PeteSilas said:

Superconductor said:

sunset3121 said: You just can't take facts at face value and have to spin some fantasy "interpretation" that Prince knew he was dying and "prepared" Tyka for his death.

that kinda sounds like what she was saying though, but then again, like i said, she don't seem too bright and probably doesn't have the best way of saying things. It's a strange, cryptic statement as are her flat emotions, just weird. I know prince could be like that but there was a heart under it all, tyka seems really really cold.

It sounded like that to me:

.

“It was a 2 second phone call, “he’s gone”, I had been preparing for 2 years, so I knew that it was coming”

“what does that mean?”

“he said it a couple of years ago”

“what would he say?”

“what he said was “I’ve done everything that I’ve come to do” so I was crushed for about 2 years”

.

Who would be crushed because their brother said he had done everything that he had come to do? When he 'said it', you can bet he said more than that for her to be crushed and prepare for his death for 2 years - but again, you can read that how you like.

.

To determine his mindset, they would have to interview those close to him to get an idea where Prince's head was at.

I absolutely agree with this. They would have looked for history of suicide attempts and found none, looked for a note or other records that he had planned his death and found none and talked to his F+F to see if he had told them that he planned his death. There is no evidence of suicide, therefore default position is accidental. No-one can read the guys mind, they have to look for evidence. There was none.

[Edited 10/9/16 2:40am]

sunset3121 said:

PeteSilas said:

It sounded like that to me:

.

“It was a 2 second phone call, “he’s gone”, I had been preparing for 2 years, so I knew that it was coming”

“what does that mean?”

“he said it a couple of years ago”

“what would he say?”

“what he said was “I’ve done everything that I’ve come to do” so I was crushed for about 2 years”

.

Who would be crushed because their brother said he had done everything that he had come to do? When he 'said it', you can bet he said more than that for her to be crushed and prepare for his death for 2 years - but again, you can read that how you like.

.

To determine his mindset, they would have to interview those close to him to get an idea where Prince's head was at.

I absolutely agree with this. They would have looked for history of suicide attempts and found none, looked for a note or other records that he had planned his death and found none and talked to his F+F to see if he had told them that he planned his death. There is no evidence of suicide, therefore default position is accidental. No-one can read the guys mind, they have to look for evidence. There was none.

[Edited 10/9/16 2:40am]

Willful overdose to me equals suicide. And that doesn't mean he was necessarily planning it weeks ahead. But you also have to observe what tyka said in the cold light of day, that is those things quoted above. Because if all she believed was, Prince intended to retire from making pop music and the pop music scene, then why the concern? - "I was crushed". She grew up with him, so knows how he talks, and in fact talks similar, which is alluded to in a P biography (the orange snow remark). She had nearly half a year to decide how she was going to respond to the question. That's why I believe willful overdose, and that Prince knew those pills were dodgy and were pushing him close to finality.

TopazGirl said:

Superconductor said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

"...The problem is, the one fact we do know for sure (fentanyl toxicity) doesn't square with all the preponderant evidence pertinent to the surrounding circumstances. By which I mean the numerous accounts pertaining to other substances, themselves potently toxic...

...The death certificate is misleading and asks more questions than it answers. You simply can't rule out suicide. You yourself said that it made no sense, that P's death was bizarre as his life was bizarre. In other words, there's a lot we don't know. But to me, the situation taken as a whole seems to point to suicide..."

"...The autopsy report is not misleading. It is an official document. The med examiner doesn't lie. There are several boxes to tick such as natural cause, accident, suicide, homicide, The accident box is ticked. The police commissioner also said suicide is ruled out, as is foul play. Yes it makes no sense, his life and death were bizarre but that doesn't mean suicide. Yes there is a lot we don't know but it doesn't matter. Prince died from accidental OD. Accident means he didn't know, which means he didn't suicide. Suicide means intent, there is no intent in an accident, that is why it is an accident..."

"...I wanted to add to this... In order for the medical examiner to determine the OD was accidental and not suicide, they have to look at his medical history as well his frame of mind at the time. So, for example, if he had a terminal disease and couldn't take it anymore and decided to take himself out like it is being suggested, then by looking at his current health, they could determine if he had something going on that would give cause to believe he might have wanted to end it all. However, they determined his death was accidental..."

