skywalker, Alright, sorry for the butthurt line. I think we're letting this get away from us and disagree on far less that it may seem. Let me see if I can better express myself.

These tracks have NEVER sounded exactly the same live as on record. Audiences both hard core and casual were always cool with this reality.

In the past there have been MANY triggered loops, effects, background vocals, etc. that the bands have played along too. According to those that know, this takes lots of skills and practice.

I don't know how much this band usually jams along with the sampler, but, last night, to me, it looked and sounded like the only one jamming to the sampler was Prince. He was funkin' it up on the synth. (a highlight for me, yes, during the sampler set). The band was not lit up and it looked to me like they were pretending to be playing but if they were you couldn't hear them. And let me tell you, the sound was CLEAR. The only one's on stage I didn't hear much from were the 2 background singers that weren't Liv. I rarely heard them. 3rdeyegirl were crystal clear.

In my review of last night's show I said that I might respond better to the sampler if Prince did a one man show with it. With a band there I expect them to play. Hits or not.

If my standards are too high, blame Prince.

Hope this clears up where I'm coming from and you can see my point.

You won't find the words "phoning it in" or "laziness" in regards to Prince in ANY of my posts.

skywalker said:

djThunderfunk said:

3. I think it's cool when it's just Prince. Karaoke or not, there is a mad scientist thing going on during the sampler set. He's not just phoning it in. He is creating, he is dictating the flow/the time, the groove, and he is absolutley working the crowd into a frenzy like no one else can. I think claims of laziness are bullshit. If you've seen him do it, you know he's working.

-

djThunderfunk said:

skywalker, Alright, sorry for the butthurt line. I think we're letting this get away from us and disagree on far less that it may seem. Let me see if I can better express myself.

These tracks have NEVER sounded exactly the same live as on record. Audiences both hard core and casual were always cool with this reality.

In the past there have been MANY triggered loops, effects, background vocals, etc. that the bands have played along too. According to those that know, this takes lots of skills and practice.

I don't know how much this band usually jams along with the sampler, but, last night, to me, it looked and sounded like the only one jamming to the sampler was Prince. He was funkin' it up on the synth. (a highlight for me, yes, during the sampler set). The band was not lit up and it looked to me like they were pretending to be playing but if they were you couldn't hear them. And let me tell you, the sound was CLEAR. The only one's on stage I didn't hear much from were the 2 background singers that weren't Liv. I rarely heard them. 3rdeyegirl were crystal clear.

In my review of last night's show I said that I might respond better to the sampler if Prince did a one man show with it. With a band there I expect them to play. Hits or not.

If my standards are too high, blame Prince.

Hope this clears up where I'm coming from and you can see my point.

No worries man. Whenever I have seen Prince in concert do the sampler set, it has been sans band...audience dancing onstage. A free for all party atmosphere. Like I said, the crowd eats it up. I totally see your point. Thanks for the talk.

KingSausage said:

...I've never seen a live show with a sampler set (though I saw Kirky J on drums numerous times, so maybe that was bad enough). ..

djThunderfunk said:

paulludvig said:

To those who don't like the sampler set - what did you think of the live versions of Hot Thing and Forever in My Life back in '87? I Wish U Heaven in '88?

Forever in My Life live 87 is one of my all time favorites.

Can't you see the irony in that?

paulludvig said:

djThunderfunk said:

Forever in My Life live 87 is one of my all time favorites.

Can't you see the irony in that?

See reply #60.

[Edited 3/15/15 23:20pm]

I won't pay those kind of ticket prices just to get a sampler set. For some, it's cool, but I just want/expect more than an extraordinarily talented artist on cruise control.

i agree that fans go nuts for the sampler set. I've been in a crowd that lost it when he pressed the key that played When Doves Cry on the PA. I can even relate, because a few seconds later he pressed another key that played Shockadelica and I, the hardcore fan, was thrilled that he even acknowledged that song exists.

.

but the fact that people like the sampler set is not an argument that it's better than the band playing live. Imagine how crazy people would go if he actually PLAYED when doves cry. Imagine how ape I would have gone if he had PLAYED Shockadelica!

[Edited 3/16/15 1:07am]

fusk said:

i agree that fans go nuts for the sampler set. I've been in a crowd that lost it when he pressed the key that played When Doves Cry on the PA. I can even relate, because a few seconds later he pressed another key that played Shockadelica and I, the hardcore fan, was thrilled that he even acknowledged that song exists.

.

but the fact that people like the sampler set is not an argument that it's better than the band playing live. Imagine how crazy people would go if he actually PLAYED when doves cry. Imagine how ape I would have gone if he had PLAYED Shockadelica!

[Edited 3/16/15 1:07am]

vinaysfunk said:

And the main reason he uses the sampler sets in the first place is because at this stage in his career he has so many songs that he cant conceivebly play all of them in one concert

.

Perhaps he could remove those pointless 20 minute long jams on disco hits and the like.

skywalker said:

If you want to see Prince go for the "artistic achievement", play deep cuts, instrumental jams, and obscure hardcore fan favs....go to an after show.

.

BULLSHIT.

.

Aftershows contains exactly the same crap as the main shows.

For me the main problem with the sampler set is that is has become an ultra-fixed static set. If you're messing with pre-recorded loops and snnipets, have at lest some variety from night to night and throw some surprises. He's been "playing" the same sequence of When Doves Cry -> Hot Thing -> Sign O' The Times -> Alphabet St. for the last two years at almost every gig featuring the sampler set.

Given the nature of the set (I mean pre-recorded), why not having a bigger selection to choose from?

BartVanHemelen said:

skywalker said:

If you want to see Prince go for the "artistic achievement", play deep cuts, instrumental jams, and obscure hardcore fan favs....go to an after show.

.

BULLSHIT.

.

Aftershows contains exactly the same crap as the main shows.

BULLSHIT

I think they're ridiculously hypocritical. The guy touts his body of work "I got too many hits," & his musicianship "Real music, by real muscians," (although it has been a while since I've seen him live (2010) so I'm not sure if he's still using that line?). If that is the case, why not play more of these hits in full & with full band instrumentation? We know you wrote them & we know you have the musical chops. These sampler segments are lazy & are just interludes where Prince coasts & boasts on his reputation. Deserved? Yes. Worthy, worthwhile & entertaining? No.

He could be sitting at the piano running through several of the same numbers, or do an acoustic segment, or a guitar medley. Apologists will come up with any number of excuses to the contrary, but that would showcase his musicianship & skill as a live performer, which is what I'm paying to see. The only good thing a sampler set has to it is that it's actually him onstage & not one of his yodeling proteges.

Most fans, let alone paying audience members, don't go to a Prince show just to get their cock teased. They want to full-on get their grind on.

KingSausage said:

What would your reaction be to a Prince tour based on one-man shows, all sampler set? What do you think the general audience's reaction would be? What do you think critics' reactions would be?

Imagine if there were no hypothetical questions?

Militant said:

KingSausage said:

What would your reaction be to a Prince tour based on one-man shows, all sampler set? What do you think the general audience's reaction would be? What do you think critics' reactions would be?

Imagine if there were no hypothetical questions?

Imagine if sycophantic Prince fans took everything he said at face value.

Welcome to the Dumb.

Objection 1 - "If I wanted to hear the songs sound like the record I would listen at home"

And if you wanted to hear the songs played live by Prince and literally any band he's ever had, you could listen to literally hundreds of bootlegs circulating. Some of them direct from the soundboard, with no crowd noise! Imagine that! But you still want to go and see Prince. Why? Maybe because it's just as much about the atmosphere and buzz, the shared appreciation, the ambience, the social aspect? And just maybe, for the majority of the audience, that includes hearing things they actually recognize, including things like When Doves Cry which are incredibly difficult to play with a live band because they were written using intricate drum machine programming, no bassline, and analog synths? Or do you want Hannah, a rock drummer to attempt to play that intricate pattern on a standard acoustic drum set and no synths because there isn't currently a keyboard player in the band? Would it even be recognisable to the audience? Probably not, thus defeating the purpose.

As skywalker mentioned, maybe the people who complain have never been to a EDM or hip-hop show, or seen bands like NIN. I saw NIN last year, they are one of my favorite bands, and just like Prince, Trent does certain tracks triggered by samples and loops and sings over the top, sometimes with another bandmember triggering stuff too. They opened the show I saw last year with "Copy of A" and "Me, I'm Not" done this way. Both minimal electronic songs. Kraftwerk does their entire show this way. If they attempted to do anything else it wouldn't be Kraftwerk. People would leave.


I think some people fail to recognise the influence that Prince had on the electronic and Detroit House scenes. Ever heard of Juan Atkins (Model 500)? He, and many other 80's electronic pioneers cite Prince as one of their main influences. I think he, and all of us who appreciate that side of Prince, would find it very bizarre if he took certain songs that were written in a minimal electronic style and attempted them in a more organic style with his rock band or his extended funk and jazz band. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Objection 2 - "I wouldn't pay just to get a sampler set"

I've seen Prince 14 times. He's done that sampler set at more than half of those shows. It's never been more than 25 minutes in shows that mostly go on for the better part of 3 hours. Let's not exaggerate the situation here.

