is...Mariah's camp is always bragging about her record sales....in some cases,they inflate and exaggerrate her sales.So,when she flops,there are alot of people waiting around to gloat,lol.

i had this very conversation with mariah fans on another site, they were all excusing her low numbers and talking about her legacy is set, i mentioned to them that her legacy is actually her sales and hits, thats all i ever hear mentioned when it comes to mariah.of course fanbases of all the big pop artists like to bring up their stats but thats like the only thing mariah is celebrated for.ive never ever heard people talk about what her music has meant to them, or a great concert experiance or anything not related to her commercial success.this is the first time im hearing people talking about the music, i guess since its not a big seller with #1 singles and the top airplay blah blah blah, they are forced to just listen to the music.

I hear it often from the hard-core fans who prefer her earlier work. I, for one, can say many of her songs, particularly from "Emotions" and "Musicbox", helped me get thru some very difficult times in my life. I will always love her for that very reason.

kitbradley said:

lowkey said:

i had this very conversation with mariah fans on another site, they were all excusing her low numbers and talking about her legacy is set, i mentioned to them that her legacy is actually her sales and hits, thats all i ever hear mentioned when it comes to mariah.of course fanbases of all the big pop artists like to bring up their stats but thats like the only thing mariah is celebrated for.ive never ever heard people talk about what her music has meant to them, or a great concert experiance or anything not related to her commercial success.this is the first time im hearing people talking about the music, i guess since its not a big seller with #1 singles and the top airplay blah blah blah, they are forced to just listen to the music.

I hear it often from the hard-core fans who prefer her earlier work. I, for one, can say many of her songs, particularly from "Emotions" and "Musicbox", helped me get thru some very difficult times in my life. I will always love her for that very reason.

I still think she's got a lot left in her, but, as someone said here in the thread, she needs better management. Her talent isn't the issue but it's more about her trying to navigate the music industry that seems bent on having all these different genres mesh together.

I agree with the person who said that she needs a whole new team.Her current team totally screwed up the promotion of this album.In its second week,her album slips from #3 to #16,with less than 12k copies sold.I know it's hard to sell records these days,but that's pretty bad.

SoulAlive said:

I agree with the person who said that she needs a whole new team.Her current team totally screwed up the promotion of this album.In its second week,her album slips from #3 to #16,with less than 12k copies sold.I know it's hard to sell records these days,but that's pretty bad.

You know, I wonder if it's a situation where Mariah is perhaps being stubborn. How much does she set herself up for failure? It's really hard to gauge if this is mostly management being bad or her being stubborn. God forbid it's both

SeventeenDayze said:

SoulAlive said:

I agree with the person who said that she needs a whole new team.Her current team totally screwed up the promotion of this album.In its second week,her album slips from #3 to #16,with less than 12k copies sold.I know it's hard to sell records these days,but that's pretty bad.

You know, I wonder if it's a situation where Mariah is perhaps being stubborn. How much does she set herself up for failure? It's really hard to gauge if this is mostly management being bad or her being stubborn. God forbid it's both

-

Jermaine Dupri is not fit to manage her. He may have great history with her but producing hit songs and managing are two very different things.

Musicslave said:

SeventeenDayze said:

You know, I wonder if it's a situation where Mariah is perhaps being stubborn. How much does she set herself up for failure? It's really hard to gauge if this is mostly management being bad or her being stubborn. God forbid it's both

-

Jermaine Dupri is not fit to manage her. He may have great history with her but producing hit songs and managing are two very different things.

For some reason, I thought she was managed by someone else. But, you're right, it sounds like JD can produce well but maybe he's not as savvy when it comes to the other aspects of the music industry.

Here are my two cents on Mariah Carey.

First things first: She needs to get rid of Jermaine Dupri as her manager. He could barely manage So So Def so what makes him thinks he can manage anyone's career? JD is an artist, not a manager.

Second, put some damn clothes on! Nothing wrong with showing some skin every now and then but MC has gone overboard. I don't have a problem at all with any artist showing some cleavage here and there but Mariah's overuse of her body image to sell her music is ridiculous. It's like she's trying to compensate for not being able to hit those high notes like she used to. Third, I need for Mariah to sing some music in her age range. All these poop-butt songs that she's singing is so beneath her. I don't need for Mariah to think she needs to compete with whatever the flavor-of-the-month is to stoop to that level of musicianship. At this point, Mariah should be singing at Radio City Music Hall or Carnegie Hall with a full symphony while wearing an elegant dress. Not on some awards show shaking her ass like she's a 20-year-old! Last, I need her to seriously get rid of Jermaine Dupri. This dude hasn't been relevant since her Mimi album and even that's pushing it. There has got to be somebody that can produce a high-caliber album for someone of her status.

[Edited 6/10/14 9:54am]

thesoulbrother said:

Here are my two cents on Mariah Carey.

First things first: She needs to get rid of Jermaine Dupri as her manager. He could barely manage So So Def so what makes him thinks he can manage anyone's career? JD is an artist, not a manager.

Second, put some damn clothes on! Nothing wrong with showing some skin every now and then but MC has gone overboard. I don't have a problem at all with any artist showing some cleavage here and there but Mariah's overuse of her body image to sell her music is ridiculous. It's like she's trying to compensate for not being able to hit those high notes like she used to. Third, I need for Mariah to sing some music in her age range. All these poop-butt songs that she's singing is so beneath her. I don't need for Mariah to think she needs to compete with whatever the flavor-of-the-month is to stoop to that level of musicianship. At this point, Mariah should be singing at Radio City Music Hall or Carnegie Hall with a full symphony while wearing an elegant dress. Not on some awards show shaking her ass like she's a 20-year-old! Last, I need her to seriously get rid of Jermaine Dupri. This dude hasn't been relevant since her Mimi album and even that's pushing it. There has got to be somebody that can produce a high-caliber album for someone of her status.

[Edited 6/10/14 9:54am]

This just about sums it up right here!

thesoulbrother said:

Third, I need for Mariah to sing some music in her age range. All these poop-butt songs that she's singing is so beneath her. I don't need for Mariah to think she needs to compete with whatever the flavor-of-the-month is to stoop to that level of musicianship.

Okay HERE'S THE THING!! She actually has the "elegant dress and orchestra" music on this CD, but no one is listening to it! Even when she does exactly what you are asking, you don't support it.

As for her other songs.. "poop-butt songs" that are "beneath her" - she's actually still writing everything herself as she ALWAYS HAS. So...

If you found her work more mature before, that stuff is there, otherwise, she is writing fun songs like she always did.

Do you want songs about raising children? What are you looking for?