...To determine his mindset, they would have to interview those close to him to get an idea where Prince's head was at. For example, they could have asked those close to him if Prince was in such a bad state that he would take his own life. Or, they could have asked questions like if they thought he was depressed, or if they thought he would have any reason to take his own life, etc. However, after all of this, they determined his death was accidental...

...The Carver County sheriff had said at the time that they would be interviewing people close to Prince. The medical examiner uses the police reports as well as a source of information. I would think they had to have asked those close to him what Prince's mindset was at the time to be sure..."

Thank you TopazGirl! That is very insightful

People need to read — {and reread} —TopazGirl's response slowly and outloud.

Do yourselves a favor, people. Reread TopazGirl's response as many times as it takes you until it makes sense.

You make perfect sense to me, TopazGirl. Posts like yours — {and disch's, and Superconductor's, and sonshine's, and others whose handles slip my mind right now} — restore my faith in the idea that at least a minority of Prince fans are capable of logical thinking

phatphuk said:

TopazGirl said:

by looking at his current health, they could determine if he had something going on that would give cause to believe he might have wanted to end it all. However, they determined his death was accidental..."

they could have asked questions like if they thought he was depressed, or if they thought he would have any reason to take his own life, etc. However, after all of this, they determined his death was accidental...

Thank you TopazGirl! That is very insightful

People need to read — {and reread} —TopazGirl's response slowly and outloud.

Do yourselves a favor, people. Reread TopazGirl's response as many times as it takes you until it makes sense.

You make perfect sense to me, TopazGirl. Posts like yours — {and disch's, and Superconductor's, and sonshine's, and others whose handles slip my mind right now} — restore my faith in the idea that at least a minority of Prince fans are capable of logical thinking

However, TopazGirls statements overstate the case. Having 'a cause to believe he might' or being depressed does not prove anything. They would need more than that.

Dibblekins said:

disch said:

We've seen the report signed by the medical examiner, Dr. A. Quinn Strobl, that lists the conclusions of her death investigation, based on the autopsy that she conducted (as noted by the Yes on the Autopsy Conducted line, above the Manner checkboxes). This includes her determination of the manner and cause of death. The full autopsy would not list a different manner and cause of death. (We've also seen Prince's separate death certificate, which takes much of its info from ME's autopsy conclusions.)

-

I sent an email directly to the ME's office a while back asking about "Other significant conditions line" that says: “na.” The office replied: “All other important diseases, conditions, or risk factors that were present at the time of death or pre-existed in the deceased and that may have contributed to the death or event of death (if a traumatic or toxic death) may be listed in the other significant conditions section.”

.

And there is your key phrase - MAY be listed. Not WILL be listed - but MAY - in other words, it is up to the discretion of the medical examiner, depending on whether, in his / her view, the one medication was present in sufficient quantity to cause death in and of itself.

.

See my comment above.

.

I'm sorry that linguistic analysis doesn't meet with PhatPhuk's definition of 'logical' - but the simple fact is this: the word 'MAY' leaves room for the ME's discretion in what (or what NOT) to include as 'applicable' to determining cause of death.

.

I'll post this here as well since it didn't get a lot of replies in the other thread...

I don't know if this has ever been brought up in these death threads, but has anyone considered that the reason we keep getting vague statements regarding Prince's death may be due to Prince taking out a life insurance policy & his camp wanting to ensure the insurance company pays out. Any additional info may give the company enough cause to contest dispersing the funds (as they can argue Prince committed suicide) even if his manner of death really was accidental.

Does anyone know if life insurance companies require you to provide them with a full autopsy report or if the summarized version suffices?

You need to get home & auto insurance when you buy a house & car so he probably had that. Insurance companies usually attempt to get you to purchase life insurance along with the others & make the process relatively painless. In most people eyes, putting together a will is a lot more burdensome than obtaining life insurance. Furthermore, it wouldn't surprise me if some of his contracts with record labels (especially WB) & concert promotion companies required that he be insured. Thus, I can see him having that.

If the cryptic statements aren't an attempt to avoid losing insurance money, then my guess is they're attempting to protect his legacy & estate (they could be concerned about all three). IMO, this would mean Prince really did have AIDS (I still think it was something else) or his drug problem was A LOT worse than his fans think. I can't see how any other logical explanation as to how Prince went from A to Z would mess up a criminal investigation or damage his legacy.

