nelcp777 said:

Man, my head hurts. No wonder LE gave up.

nelcp777 said:

Man, my head hurts. No wonder LE gave up.

It's almost as if they just didn't complete the investigation. IMO they didn't interview people that should've been interviewed.

PennyPurple said:

nelcp777 said:

Man, my head hurts. No wonder LE gave up.

It's almost as if they just didn't complete the investigation. IMO they didn't interview people that should've been interviewed.

Yes. I am so disappointed since the files have been released. This investigation is a mess.

ThatWhiteDude said:

PennyPurple said:

It's almost as if they just didn't complete the investigation. IMO they didn't interview people that should've been interviewed.

Yes. I am so disappointed since the files have been released. This investigation is a mess.

It is a huge mess.

PennyPurple said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Yes. I am so disappointed since the files have been released. This investigation is a mess.

It is a huge mess.

A mess and disappointing. Prince still has my love and respect, regardless.

nelcp777 said:

PennyPurple said:

It is a huge mess.

A mess and disappointing. Prince still has my love and respect, regardless.

Mine too. I'm not really disappointed in Prince. I don't know how it feels to be addicted to something, so I don't have the right to judge people who are. I'm disappointed in how they handled this investigation.

Camileyun said:

Who is LE? (I don’t recall reading a Carver County investigator interview Lala Escarzega.)

ThatWhiteDude said:

nelcp777 said:

A mess and disappointing. Prince still has my love and respect, regardless.

Mine too. I'm not really disappointed in Prince. I don't know how it feels to be addicted to something, so I don't have the right to judge people who are. I'm disappointed in how they handled this investigation.

I'm disappointed in the investigation, I'm disappointed with the people around him, and I'm disappointed with the ASSociates and what they are doing now. I'm disappointed in people saying I know what happened, but I'm not telling, but how can they know what happened, and still ride the purple gravy train, you know the people that KJ tried to reach out to, so he could get some help or ideas what to do for Prince, the people who stayed silent that last week when they were being reached out to?

206Michelle said:

Camileyun said:

In the transcript, when LE tells her that P got the pills from somewhere and that they are seeking the truth so this doesn't happen to anyone else, her response is: "Yeah, I wish I had..I wish I had more, I don't..I can't imagine where he got it. I..I really, it couldn't have been Kirk or Meron, it's like I don't know who else, I mean unless he had like a..I mean but then he would have to email the person like I don't even know." "Cause it's like how else is he going to get a hold, unless you know, cause he would phone..the phone, maybe it was a phone number, but um I have no idea." Btw, the LE had not mentioned Kirk or Meron during this part of the questioning. How about a simple "I have no idea where he got this stuff"?!!

Who is LE? (I don’t recall reading a Carver County investigator interview Lala Escarzega.)

Law Enforcement.

206Michelle said:

Law ?Enforcement.



Opioids CAN affect libido is what I read, not ALWAYS. Judith was not his drug mule, that makes no sense in a human behavior aspect. Why would a young beautiful woman live in some hotel in a rather dull town to spend time with a man who can’t even perform sexually? We’re getting into some sexist thinking now implying she has no needs and is there solely to satisfy his needs. On the one hand she’s “hiding in plain sight” brilliant and on the other too dumb to get her own basic needs met?

PennyPurple said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Mine too. I'm not really disappointed in Prince. I don't know how it feels to be addicted to something, so I don't have the right to judge people who are. I'm disappointed in how they handled this investigation.

I'm disappointed in the investigation, I'm disappointed with the people around him, and I'm disappointed with the ASSociates and what they are doing now. I'm disappointed in people saying I know what happened, but I'm not telling, but how can they know what happened, and still ride the purple gravy train, you know the people that KJ tried to reach out to, so he could get some help or ideas what to do for Prince, the people who stayed silent that last week when they were being reached out to?

Who were the people KJ tried to reach out to? I think I missed that one.

muchtoofast said:

206Michelle said:

Who is LE? (I don’t recall reading a Carver County investigator interview Lala Escarzega.)