Objection 3 - "Have some more variety in the sampler set"

The songs that appear most regularly in the sampler set are the songs that make sense in the sampler set. Hot Thing, When Doves Cry, SOTT, Pop Life, Raspberry Beret, Alphabet St, Forever In My Life.

And I don't know what the last show you saw was, but I saw Prince one month ago at Koko in London and the sampler set contained portions of "U Know", "The Gold Standard" and "Darling Nikki". At Louisville the other night he had "The Ex's Face" in there. Last year when I saw him in Birmingham he had "17 Days", "The Most Beautiful Girl In The World" and "Nasty Girl" in there. Back in 2007 in London he had "Erotic City", "DMSR", "Soft & Wet" and "I Wanna Be Your Lover" in there. At other shows, "Shockadelica", "777-9311", "Partyman", "Delirious", "Irresistable Bitch", "Sexy Dancer" and "Head" have been in there.

That's 25 songs, how much variety do you want? I've never seen him play the same sampler set twice.

The sampler sets worked amazingly during the London 21 Nights encores, when the lights turned back on and it felt like an improvised, party situation.

Maybe it's getting a bit tired if he uses it too often... but still better live than it is listening on a boot, again and again!

Militant said:

KingSausage said:

Militant said:

Imagine if there were no hypothetical questions?

That's a pretty messed up comment from a moderator. I'm asking questions to facilitate discussion. What's your problem with my post?

I agree KingSausage.

Militant said:

The songs that appear most regularly in the sampler set are the songs that make sense in the sampler set. Hot Thing, When Doves Cry, SOTT, Pop Life, Raspberry Beret, Alphabet St, Forever In My Life.

And I don't know what the last show you saw was, but I saw Prince one month ago at Koko in London and the sampler set contained portions of "U Know", "The Gold Standard" and "Darling Nikki". At Louisville the other night he had "The Ex's Face" in there. Last year when I saw him in Birmingham he had "17 Days", "The Most Beautiful Girl In The World" and "Nasty Girl" in there. Back in 2007 in London he had "Erotic City", "DMSR", "Soft & Wet" and "I Wanna Be Your Lover" in there. At other shows, "Shockadelica", "777-9311", "Partyman", "Delirious", "Irresistable Bitch", "Sexy Dancer" and "Head" have been in there.

That's 25 songs, how much variety do you want? I've never seen him play the same sampler set twice.

Oh yeah, you can even add other snippets featured here and there. "Love" or "The Screams Of Passion" spring to mind top of my head. However, all those titles on your second paragraph (and more) tend to be minimal additions (sometimes even less than 10 seconds each) over the tiresome When Doves Cry - > Hot Thing -> Sign O' The Times -> Alphabet St thingy. That's the main core for the sampler set for the last two years already, and I bet they will be featured in this very same order at the next sampler set he plays.

KingSausage said:

Militant said:

Imagine if there were no hypothetical questions?

That's a pretty messed up comment from a moderator. I'm asking questions to facilitate discussion. What's your problem with my post?

I don't have a problem with your post, I just thought it was intellectually deficient. The sampler set is one part of a set that also includes : a live rock element, a live funk element, a solo piano element..... etc etc etc. And it's a short part of the set at that - most shows not longer than 20 minutes, if that.

You might as well say - "What if Prince did a show where he just played drums for 2 hours, what would the critics say?" or "What if Prince played a 2 hour guitar solo, what then?"

Hell - I'll tell you exactly what they say, they'd say "Where's the hits?" And when he does the sampler set, that's what he's giving them.

Militant said:

Prince is pitching it just fine.

The one man band, drum machines and synths thing is one portion of what Prince does, and it's an important part of his legacy, so it should be represented as part of the set. Prince as a rock guitarist, funk player and band leader is another part of what he does, so it should be represented as part of the set. Prince as a solo piano player or guitarist in a singer-songwriter vibe is also a part of what he does, so that should be part of the set as well.

And that's exactly what he does.

I'm going to bet that playing what he does in a sampler set requires

- a more band members = more $$$
- more equipment to travel with = more $$$
- more rehaersal time with the more band members = more $$$

so I'm betting the way the sampler set is done is a direct correlation to how much it costs to rehearse transport and do, and the amount of people and techs it takes to do it... andthe ease with which it can be transported.

$$$$ is a factor in ALL of it. it's less expensive for Prince to program it and have him play over it - which still makes people lose their shit and it means he makes the money he needs to make.

The band members get paid to rehearse so I'm betting he needs ot keep the budget in check and he decides whats the most important things for them to spend their time on.