[Edited 10/9/16 7:53am]

Sinnick said:

I'll post this here as well since it didn't get a lot of replies in the other thread...

I don't know if this has ever been brought up in these death threads, but has anyone considered that the reason we keep getting vague statements regarding Prince's death may be due to Prince taking out a life insurance policy & his camp wanting to ensure the insurance company pays out. Any additional info may give the company enough cause to contest dispersing the funds (as they can argue Prince committed suicide) even if his manner of death really was accidental.

Does anyone know if life insurance companies require you to provide them with a full autopsy report or if the summarized version suffices?

You need to get home & auto insurance when you buy a house & car so he probably had that. Insurance companies usually attempt to get you to purchase life insurance along with the others & make the process relatively painless. In most people eyes, putting together a will is a lot more burdensome than obtaining life insurance. Furthermore, it wouldn't surprise me if some of his contracts with record labels (especially WB) & concert promotion companies required that he be insured. Thus, I can see him having that.

If the cryptic statements aren't an attempt to avoid losing insurance money, then my guess is they're attempting to protect his legacy & estate (they could be concerned about all three). IMO, this would mean Prince really did have AIDS (I still think it was something else) or his drug problem was A LOT worse than his fans think. I can't see how any other logical explanation as to how Prince went from A to Z would mess up a criminal investigation or damage his legacy.

[Edited 10/9/16 7:53am]

Sinnick - I posted your question on the other threads, and they have now insitgated some very interesting discussion!

(See 'Curioties' and Estate, Part 4').

PeteSilas said:

Superconductor said:

sunset3121 said: You just can't take facts at face value and have to spin some fantasy "interpretation" that Prince knew he was dying and "prepared" Tyka for his death.

that kinda sounds like what she was saying though, but then again, like i said, she don't seem too bright and probably doesn't have the best way of saying things. It's a strange, cryptic statement as are her flat emotions, just weird. I know prince could be like that but there was a heart under it all, tyka seems really really cold.

At several in the Today show interview, she was absolutely crushed.

I actually saw it in the ET interview as well.

Had she been crying someone would have something to say about that, too.

Think of P's interview with Oprah. Not a single tear was shed.

They were both stoic, not void. Just being strong.

phatphuk said:

TopazGirl said:

"...I wanted to add to this... In order for the medical examiner to determine the OD was accidental and not suicide, they have to look at his medical history as well his frame of mind at the time. So, for example, if he had a terminal disease and couldn't take it anymore and decided to take himself out like it is being suggested, then by looking at his current health, they could determine if he had something going on that would give cause to believe he might have wanted to end it all. However, they determined his death was accidental..."

...To determine his mindset, they would have to interview those close to him to get an idea where Prince's head was at. For example, they could have asked those close to him if Prince was in such a bad state that he would take his own life. Or, they could have asked questions like if they thought he was depressed, or if they thought he would have any reason to take his own life, etc. However, after all of this, they determined his death was accidental...

...The Carver County sheriff had said at the time that they would be interviewing people close to Prince. The medical examiner uses the police reports as well as a source of information. I would think they had to have asked those close to him what Prince's mindset was at the time to be sure..."

Thank you TopazGirl! That is very insightful

People need to read — {and reread} —TopazGirl's response slowly and outloud.

Do yourselves a favor, people. Reread TopazGirl's response as many times as it takes you until it makes sense.

You make perfect sense to me, TopazGirl. Posts like yours — {and disch's, and Superconductor's, and sonshine's, and others whose handles slip my mind right now} — restore my faith in the idea that at least a minority of Prince fans are capable of logical thinking

Thank you phatphuk (that name cracks me up lol). I like your posts too! I'm just trying to be rational here in addition to the other posters that you mentioned. It doesn't mean that I think I'm right and sure, I could be missing some points that factor into the equation, however, I do think that those close to Prince would be better able to try and determine if the man would have committed suicide or had reason to than say one of us.

TopazGirl said:

phatphuk said:

Thank you TopazGirl! That is very insightful

People need to read — {and reread} —TopazGirl's response slowly and outloud.

Do yourselves a favor, people. Reread TopazGirl's response as many times as it takes you until it makes sense.

