80tomato said:

Is Cat B Mel B from the Spice Girls...just wondering after seeing her posts

But I happen to share a birthday with Mel C

che777x said:

Sometimes it’s not what is going on, but what people think is going on.

This. Especially in Prince World.

SkipperLove said:

I thought KJ was talking about folks like Larry Graham, still kind of in his circle. After all, if we are talking about former employees talking privately to a current employee, Prince can't fire the former employees again and he probably wouldn't know who said what. Plus, NDA's don't cover private conversations. Maybe they really didn't entirely understand the full complexity of his problem so therefore didn't want to speculate too much or give bad advice based on prior experience. Maybe they didn't want to make their enabling look bad..but like I said, its a private conversation. I think he talked to Morris Hayes. Hayes said he needed to get a handle on it and soon, and that if P's behavior was getting really weird than probably it had gotten pretty serious. But like I said, I am not sure people thought he would die that week and knowing how evasive and insular Prince was, once you were out of the loop approaching P on subject might have resulted in a slammed door in the face.

Hear me out here. I know that one assistant stated that "everyone knew", but I imagine the only ones who knew the specifics of what he was talking, how much, when, where he was getting it, etc. were the doctors on tours, possibly direct assistants (but not necessarily--they may have only known he was taking out petty cash, acting loopy or suspicious and asking for "doctors") and drug suppliers. Doctors aren't allowed to talk. Drug dealers won't talk. The rest were probably afraid to ask about it too specifically when they worked for Prince (fear of firings, fear of being giving the runaround, helpless because Prince was evasive). When Kirk called some of them, they might have been vague because they couldn't pinpoint exactly how his problem was manifesting itself. It sounds like he asked the wrong people. I am assuming they were fearful whilst working for Prince to ask about it so therefore useless when asked later by Kirk.

PennyPurple said:

It was in his statement, I don't think he gave names, he was making all kinds of phone calls to past people, who he thought would know what to do, or how to proceed. He told the detective that they wouldn't say anything or very little, like they were scared to say something.

[Edited 7/30/18 21:07pm]

No skipper, KJ reached out to others for help. He didn't reach out to them to see where Prince was getting his supply at, he reached out to them for help and advise to get Prince help.

If you mean to come over and help, well, they weren't working for Prince any more. They might have thought PRince would slam the door in their face or evade them like crazy since they were no longer in the loop. Prince didn't want anybody's help, it seems. Back to Morris Hayes, he said something about thinking he wouldn't be able to do much good because he was out of the loop but he said he felt guilt afterwards because he didn't at least give it a shot. PLus, P died rather quickly and I don't think anyone suspected he would die so quickly after that close call even if it had become a troubling situation.. Maybe some people didn't care, but that's not what Kirk said. He said they were 'scared' and intimidated.

If you mean just advice, my statement still stands that unless they knew the specifics of P's problem (other than "I think he was on something when I knew him") what advice could they give? What if its bad advice or advice that get's Kirk fired and makes prince even more evasive? This might have been what some of the former associates were thinking.

PennyPurple said:

SkipperLove said:

I thought KJ was talking about folks like Larry Graham, kind of in his circle. After all, if we are talking about former employees talking privately to a current employee, Prince can't fire the former employees again and he probably wouldn't know who said what. Plus, NDA's don't cover private conversations. Maybe they really didn't entirely understand the full complexity of his problem so therefore didn't want to speculate too much or give bad advice based on prior experience. Maybe they didn't want to make their enabling look bad..but like I said, its a private conversation. I think he talked to Morris Hayes. Hayes said he needed to get a handle on it and soon, and that if P's behavior was getting really weird than probably it had gotten pretty serious. But like I said, I am not sure people thought he would die that week and knowing how evasive and insular Prince was, once you were out of the loop approaching P on subject might have resulted in a slammed door in the face.

