Lovejunky said:

Camileyun said:

Lovejunky said:

He also promised that he would get tests when he returned home, and followed through.

To the people thinking that he didnt want to take the drug test in Moline becasue he knew he had fentanyl in his system,

I would echo a comment made earlier by Paul,

"why would he be afraid of revealing Fentanyl versus other opiates?"

Maybe because he told them he had taken Percocet (even though the Rx wasn't in his name). It's hard to know what he was thinking, other than he wanted out of there asap.

SInce both Percecot and Fentanyl are OPIATES, if he knew he was taking Fentanyl there would be no harm in revealing that, especially since the Percocet was not prescribed either ?

Because the percocets or vicodin could be easily explained away. He had those scrips from Dr. S and the dentist Dr. boo. Or he could've said, I have a blinding headache after I jammed a bit and somebody gave him somthing to help him with that.

And fentanyl couldn't be so easily explained and he knew that.

Lovejunky said:

Camileyun said:

Lovejunky said: Maybe because he told them he had taken Percocet (even though the Rx wasn't in his name). It's hard to know what he was thinking, other than he wanted out of there asap.

SInce both Percecot and Fentanyl are OPIATES, if he knew he was taking Fentanyl there would be no harm in revealing that, especially since the Percocet was not prescribed either ?

PennyPurple said:

Because the percocets or vicodin could be easily explained away. He had those scrips from Dr. S and the dentist Dr. boo. Or he could've said, I have a blinding headache after I jammed a bit and somebody gave him somthing to help him with that.

And fentanyl couldn't be so easily explained and he knew that.

Lovejunky said:

SInce both Percecot and Fentanyl are OPIATES, if he knew he was taking Fentanyl there would be no harm in revealing that, especially since the Percocet was not prescribed either ?

In a similar vein:

I think he had a script for Oxycodone, (like Percocet w/o the Aspirin) and Tylenol #3 from Dr Boo.

It's a little different than Hydrocodone.

Though, I think he knew that having Fentanyl show in his bloodwork would have outed him as a SERIOUS addict

I think another astute orger was on to this idea already.

[Edited 8/7/18 21:17pm]

[Edited 8/7/18 21:23pm]

https://www.swnewsmedia.com/chanhassen_villager/investigation-prince-struggled-with-drugs-for-years-because-of-pain/article_9a1d35bd-e7b0-503c-8da2-356ead97074f.html

“Nothing in the evidence suggests that Prince knowingly ingested fentanyl.

In addition, there is no evidence that any person associated with Prince

knew Prince possessed any counterfeit pills containing fentanyl.

In all likelihood, Prince had no idea he was taking a counterfeit pill that could kill him,”

Carver County Attorney Mark Metz.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Those who deny or minimize the depth of Prince's long struggle with addiction are looking away from how he transcended his demons and fought hard every day for his art and to share his many gifts with the world. Despite his addiction, his work ethic and artistic creations were monumental. When you deny his addiction you take away some of his hard-earned glory.

Well said.

peggyon said:

onlyforaminute said:

True. But then I feel it's a catch 22, if there are policies in place to try and catch these counterfeits that's killing all kinds of people from various walks of life yet the hospital makes arbitrary decisions on not checking then where does that leave patients. I don't know. It's either or either or.

Talk to Prince's family then. It's a lawsuit without merit. It seems some of Prince's family knew about his opiate addiction. Why not help chase the counterfeit drug-makers while he was alive?

[Edited 8/7/18 18:13pm]

They are looking for money, pure and simple. That is all they ever wanted from Prince when he was alive, so why change now?

Lovejunky said:

https://www.swnewsmedia.com/chanhassen_villager/investigation-prince-struggled-with-drugs-for-years-because-of-pain/article_9a1d35bd-e7b0-503c-8da2-356ead97074f.html

“Nothing in the evidence suggests that Prince knowingly ingested fentanyl.

In addition, there is no evidence that any person associated with Prince

knew Prince possessed any counterfeit pills containing fentanyl.

In all likelihood, Prince had no idea he was taking a counterfeit pill that could kill him,”

Carver County Attorney Mark Metz.

I am referring to the Moline incident where he overdosed. This was very likely Fentanyl.

Prince said he had mixed one pill with several Percocets.

THe MD was not having that explanation.

