IamBryan said:

rogifan said:

Why has this thread turned into another drug thread. Sigh.

we will never know the "demons" of Prince and what he was dealing with... that's true... it is IMO... he had a depedancy/addiction to pain killers... that is true.... He had unprescribed drugs in his home and in his system when they found him...that is true... Do you really think Prince woke up on 4.21 and said hmmm... i wonder what's in the pill bottle?? Well, i dont know...so I will just take it and see what happens... he knew what it was and what he was doing... sadly, no one could help him in time and we are left to deal with this and can only ask...why?

All of the info you just typed came from unknown sources. Whatever happened to all of the percocet that he was suppose to be on? We will not know anything near the truth until the investigation is completed by the police. Not the investigation by TMZ.

joytotheworld said:

wavesofbliss said:

• when people od their eyes don't fix but they pass out/nod off.
• when people have petite seizures their eyes do fix and they may or may not pass out but there is usually "recovery period". they are usually groggy and dazed and often don't know what happened.
• she said his eyes fixed and then he fell over, i've seen this countless times in people i know who have epilepsy. anybody familiar with epilepsy will recognize this.

until we see the report from moline it's a question mark.

Yeah this! Seems to me that Tina Marie's cause of death was from a seizure not her first that occurred from a picture falling on her years ago. Having a family member that did the same blank stare and was too young for drugs...it sounds like P had a seizure.

[Edited 12/11/16 13:41pm]

Yes, people have come on this board and said this and even Dr. Drew said he did not sound like a description of an o.d. but a seizure. If the EMT has no idea what was wrong and suspected drugs they would have given him Narcon which is used on people who are non-responsive in some jurisdictions.

It is also rare apparently for people to o.d. on pain meds. Usually it is because they are mixed with alcohol or other drugs. Notice that the pills he took were a mixture of drugs.

Even if he were strung out as some of you think the pills alone would not have killed him.

laurarichardson said:

IamBryan said:

we will never know the "demons" of Prince and what he was dealing with... that's true... it is IMO... he had a depedancy/addiction to pain killers... that is true.... He had unprescribed drugs in his home and in his system when they found him...that is true... Do you really think Prince woke up on 4.21 and said hmmm... i wonder what's in the pill bottle?? Well, i dont know...so I will just take it and see what happens... he knew what it was and what he was doing... sadly, no one could help him in time and we are left to deal with this and can only ask...why?

All of the info you just typed came from unknown sources. Whatever happened to all of the percocet that he was suppose to be on? We will not know anything near the truth until the investigation is completed by the police. Not the investigation by TMZ.

may I ask what planet are you from?!?! Do u think Prince was a "one time" user?!?! Have you ever heard of media leaks? May I ask you....what do u think happened? Please don't play the I don't know card until the investigation... You won't have any facts as I dont and as I said previously... it was in my opinion... so let's hear yours...

IamBryan said:

laurarichardson said:

All of the info you just typed came from unknown sources. Whatever happened to all of the percocet that he was suppose to be on? We will not know anything near the truth until the investigation is completed by the police. Not the investigation by TMZ.

may I ask what planet are you from?!?! Do u think Prince was a "one time" user?!?! Have you ever heard of media leaks? May I ask you....what do u think happened? Please don't play the I don't know card until the investigation... You won't have any facts as I dont and as I said previously... it was in my opinion... so let's hear yours...

My opinion is all over this board about a million times. I never said he was a one-time user however please stop ignoring what 100s of people who worked with him going back 30 years to the last 4 or so have said "he was not a recreational drug user". Did all of these people get together in a meeting on April 21 to get their stories straight. Do you not understand that Estates cannot sued for defamation and that people are free to say whatever they want to say without any worries of lawsuits.

Do you think looking at his work ethic and discography even in the last couple of years that this guy was high out of his ass on pain pillls? Do you know the side effects of pain pills? Because I do from personal experience. Do not give me that he built of tolerance. All building up tolerance means is that you need more and more to get high. Tolerance does nothing about the side effects of these drugs which would get worst the more he was taking.

