Right -- all we know is what he said (he answered emphatically "no" when the doctor asked if he was suicidal then, and we have no information that he discussed the subject beyond that with anyone else) and look at his known behavior and actions, and try to see what seems most logical.

-

that goes for this whole thing. 2.5 years into this, we're not going to come to some big eureka moment by talking about the same set of facts over and over again. There's no additional meaningful "research" or "investigation" for people like us to undertake, unless other facts come to light.

1Sasha said:

I don't know, disch. Maybe we'll never know.

disch said:

Right -- all we know is what he said (he answered emphatically "no" when the doctor asked if he was suicidal then, and we have no information that he discussed the subject beyond that with anyone else) and look at his known behavior and actions, and try to see what seems most logical.

-

that goes for this whole thing. 2.5 years into this, we're not going to come to some big eureka moment by talking about the same set of facts over and over again. There's no additional meaningful "research" or "investigation" for people like us to undertake, unless other facts come to light.

No one forced you to join the thread again Disch.

There are people here who still want to discuss.

PennyPurple said:

disch said:

Right -- all we know is what he said (he answered emphatically "no" when the doctor asked if he was suicidal then, and we have no information that he discussed the subject beyond that with anyone else) and look at his known behavior and actions, and try to see what seems most logical.

-

that goes for this whole thing. 2.5 years into this, we're not going to come to some big eureka moment by talking about the same set of facts over and over again. There's no additional meaningful "research" or "investigation" for people like us to undertake, unless other facts come to light.

No one forced you to join the thread again Disch.

There are people here who still want to discuss.

I agree with you, Penny, but re disch's comment...sometimes the 'not knowing' leads to sadness and frustration and even anger at the unfairness of so many things that went down. It's understandable...

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

No one forced you to join the thread again Disch.

There are people here who still want to discuss.

I agree with you, Penny, but re disch's comment...sometimes the 'not knowing' leads to sadness and frustration and even anger at the unfairness of so many things that went down. It's understandable...

I'm just tired of people coming on here just to bitch that we are talking about it. If it bothers them, stay away from thread.

Penny, I'm not "bitching about what we are talking about." I specifically used the words "meaningful research and investigation" because it's true, I don't think what we're doing here is really "investigation" at this point. It might be called something else (rumination or speculation perhaps) and that other things might have value to people.

-

But separately, 2.5 years after Prince's death, I don't think that delving thoughfully into the bigger questions around the role that these discussions play in the lives of those of us who partipate in them -- why some of us, me included, feel compelled to some degree to continue to discuss this, even when we're just rehashing -- should be forbidden. And respectfully, it's really up to the moderator to police this thread.

-

In the same way you often tell folks who you think don't like this thread that they can just not open it, I'd remind you: If you don't particularly like a specific comment on this thread, you can choose just to scroll past it.

PennyPurple said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I agree with you, Penny, but re disch's comment...sometimes the 'not knowing' leads to sadness and frustration and even anger at the unfairness of so many things that went down. It's understandable...

I'm just tired of people coming on here just to bitch that we are talking about it. If it bothers them, stay away from thread.

[Edited 8/8/18 13:25pm]

[Edited 8/8/18 13:27pm]

disch said:

Penny, I'm not "bitching about what we are talking about." I specifically used the words "meaningful research and investigation" because it's true, I don't think what we're doing here is really "investigation" at this point. It might be called something else (rumination or speculation perhaps) and that other things might have value to people.

-

I don't think that delving thoughfully into the bigger impact of these discussiosn -- why some of us, me included, feel compelled to some degree to continue to discuss this -- should be forbidden. And respectfully, it's really up to the moderator to police this thread.

-

In the same way you often tell folks who you think don't like this thread that they can just not open it, I'd remind you: If you don't particularly like a specific comment on this thread, you can choose just to scroll past it.

[Edited 8/8/18 13:25pm]

We KNOW, you KEEP telling us.