Hear me out here. I know that one assistant stated that "everyone knew", but I imagine the only ones who knew the specifics of what he was talking, how much, when, where he was getting it, etc. were the doctors on tours, possibly direct assistants (but not necessarily--they may have only known he was taking out petty cash, acting loopy or suspicious and asking for "doctors") and drug suppliers. Doctors aren't allowed to talk. Drug dealers won't talk. The rest were probably afraid to ask about it too specifically when they worked for Prince (fear of firings, fear of being giving the runaround, helpless because Prince was evasive). When Kirk called some of them, they might have been vague because they couldn't pinpoint exactly how his problem was manifesting itself. It sounds like he asked the wrong people. I am assuming they were fearful whilst working for Prince to ask about it so therefore useless when asked later by Kirk.

[Edited 7/30/18 21:07pm]

No skipper, KJ reached out to others for help. He didn't reach out to them to see where Prince was getting his supply at, he reached out to them for help and advise to get Prince help.

[Edited 7/31/18 8:00am]

Mayte also said she thought about going to Paisley Park, I think it was in January when someone told her that he wasn't doing well and when she wanted to know more about it "they" back pedaled and wouldn't give her more infos. And then she thought of going to Paisley Park and she said she thought when was the best time to go, during the week on the weekend. Should she go with Gia or without her, should she wait until summer?

I think she wasn't sure if Prince wanted to see her and that probably was part of her thought process. She also said in one Interview that she too, regrets not going to Paisley Park.

Now I don't know if she's sincere 'cause I don't know her personally, but that's what she said about that.

SkipperLove said:

If you mean to come over and help, well, they weren't working for Prince any more. They might have thought PRince would slam the door in their face or evade them like crazy since they were no longer in the loop. Prince didn't want anybody's help, it seems. Back to Morris Hayes, he said something about thinking he wouldn't be able to do much good because he was out of the loop but he said he felt guilt afterwards because he didn't at least give it a shot. PLus, P died rather quickly and I don't think anyone suspected he would die so quickly after that close call even if it had become a troubling situation.. Maybe some people didn't care, but that's not what Kirk said. He said they were 'scared' and intimidated.

PennyPurple said:

No skipper, KJ reached out to others for help. He didn't reach out to them to see where Prince was getting his supply at, he reached out to them for help and advise to get Prince help.

muchtoofast said:

There is no evidence that she is a drug mule and I think we should stop with that discussion. Sorry my defense of her was so hard to understand

precioux said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

SkipperLove said:

If you mean to come over and help, well, they weren't working for Prince any more. They might have thought PRince would slam the door in their face or evade them like crazy since they were no longer in the loop. Prince didn't want anybody's help, it seems. Back to Morris Hayes, he said something about thinking he wouldn't be able to do much good because he was out of the loop but he said he felt guilt afterwards because he didn't at least give it a shot. PLus, P died rather quickly and I don't think anyone suspected he would die so quickly after that close call even if it had become a troubling situation.. Maybe some people didn't care, but that's not what Kirk said. He said they were 'scared' and intimidated.

If you mean just advice, my statement still stands that unless they knew the specifics of P's problem (other than "I think he was on something when I knew him") what advice could they give? What if its bad advice or advice that get's Kirk fired and makes prince even more evasive? This might have been what some of the former associates were thinking.

[Edited 7/31/18 8:00am]

KJ reached out to them for advice, not to come to PP. Probably advice for Kirk himself, to help KJ know how to help Prince.

Krystalkisses said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Testosterone supplements aren't just used for libido. It's a strength & muscle tone enhancer also used by body builders. Which I'm sure helped keep Prince in TIP TOP shape when he was on the W2A tour after being trained by KJ.

Was KJ Prince's trainer? I have to say Prince looked amazing during W2A. It was kinda confusing because how does one workout while abusing painkillers?

Do you think people who are on opioids are bedridden? You can still be fully functional while on opioids. More than likely Prince built up a tolerance to them, that's why they need more and more.

PennyPurple said:

SkipperLove said:

If you mean to come over and help, well, they weren't working for Prince any more. They might have thought PRince would slam the door in their face or evade them like crazy since they were no longer in the loop. Prince didn't want anybody's help, it seems. Back to Morris Hayes, he said something about thinking he wouldn't be able to do much good because he was out of the loop but he said he felt guilt afterwards because he didn't at least give it a shot. PLus, P died rather quickly and I don't think anyone suspected he would die so quickly after that close call even if it had become a troubling situation.. Maybe some people didn't care, but that's not what Kirk said. He said they were 'scared' and intimidated.

If you mean just advice, my statement still stands that unless they knew the specifics of P's problem (other than "I think he was on something when I knew him") what advice could they give? What if its bad advice or advice that get's Kirk fired and makes prince even more evasive? This might have been what some of the former associates were thinking.

[Edited 7/31/18 8:00am]

KJ reached out to them for advice, not to come to PP. Probably advice for Kirk himself, to help KJ know how to help Prince.

Wow and they didn't cooperate

ThatWhiteDude said:

PennyPurple said:

KJ reached out to them for advice, not to come to PP. Probably advice for Kirk himself, to help KJ know how to help Prince.

Wow and they didn't cooperate

Not really, KJ told LE that they might be scared, he couldn't understand why he couldn't get anybody to help.

PennyPurple said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Wow and they didn't cooperate

Not really, KJ told LE that they might be scared, he couldn't understand why he couldn't get anybody to help.

I don't understand why they would be scared, I mean, Kirk could've called them to get some advice without telling Prince about it. What were they scared of?

PennyPurple said:

SkipperLove said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

PennyPurple said:

Not really, KJ told LE that they might be scared, he couldn't understand why he couldn't get anybody to help.

I don't understand why they would be scared, I mean, Kirk could've called them to get some advice without telling Prince about it. What were they scared of?

Prince. Fear of being sued.

PennyPurple said:

Camileyun said:

SkipperLove said:

I don't think anything was that important in L.A. I think PRince and Judith were more concerned with damage control because not showing up would send up a red flag. I think she should have stayed as well. I am just trying to humanize the decision rather than assume the worst. The 50/50 comment was made in retrospect, I believe, and her attempt to decipher some of his cryptic statements. By the time, she left maybe he was feeding a line of shit about wanting to get better and that what would make him feel better is if she left and took care of damage control. (Remember he also told her to text about how good his show was that night so people thought everything was cool.) I am guessing she stayed with him for about 15-18 hours after the plane was taken down. Yes, it was technically the same day but it wasn't like it was two hours later. Maybe she thought Kirk would look after him and she would keep calling him/emailing him while she was away and was too much of a wimp to watch him suffer. Hell, maybe he was irate and yelling for her to leave. I imagine it was complicated. Bad decision but complicated.

I totally hear what you're saying, I'm just not buying all of it. Instead of blindly following the master's orders, she could have told him she'd lie for him under the condition she stayed. Tell the press her boyfriend has a flu so bad he had to make an emergency landing, so I'm doing the right thing by staying with him. To be honest, at that point, people were on to him, people were suspecting all sorts of things (even before the plane landing). The days of damage control were quickly coming to an end. Judith was all but convinced he was dead a few short hours before she left and he actually was a few short days later. "Bad decision" is an understatement!

Prince was very powerful and he was litigious. He scared alot of people. I get the feeling Judith was iin shock and was likely ambivalent about leaving him. Also, he had a lot of "baggage" We are asking alot of her to step in and deal with all of that when she knew him for a fairly short amount of time. He needed a professional team of doctors, therapists, likely hospitalization to undergo proper detox.

She, like any of us, was not equipped for this nightmare.

[Edited 7/31/18 9:20am]

PennyPurple said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Mine too. I'm not really disappointed in Prince. I don't know how it feels to be addicted to something, so I don't have the right to judge people who are. I'm disappointed in how they handled this investigation.