People lie to the media to get paid. Tabloids pay people and the mainstream media is so desparate to get people to click they just print what tabloids say these days. In addtion, I have not come across any newstories tabloid or manistream that has quoated anyone that knew Prince as a recreational user however a few have said he had pain and took pain pills.

There was even a story in the Star Tribune about reporters poking around Channansen trying to get people to talk and nobody would say anything to the reporters. Trust me these scum have been digging for dirt and we don't see any because it does not exist.

What I Think happen.

-----

This is what I think happen and some of what I am typing is based on facts that we do know. I am not going to put in all the links as you will have to goggle or use the search key on this site. As this has all been discussed a million times.

I think after his surgery in 2010 he was given a Rx for pain meds was depenedent on them and had a RX for them after the surgery was completed. I think the continued to perform and continued to have pain and started taking to many of the pills perhaps even obtaining additional pills along with his Rx.

I think somewhere along the way he may have got off the pills or lessen his dependence on them but his health stated to decline. I believe this may have stared in 2013 or 2014. I do not claim to know what other health issues he may have had but pain pills can ruin your organs overtime we already know from Dr. Fink that Prince complained about a heart murmur and according to Dr. Fink he took aspirian for that. We know Prince said he had seizures when he was young. I believe he may have been over using acetaminophen which is in pain pills and Tylenol for years.

Could have caused organ damage which can be a slow and painful decline. More pain would mean taking more pain meds.

Sometime in January he wanted to get off and starts trying to ween himself but the withdrawals are tough so he consults with a doctor ( a doctor who has no background in addiction or pain management but is listed as a critical care doctor on at least one website) He cannot get anymore pain meds Rx if he had any sort of organ damage and is still trying to ween himself. Dr. S never prescribed any controlled substances for him but other Rxs.

Prince cannot work, withdraw and deal with pain issues and realizes he needs help. While waiting to get the suboxone the next day he reaches in to the stash he has been using to ween himself with but does not realize this stash of pills is tainted with many other powerful pain meds which have been and are going to posion and kill him.

Please also take the time to listen to Adrian's interview. He spoke to Prince a few days before the Atlanta show and Prince told him he did not feel 100% but was going to see his doctor when he got back from the concert. Prince told the promoter of the Atlanta show that he was not feeling well when he left the stage but he was going to see his doctor to find out what was going on and get the all clear for more shows. Who needs to go to their doctor to be told they are on drugs? He did not know what was going on with his health because he did not realize he was taking bad stuff.

People can dismiss what Dr. Drew said about Prince possibly having a seizure and the symptoms did not sound like an O/D. I happen to respect what Dr. Drew has to say, given that he has been working with addiction/recovery most of his life. Now, I know he works for the media, so maybe he says things from time-to-time to dramatize a story, but he's an expert in his field and he knows what he is talking about. Just saying.

laurarichardson said:

IamBryan said:

may I ask what planet are you from?!?! Do u think Prince was a "one time" user?!?! Have you ever heard of media leaks? May I ask you....what do u think happened? Please don't play the I don't know card until the investigation... You won't have any facts as I dont and as I said previously... it was in my opinion... so let's hear yours...

My opinion is all over this board about a million times. I never said he was a one-time user however please stop ignoring what 100s of people who worked with him going back 30 years to the last 4 or so have said "he was not a recreational drug user". Did all of these people get together in a meeting on April 21 to get their stories straight. Do you not understand that Estates cannot sued for defamation and that people are free to say whatever they want to say without any worries of lawsuits.

Do you think looking at his work ethic and discography even in the last couple of years that this guy was high out of his ass on pain pillls? Do you know the side effects of pain pills? Because I do from personal experience. Do not give me that he built of tolerance. All building up tolerance means is that you need more and more to get high. Tolerance does nothing about the side effects of these drugs which would get worst the more he was taking.