I "keep telling you"? Uh, ok, Penny. I'm a pretty infrequent poster on this thread, but sure -- I "keep telling you" that.

-

You know, this thread, like any here, isn't some exclusive club that only "we" or "us" (as you define that group) can contribute to. For better or worse, it's open to the public.

PennyPurple said:

disch said:

Penny, I'm not "bitching about what we are talking about." I specifically used the words "meaningful research and investigation" because it's true, I don't think what we're doing here is really "investigation" at this point. It might be called something else (rumination or speculation perhaps) and that other things might have value to people.

-

I don't think that delving thoughfully into the bigger impact of these discussiosn -- why some of us, me included, feel compelled to some degree to continue to discuss this -- should be forbidden. And respectfully, it's really up to the moderator to police this thread.

-

In the same way you often tell folks who you think don't like this thread that they can just not open it, I'd remind you: If you don't particularly like a specific comment on this thread, you can choose just to scroll past it.

[Edited 8/8/18 13:25pm]

We KNOW, you KEEP telling us.

disch said:

Penny, I'm not "bitching about what we are talking about." I specifically used the words "meaningful research and investigation" because it's true, I don't think what we're doing here is really "investigation" at this point. It might be called something else (rumination or speculation perhaps) and that other things might have value to people.

-

But separately, 2.5 years after Prince's death, I don't think that delving thoughfully into the bigger questions around the role that these discussions play in the lives of those of us who partipate in them -- why some of us, me included, feel compelled to some degree to continue to discuss this, even when we're just rehashing -- should be forbidden. And respectfully, it's really up to the moderator to police this thread.

-

In the same way you often tell folks who you think don't like this thread that they can just not open it, I'd remind you: If you don't particularly like a specific comment on this thread, you can choose just to scroll past it.

PennyPurple said:

I'm just tired of people coming on here just to bitch that we are talking about it. If it bothers them, stay away from thread.

[Edited 8/8/18 13:25pm]

[Edited 8/8/18 13:27pm]

Just like many of us were involved passionately FOR YEARS (and still are ) trying to tease out every little meaning (and the 'truest' meaning, too) from every song lyric: 'it was Vanity he loved best!" "No, Mayte was the one!" "No he was really incapable of love!." So I think this thread and others are all part of the Prince trip. We have been sucked into his orbit, and even though he's dead...many of us here are not yet at break-away speed. And I, for one, am not sure I ever want to get there. It's about the journey.

[Edited 8/8/18 13:38pm]

disch said:

And once again the discussion is all about certain posters and who they think has the right to post. Why certain posters don’t just admit to enjoying the death discussion is beyond me. Computer Addiction keeps us away from real life problems but we shouldn’t be rude and sarcastic. Are you throwing questions out here to get your ego stroked by your friends or are you searching for answers?

OK, I finally downloaded the phone records, and it looks like the last call that KJ made that we have a record of on 4/20 is at 3:41pm. He seemed to be on his phone ALOT, so I find this very odd. I admit I may be missing something. If not, it raises my suspicions.

But years of discussing the precise circumstances of his death (including things like the exact position of his corpse, where he might have vomited and/or lost control of his bowels, whether drugs had rendered him impotent, etc) is part of a "journey" that shouldn't end, in the same way as parsing his lyrics is? It's hard for me to connect those 2 things as having the same purpose and impact.

-

(And just note: nowhere above did I make any declaration about what people should or shouldn't discuss. I'm just getting at is that it's interesting to me to think about why some of us want to continue to discuss these topics, what value this particular discussion brings to us).

Bodhitheblackdog said:

disch said:

Penny, I'm not "bitching about what we are talking about." I specifically used the words "meaningful research and investigation" because it's true, I don't think what we're doing here is really "investigation" at this point. It might be called something else (rumination or speculation perhaps) and that other things might have value to people.

