MickyDolenz said:

Timmy84 said:

Jermaine and Jackie had mad beef during this period... so that's not surprising. Wasn't Victory supposed to be another album with the Jackie-Tito-Marlon-Michael-Randy lineup and it changed sometime after October 1983?

I don't know the dates, but yeah, it was the same quintet that had been at Epic. I'm not sure how Jermaine became involved. Jermaine had asked Mike to sing on Rockwell's song. Mike also sang on Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' from Jermaine's solo record. I guess this is around the same time period.

okay, i stand corrected about jermaine being on arista after the victory tour, which i guess makes sense since now i recall he was working with whitney. still, there is no question that jermaine saw an opening to rejoin the group for his benefit, both in terms of money and a higher profile. i stand by my recollection that jermaine's career was in the doldrums next to his brothers, 'let's get serious' notwithstanding. i think jermaine became involved in the victory album and tour as part of an overall strategy to re-involve him in the group. don't think that katherine and joe were sitting by on the sidelines in this; they were front and center. jermaine's place in the group was as second lead, so it would follow that he would be put back in that place, regardless of what jackie thought.

kibbles said:

MickyDolenz said:

I don't know the dates, but yeah, it was the same quintet that had been at Epic. I'm not sure how Jermaine became involved. Jermaine had asked Mike to sing on Rockwell's song. Mike also sang on Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' from Jermaine's solo record. I guess this is around the same time period.

okay, i stand corrected about jermaine being on arista after the victory tour, which i guess makes sense since now i recall he was working with whitney. still, there is no question that jermaine saw an opening to rejoin the group for his benefit, both in terms of money and a higher profile. i stand by my recollection that jermaine's career was in the doldrums next to his brothers, 'let's get serious' notwithstanding. i think jermaine became involved in the victory album and tour as part of an overall strategy to re-involve him in the group. don't think that katherine and joe were sitting by on the sidelines in this; they were front and center. jermaine's place in the group was as second lead, so it would follow that he would be put back in that place, regardless of what jackie thought.

But all of the brothers had a lead, and Jermaine only had a lead as a duet. Randy is the only brother who had 2 solo leads on Victory, so in this case, he could be considered a 2nd lead. Mike had one, the other 2 were duets with Jermaine & Mick Jagger. If Jermaine's career was that cold, what was the incentive for Arista to sign him and put him with Whitney? The Jacksons as a group didn't really crossover. Look at Triumph compared to Off The Wall. Like Jermaine, they mostly recieved R&B airplay. But then again Triumph was released after pop radio was playing less R&B, which was considered disco.

[Edited 4/6/12 13:39pm]

"all the brothers?" BIG DISS TO RANDY.

MickyDolenz said:

kibbles said:

okay, i stand corrected about jermaine being on arista after the victory tour, which i guess makes sense since now i recall he was working with whitney. still, there is no question that jermaine saw an opening to rejoin the group for his benefit, both in terms of money and a higher profile. i stand by my recollection that jermaine's career was in the doldrums next to his brothers, 'let's get serious' notwithstanding. i think jermaine became involved in the victory album and tour as part of an overall strategy to re-involve him in the group. don't think that katherine and joe were sitting by on the sidelines in this; they were front and center. jermaine's place in the group was as second lead, so it would follow that he would be put back in that place, regardless of what jackie thought.

But all of the brothers had a lead, and Jermaine only had a lead as a duet. Randy is the only brother who had 2 solo leads on Victory, so in this case, he could be considered a 2nd lead. Mike had one, the other 2 were duets with Jermaine & Mick Jagger. If Jermaine's career was that cold, what was the incentive for Arista to sign him and put him with Whitney? The Jacksons as a group didn't really crossover. Look at Triumph compared to Off The Wall. Like Jermaine, they mostly recieved R&B airplay. But then again Triumph was released after pop radio was playing less R&B, which was considered disco.

i can only speak to my recollection of events, as well as the kindness of whomever put up the chart of jermaine's work at his wiki page. as you can see, jermaine had a few fair to middling crossover hits, that seem to have done only slightly better on the rnb charts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ne_Jackson. yes, clive did take a chance on him after he left motown, but i don't believe it was because jermaine was a 'hot' talent. he and clive perhaps thought he could be more of a producer, given he had has some success with switch. my recollection is that jermaine's profile was raised with 'let's get serious', but in the few years after that, he had faded and the not so nice comparisons to mj began. that comparison reached a nadir with the victory tour b/c again, most were interpreting his suddenly high profile move with the group as opportunistic.

i would also disagree that the jacksons received mostly rnb attention. again, my recollection is that the j5 remained the crossover group that they had been out of the gate. they were on american bandstand just as much as soul train, on those daytime talk shows like dinah, on carson, etc. on their wiki page, references are made to several singles that were in the top twenty, a few just missing the top ten after they left motown. were they closer to the top 5 on the rnb charts, yes. but they weren't exactly failing on the pop charts, which is my recollection.

kibbles said:

MickyDolenz said:

But all of the brothers had a lead, and Jermaine only had a lead as a duet. Randy is the only brother who had 2 solo leads on Victory, so in this case, he could be considered a 2nd lead. Mike had one, the other 2 were duets with Jermaine & Mick Jagger. If Jermaine's career was that cold, what was the incentive for Arista to sign him and put him with Whitney? The Jacksons as a group didn't really crossover. Look at Triumph compared to Off The Wall. Like Jermaine, they mostly recieved R&B airplay. But then again Triumph was released after pop radio was playing less R&B, which was considered disco.