People lie to the media to get paid. Tabloids pay people and the mainstream media is so desparate to get people to click they just print what tabloids say these days. In addtion, I have not come across any newstories tabloid or manistream that has quoated anyone that knew Prince as a recreational user however a few have said he had pain and took pain pills.

There was even a story in the Star Tribune about reporters poking around Channansen trying to get people to talk and nobody would say anything to the reporters. Trust me these scum have been digging for dirt and we don't see any because it does not exist.

What I Think happen.

-----

This is what I think happen and some of what I am typing is based on facts that we do know. I am not going to put in all the links as you will have to goggle or use the search key on this site. As this has all been discussed a million times.

I think after his surgery in 2010 he was given a Rx for pain meds was depenedent on them and had a RX for them after the surgery was completed. I think the continued to perform and continued to have pain and started taking to many of the pills perhaps even obtaining additional pills along with his Rx.

I think somewhere along the way he may have got off the pills or lessen his dependence on them but his health stated to decline. I believe this may have stared in 2013 or 2014. I do not claim to know what other health issues he may have had but pain pills can ruin your organs overtime we already know from Dr. Fink that Prince complained about a heart murmur and according to Dr. Fink he took aspirian for that. We know Prince said he had seizures when he was young. I believe he may have been over using acetaminophen which is in pain pills and Tylenol for years.

Could have caused organ damage which can be a slow and painful decline. More pain would mean taking more pain meds.

Sometime in January he wanted to get off and starts trying to ween himself but the withdrawals are tough so he consults with a doctor ( a doctor who has no background in addiction or pain management but is listed as a critical care doctor on at least one website) He cannot get anymore pain meds Rx if he had any sort of organ damage and is still trying to ween himself. Dr. S never prescribed any controlled substances for him but other Rxs.

Prince cannot work, withdraw and deal with pain issues and realizes he needs help. While waiting to get the suboxone the next day he reaches in to the stash he has been using to ween himself with but does not realize this stash of pills is tainted with many other powerful pain meds which have been and are going to posion and kill him.

Please also take the time to listen to Adrian's interview. He spoke to Prince a few days before the Atlanta show and Prince told him he did not feel 100% but was going to see his doctor when he got back from the concert. Prince told the promoter of the Atlanta show that he was not feeling well when he left the stage but he was going to see his doctor to find out what was going on and get the all clear for more shows. Who needs to go to their doctor to be told they are on drugs? He did not know what was going on with his health because he did not realize he was taking bad stuff.

.

Good points, Laura!

.

You are one of the few Orgers here that actually knows what's been going on with the investigation.

cloveringold85 said:

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Good points, Laura!

.

You are one of the few Orgers here that actually knows what's been going on with the investigation.

-- It is just my theory. I can only say for certain that we know the side effects of pain meds, we know the long term effects, we know the problems with withdrawals, and we know about organ damage and how it is a side effect of pain pills. I know with my own eyes that he looks terriable in those PR pics from Atlanta not just thin like in Australia but not even looking like himself. It could have been the withdrawals, illness or the effects of whatever he was taking but something happened between that Atlanta show and the pics of him at that Viking game in the fall were he almost looks chubby in the face.

.

Also, stress plays a big factor in one's health. I think Prince was under a lot of stress, and he just didn't want people to know. He was devastated by the loss of Denise (Vanity). He was known to often go without eating and drinking water, and that could be dangerous. He was always a skinny guy, but yes, I agree -- he did look unusually thin in his last months.

.

Prescription pills have many side effects, and his puffy face could have been one of them. It's just hard for me to believe he had the flu or a sore throat, because he sang so beautifully. It's hard to even speak when you are sick, let alone sing in front of a live audience, and sing extremely well, imo.

.

cloveringold85 said:

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said: -- It is just my theory. I can only say for certain that we know the side effects of pain meds, we know the long term effects, we know the problems with withdrawals, and we know about organ damage and how it is a side effect of pain pills. I know with my own eyes that he looks terriable in those PR pics from Atlanta not just thin like in Australia but not even looking like himself. It could have been the withdrawals, illness or the effects of whatever he was taking but something happened between that Atlanta show and the pics of him at that Viking game in the fall were he almost looks chubby in the face.