You make perfect sense to me, TopazGirl. Posts like yours — {and disch's, and Superconductor's, and sonshine's, and others whose handles slip my mind right now} — restore my faith in the idea that at least a minority of Prince fans are capable of logical thinking

Thank you phatphuk (that name cracks me up lol). I like your posts too! I'm just trying to be rational here in addition to the other posters that you mentioned. It doesn't mean that I think I'm right and sure, I could be missing some points that factor into the equation, however, I do think that those close to Prince would be better able to try and determine if the man would have committed suicide or had reason to than say one of us.

You are missing points, especially those concerning what close associates of his were saying about his state of mind leading up to April 21.

Sinnick said:

I'll post this here as well since it didn't get a lot of replies in the other thread...

I don't know if this has ever been brought up in these death threads, but has anyone considered that the reason we keep getting vague statements regarding Prince's death may be due to Prince taking out a life insurance policy & his camp wanting to ensure the insurance company pays out. Any additional info may give the company enough cause to contest dispersing the funds (as they can argue Prince committed suicide) even if his manner of death really was accidental.

Does anyone know if life insurance companies require you to provide them with a full autopsy report or if the summarized version suffices?

You need to get home & auto insurance when you buy a house & car so he probably had that. Insurance companies usually attempt to get you to purchase life insurance along with the others & make the process relatively painless. In most people eyes, putting together a will is a lot more burdensome than obtaining life insurance. Furthermore, it wouldn't surprise me if some of his contracts with record labels (especially WB) & concert promotion companies required that he be insured. Thus, I can see him having that.

If the cryptic statements aren't an attempt to avoid losing insurance money, then my guess is they're attempting to protect his legacy & estate (they could be concerned about all three). IMO, this would mean Prince really did have AIDS (I still think it was something else) or his drug problem was A LOT worse than his fans think. I can't see how any other logical explanation as to how Prince went from A to Z would mess up a criminal investigation or damage his legacy.

[Edited 10/9/16 7:53am]

It's all to do with his legacy and estate and nothing to do with life insurance. Somebody not concerned enough to leave a will, will be even less concerned about life insurance.

fortuneandserendipity said:

It's all to do with his legacy and estate and nothing to do with life insurance. Somebody not concerned enough to leave a will, will be even less concerned about life insurance.

The more we hear / learn, the less convinced I am that he 'wasn't concerned' about leaving a will. It seems, more and more, as if he had made all the preparations for the things that mattered to him in advance - and not leaving a will was a deliberate decision.

fortuneandserendipity said:

TopazGirl said:

Thank you phatphuk (that name cracks me up lol). I like your posts too! I'm just trying to be rational here in addition to the other posters that you mentioned. It doesn't mean that I think I'm right and sure, I could be missing some points that factor into the equation, however, I do think that those close to Prince would be better able to try and determine if the man would have committed suicide or had reason to than say one of us.

You are missing points, especially those concerning what close associates of his were saying about his state of mind leading up to April 21.

Oh, ok. I am unsure which associates you mean. I guess I'm thinking of Kirk for one and he hasn't spoken publicly about it.

TopazGirl said:

phatphuk said:

TopazGirl said:

"...I wanted to add to this... In order for the medical examiner to determine the OD was accidental and not suicide, they have to look at his medical history as well his frame of mind at the time. So, for example, if he had a terminal disease and couldn't take it anymore and decided to take himself out like it is being suggested, then by looking at his current health, they could determine if he had something going on that would give cause to believe he might have wanted to end it all. However, they determined his death was accidental..."

...To determine his mindset, they would have to interview those close to him to get an idea where Prince's head was at. For example, they could have asked those close to him if Prince was in such a bad state that he would take his own life. Or, they could have asked questions like if they thought he was depressed, or if they thought he would have any reason to take his own life, etc. However, after all of this, they determined his death was accidental...

...The Carver County sheriff had said at the time that they would be interviewing people close to Prince. The medical examiner uses the police reports as well as a source of information. I would think they had to have asked those close to him what Prince's mindset was at the time to be sure..."

"...Thank you TopazGirl! That is very insightful ...

...People need to read — {and reread} —TopazGirl's response slowly and outloud...

...Do yourselves a favor, people. Reread TopazGirl's response as many times as it takes you until it makes sense...

...You make perfect sense to me, TopazGirl. Posts like yours — {and disch's, and Superconductor's, and sonshine's, and others whose handles slip my mind right now} — restore my faith in the idea that at least a minority of Prince fans are capable of logical thinking ..."