Law ?Enforcement. Opioids CAN affect libido is what I read, not ALWAYS. Judith was not his drug mule, that makes no sense in a human behavior aspect. Why would a young beautiful woman live in some hotel in a rather dull town to spend time with a man who can’t even perform sexually? We’re getting into some sexist thinking now implying she has no needs and is there solely to satisfy his needs. On the one hand she’s “hiding in plain sight” brilliant and on the other too dumb to get her own basic needs met?

Duh:1) because it was Prince.....2) and she had to fly into Minnie from LA every two weeks to get her own basic needs met.????????....who knew there were no more functioning men left in LA???...or dildos! Or other women??? ETC. Jeeeze....I have to spell everything out here...

[Edited 7/30/18 19:50pm]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Bodhitheblackdog, !

ThatWhiteDude said:

PennyPurple said:

I'm disappointed in the investigation, I'm disappointed with the people around him, and I'm disappointed with the ASSociates and what they are doing now. I'm disappointed in people saying I know what happened, but I'm not telling, but how can they know what happened, and still ride the purple gravy train, you know the people that KJ tried to reach out to, so he could get some help or ideas what to do for Prince, the people who stayed silent that last week when they were being reached out to?

Who were the people KJ tried to reach out to? I think I missed that one.

It was in his statement, I don't think he gave names, he was making all kinds of phone calls to past people, who he thought would know what to do, or how to proceed. He told the detective that they wouldn't say anything or very little, like they were scared to say something.

PennyPurple said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Who were the people KJ tried to reach out to? I think I missed that one.

It was in his statement, I don't think he gave names, he was making all kinds of phone calls to past people, who he thought would know what to do, or how to proceed. He told the detective that they wouldn't say anything or very little, like they were scared to say something.

That is a damn shame

ThatWhiteDude said:

PennyPurple said:

It was in his statement, I don't think he gave names, he was making all kinds of phone calls to past people, who he thought would know what to do, or how to proceed. He told the detective that they wouldn't say anything or very little, like they were scared to say something.

That is a damn shame

It's sad.

206Michelle said:

Thanx Bodhi for this. I feel it is perfectly healthy and normal to have this thread and similar ones up and active. We all need to talk to one another and not be afraid. We are not hurting any one. And of course there are other threads to jump into if anyone is not feeling this one.

PennyPurple said:

Thank you!

Camileyun said:

Testosterone also has anti-aging properties since testosterone levels decrease in men as they age.

I thought KJ was talking about folks like Larry Graham, still kind of in his circle. After all, if we are talking about former employees talking privately to a current employee, Prince can't fire the former employees again and he probably wouldn't know who said what. Plus, NDA's don't cover private conversations. Maybe they really didn't entirely understand the full complexity of his problem so therefore didn't want to speculate too much or give bad advice based on prior experience. Maybe they didn't want to make their enabling look bad..but like I said, its a private conversation. I think he talked to Morris Hayes. Hayes said he needed to get a handle on it and soon, and that if P's behavior was getting really weird than probably it had gotten pretty serious. But like I said, I am not sure people thought he would die that week and knowing how evasive and insular Prince was, once you were out of the loop approaching P on subject might have resulted in a slammed door in the face.

Hear me out here. I know that one assistant stated that "everyone knew", but I imagine the only ones who knew the specifics of what he was talking, how much, when, where he was getting it, etc. were the doctors on tours, possibly direct assistants (but not necessarily--they may have only known he was taking out petty cash, acting loopy or suspicious and asking for "doctors") and drug suppliers. Doctors aren't allowed to talk. Drug dealers won't talk. The rest were probably afraid to ask about it too specifically when they worked for Prince (fear of firings, fear of being giving the runaround, helpless because Prince was evasive). When Kirk called some of them, they might have been vague because they couldn't pinpoint exactly how his problem was manifesting itself. It sounds like he asked the wrong people. I am assuming they were fearful whilst working for Prince to ask about it so therefore useless when asked later by Kirk.

PennyPurple said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Who were the people KJ tried to reach out to? I think I missed that one.

It was in his statement, I don't think he gave names, he was making all kinds of phone calls to past people, who he thought would know what to do, or how to proceed. He told the detective that they wouldn't say anything or very little, like they were scared to say something.

[Edited 7/30/18 21:07pm]

muchtoofast said:

206Michelle said:

Who is LE? (I don’t recall reading a Carver County investigator interview Lala Escarzega.)

Law ?Enforcement. Opioids CAN affect libido is what I read, not ALWAYS. Judith was not his drug mule, that makes no sense in a human behavior aspect. Why would a young beautiful woman live in some hotel in a rather dull town to spend time with a man who can’t even perform sexually? We’re getting into some sexist thinking now implying she has no needs and is there solely to satisfy his needs. On the one hand she’s “hiding in plain sight” brilliant and on the other too dumb to get her own basic needs met?

Sometimes it’s not what is going on, but what people think is going on.

In this protégé relationship, JH had more to lose than most previous protégés. She was older. She was already at her prime or over it. Look at all the publicity she received just because she happened to be on the plane and the publicity she received when he passed. People wondering whether she was indeed the special girlfriend and why he shared with her his personal out of this world experience and his weaknesses, etc., that she in turn broadcast to the world. Before the plane incident, she was in his shadow, as it looked.

She is still in his shadow..was then and still is. But the idea that she was heavy into promotion of her album in June is not entirely accurate. THe article states her credentials and mentions the previous album with P (to which she gives him lots of credit.) In fact, if you read the interview again, she never confirms a romantic relationship..only an intense relationship with love. She said the same thing in her facebook page in May... This is what she said in the NYT interview..

Asked if their connection was romantic, Ms. Hill said only: “There was a very intense relationship. I deeply cared for him.” In a conversation not long before he died, Ms. Hill said, “He told me that he loved me and that he would always be there for me.”

Keep in mind that Prince once told LIsa in a song that he loved her..They obviously were never seriously romantic. P's relationships were vague and complex and perhaps hard to label. Mentor and mentoree relationships can be very intense, intimate, even confusing--and often lead to romantic relationships down the line especially in Prince's world.

Another point I want to make..perhaps, Judith's NYT interview was to assure the public that people were trying to help Prince but also to make the public believe that Prince himself was trying to help himself completely and in every way. so that there are no suspicions of intentional overdose by P.

She mentioned nothing about his 50/50 suicidal tendencies, didn't discuss his depression or his hands hurting, his evasiveness at the hospital wasn't mentioned, said he wanted to get better and was really trying, and she focused on his love of Nemo movies, and his spirituality. Its probably crap or at least cherry picked to make it sound like Prince wasn't going back and forth between depression and optimism. I still believe that it was an attempt to cover up suicide or a retroactive suspicion of it.....Here's an interesting thing she let slip in her facebook page... that last line, I originally thought, was just about loss, but now I think it was about Prince's stubborn decision to find his "way back home". Hell, a more cynical person could attest that she painted a sunnier picture in the article so that people wouldn't yell at her for abandoning him in his time of need. But who knows?? Maybe she just took him at his word that he was okay but wasn't entirely convinced. Maybe he was confusing the shit out of her. He tended to do that to people.

I wish I could just leave it at that but I'm afraid my burden is deeply layered. Its very isolating to have to carry so much and be afraid to say anything. I wish it was as simple as "he inspired me" and "I'm mourning his loss". In the past, I've been good at saying the right thing. I hate being misquoted in the press. But right now I got nothing cute to say. My heart rages because I loved him so much and I just wanted him to be truly happy.

