Very true "Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack | |
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right.
This is the part that just boggles my mind. The whole reason that MJ went to a DOCTOR to get this "treatment" is because the doctor would know how to do it safely. Honestly I would not take the risk to do this. But if I was somehow compelled to do it I would do it as correctly as possible and as safe as possible.
MJ was rich enough to have a mini hospital set up in his house. With the proper staff. Angelina Jolie had a baby in a non hospital setting in Africa on the coast of Indian Ocean. I read how she and Bradd Pitt pretty much built a hospital for her delivery. So it can be done.
Why oh why did Murray be so damn CHEAP??? Nickle and diming the whole operation. If he had informed MJ that I will need this, and this, and this to do this treatment safely, MJ I am sure would have said.... "do whatever is needed". And then I think chances are good that MJ would not have died.
Why did Murray go so damn cheap that it was UNSAFE???? "Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack | |
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Hilarious! Great response. What a dumb ass (that OJ Simpson). | |
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I keep saying it. Money makes you do some crazy things. | |
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Ann Curry did an interview with Rebbie on the Today show... Here's the link:
http://today.msnbc.msn.co...rtainment/
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What are you talking about? EVERYBODY who has not studied medicine and is not a doctor themselves trusts their doctor. Of course, you may be informed about the risks and benefits, but even if the risks are zero, you still trust your doctor. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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You can tell Joe and Randy are incredibly sad with the veredict. With Conrad Murray considered guilty, there's no way the AEG lawsuit can continue. The millions they're worked on to achieve for 2 years, the thousands of plans they've executed in order to prepare ground for the lawsuit and the thousands of hours spent trying to create an argument in order to get those millions out of AEG have just gone into the bowells of hell.
Too bad Joe and Randy and company will now be getting NOTHING out of AEG. After two years creating an argument against AEG in order to get money off of them, they come out with the perspective of ending empty handed. They invented all kinds of arguments, every single day they executed a new plan to sue AEG and get millions off of them...but with Murray guilty (something they didn't want, since it's the obstacle to the lawsuit being successful), the AEG lawsuits and its coveted millions will now forever be burned.
The Jacksons' (or some of them) biggest nightmare has become a reality: Conrad Murray is considered guilty.
See, inventing Michael was a junkie (so they could create an argument against AEG and grab those millions) served for nothing.
Shall this cruel family be served justice. Murray's judgement day was today. After two years of the most vile and cruel campaign agianst an instituion and Michael (since he had to be thrown under the bus in order for AEG to be successfully sued) I've ever witnessed, this family shall taste their own venom.
Can you possibly imagine what Joe is thinking, right now? "Damn, I worked so hard to get Murray exonorated so I could successfuly sue AEG and get millions and he was convicted! Damn! I called the ATM machine, I think his name is Michael or something, all kinds of name, I successfuly made the world think he was a junkie and a monster so I could sue AEG and get money, but now...!".
What goes around, comes around. Eventually, all one's malicious actions will turn against one. Some of the Jacksons are incredibly mad at Murray being convicted: how are they gonna make money off of AEG now?! | |
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After two years, the Jacksons still haven't understood the case. Even my grandmother who is 100 y.o., knows what the hell happened. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS FAMILY? Is their IQ that low? Are they this stupid?
The problem has nothing to do with the fact that a medical substance was admnistered in a private setting: if one has money to duplicate a hospital setting in a private area, so be it.
The problem is VERY simple: 1. Michael, a hardcore insomniac and a millionaire, wanted to sleep. 2. Michael, desperate, hired a doctor to put him to sleep. The average person suffering from the same problem can't afford to do that, but Michael shat money. 3. Murray, instead of putting his patient to sleep, killed him. That is, instead of admnistering enough proprofol to put Michael to sleep, admnistered 40x more due to negligence. 4. Added to error explained in #3, Murray did A LOT more errors. 5. Michael died.
IT'S VERY SIMPLE. Being an addict or not has NOTHING to do with anything. This is propofol we're talking about. If Michael was addicted to it, he wouldn't have even been able to open his eyes properly let alone dance for hours. Being an addict or not has ZERO to do with his death. ZERO. But, even with this in mind, the fact is that Jackson was not an addict.
Please, Jackson family lovers, answer my question: WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS FAMILY? I'km not even a MJ but I have to put my head in my hands and wonder how can this family be so cruel, so stupid! IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE? I'VE NEVER, IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS. MY father is a docor, I'm on my way to become on: we've seen EVERYTHING there is to be see in people, but I have NEVER, NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS FUCKING FAMILY? WHAT THE HELL IS THE MATTER WITH THEM? | |
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I just want 2 say: I know 4 a FACT Michael Jackson IS with God now, I have no doubts about it either. Rest In Peace Sir, the pain from this earth is gone 4ever. | |
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Not to be funny or anything, but I believe that he had used Propofol with success before so why woudn't worlk again as long as he had someone who knew what they were doing right? I mean...if what you said was true then he would have died back in the 90s.
Though your conclusion he would have died anyways regardless of the doctor he would have gotten doesn't make any logical sense though... There's no way knowing that. [Edited 11/8/11 10:39am] | |
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I think the whole thing is sad for everyone involve. Murray deserves to be convicted, but I do believe if it wasn't Murray it would be another Doctor.
Another thing what do you guys think about the contradictions about his health? According to the Pathologist he had an unusal heart for 50 year old, it was a heart of a much younger person. And on the other hand according to Murray he was clinically blind. Apparently he also had an extra rib. [Edited 11/8/11 10:58am] | |
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True. This term came about because people wanted to believe racism doesn't exist. So supposedly black people can invoke this "card" that actually creates an ADVANTAGE. Fiction and BS promoted by people with an agenda and repeated by those without a clue. LOL | |
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Well, I don't remember pathologist sayign he had an unusual heart. I remember him saying strong, but I might be mistaken. Gotta watch it again. As for what Murray said, do you seriously believe taht he was blind dancing around with shades? 13 ribs, yeah that was mentioned, but why could it be such a problem? "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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I don't know about blindness, but the autopsy said he had inflammed lungs, an extra rib, and arthritis "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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I read that as well. | |
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i believe this as well. i don't think this just popped into mj's head out of the blue with murray. he didn't die before b/c the doctor(s) before did the job right. as the expert dr. shafer testified, he is appalled at how propofol, a perfectly safe and effective drug, has been given a bad name b/c of murray's misuse of it.
yes, the other doctors definitely misused it on mj, too, if they were giving it to him for sleep, BUT the big difference here seems to be murray walking away, not monitoring, talking on the phone when everyone - including mj - knew that propofol has to be monitored.
i don't think mj would be dead if murray had been monitoring him that morning. he might have died later as this was an extreme practice, and as dr. shafer also said, to the extent that there have never been any studies done on the prolonged use of propofol on a nightly basis, i think it's possible that mj could have died from an unknown side effect eventually. | |
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i agree with what you've said. however, i don't share your belief that the jacksons will pull their lawsuit. in spite of the fact that murray admits that he was employed by mj, and the only thing aeg was doing was fronting money that they were going to recoup back from mj after the tour, the jacksons will continue to press this lawsuit. in these two years, we've all seen and learned things about these people that defy explanation. why would that stop now? | |
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"Am I the Beast You Visualized?" The Cultural Abuse of Michael Jackson "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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I agree with you that MJ was not a drug addict. That label was pushed from almost the moment he died starting with that lying sack of sh!t Deepak Chopra. But there was a motive to kill him, he feared that he would be killed and he is dead. Branca, McClain, Sony, AEG all skipping off down the road while Murry takes the fall because he was the actual trigger man but he didn't act alone. In fact, he probably wasn't even privy to the details, just the stupid azz who was blinded by the dollars and actually committed the act. His contempt for MJ is obviouis from that recording - as though any one of us would sound any different recorded while under anethesia!
As for the family pushing the drug addict label it was probably so all contracts signed with AEG and other corrupt entities could be nullified due to MJ not being "in his right mind" when he signed them. | |
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totally co-sign. what trial were they watching? certainly not the same one i was. walgren made mincemeat - absolute mincemeat - of the def's so-called addiction expert, and a lot of these poster act like that didn't happen. wtf?????
i'm really tired of hearing this 'oh, poor dr. murray got caught up in mj's money and fame', 'oh, poor murray is the fall guy for mj's addictions', 'if it wasn't him, it would have been someone else'.
murray wanted to be caught up in mj's money and fame. dr. metzger and nurse lee had no trouble telling mj 'no' and warning him. you bet believe when mj asked him, murray downplayed any risks b/c of the potential benefit to himself if he could convince mj that he was the right man for the job. if, as murray said, he believed that klein was giving him addictive drugs, it certainly didn't stop murray himself from administering his own store of benzos, did it? how can he hypocritically point the finger at anyone?
finally, it is an absolutely irrelevant, non-sensical argument to say that if it wasn't murray, it would have been someone else. would someone else have left mj unmonitored under the influence of propofol? there is no evidence to conclusively state that. and what is even the point of saying that anyway? so murray shouldn't have been prosecuted? that's absurd. if my friend and i rob a bank, but the police catch her and not me, should they not prosecute her for what she took part in, just because b/c i got away? you hear this absurd argument applied to klein and the so-called other doctors. i say so-called b/c all the mj doctors were investigated and not one charge has been brought against any of them in over two effing years. the bottom line is that none of them were in the room anyway. i don't care if klein gave mj demoral three days before he died; to the best of my knowledge, he didn't leave mj unattended to go chat up some girl. [Edited 11/8/11 11:54am] | |
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i personally think you're right.
what other purpose could he have been making it for? this guy was looking for $5m, and he was going to get it somehow.
now we hear that he's been working on a documentary which will be aired this friday. wonder no more at how murray was able to afford his defense. [Edited 11/8/11 12:01pm] | |
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Yeah I doubt another doctor would've killed him. Murray was just DUMB. | |
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Too many well meaning people are still totally oblivious to the underlying motive to destroy Michael Jackson. Quite simply put, no black man was supposed to outsell Elvis and The Beatles plus OWN the publishing rights to all their sh!t. Look at the huge difference in the People magazine cover of MJ that came before MJ purchased the ATV Catalog and the one that followed. Once MJ "owned" The Beatles and Elvis, the sh!t storm started and never let up. Once he merged ATV with Sony's publishing to create Sony/ATV he had an asset that would ultimately cost him his life, while the average person on the street believed him to be financially irresponsible and virtually bankrupt. The irony is just too much. | |
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I have no patience for conspiracy theories. I usually don't even reply to users who start spewing them, as I have such little regard for their intelligence but I will, this time. Sony, AEG, Branca and McClain have nothing to do with MJ's death. Murray acted alone. Period.