[Edited 8/8/18 6:52am]

I agree. I of course have no idea what his exact thought process was, but for a guy who seemed to value control over his environment and interactions highly, I'm sure being in a random hospital he did not choose to go to, interacting with medical pros he did not have any connection to, might not have been a situation he found desireable, and he simply wanted to get out of there asap, leaving as little trace as he could manage. From what the reports said, it sounded like the only reason he stayed as long as he did in Moline was because the plane wasn't ready to depart. Once it was, he was out of there.

Camileyun said:

Lovejunky said:

He also promised that he would get tests when he returned home, and followed through.

To the people thinking that he didnt want to take the drug test in Moline becasue he knew he had fentanyl in his system,

I would echo a comment made earlier by Paul,

"why would he be afraid of revealing Fentanyl versus other opiates?"

Maybe because he told them he had taken Percocet (even though the Rx wasn't in his name). It's hard to know what he was thinking, other than he wanted out of there asap.

Just listened to an interview with Sonny Rollins (jazz tenor saxophonist) about his feeling about the connection between musicians and drug-taking. Though he was a heroin user in the past, he is now a non-user. He said he felt heroin helped him to play better (initially), "blot out" distractions, and was instumental in helping him access his "sub-conscious/spirituality." It was a seeking of transcendence.

He felt artists are looking for a world beyond the mundane where they can create/meditate.

He also said playing live took him to that place where he was not really conscious...somehat "out-of-body". (took alot of practice to do that, though).

I was struck by what Prince had said about not remembering his on-stage performances as he was in another place.

I feel Prince may have used drugs to access/enhance this state of mind. He likely had physical pain as well and some emotional issues as well.

Sonny also said that extended. drug use untimatley becomes deadly.

Lovejunky said:

Camileyun said:

Lovejunky said:

https://www.swnewsmedia.com/chanhassen_villager/investigation-prince-struggled-with-drugs-for-years-because-of-pain/article_9a1d35bd-e7b0-503c-8da2-356ead97074f.html

“Nothing in the evidence suggests that Prince knowingly ingested fentanyl.

In addition, there is no evidence that any person associated with Prince

knew Prince possessed any counterfeit pills containing fentanyl.

In all likelihood, Prince had no idea he was taking a counterfeit pill that could kill him,”

Carver County Attorney Mark Metz.

"In all likelihood"?? Way to stand by your convictions there, Mark. And what in the evidence suggests that he didn't know what he was taking?

peggyon said:

Lovejunky said:

https://www.swnewsmedia.com/chanhassen_villager/investigation-prince-struggled-with-drugs-for-years-because-of-pain/article_9a1d35bd-e7b0-503c-8da2-356ead97074f.html

I am referring to the Moline incident where he overdosed. This was very likely Fentanyl.

Prince said he had mixed one pill with several Percocets.

THe MD was not having that explanation.

[Edited 8/8/18 6:52am]

But associates, likely family knew he was dealing with illicit substances.

peggyon said:

disch said:

Lovejunky said:

benni said:

Exactly. Not only that, but if he was alert and oriented, no signs of dementia, no signs that he was a threat to himself (thinking of suicide) or others, then he had the right to self-determination. He had the right, as we all do, to accept or decline medical treatment. We cannot force treatment on someone who does not want treatment if he is able to make his own decisions. They are not jury or judge, they are not investigators. In an emergency setting, in which someone is OD'ing, their goal is to treat the patient's symptoms, not the drug. Their responsibility is not to assess the drug or what kind of drug the patient took, their responsibility is to stabilize that patient and save their life. Unfortunately, in situations like that, the doctors know the patient will probably go right back to the drug, and they may end up treating that patient again for another overdose, when they do, they'll once again treat the symptoms, not the drug. Adult Protective Services will not even get involved in such cases, even if you could argue that the drug use is a threat to the patient, because they view drug use and alcoholism as a lifestyle choice. And everyone has the right to determine how they want to live.

[Edited 8/7/18 19:24pm]

He also promised that he would get tests when he returned home, and followed through.

To the people thinking that he didnt want to take the drug test in Moline becasue he knew he had fentanyl in his system,

I would echo a comment made earlier by Paul,

"why would he be afraid of revealing Fentanyl versus other opiates?"