I'm disappointed in the investigation, I'm disappointed with the people around him, and I'm disappointed with the ASSociates and what they are doing now. I'm disappointed in people saying I know what happened, but I'm not telling, but how can they know what happened, and still ride the purple gravy train, you know the people that KJ tried to reach out to, so he could get some help or ideas what to do for Prince, the people who stayed silent that last week when they were being reached out to?

My comment about disappointed is for the investigation and LE in general. It is not about Prince at all. Just wanted to clarify that.

SkipperLove said:

Read my revised response..I don't think its that simple. I avoid conspiracy theories..that's where we differ--if I think something more complex, conflicting and emotional is at play where people's motives are concerned. I think the woman was extremely conflicted the week of his death--stuck between doing what he wanted (protecting his privacy, continuing to work on their project, doing damage control) and doing what she suspected he might have needed (thus the reason for phone calls and constant emails that week after she left) . I think he sent mixed signals that week--possibly going back and forth between strength/optimism and depression/vulnerability. I think she and Sheila want to protect his image not just due to their own self interest but because they know that certain more religious and sensitive fans might find it hard to take that P might have done this to himself on purpose (or at least stopped caring how the chips fell). I am not sure he would want us to know that either. Indecisiveness often leads to tragedy..just ask Hamlet. The people around Prince were too damn indecisive..

che777x said:

She may have. She was interviewed by People Magazine and the New York Times within two months following his passing when she described the relationship as "very intense ... "

https://people.com/celebrity/princes-protegee-judith-hill-opens-up-about-their-relationship/

[Edited 7/30/18 22:21pm]

i think 99 percent was this^^^. Per her investigation interview P even requested her not to tell

anyone about the moline incident, it would be easy to convince oneself that he would want it that

way about it post mortum.

The way the Demi Lovato overdose/Narcan shot story is playing out is heartbreaking and instructive. One week after, she's still in a hospital suffering from extreme nausea and a high fever which has been described as a reaction to Narcan clearing her system of an opoid tolerance/addiction. So it seems that even under ideal circumstances, i.e. Prince wanting to check into a rehab facility to get better (which I personally think he was never going to do) he STILL might have needed specialized, intensive MEDICAL help. He probably needed this kind of medical help for years which he never got. I think he just kept upping his doses to keep on, keeping on and he must have known the abyss was straight ahead. Dead ahead. That's what Tyka knew from her own journey as an addict.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

muchtoofast said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Duh:1) because it was Prince.....2) and she had to fly into Minnie from LA every two weeks to get her own basic needs met.????????....who knew there were no more functioning men left in LA???...or dildos! Or other women??? ETC. Jeeeze....I have to spell everything out here...

[Edited 7/30/18 19:50pm]

You have completely misunderstood what I said. She stayed out there with him, she didn’t fly in the drugs and immediately fly out like a drug mule would. She was his girlfriend, she said the relationship was romantic. They’d lay in bed and watch movies, two adults in bed together. Gee what could happen lol?! But if you need to make him a pathetic non-man maybe you could ask yourself why. Judith as a drug mule is ridiculously far fetched. Again, I am NOT saying he was impotent, quite the opposite in fact, he spent his free time with a good looking young woman IN PART AT LEAST so he could boff her. And that makes me happy for him. She WASN’T that dumb to go out there and waste her time with an impotent man when there are gorgeous young men in Hollywood who’d jump at the chance. She went to PP to spend time with Prince as his lover. We don’t have to try and make her a drug mule to justify the plane trips. [Edited 7/30/18 22:54pm]

if they were spending time and not having sex that speaks a lot and i could see how that could

be very intense. Perhaps if they were not romantic sexually, the last two years of his life he did

have someone there for him in a way that was loving, intense and platonic. Makes me happy for him

to think it a possibility.

Camileyun said:

Remember, she also said she was 50/50 about him being suicidal and said, ..."I think there was a lot of his statements were also like accepting that he might not make it..." Sorry, but it just blows me away that she left. What was so important in LA? I don't care what he said to her. How about "No, I'm not leaving you alone after what happened today!!" [Edited 7/31/18 0:18am]

didnt he say to some one that he Knew JH was worried. maybe he couldn't handle her worry.

and if he died and she had been there that would be worse for her or anyone else. can you imagine

that blow back. thank goodness she wasnt there for part 2.

SkipperLove said:

I don't think anything was that important in L.A. I think PRince and Judith were more concerned with damage control because not showing up would send up a red flag. I think she should have stayed as well. I am just trying to humanize the decision rather than assume the worst. The 50/50 comment was made in retrospect, I believe, and her attempt to decipher some of his cryptic statements. By the time, she left maybe he was feeding a line of shit about wanting to get better and that what would make him feel better is if she left and took care of damage control. (Remember he also told her to text about how good his show was that night so people thought everything was cool.) I am guessing she stayed with him for about 15-18 hours after the plane was taken down. Yes, it was technically the same day but it wasn't like it was two hours later. Maybe she thought Kirk would look after him and she would keep calling him/emailing him while she was away and was too much of a wimp to watch him suffer. Hell, maybe he was irate and yelling for her to leave. I imagine it was complicated. Bad decision but complicated.

Camileyun said:

Remember, she also said she was 50/50 about him being suicidal and said, ..."I think there was a lot of his statements were also like accepting that he might not make it..." Sorry, but it just blows me away that she left. What was so important in LA? I don't care what he said to her. How about "No, I'm not leaving you alone after what happened today!!" [Edited 7/31/18 0:18am]

Totally agree. Maturity, selflessness, and ... in that statement.

Prince couldn't sue anonymous people. He wouldn't necessarily know who Kirk talked to. Maybe there were a few people who knew such specific details that after the advice was taken, Prince would be able to pinpoint who talked. But he had no case for litigation.I can't imagine NDA's applying to this situation. Kirk was within his organization. The information given from former associates from coming into the organization (ie Kirk) , not leaking outward (ie the press). Even if they didnt' like Prince or care what happened to him, they could have helped Kirk out for Kirk's sake. So, I go back to the lack of specific knowledge due to the fear/intimidation originating during the days they were under his employment. This would make it hard for them to give advice after the fact because it would be based on non-specifics. Maybe, Kirk took their lack of concrete advice as fear/intimidation. Also another thought, if they were thinking that they would get to work with Prince again so therefore didn't want to piss him off, then that would mean they weren't thinking his death was going to happen right away. If you believe Mayte, she comtemplated visiting P in the summer. Obviously, she thought he was doing poorly but not so poorly he wouldn't make through APril.

PennyPurple said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

I don't understand why they would be scared, I mean, Kirk could've called them to get some advice without telling Prince about it. What were they scared of?

Prince. Fear of being sued.

[Edited 7/31/18 9:58am]

purplefam99 said:

SkipperLove said:

If that stuff took people out as quickly as I suspect it did, he still could have died. If she was in another part of the building sleeping for example. Remember how quickly they had to land that plane. In the plane, she was sitting right across from him. Paisley Park is a big facility. People should have locked the fucker in a room. But he could have called the police to get them out. Police can't look through his stuff without a warrant, but I assume they can remove guests who refuse to leave or who are attempting to kidnap the man so to speak. I wish people could have kidnapped him though. Maybe if he was withdrawing to a greater extent, it would have been possible. But his withdrawal symptoms (as apparent by tape of him walking into shulbarg's office) were obviously more subtle (and softened by other drug usage) so it was less clear cut.

Camileyun said:

purplefam99 said:

didnt he say to some one that he Knew JH was worried. maybe he couldn't handle her worry.

and if he died and she had been there that would be worse for her or anyone else. can you imagine

that blow back. thank goodness she wasnt there for part 2.

That's for sure! But if she was there, in all likely he wouldn't have died (she would've called for help).