.

Also, stress plays a big factor in one's health. I think Prince was under a lot of stress, and he just didn't want people to know. He was devastated by the loss of Denise (Vanity). He was known to often go without eating and drinking water, and that could be dangerous. He was always a skinny guy, but yes, I agree -- he did look unusually thin in his last months.

.

Prescription pills have many side effects, and his puffy face could have been one of them. It's just hard for me to believe he had the flu or a sore throat, because he sang so beautifully. It's hard to even speak when you are sick, let alone sing in front of a live audience, and sing extremely well, imo.

.

Withdrawals can cause flu like issues but I question how much withdrawal he was going thru. He would have been puking and throwing up can wreak your thoat yet his voice sounds great at those shows. It is all very weird.

I've mentioned this before, but will point it out again: lidocaine was one of the drugs found in his body. Lidocaine is commonly used for numerous oral issues. I won't bore anyone nor freak anyone out with all the various things it might have been used for as that info is easily available via an internet search, but it is/can be used by vocal performers for dysphonia according to at least one Google Scholar article that I've read.

[Edited 12/19/16 11:11am]

Mumio said:

I've mentioned this before, but will point it out again: lidocaine was one of the drugs found in his body. Lidocaine is commonly used for numerous oral issues. I won't bore you nor freak you out with all the various things it might have been used for as that info is easily available via an internet search, but it is/can be used by vocal performers for dysphonia according to at least one Google Scholar article that I've read.

1) If he had dysphonia would his voice have been rough doing the tour he was on? His voice sounded great on those shows. It seems odd that this stuff was in a pill that was mislabeled and that it sometimes used for heart palpitations when Dr. Fink said that Prince had heart palpitations back in the 80s pretty strange as well. Did he know this stuff was in those pills? What are the chances he would have a mislabeled pills with substances he may have legitimately needed?

Also it appears that lidocaine is often injected into the joints for joint pain but also used to cut heroin and coke. This makes me wonder if he knew what he was taking or if someone was trying to come up with something for him to ween himself. This just makes it even stranger.

On the other hand all this info is second hand and we are now being fed so much fake news who the hell knows.

laurarichardson said:

Mumio said:

I've mentioned this before, but will point it out again: lidocaine was one of the drugs found in his body. Lidocaine is commonly used for numerous oral issues. I won't bore you nor freak you out with all the various things it might have been used for as that info is easily available via an internet search, but it is/can be used by vocal performers for dysphonia according to at least one Google Scholar article that I've read.

1) If he had dysphonia would his voice have been rough doing the tour he was on? His voice sounded great on those shows. It seems odd that this stuff was in a pill that was mislabeled and that it sometimes used for heart palpitations when Dr. Fink said that Prince had heart palpitations back in the 80s pretty strange as well. Did he know this stuff was in those pills? What are the chances he would have a mislabeled pills with substances he may have legitimately needed?

Also it appears that lidocaine is often injected into the joints for joint pain but also used to cut heroin and coke. This makes me wonder if he knew what he was taking or if someone was trying to come up with something for him to ween himself. This just makes it even stranger.

On the other hand all this info is second hand and we are now being fed so much fake news who the hell knows.

One quick question: how do you know that lidocaine isn't a legitimate prescription he was getting at the pharmacy? It's not a narcotic.

I brought lidocaine up again because there were remarks above about how wonderful his voice sounded in spite of reports of sore throats/flu issues. This drug would have produced that effect in spite of sore throats or any other oral issues going on.