"...Thank you phatphuk (that name cracks me up lol). I like your posts too! I'm just trying to be rational here in addition to the other posters that you mentioned. It doesn't mean that I think I'm right and sure, I could be missing some points that factor into the equation, however, I do think that those close to Prince would be better able to try and determine if the man would have committed suicide or had reason to than say one of us...".

TopazGirl said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

You are missing points, especially those concerning what close associates of his were saying about his state of mind leading up to April 21.

Oh, ok. I am unsure which associates you mean. I guess I'm thinking of Kirk for one and he hasn't spoken publicly about it.

One of them said 'he had become snappy, impatient of late', as far as I recall one source saying. Then there was the chef who said he hadn't been himself for months, along the lines of 'no longer chipper'. KJ would know more than anyone, true but he has only referred to hospital treatments. It's safe to say he knew of those times when Prince would retreat to his villa in the carribean to recuperate- that report emerging I think after his passing- since it was KJ's private jet that P would often use to get about.

phatphuk said:

TopazGirl said:

"...Thank you phatphuk (that name cracks me up lol). I like your posts too! I'm just trying to be rational here in addition to the other posters that you mentioned. It doesn't mean that I think I'm right and sure, I could be missing some points that factor into the equation, however, I do think that those close to Prince would be better able to try and determine if the man would have committed suicide or had reason to than say one of us...".

This gif doesn't include mousetraps for the stinky cheese orgers? I'm a bit disappointed

fortuneandserendipity said:

TopazGirl said:

Oh, ok. I am unsure which associates you mean. I guess I'm thinking of Kirk for one and he hasn't spoken publicly about it.

One of them said 'he had become snappy, impatient of late', as far as I recall one source saying. Then there was the chef who said he hadn't been himself for months, along the lines of 'no longer chipper'. KJ would know more than anyone, true but he has only referred to hospital treatments. It's safe to say he knew of those times when Prince would retreat to his villa in the carribean to recuperate- that report emerging I think after his passing- since it was KJ's private jet that P would often use to get about.

My Dad became like that - just before he was given his terminal diagnosis (he died 4 weeks later).

.

He explained before he passed - 'I couldn't help it; I was in pain, and it made me angry'.

.

Dibblekins said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

One of them said 'he had become snappy, impatient of late', as far as I recall one source saying. Then there was the chef who said he hadn't been himself for months, along the lines of 'no longer chipper'. KJ would know more than anyone, true but he has only referred to hospital treatments. It's safe to say he knew of those times when Prince would retreat to his villa in the carribean to recuperate- that report emerging I think after his passing- since it was KJ's private jet that P would often use to get about.

My Dad became like that - just before he was given his terminal diagnosis (he died 4 weeks later).

.

He explained before he passed - 'I couldn't help it; I was in pain, and it made me angry'.

.

So sorry.

fortuneandserendipity said:

TopazGirl said:

Oh, ok. I am unsure which associates you mean. I guess I'm thinking of Kirk for one and he hasn't spoken publicly about it.

One of them said 'he had become snappy, impatient of late', as far as I recall one source saying. Then there was the chef who said he hadn't been himself for months, along the lines of 'no longer chipper'. KJ would know more than anyone, true but he has only referred to hospital treatments. It's safe to say he knew of those times when Prince would retreat to his villa in the carribean to recuperate- that report emerging I think after his passing- since it was KJ's private jet that P would often use to get about.

Yes, I remember those statements. Now, I am unsure who the authorities spoke to, but I do know that in the beginning they said that they had to talk to those close to Prince to determine if he was taking any pills because they didn't know boo at that time. Statements about his irritability and the chef saying that he hadn't been himself in my opinion does not mean that those people would have told the authorities that Prince was suicidal...the question of suicide is my main point in my post about the medical examiner's determination.

I guess all I'm saying is that whoever they interviewed and the answers that this person or people gave is what helped them make their final determination on whether it was an accidental OD. For all we know, some of those answers by those close acquaintances could have been things like "No, he was trying to get help with a med dependence" or "No, he wanted to live as he had plans ahead that he was excited about" or "No, he absolutely would never take his own life", etc. and these are certainly just examples as no one would ever know what was said.

Superconductor said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

The problem is, the one fact we do know for sure (fentanyl toxicity) doesn't square with all the preponderant evidence pertinent to the surrounding circumstances. By which I mean the numerous accounts pertaining to other substances, themselves potently toxic.

The death certificate is misleading and asks more questions than it answers. You simply can't rule out suicide. You yourself said that it made no sense, that P's death was bizarre as his life was bizarre. In other words, there's a lot we don't know. But to me, the situation taken as a whole seems to point to suicide.

The autopsy report is not misleading. It is an official document. The med examiner doesn't lie. There are several boxes to tick such as natural cause, accident, suicide, homicide, The accident box is ticked. The police commissioner also said suicide is ruled out, as is foul play. Yes it makes no sense, his life and death were bizarre but that doesn't mean suicide. Yes there is a lot we don't know but it doesn't matter. Prince died from accidental OD. Accident means he didn't know, which means he didn't suicide. Suicide means intent, there is no intent in an accident, that is why it is an accident.

.

Superconductor: I respectfully must disagree with your comment. The "Autopsy Report" is indeed "misleading". Why, you say? Because it was not a "full" autopsy report, NOR was it an "official" autopsy report. The autopsy report that was made public was the "short version"--for media release only. Also, Minnesota law grants an autopsy report to remain "private".

.

Furthermore, in regard to the medical examiner, you said they don't "lie". Yes, they "can" and "will" lie, if asked to for a large sum of money. I don't want to get into conspiracies here, but the person who performed Prince's autopsy has done extensive research in "Fentanyl" (which our government has used as chemical warfare as the Russians have as well). I won't go any futher about this topic, so you will have to conduct your own research. And, what you will find is quite alarming.

.

zenarose said:

Dibblekins said:

My Dad became like that - just before he was given his terminal diagnosis (he died 4 weeks later).

.

He explained before he passed - 'I couldn't help it; I was in pain, and it made me angry'.

.

So sorry.

Awww - thanks, hun - don't worry; it was 14 years ago now...It just reminded me of how my Dad's mood changed (apparently inexplicably), and the reason he subsequently gave for it.

.
I can relate on a personal level too - I've had a lot of medical problems / surgeries in the past few years and was in 24/7 pain myself...It made me so irritable and impatient; it was like acid eating away at my good spirits, if that makes sense?

.

phatphuk said:

TopazGirl said:

"...Thank you phatphuk (that name cracks me up lol). I like your posts too! I'm just trying to be rational here in addition to the other posters that you mentioned. It doesn't mean that I think I'm right and sure, I could be missing some points that factor into the equation, however, I do think that those close to Prince would be better able to try and determine if the man would have committed suicide or had reason to than say one of us...".

Yes, I do actually. And paired with tomato soup! But please, I like my sammich fresh off the grill and not from under a roll lol.

Sinnick said:

I'll post this here as well since it didn't get a lot of replies in the other thread...

I don't know if this has ever been brought up in these death threads, but has anyone considered that the reason we keep getting vague statements regarding Prince's death may be due to Prince taking out a life insurance policy & his camp wanting to ensure the insurance company pays out. Any additional info may give the company enough cause to contest dispersing the funds (as they can argue Prince committed suicide) even if his manner of death really was accidental.

Does anyone know if life insurance companies require you to provide them with a full autopsy report or if the summarized version suffices?

You need to get home & auto insurance when you buy a house & car so he probably had that. Insurance companies usually attempt to get you to purchase life insurance along with the others & make the process relatively painless. In most people eyes, putting together a will is a lot more burdensome than obtaining life insurance. Furthermore, it wouldn't surprise me if some of his contracts with record labels (especially WB) & concert promotion companies required that he be insured. Thus, I can see him having that.

If the cryptic statements aren't an attempt to avoid losing insurance money, then my guess is they're attempting to protect his legacy & estate (they could be concerned about all three). IMO, this would mean Prince really did have AIDS (I still think it was something else) or his drug problem was A LOT worse than his fans think. I can't see how any other logical explanation as to how Prince went from A to Z would mess up a criminal investigation or damage his legacy.

[Edited 10/9/16 7:53am]

.

Very good point. I don't think life insurance has been discussed here until now.

cloveringold85 said:

Superconductor said:

fortuneandserendipity said: The autopsy report is not misleading. It is an official document. The med examiner doesn't lie. There are several boxes to tick such as natural cause, accident, suicide, homicide, The accident box is ticked. The police commissioner also said suicide is ruled out, as is foul play. Yes it makes no sense, his life and death were bizarre but that doesn't mean suicide. Yes there is a lot we don't know but it doesn't matter. Prince died from accidental OD. Accident means he didn't know, which means he didn't suicide. Suicide means intent, there is no intent in an accident, that is why it is an accident.

.

Superconductor: I respectfully must disagree with your comment. The "Autopsy Report" is indeed "misleading". Why, you say? Because it was not a "full" autopsy report, NOR was it an "official" autopsy report. The autopsy report that was made public was the "short version"--for media release only. Also, Minnesota law grants an autopsy report to remain "private".

.

Furthermore, in regard to the medical examiner, you said they don't "lie". Yes, they "can" and "will" lie, if asked to for a large sum of money. I don't want to get into conspiracies here, but the person who performed Prince's autopsy has done extensive research in "Fentanyl" (which our government has used as chemical warfare as the Russians have as well). I won't go any futher about this topic, so you will have to conduct your own research. And, what you will find is quite alarming.

.

"Because it was not a "full" autopsy report, NOR was it an "official" autopsy report."

How many times has this been stated?. I believe someone on one of the earlier boards stated that their dad died from a massive heart attack which appeared on the short autopsy report as the cause of death but the full report showed the pancreatic cancer had eaten most of his pancreas up and actually caused the heart attack but the official cause of death was heart attack.

No one is saying he did not die from the Fentanyl. He just did not exhibt the behavior of a drug addict taking drugs for no other reason then enjoyment. Something made him need those illegal drugs and something made him need to go cold turkey. Some of us believe it was other health issues and many things are starting to point in that direction however, we all know his autopsy report is going to contiue to say " Fentanyl Accidental Overdose. Can we move on from that now?

Dibblekins said:

zenarose said:

So sorry.

Awww - thanks, hun - don't worry; it was 14 years ago now...It just reminded me of how my Dad's mood changed (apparently inexplicably), and the reason he subsequently gave for it.

.
I can relate on a personal level too - I've had a lot of medical problems / surgeries in the past few years and was in 24/7 pain myself...It made me so irritable and impatient; it was like acid eating away at my good spirits, if that makes sense?

.

.

Dibble: Sorry for your loss. Hope you are feeling better these days.

fortuneandserendipity said:

TopazGirl said:

Oh, ok. I am unsure which associates you mean. I guess I'm thinking of Kirk for one and he hasn't spoken publicly about it.

One of them said 'he had become snappy, impatient of late', as far as I recall one source saying. Then there was the chef who said he hadn't been himself for months, along the lines of 'no longer chipper'. KJ would know more than anyone, true but he has only referred to hospital treatments. It's safe to say he knew of those times when Prince would retreat to his villa in the carribean to recuperate- that report emerging I think after his passing- since it was KJ's private jet that P would often use to get about.

You need to knock off. Not one single person has said he was "snappy or impatient of late" The chef said he was not as chatty or chipper and asked for soups or smoothies because he said he had stomach problems.

KJ does not own a jet. The jet is owned by a Lifetime fitness Gym that KJ actually works for in Minneapolis.

People have stories of Prince being snappy with musicians and about music issues back to the time he was a teenager. I guess he was using pain pills back then as well.

The Star-Tribune reported that he had been "increasingly agitated" in the days after the plane incident: http://www.startribune.co...380338131/

-

As a side note, it would be easier if we consolidated death-theory talk on one thread -- this one: http://prince.org/msg/7/433457 . What do you guys say?

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

One of them said 'he had become snappy, impatient of late', as far as I recall one source saying. Then there was the chef who said he hadn't been himself for months, along the lines of 'no longer chipper'. KJ would know more than anyone, true but he has only referred to hospital treatments. It's safe to say he knew of those times when Prince would retreat to his villa in the carribean to recuperate- that report emerging I think after his passing- since it was KJ's private jet that P would often use to get about.

You need to knock off. Not one single person has said he was "snappy or impatient of late" The chef said he was not as chatty or chipper and asked for soups or smoothies because he said he had stomach problems.

KJ does not own a jet. The jet is owned by a Lifetime fitness Gym that KJ actually works for in Minneapolis.