i can only speak to my recollection of events, as well as the kindness of whomever put up the chart of jermaine's work at his wiki page. as you can see, jermaine had a few fair to middling crossover hits, that seem to have done only slightly better on the rnb charts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ne_Jackson. yes, clive did take a chance on him after he left motown, but i don't believe it was because jermaine was a 'hot' talent. he and clive perhaps thought he could be more of a producer, given he had has some success with switch. my recollection is that jermaine's profile was raised with 'let's get serious', but in the few years after that, he had faded and the not so nice comparisons to mj began. that comparison reached a nadir with the victory tour b/c again, most were interpreting his suddenly high profile move with the group as opportunistic.

i would also disagree that the jacksons received mostly rnb attention. again, my recollection is that the j5 remained the crossover group that they had been out of the gate. they were on american bandstand just as much as soul train, on those daytime talk shows like dinah, on carson, etc. on their wiki page, references are made to several singles that were in the top twenty, a few just missing the top ten after they left motown. were they closer to the top 5 on the rnb charts, yes. but they weren't exactly failing on the pop charts, which is my recollection.

Appearing on talk shows doesn't neccesarily mean that an act will get lots of radio airplay. I've seen many acts on Carson, Leno, Letterman, Soul Train, American Bandstand, etc. that I've never seen or heard again. Chart positions doesn't always reflect popularity either. There's been songs that didn't chart very high but recieved a lot of radio play and are well known today (ie. Stairway To Heaven), and number ones that are forgotten.

THE JACKSONS UNITY TOUR
New Album Is the Cause
of Concert Cancellations

EXCLUSIVE

The Jacksons don't want to put the cart before the horse, so the group has cancelled their first two concerts because they've been busy recording their new album ... TMZ has learned.

The group announced this week they are canceling shows in Louisville and Cincinnati, which a rep for the band chalked up to "scheduling conflicts."

But a source close to the Jacksons tells TMZ the brothers (Jackie, Jermaine, Marlon and Tito) want to finish their studio album before they hit the road so they can perform the new tracks on tour.

We're told the Jacksons want to make up the missed dates, but nothing is planned so far.

The tour is scheduled to (probably) kick off on June 20 in Rama, ON, Canada.

^^I wonder who they're working with.

Unity tour...

That's one of the weirdest excuses you can give for why some tour dates were canceled. For real. And at the rate they're going, their "album" will be out by 2050 at the latest...

They need to stop.

babybugz said:

They need to stop.

Seriously Someone should let them know that,the people who are going to see them,couldn't care less about any "new" music.Just do a simple greatest hits tour and move on.

NaughtyKitty said:

THE JACKSONS UNITY TOUR
New Album Is the Cause
of Concert Cancellations

EXCLUSIVE

The Jacksons don't want to put the cart before the horse, so the group has cancelled their first two concerts because they've been busy recording their new album ... TMZ has learned.

The group announced this week they are canceling shows in Louisville and Cincinnati, which a rep for the band chalked up to "scheduling conflicts."

But a source close to the Jacksons tells TMZ the brothers (Jackie, Jermaine, Marlon and Tito) want to finish their studio album before they hit the road so they can perform the new tracks on tour.

We're told the Jacksons want to make up the missed dates, but nothing is planned so far.

The tour is scheduled to (probably) kick off on June 20 in Rama, ON, Canada.

I find this hard to believe.

Did they not sell out?

Azz said:

NaughtyKitty said:

THE JACKSONS UNITY TOUR
New Album Is the Cause
of Concert Cancellations

EXCLUSIVE

The Jacksons don't want to put the cart before the horse, so the group has cancelled their first two concerts because they've been busy recording their new album ... TMZ has learned.

The group announced this week they are canceling shows in Louisville and Cincinnati, which a rep for the band chalked up to "scheduling conflicts."

But a source close to the Jacksons tells TMZ the brothers (Jackie, Jermaine, Marlon and Tito) want to finish their studio album before they hit the road so they can perform the new tracks on tour.

We're told the Jacksons want to make up the missed dates, but nothing is planned so far.

The tour is scheduled to (probably) kick off on June 20 in Rama, ON, Canada.

I find this hard to believe.

Did they not sell out?

Only three dates and they're in casinos.

Layzie said:

who really wants to see them?

I would want too. If they would come by where I live I definitely would go see them.

Timmy84 said:

That's one of the weirdest excuses you can give for why some tour dates were canceled. For real. And at the rate they're going, their "album" will be out by 2050 at the latest...

yes. the cd has been long finished before the tour commences. they are only days away from their first show, leaving very little time for their potential audience to get to hear and know these "new songs", so what's the point of post-poning anything at this point? just keep the dates, and release the album when it's ready. if the audience likes what they hear at the concert, then they will buy it when it comes out.

but what am i saying? everybody knows the real reason why those dates were cancelled, and i would be very surprised if they truly have a cd coming out.

PatrickS77 said:

Layzie said:

who really wants to see them?

I would want too. If they would come by where I live I definitely would go see them.

I'm interested in the album, if one is released. Jermaine has just been doing Bollywood duets over the last few years.