Prince, I've put up with a lot of things, but you don't get to do this one. You don't get to die! That's crossing the line.

che777x said:

muchtoofast said:

206Michelle said: Law ?Enforcement. Opioids CAN affect libido is what I read, not ALWAYS. Judith was not his drug mule, that makes no sense in a human behavior aspect. Why would a young beautiful woman live in some hotel in a rather dull town to spend time with a man who can’t even perform sexually? We’re getting into some sexist thinking now implying she has no needs and is there solely to satisfy his needs. On the one hand she’s “hiding in plain sight” brilliant and on the other too dumb to get her own basic needs met?

Sometimes it’s not what is going on, but what people think is going on.

In this protégé relationship, JH had more to lose than most previous protégés. She was older. She was already at her prime or over it. Look at all the publicity she received just because she happened to be on the plane and the publicity she received when he passed. People wondering whether she was indeed the special girlfriend and why he shared with her his personal out of this world experience and his weaknesses, etc., that she in turn broadcast to the world. Before the plane incident, she was in his shadow, as it looked.

[Edited 7/30/18 21:48pm]

[Edited 7/30/18 22:24pm]

SkipperLove said:

She is still in his shadow..was then and still is. Did she think that telling cops about their status in what she probably assumed was a private police interview would help her career?

che777x said:

Sometimes it’s not what is going on, but what people think is going on.

In this protégé relationship, JH had more to lose than most previous protégés. She was older. She was already at her prime or over it. Look at all the publicity she received just because she happened to be on the plane and the publicity she received when he passed. People wondering whether she was indeed the special girlfriend and why he shared with her his personal out of this world experience and his weaknesses, etc., that she in turn broadcast to the world. Before the plane incident, she was in his shadow, as it looked.

She may have. She was interviewed by People Magazine and the New York Times within two months following his passing when she described the relationship as "very intense ... "

https://people.com/celebrity/princes-protegee-judith-hill-opens-up-about-their-relationship/

Read my revised response..I don't think its that simple. I avoid conspiracy theories..that's where we differ--if I think something more complex, conflicting and emotional is at play where people's motives are concerned. I think the woman was extremely conflicted the week of his death--stuck between doing what he wanted (protecting his privacy, continuing to work on their project, doing damage control) and doing what she suspected he might have needed (thus the reason for phone calls and constant emails that week after she left) . I think he sent mixed signals that week--possibly going back and forth between strength/optimism and depression/vulnerability. I think she and Sheila want to protect his image not just due to their own self interest but because they know that certain more religious and sensitive fans might find it hard to take that P might have done this to himself on purpose (or at least stopped caring how the chips fell). I am not sure he would want us to know that either. Indecisiveness often leads to tragedy..just ask Hamlet. The people around Prince were too damn indecisive..

che777x said:

SkipperLove said:

She is still in his shadow..was then and still is. Did she think that telling cops about their status in what she probably assumed was a private police interview would help her career?

She may have. She was interviewed by People Magazine and the New York Times within two months following his passing when she described the relationship as "very intense ... "

https://people.com/celebrity/princes-protegee-judith-hill-opens-up-about-their-relationship/

[Edited 7/30/18 22:21pm]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

You have completely misunderstood what I said. She stayed out there with him, she didn’t fly in the drugs and immediately fly out like a drug mule would. She was his girlfriend, she said the relationship was romantic. They’d lay in bed and watch movies, two adults in bed together. Gee what could happen lol?! But if you need to make him a pathetic non-man maybe you could ask yourself why. Judith as a drug mule is ridiculously far fetched.

Again, I am NOT saying he was impotent, quite the opposite in fact, he spent his free time with a good looking young woman IN PART AT LEAST so he could boff her. And that makes me happy for him.