-

But separately, 2.5 years after Prince's death, I don't think that delving thoughfully into the bigger questions around the role that these discussions play in the lives of those of us who partipate in them -- why some of us, me included, feel compelled to some degree to continue to discuss this, even when we're just rehashing -- should be forbidden. And respectfully, it's really up to the moderator to police this thread.

-

In the same way you often tell folks who you think don't like this thread that they can just not open it, I'd remind you: If you don't particularly like a specific comment on this thread, you can choose just to scroll past it.

[Edited 8/8/18 13:25pm]

[Edited 8/8/18 13:27pm]

Just like many of us were involved passionately FOR YEARS (and still are ) trying to tease out every little meaning (and the 'truest' meaning, too) from every song lyric: 'it was Vanity he loved best!" "No, Mayte was the one!" "No he was really incapable of love!." So I think this thread and others are all part of the Prince trip. We have been sucked into his orbit, and even though he's dead...many of us here are not yet at break-away speed. And I, for one, am not sure I ever want to get there. It's about the journey.

[Edited 8/8/18 13:38pm]

Camileyun said:

Lovejunky said:

https://www.swnewsmedia.com/chanhassen_villager/investigation-prince-struggled-with-drugs-for-years-because-of-pain/article_9a1d35bd-e7b0-503c-8da2-356ead97074f.html

"In all likelihood"?? Way to stand by your convictions there, Mark. And what in the evidence suggests that he didn't know what he was taking?

"In all likelihood" Mark Metz knows details that WE DO NOT !

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Just like many of us were involved passionately FOR YEARS (and still are ) trying to tease out every little meaning (and the 'truest' meaning, too) from every song lyric: 'it was Vanity he loved best!" "No, Mayte was the one!" "No he was really incapable of love!." So I think this thread and others are all part of the Prince trip. We have been sucked into his orbit, and even though he's dead...many of us here are not yet at break-away speed. And I, for one, am not sure I ever want to get there. It's about the journey.

[Edited 8/8/18 13:38pm]

Amen Bodhi.

disch said:

But years of discussing the precise circumstances of his death (including things like the exact position of his corpse, where he might have vomited and/or lost control of his bowels, whether drugs had rendered him impotent, etc) is part of a "journey" that shouldn't end, in the same way as parsing his lyrics is? It's hard for me to connect those 2 things as having the same purpose and impact.

-

(And just note: nowhere above did I make any declaration about what people should or shouldn't discuss. I'm just getting at is that it's interesting to me to think about why some of us want to continue to discuss these topics, what value this particular discussion brings to us).

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Just like many of us were involved passionately FOR YEARS (and still are ) trying to tease out every little meaning (and the 'truest' meaning, too) from every song lyric: 'it was Vanity he loved best!" "No, Mayte was the one!" "No he was really incapable of love!." So I think this thread and others are all part of the Prince trip. We have been sucked into his orbit, and even though he's dead...many of us here are not yet at break-away speed. And I, for one, am not sure I ever want to get there. It's about the journey.

[Edited 8/8/18 13:38pm]

Usually we're pretty much in sync, disch, but not this time. Your illustrations drill down on the mundane and material. Many of his fans can't/won't let go because he is still a powerful presence to them in a different dimension.

You don't get it and that's OK, no problemo.But when you get into trying to define "purpose" and "impact" you are trying to reach into others' souls and judge them...and you have no right to do that.

[Edited 8/8/18 14:16pm]

[Edited 8/8/18 14:17pm]

Where am I judging? Where did I say that anyone was a good person or bad person or anything of that nature?

-

I'm one of the people who has participated in this dicussions, including some of the "morbid" stuff, at times. But I guess I do like to engage in self-reflection about why -- years later -- I'm still drawn to these discussiosn at times. I never really considered that kind of self-reflection or observation "judgment" and I don't think that think it's something I have "no right" to do.