Second: the addict claims didn't start with Deepak. They started with Randy, Joe and Leonard Rowe who, literally two minutes after Mj was announced death, sent Oxman on TV to bash MJ in the cruelest of manners. The three later proceeded to cement the junkie legacy and dragged along the entire family. The purpose? Ohhh...so many self-serving purporses, from money from rich entities to desire to clean up the their reputation. The family created the junkie legacy not anyone else, so stop pointing the finger.
Third: nope. Stop excusing the family's behavior. They don't have MJ's interests at heart. Never had and never will. They care NOTHING about them. That argument about nullifying contracts is rosy made up bullshit invented by some desperate, looney tooney mind. That is NOT true and only an idiot would think it's true. It's made up and it's false. But, hey, you're a Jackson family fan, right? That might explain some things.
The Jackson family floons are on fire...I see. | |
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I don't know wtf is wrong with some of these poster in here. Some in here trying to go "Oh MJ was an addict, but MJ fans are far too stupid to realize it" have so much misinformation in their posts I would be here all day trying to point them out.
If you just came to the party now, don't sit here and try to school anybody here.
Even though I do think that watching Murray's eventual downfall is sad as well, he only has himself to blame for his poor decisions. Not MJ, not his baby's mama(s) or whomever else. Just him. | |
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Really? | |
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I really don't care what you have no patience for. You are on a tangent believing whatever you want and honestly I don't give a baby rat's butt what you think of the Jacksons. Any of them. You don't matter in the grand scheme of ANYTHING being discussed here and you probably weren't even alive, let alone aware of what was going on in the country, when the J5 became famous and have a totally revisionist, tabloid sullied view of the Jackson family anyway.
I know that Deepak Chopra started the lie because he was spewing his BS on Larry King Live when the body wasn't even cold and Usher took his mic off and walked away in disgust. At that point the people who hate the Jacksons certainly weren't discerning enough to see all the propoganda that was being planted from the get go by all these self-proclaimed "best friends" and MJ experts that people of your ilk consider credible sources.
And obviously you have no clue about the Sony/ATV catalog and the more than 750,000 songs contained therein. [Edited 11/8/11 12:36pm] | |
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except that he did, didn't he? facts can be diametrically opposed and simultaneously true. it's called a paradox; i'm assuming you've never heard of the word.
murray was in it for the money. as the evidence shows, he demanded a lot of money for his "treatment", eventually settling for less, but still more than he probably had ever seen. he knew full well propofol was not for home use. that's why he didn't keep records. that's why he lied to the emts, the doctors, katherine jackson when they asked him 'what happened'. there is only one reason he was willing to take all these risks to his own well-being and livelihood. MONEY.
paradoxically, however, he never had any concern for mj's health or well being. as the evidence also shows, murray certainly didn't treat mj as he treated his other patients. murray was bad-mouthing him to police within two days after mj's death. he couldn't even be concerned enuf to consult with klein about his treatment, though by his own admission he knew who klein was and when mj visited him. he rebuffed kenny ortega when ortega tried to inquire about what was going on. frank dileo left a message for murray about an 'episode' that mj had had. and i'm sure he heard about mj's call to nurse lee about the hot and cold feelings on his body. yet, in spite of knowing ALL of this, as walgren said, murray went right back to administering the benzos and propofol, and went off to talk on the phone, thereby killing the cash cow.
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Well, what you say may have been the intentions of those above, the different corporation bosses, but as for the regular folks, I think the guy hits the nail on its head. Plus I¨d put in what's stated in my signature. Remember the movie Amadeus? I think Mike's greatness was something many people couldn't put up with. He reminded them of their averageness. I think many people worked their ego by putting him down, insulting him as if saying "well, maybe I am not as great as you are, but AT LEAST I AM NORMAL." I will never be amazed at how people just WANT Mike to be weird. I wrote a while ago how someone at an anniversary at our work pointed out how they believed that they bet Mike did not become white because of vitiligo and that he surely must have had himself injected with something. You can feel that no matter what, people WANT him to be a freak. It makes them feel better about themselves. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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oh lord...Elvis died almost the same way Michael did--a combination of addiction and enabling from a doctor. So what were the motivations to destroy him?
People read way too much into this stuff. Michael Jackson was a beloved entertainer who tarnished his own image & hurt himself with drugs. Nobody was bothered that he sold that many records, we all bought them!!! My Legacy
http://prince.org/msg/8/192731 | |
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