People have stories of Prince being snappy with musicians and about music issues back to the time he was a teenager. I guess he was using pain pills back then as well.

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

One of them said 'he had become snappy, impatient of late', as far as I recall one source saying. Then there was the chef who said he hadn't been himself for months, along the lines of 'no longer chipper'. KJ would know more than anyone, true but he has only referred to hospital treatments. It's safe to say he knew of those times when Prince would retreat to his villa in the carribean to recuperate- that report emerging I think after his passing- since it was KJ's private jet that P would often use to get about.

You need to knock off. Not one single person has said he was "snappy or impatient of late" The chef said he was not as chatty or chipper and asked for soups or smoothies because he said he had stomach problems.

KJ does not own a jet. The jet is owned by a Lifetime fitness Gym that KJ actually works for in Minneapolis.

People have stories of Prince being snappy with musicians and about music issues back to the time he was a teenager. I guess he was using pain pills back then as well.

You're wrong. I distinctly remember reading those words attributed to a close associate. That's not to say the source was named or that it was corroborated by another source. But since when have you personally ever given a shit about confirmed reports?!? when you take everything written on P in the media as gospel.

So KJ hired a jet, didn't own it. What difference does that make? KJ was Prince's closest friend and the plane was always at disposal.

About P being snappy 'going back decades', I'm well aware of that bc I actually read the biographies. But it doesn't alter what was reported, and that if he was generally snappy or impatient with someone or some people, that would imply a change in character. Or does that not satisfy your binary, absolutist way of thinking?

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Superconductor: I respectfully must disagree with your comment. The "Autopsy Report" is indeed "misleading". Why, you say? Because it was not a "full" autopsy report, NOR was it an "official" autopsy report. The autopsy report that was made public was the "short version"--for media release only. Also, Minnesota law grants an autopsy report to remain "private".

.

Furthermore, in regard to the medical examiner, you said they don't "lie". Yes, they "can" and "will" lie, if asked to for a large sum of money. I don't want to get into conspiracies here, but the person who performed Prince's autopsy has done extensive research in "Fentanyl" (which our government has used as chemical warfare as the Russians have as well). I won't go any futher about this topic, so you will have to conduct your own research. And, what you will find is quite alarming.

.

"Because it was not a "full" autopsy report, NOR was it an "official" autopsy report."

How many times has this been stated?. I believe someone on one of the earlier boards stated that their dad died from a massive heart attack which appeared on the short autopsy report as the cause of death but the full report showed the pancreatic cancer had eaten most of his pancreas up and actually caused the heart attack but the official cause of death was heart attack.

No one is saying he did not die from the Fentanyl. He just did not exhibt the behavior of a drug addict taking drugs for no other reason then enjoyment. Something made him need those illegal drugs and something made him need to go cold turkey. Some of us believe it was other health issues and many things are starting to point in that direction however, we all know his autopsy report is going to contiue to say " Fentanyl Accidental Overdose. Can we move on from that now?

.

Some people are not aware that the autopsy report was not a "complete" report. Where is states "other contributing factors/health" they listed "N/A". We really don't know what "N/A" means......it could mean several things......either it there were no other contributing factor's in Prince's death, or they chose to leave other infomation out, so they only released the short version for media release.

.

Yes, the cause of death will remain as "Accidental Fentanyl Overdose" and "self administered".

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

One of them said 'he had become snappy, impatient of late', as far as I recall one source saying. Then there was the chef who said he hadn't been himself for months, along the lines of 'no longer chipper'. KJ would know more than anyone, true but he has only referred to hospital treatments. It's safe to say he knew of those times when Prince would retreat to his villa in the carribean to recuperate- that report emerging I think after his passing- since it was KJ's private jet that P would often use to get about.

You need to knock off. Not one single person has said he was "snappy or impatient of late" The chef said he was not as chatty or chipper and asked for soups or smoothies because he said he had stomach problems.

KJ does not own a jet. The jet is owned by a Lifetime fitness Gym that KJ actually works for in Minneapolis.

People have stories of Prince being snappy with musicians and about music issues back to the time he was a teenager. I guess he was using pain pills back then as well.

.

Just wanted to add; it was TMZ who reported the Walgreen's story and the clerks had said (supposedly) that Prince seemed "agitated". That is where the story came from. I haven't heard anyone else say that, except TMZ, which is not a credible source.