To me, an opiod is an opiod is an opiod. Heroin is illegal to have, fentanyal is not.

onlyforaminute said:

Lovejunky said:

He also promised that he would get tests when he returned home, and followed through.

To the people thinking that he didnt want to take the drug test in Moline becasue he knew he had fentanyl in his system,

I would echo a comment made earlier by Paul,

"why would he be afraid of revealing Fentanyl versus other opiates?"

To me, an opiod is an opiod is an opiod. Heroin is illegal to have, fentanyal is not.

? Fentanyl is illegal to have without a prescription. An opioid is illegal without a script too.

Yeah but the Moline situation may not have involved tons of thought by him around legal jeopardy and various other things -- maybe it was just, he woke up in some random hospital surrounded by random people and wanted to get out of there as quickly as he could with as little connection there as possible. Doing tests etc. might just drag things out in a place he did not want to be. Keep in mind, this wasn't the first time in his life he'd ended up in a hospital due to a substance-related issue, so perhaps his primary concern wasn't panic over the substance itself but just, get me back to my controlled environment NOW. Who knows

Camileyun said:

disch said:

I agree. I of course have no idea what his exact thought process was, but for a guy who seemed to value control over his environment and interactions highly, I'm sure being in a random hospital he did not choose to go to, interacting with medical pros he did not have any connection to, might not have been a situation he found desireable, and he simply wanted to get out of there asap, leaving as little trace as he could manage. From what the reports said, it sounded like the only reason he stayed as long as he did in Moline was because the plane wasn't ready to depart. Once it was, he was out of there.

He was also in another state with their own laws.

[Edited 8/8/18 10:41am]

Did you ever think that maybe he thought he wouldn't wake up from what he took on the plane? Think about it: how long would it take the plane to land - where would it land - how fast could he be treated? He was thisclose to not being saved in Moline.

Sure. None of us were mind readers and don't know exactly his thought process, but I can understand that there are multiple reasons that a hospital in Moline, Illinois in the middle of the night is not a place he'd want to spend any more time than required.

-

The reason I was commenting was that some peole here were inferring that the reason he didn't want blood tests in Moline were because he knew that his illegal pills contained fentanyl specifically and he didn't want that piece of info revealed. My point was, it seems unsurprising that he would want to get out of that hospital asap and engage with the medical staff there as little possible, whether or not he knew the precise chemical composition of his pills.

Camileyun said:

P was in unlawful possession of controlled substances. That is a crime. I do not know if hospitals in Illinois are obligated to notify LE if they find a patient is commiting such a crime, and I doubt P knew either. I don't think he wanted to risk a possible drug conviction, so, the fact that they didn't actually test the drugs in his possession was a good thing for him at the time (however, tragic in the end).

disch said:

Yes, because some people have speculated here for the last 2.5 years that Moline was a suicide attempt and he was disappointed that it failed. I just think, as we've all discussed many times since then, that his behavior after he got back to Minn. (throwing a fan party, seemingly enduring some degree of opioid withdrawal, visiting Dr S and getting tests and prescriptions, etc) appear out of line with that.

1Sasha said:

Did you ever think that maybe he thought he wouldn't wake up from what he took on the plane? Think about it: how long would it take the plane to land - where would it land - how fast could he be treated? He was thisclose to not being saved in Moline.

I don't know, disch. Maybe we'll never know.

PennyPurple said:

onlyforaminute said:

To me, an opiod is an opiod is an opiod. Heroin is illegal to have, fentanyal is not.

? Fentanyl is illegal to have without a prescription. An opioid is illegal without a script too.

And where in the files do you see the doctor asking to see a prescription?

onlyforaminute said:

PennyPurple said:

? Fentanyl is illegal to have without a prescription. An opioid is illegal without a script too.

And where in the files do you see the doctor asking to see a prescription?

Who said I did?

PennyPurple said:

onlyforaminute said:

And where in the files do you see the doctor asking to see a prescription?

Who said I did?

I'm not but my point is being missed. What difference would it had made in his bloodwork if they found fentanyl? It's not an illegal substance like heroin so it's not something he'd feel compelled to hide if he knew he was taking fentanyl. BUT...if they had found fentanyl in connection to seeing the pill was stamped Watson 853 and knowing about these counterfeits then his bloodwork would have been of signifigance. But not the bloodwork alone. The information was in the pill.