ETA there are numerous types of lidocaine (xylocaine) available:

Dosage forms

Lidocaine, usually in the form of lidocaine hydrochloride, is available in various forms including:

• Injected local anesthetic (sometimes combined with epinephrine to reduce bleeding)
• Dermal patch (sometimes combined with prilocaine in a eutectic mixture)
• Intravenous injection
• Intravenous infusion
• Intraosseous infusion
• Nasal instillation/spray (combined with phenylephrine)
• Oral gel (often referred to as "viscous lidocaine" or abbreviated "lidocaine visc" or "lidocaine HCl visc" in pharmacology; used as teething gel)
• Oral liquid
• Oral and topical ointments, with and without flavoring, respectively[19][20]
• Topical gel (as with aloe vera gels that include lidocaine)[21] such as 4% lidocaine base, marketed since 1996 by ESBA Laboratories Inc.
• Topical liquid
• Lidocaine HCl 2% jelly, combined with hypromellose, to anesthetize and lubricate the urethra, etc., for inserting a catheter or instrument
• Topical patch (lidocaine 5%), marketed since 1999 in the US by Endo Pharmaceuticals[22] as "Lidoderm" - and since 2007 in the UK by Grünenthal as "Versatis".
• Over the counter patch (lidocaine 4%) since 2015.
• Topical ointment (lidocaine 5%) as a temporary reliever of discomfort associated anorectal disorders, such as hemorrhoids, and to prevent premature ejaculation marketed as an over-the-counter product in the US
• Topical aerosol spray
• Inhaled by nebulizer
• As a component of a GI cocktail used in emergency rooms
• Ophthalmic solution
• Ear drops

There's no telling what form he was using, at least not from anything I've read so far. If you've seen the direct type identified somewhere, please pass along the link. Thank you.

[Edited 12/19/16 11:26am]

Mumio said:

laurarichardson said:

1) If he had dysphonia would his voice have been rough doing the tour he was on? His voice sounded great on those shows. It seems odd that this stuff was in a pill that was mislabeled and that it sometimes used for heart palpitations when Dr. Fink said that Prince had heart palpitations back in the 80s pretty strange as well. Did he know this stuff was in those pills? What are the chances he would have a mislabeled pills with substances he may have legitimately needed?

Also it appears that lidocaine is often injected into the joints for joint pain but also used to cut heroin and coke. This makes me wonder if he knew what he was taking or if someone was trying to come up with something for him to ween himself. This just makes it even stranger.

On the other hand all this info is second hand and we are now being fed so much fake news who the hell knows.

One quick question: how do you know that lidocaine isn't a legitimate prescription he was getting at the pharmacy? It's not a narcotic.

I brought lidocaine up again because there were remarks above about how wonderful his voice sounded in spite of reports of sore throats/flu issues. This drug would have produced that effect in spite of sore throats or any other oral issues going on.

That is a good question. How do we know this stuff was in the pills he took and not the non-controlled substances he may have filled at Walgreen since we know from the search warrant that Dr. S wrote him Rxs for non-controlled substances?

laurarichardson said:

Mumio said:

One quick question: how do you know that lidocaine isn't a legitimate prescription he was getting at the pharmacy? It's not a narcotic.

I brought lidocaine up again because there were remarks above about how wonderful his voice sounded in spite of reports of sore throats/flu issues. This drug would have produced that effect in spite of sore throats or any other oral issues going on.

That is a good question. How do we know this stuff was in the pills he took and not the non-controlled substances he may have filled at Walgreen since we know from the search warrant that Dr. S wrote him Rxs for non-controlled substances?

laurarichardson, while you were responding, I was editing my post...please have a look at the revision.

Mumio said:

laurarichardson said:

1) If he had dysphonia would his voice have been rough doing the tour he was on? His voice sounded great on those shows. It seems odd that this stuff was in a pill that was mislabeled and that it sometimes used for heart palpitations when Dr. Fink said that Prince had heart palpitations back in the 80s pretty strange as well. Did he know this stuff was in those pills? What are the chances he would have a mislabeled pills with substances he may have legitimately needed?

Also it appears that lidocaine is often injected into the joints for joint pain but also used to cut heroin and coke. This makes me wonder if he knew what he was taking or if someone was trying to come up with something for him to ween himself. This just makes it even stranger.

On the other hand all this info is second hand and we are now being fed so much fake news who the hell knows.