-

And yes, I do think that that what we (yes, we -- that includes me) get out of discussing the details of his death is different than what we get out of discussing, say, his song lyrics or his chord progressions.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

disch said:

But years of discussing the precise circumstances of his death (including things like the exact position of his corpse, where he might have vomited and/or lost control of his bowels, whether drugs had rendered him impotent, etc) is part of a "journey" that shouldn't end, in the same way as parsing his lyrics is? It's hard for me to connect those 2 things as having the same purpose and impact.

-

(And just note: nowhere above did I make any declaration about what people should or shouldn't discuss. I'm just getting at is that it's interesting to me to think about why some of us want to continue to discuss these topics, what value this particular discussion brings to us).

Usually we're pretty much in sync, disch, but not this time. Your illustrations drill down on the mundane and material. Many of his fans can't/won't let go because he is still a powerful presence to them in a different dimension.

You don't get it and that's OK, no problemo.But when you get into trying to define "purpose" and "impact" you are trying to reach into others' souls and judge them...and you have no right to do that.

[Edited 8/8/18 14:16pm]

[Edited 8/8/18 14:17pm]

1Sasha said:

I thought about that too...except suicide is usually such a private thing right? I can't imagine he would chose to do that in the presence of others. It is really confusing. But if he did want to go why would he "fight to get back in his body"? It really doesn't make sense because if he was truly scared and felt like God was giving him one last chance to turn his problem around, then I can't imagine he wouldn't have accepted help that night and gone to rehab. It's so difficult to decipher his motives. We can only guess what would seem logical I guess .

Krystalkisses said:

1Sasha said:

Did you ever think that maybe he thought he wouldn't wake up from what he took on the plane? Think about it: how long would it take the plane to land - where would it land - how fast could he be treated? He was thisclose to not being saved in Moline.

I thought about that too...except suicide is usually such a private thing right? I can't imagine he would chose to do that in the presence of others. It is really confusing. But if he did want to go why would he "fight to get back in his body"? It really doesn't make sense because if he was truly scared and felt like God was giving him one last chance to turn his problem around, then I can't imagine he wouldn't have accepted help that night and gone to rehab. It's so difficult to decipher his motives. We can only guess what would seem logical I guess .

Re his apparent resistance to rehab: I have often wondered what it was about Tyka's rehab experience which Prince paid for, where he visited her some say on a daily basis and which was successful for her...that turned him off about rehab?! Why did he support it for her...and reject it for himself? I wish she could/would shed some light on this.

Wow a friend just sent this to me on FB. I don't know how to post a video, but if anyone knows how feel free to do so.

This guy hits the nail on the head about this drug crisis we find ourselves in.

It is a great listen.

https://www.facebook.com/...928566795/

Lovejunky said:

No question he knows more than us!! But, on the point of whether or not P knew what he was taking, that detail better either be a note from P saying so, or
Mark was in his head! Nothing else, that I can think of anyway, would matter.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

That is a very interesting observation. I remember in the Oprah interview he said he "took someone through " therapy and I wondered why/who at the time. Maybe her? I'm not sure because of the time frame.

Could an IV of saline affect the absorption rate or metabolism of drugs? Just wondering.
[Edited 8/8/18 15:38pm]

Camileyun said:

Could an IV of saline affect the absorption rate or metabolism of drugs? Just wondering. [Edited 8/8/18 15:38pm]

If you give a medication intravenously, it will be introduced more rapidly and have a stronger effect.

Otherwise, no. A saline IV would hydrate.

peggyon said:

Camileyun said:

Could an IV of saline affect the absorption rate or metabolism of drugs? Just wondering. [Edited 8/8/18 15:38pm]

If you give a medication intravenously, it will be introduced more rapidly and have a stronger effect.

Otherwise, no. A saline IV would hydrate.

more than likely, the IV of saline was to counteract the withdrawl syptoms which include diarreah and vomiting, like peggyon said, to rehydrate...remember he went to the hospital a couple of times in the past under the guise of being dehydrated and received a saline IV ?

PennyPurple said:

Wow a friend just sent this to me on FB. I don't know how to post a video, but if anyone knows how feel free to do so.

This guy hits the nail on the head about this drug crisis we find ourselves in.

It is a great listen.

https://www.facebook.com/...928566795/

Okay, I tried to post the video but it doesn't really work right now, sorry Penny.

[Edited 8/8/18 16:58pm]

Lovejunky said:

https://www.swnewsmedia.com/chanhassen_villager/investigation-prince-struggled-with-drugs-for-years-because-of-pain/article_9a1d35bd-e7b0-503c-8da2-356ead97074f.html

“Nothing in the evidence suggests that Prince knowingly ingested fentanyl.

In addition, there is no evidence that any person associated with Prince

knew Prince possessed any counterfeit pills containing fentanyl.

In all likelihood, Prince had no idea he was taking a counterfeit pill that could kill him,”

Carver County Attorney Mark Metz.

I would say if a pharmacist couldn't tell just by looking at them that they were counterfeit I don't know how a regular person could tell just by looking at them. That's some scary mess for the rest of us, if for some oddball reason a mistake happens.

PennyPurple said:

Wow a friend just sent this to me on FB. I don't know how to post a video, but if anyone knows how feel free to do so.

This guy hits the nail on the head about this drug crisis we find ourselves in.

It is a great listen.

https://www.facebook.com/...928566795/

Care to give the Cliff Notes version of what was actually said?

onlyforaminute said:

Lovejunky said:

https://www.swnewsmedia.com/chanhassen_villager/investigation-prince-struggled-with-drugs-for-years-because-of-pain/article_9a1d35bd-e7b0-503c-8da2-356ead97074f.html

I would say if a pharmacist couldn't tell just by looking at them that they were counterfeit I don't know how a regular person could tell just by looking at them. That's some scary mess for the rest of us, if for some oddball reason a mistake happens.

If you don't want a "mistake" to happen...get all your drugs from a legit pharmacy as per doctors' orders! It's not rocket science LOL.!!!

onlyforaminute said:

PennyPurple said:

Wow a friend just sent this to me on FB. I don't know how to post a video, but if anyone knows how feel free to do so.

This guy hits the nail on the head about this drug crisis we find ourselves in.

It is a great listen.

https://www.facebook.com/...928566795/

Care to give the Cliff Notes version of what was actually said?

You know I would, but here's the deal. People ask questions or where such and such is located at, what zipfile, etc. and I answer them and try to provide the file and such so they can read them. But then I get attacked, and people say things like I like to post to stroke my ego, etc. etc. So I think I'll pass on saying much more. Sorry if the link doesn't work, I don't know how to fix it.

PennyPurple said:

onlyforaminute said:

Care to give the Cliff Notes version of what was actually said?

You know I would, but here's the deal. People ask questions or where such and such is located at, what zipfile, etc. and I answer them and try to provide the file and such so they can read them. But then I get attacked, and people say things like I like to post to stroke my ego, etc. etc. So I think I'll pass on saying much more. Sorry if the link doesn't work, I don't know how to fix it.

Oh Penny, I am proud to be the first to say your dedication, smarts and energy have been BEYOND VALUABLE on Prince.Org because you are SO OBVIOUSLY motivated by TRUE LOVE for Prince, his grieving fans and the quest for the truth as to why we lost him too soon and why a universally loved human being/genius/angel felt so alone and confused at the end. I am deeply grateful for all your generosity of time and effort. Much Love, don't despair...

[Edited 8/8/18 18:08pm]

PennyPurple said:

onlyforaminute said:

Care to give the Cliff Notes version of what was actually said?

You know I would, but here's the deal. People ask questions or where such and such is located at, what zipfile, etc. and I answer them and try to provide the file and such so they can read them. But then I get attacked, and people say things like I like to post to stroke my ego, etc. etc. So I think I'll pass on saying much more. Sorry if the link doesn't work, I don't know how to fix it.

link works fine for me....as always, thanks for posting