She WASN’T that dumb to go out there and waste her time with an impotent man when there are gorgeous young men in Hollywood who’d jump at the chance. She went to PP to spend time with Prince as his lover. We don’t have to try and make her a drug mule to justify the plane trips.
[Edited 7/30/18 22:54pm]

She went out to PP because he was mentoring her. It might have led to a private sexual/romantic relationship or was on its way to becoming that. She was vague in interviews. She called it romantic to the cops but maybe she didn't know how to explain the complex, limbo-like nature of their relationship. She did sleep in a hotel that night after his overdose, but we dont know why. She supposedly didn't know what side of the bed he slept on..but in her defense, it was a high stress moment and maybe she was just having a brain fart about her left and right. She did eventually state that he slept next to his little side table...I believe.

muchtoofast said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Duh:1) because it was Prince.....2) and she had to fly into Minnie from LA every two weeks to get her own basic needs met.????????....who knew there were no more functioning men left in LA???...or dildos! Or other women??? ETC. Jeeeze....I have to spell everything out here...

[Edited 7/30/18 19:50pm]

You have completely misunderstood what I said. She stayed out there with him, she didn’t fly in the drugs and immediately fly out like a drug mule would. She was his girlfriend, she said the relationship was romantic. They’d lay in bed and watch movies, two adults in bed together. Gee what could happen lol?! But if you need to make him a pathetic non-man maybe you could ask yourself why. Judith as a drug mule is ridiculously far fetched. Again, I am NOT saying he was impotent, quite the opposite in fact, he spent his free time with a good looking young woman IN PART AT LEAST so he could boff her. And that makes me happy for him. She WASN’T that dumb to go out there and waste her time with an impotent man when there are gorgeous young men in Hollywood who’d jump at the chance. She went to PP to spend time with Prince as his lover. We don’t have to try and make her a drug mule to justify the plane trips. [Edited 7/30/18 22:54pm]

SkipperLove said:

Actually, they watched movies and her flight was later that evening. She did not stay at the hotel. So, technically, the day he od'd, she left town and never saw him again.
[Edited 7/30/18 23:55pm]

That's right. I forgot about that. I imagine the flight was already booked, the arrangments were already made for her schedule the next day before the Molene incident. at 1:17 am.. Imagine if she didn't show up for those scheduled events.. That would send up a red flag to the press/industry that Prince's mentoree cancelled events that were already planned on the day after his plane was taken down due to the "flu"..it was damage control and Prince probably encouraged it (Even though emotionally he did state that maybe she should have stayed longer, I imagine he still told her to go.) Mixed messages probably. The fact she brought up his statement about maybe her staying longer to the cops might be some guilt and indicative of her regret. She didn't "see" him but they did communicate.

[Edited 7/30/18 23:59pm]

[Edited 7/31/18 0:03am]

Remember, she also said she was 50/50 about him being suicidal and said, ..."I think there was a lot of his statements were also like accepting that he might not make it..."
Sorry, but it just blows me away that she left. What was so important in LA? I don't care what he said to her. How about "No, I'm not leaving you alone after what happened today!!"
[Edited 7/31/18 0:18am]

I don't think anything was that important in L.A. I think PRince and Judith were more concerned with damage control because not showing up would send up a red flag. I think she should have stayed as well. I am just trying to humanize the decision rather than assume the worst. The 50/50 comment was made in retrospect, I believe, and her attempt to decipher some of his cryptic statements. By the time, she left maybe he was feeding a line of shit about wanting to get better and that what would make him feel better is if she left and took care of damage control. (Remember he also told her to text about how good his show was that night so people thought everything was cool.) I am guessing she stayed with him for about 15-18 hours after the plane was taken down. Yes, it was technically the same day but it wasn't like it was two hours later. Maybe she thought Kirk would look after him and she would keep calling him/emailing him while she was away and was too much of a wimp to watch him suffer. Hell, maybe he was irate and yelling for her to leave. I imagine it was complicated. Bad decision but complicated.

Camileyun said:

Remember, she also said she was 50/50 about him being suicidal and said, ..."I think there was a lot of his statements were also like accepting that he might not make it..." Sorry, but it just blows me away that she left. What was so important in LA? I don't care what he said to her. How about "No, I'm not leaving you alone after what happened today!!" [Edited 7/31/18 0:18am]