One quick question: how do you know that lidocaine isn't a legitimate prescription he was getting at the pharmacy? It's not a narcotic.

I brought lidocaine up again because there were remarks above about how wonderful his voice sounded in spite of reports of sore throats/flu issues. This drug would have produced that effect in spite of sore throats or any other oral issues going on.


ETA there are numerous types of lidocaine (xylocaine) available:

Dosage forms

Lidocaine, usually in the form of lidocaine hydrochloride, is available in various forms including:

• Injected local anesthetic (sometimes combined with epinephrine to reduce bleeding)
• Dermal patch (sometimes combined with prilocaine in a eutectic mixture)
• Intravenous injection
• Intravenous infusion
• Intraosseous infusion
• Nasal instillation/spray (combined with phenylephrine)
• Oral gel (often referred to as "viscous lidocaine" or abbreviated "lidocaine visc" or "lidocaine HCl visc" in pharmacology; used as teething gel)
• Oral liquid
• Oral and topical ointments, with and without flavoring, respectively[19][20]
• Topical gel (as with aloe vera gels that include lidocaine)[21] such as 4% lidocaine base, marketed since 1996 by ESBA Laboratories Inc.
• Topical liquid
• Lidocaine HCl 2% jelly, combined with hypromellose, to anesthetize and lubricate the urethra, etc., for inserting a catheter or instrument
• Topical patch (lidocaine 5%), marketed since 1999 in the US by Endo Pharmaceuticals[22] as "Lidoderm" - and since 2007 in the UK by Grünenthal as "Versatis".
• Over the counter patch (lidocaine 4%) since 2015.
• Topical ointment (lidocaine 5%) as a temporary reliever of discomfort associated anorectal disorders, such as hemorrhoids, and to prevent premature ejaculation marketed as an over-the-counter product in the US
• Topical aerosol spray
• Inhaled by nebulizer
• As a component of a GI cocktail used in emergency rooms
• Ophthalmic solution
• Ear drops

There's no telling what form he was using, at least not from anything I've read so far. If you've seen the direct type identified somewhere, please pass along the link. Thank you.

[Edited 12/19/16 11:26am]

no, I have not seen the direct type mentioned. Only that unamed sources said it was found in his system. Now I will have to go back and read the news articles to see if these unammed sources said the lidocaine was in the pills they tested. This is the problem with the media putting this info out while AP and other news sources feel they may have good sources it does not mean those sources are getting all of the info correct.

Mumio said:

rogifan said:

Mumio said:

Because people are intent on derailing virtually every thread here on the org instead of confining these "theories" to the two threads already designated for that kind of conversation.

Dr Funk needs another interview with Adrian so we can get this thread back on topic again.

Are you forgeting Adrian brought up drugs in the podcast? Besides we still have people discounting what people like Adrian have to say about music projects as well as about Prince as a person.

Wasn't it Bobby Z who said Prince made some mistakes? Honestly, these people are driving me insane with a comment here and a comment there. The man is GONE! Nothing is going to harm him - nothing will ruin his reputation. Every single damn time he is mentioned, practically, in an article it mentions his death from an overdose of Fentanyl. That is out there. He wasn't a serial killer - he was a human being. Tell us the truth - not in dribs and drabs - just come out with it once and be done with it.

Where the hell am I?

rogifan said:

Mumio said:

Because people are intent on derailing virtually every thread here on the org instead of confining these "theories" to the two threads already designated for that kind of conversation.

Dr Funk needs another interview with Adrian so we can get this thread back on topic again.

Point taken.

Thing is, apparently no one has anything else to say about the "future plans" so it would be a dead thread anyhow

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

Mumio said: Dr Funk needs another interview with Adrian so we can get this thread back on topic again.

Are you forgeting Adrian brought up drugs in the podcast? Besides we still have people discounting what people like Adrian have to say about music projects as well as about Prince as a person.

Laura, please go to the "Prince's Death: Information & Theories thread. I have copied and pasted our last posts there so we can continue the discussion there.

Mumio said: