BEST: Purple Rain Movie


WORST: Graffiti Bridge Movie


and the name change.

Double whammy 90-93 killed his career, what follows is a hit or miss (for fans only) career mired in confusion and with no direction, with occasional sporadic falshes of brilliance, mostly only in concerts, which also ended after his "comeback" in '04 with the Musicology Tour.

best move - Purple Rain - the story is he started filming before getting the okay to do the project

worst move - tie - warner bros fued/doing his own marketing

He was okay spending warner bros money to promote himself, but won't spend his own money to do the same thing.

With professional marketing there really is no reason he wouldn't have continued to have hits.

In reflection of this posting, I wonder myself if Prince has ultimately doomed his career or not. Hard for me to say. I don't really look at his career in terms of how much he makes from touring and singing the old songs from the past. I always regarded Prince in not how he surprised me with his new music (not all surprises are good said the doctor), but in how he delighted me with his new music.

There has been a time long spent since I have been delighted with his new music. So it's a totally selfish and personal stand point for me when I consider your question.

If you watched the interview with Joan Jett on Guitar Sessions, you would see how incredibly difficult it was for her to get a career started without the support of the major labels. That was back in the day, in the late 70's and early 80's. She literally sold albums out of the trunk of her car to get Black Heart records going. This was back in the day when DJ's had the freedom to play what they wanted, and that went a long way in helping her out.

The point in that is this: She learned and adapted to get her music out there, but the labels also have learned and adapted from the type of actions she (and others like her) have taken to get the music out which competes with their bottom dollar. So Prince has been in an up hill struggle ever since he broke away. Both he and the labels have been constantly sharpening their claws at one another. Still the labels have the most powerful keys.

Still, out of the trunk or not, Joan Jett needed a killer album, which is what she delivered, and people flocked to it. If Prince wants to have a new generation flock to him, IF that is, then I would say nothing has changed there. And I think we can all admit, he has not delivered a killer album in some time.

babynoz said:

2elijah said:

Guess I'll join the discussion since I'm snowed in from the snowstorm. Anyway, I think his best career move was when he parted from the Purple Rain era/Revolution band members. I'm sure some folks will not be happy that is being said. But I don't mean it in a disrespectful way, as I enjoyed the Purple Rain era of that time. By that I mean, by his parting with those band members and moving on with his musice, he left a legacy for himself and the Revolution band members who were involved in the Purple Rain era/and the movie. The movie is still watched every year by new fans/fans from back in the day, so that era will always be attached to his name and those band members. Now although he has moved on from playing music from that era, but still performs some songs from that era, not surprising, because of the musically-diverse audience-fans from the Purple Rain era to present day, where many look forward to hearing some of those songs, for memories sake. So it is not surprising to hear him perform songs like 'LRC', 'Purple Rain', 'TMWU', at previous/recent concerts on that basis. It's like when he parted from the Lovesexy band members/era, occasionally he will perform some songs like , 'Forever in My Life', and a few others. I just feel with both the Purple Rain and LoveSexy eras, he's left quite a legacy for himself/including the band members of both eras, which I will admit for me, those two eras were two of his most memorable for many of his fans--based on the PR movie/music and the fantastic performance of the LoveSexy tour.

I also liked the 3121 era of music/shows through early 2012), along with some former/current NPG band members (including his trio back-up singers and horn section). I'm still trying to get use to the addition of the newest, 3rdeye girl band members as part of his musical family and the addition of others like Andre Gouche-who performs with Prince occasionally, only because I haven't seen them perform much live with Prince, as I've seen with the other band members. My first time seeing the 3rdeyegril members perform with Prince, was at the recent Mohegan Sun show on 12/29/13. I did however liked their performance with Prince in the 'Bambi' vid that was for sale last year, that I purchased, and I unfortunately lost on my computer because it somehow crashed.

I believe if he didn't take chances/risks and moved on from the Revolution band era, then he might have just been limited/sort of stigmatized, to songs from that era. You see this happening with the current Morris Day & the Time band. Not to insult, because I always enjoyed the songs of the Time band, but the present-day, MD & the Time's performance seems to be limited when they perform live, as I've seen them twice live, and they only seem to perform songs the original Time members have sung.

I don't think Prince killed his career at all though. Live shows seems the way to go these days, and considering Prince isn't sign to a label, he seems to do well with live shows, even better than some artists who are considered 'popular' today to the younger generation. Given the state of the music industry, introducing plastic acts/clones they try to pass them over as 'real talent', but many of them fall short or fail to take the originality of artists, and make it into a style of their own, well it is a pleasure to have an artist, who may have had his own influences/inspirations from musiciana/artists before him- may have borrowed from some of their styles, but was creative enough and succeeded at turning their influences/inspiration into a style he can call his own.

I think if some believe he killed his career, that could be either based on some fans' desire to pigeon-hole Prince into the Purple Rain or some other era or some fans desire to design him as what they want him to be as a musician/artist, rather than embracing him as the musician/artist that he is, with his own creative vision and how he chooses to present the music to his audience. Not everyone will like 'all' the music of any artist, no matter how famous/popular they are, but being able to basically fill arenas/sell out concert tix on short notice is not something many artists can do either.

[Edited 1/3/14 10:04am]

Well said...I have always liked Prince's versatility and was always ready whenever he changed directions. I liked some eras better than others but I've never seen the value of incessant whining about something he does that may not interest me at the time. Sooner or later he will do something I love, which is fine.

His career has had it's ups and downs, which is normal....why it causes so much weeping, gnashing of teeth and garment rending around here is a mystery to me,

To answer the question, going indy was ultimately a good career move athough it was a very rocky road filled with uncertainty and turmoil.

If I had to choose a bad move I would say that wasting so much time trying to produce quality music with so many chicks of questionable talent ultimately added very little to his legacy.

Hey there! Just to add, someone in this thread referred to Prince as an oldies act, but to me that doesn't make sense for the Prince of 'now'. Why? Because if the Prince of 'now' was still singing and dancing, with that Purple Rain, sparkled maxi coat, and hairstyle from the Purple Rain era, ruffled shirt, that he wore in the LRC video or the black motorcycle outfit he wore in Purple Rain, then he would be like an oldies act trying to revive and reserve the Purple Rain era. This is why the smartest move he made was leaving the Purple Rain era, which allowed that era to have its own legacy. Since then he's made many changes to the point you can't lock him into one category of 'Prince', just like you can't lock him into one category or genre of music. That's what you call keeping things 'fresh and moving forward', because he's given fans many variations of his image/stage presence and his music over the years.


'Edited to make a spelling correction'

[Edited 1/7/14 18:56pm]

Best:

• Releasing ''Kiss'' as a single (His best effort released commerically)
• Changing his sound for ''Around The World In A Day'' and showing his real artistic vaules as an artist in 1985.
• Releasing 'Purple Rain' as a Motion Picture and a Soundtrack (Very Innovating for the Mainstream)
• Changing his name to the Love Symbol #2
• Releasing the ''Batman Soundtrack'' and once again showing the mainstream he's still a huge commericial artist.
• Releasing a experiemental song like ''Batdance'' and recieving a number one single on the billboard hot 100 with it.

Worst:

• The Graffit Bridge Film/Album
• Releasing albums every year between the 1970s-1990s.
• Copyright Issues (YouTube, etc)

2elijah said:

Hey there! Just to add, someone in this thread referred to Prince as an oldies act, but to me that doesn't make sense for the Prince of 'now'.

Your view of an oldies act is too narrow.

Just take a look at the setlists.

He doesn't have to look like an Elvis imitator to imitate Elvis.

udo said:

2elijah said:

Hey there! Just to add, someone in this thread referred to Prince as an oldies act, but to me that doesn't make sense for the Prince of 'now'.

Your view of an oldies act is too narrow.

Just take a look at the setlists.

He doesn't have to look like an Elvis imitator to imitate Elvis.

Let me explain. The point I made in my previous post, is that there are many fans who have stated, in their own words, that they wish he was still the Prince of the Purple Rain era; wishing for him to regroup and maintain the Revolution band members, because apparently their (those fans) music interests is of that era, and they probably prefer that for ‘memories’ sake’. So my comment about if Prince was still wearing the 80s type clothes of the PR era today, was comparing that to if he had pigeon-holed himself like that today- musically, image-wise and creatively- performing only music similar or of the 80s PR era, and keeping the Revolution band members vs. taking risks, changing band members, performing various forms of music, working/collaborating with other/introducing/working with new artists. If such was the case, there probably might have never been any room to move forward/change, and therefore, he would have probably been labeled as an ‘oldies’ act.

This may be the reason why many older artists/groups from the past, who were once popular/well-known, failed years later/or today at success-some of whom may still have original band members/added some new members- but failed successfully or limited their potential towards success today, due to not taking risks musically/having a limited music catalog, lack of new music/creativity/new image/promotional backup, etc., which with all or some of these situations, may not have allowed them to ‘move forward’ , towards the level of success they may/would have achieved. Only a handful of artists from the past have been able to do that.

2elijah said:

babynoz said:

Well said...I have always liked Prince's versatility and was always ready whenever he changed directions. I liked some eras better than others but I've never seen the value of incessant whining about something he does that may not interest me at the time. Sooner or later he will do something I love, which is fine.

His career has had it's ups and downs, which is normal....why it causes so much weeping, gnashing of teeth and garment rending around here is a mystery to me,

To answer the question, going indy was ultimately a good career move athough it was a very rocky road filled with uncertainty and turmoil.

If I had to choose a bad move I would say that wasting so much time trying to produce quality music with so many chicks of questionable talent ultimately added very little to his legacy.

Hey there! Just to add, someone in this thread referred to Prince as an oldies act, but to me that doesn't make sense for the Prince of 'now'. Why? Because if the Prince of 'now' was still singing and dancing, with that Purple Rain, sparkled maxi coat, and hairstyle from the Purple Rain era, ruffled shirt, that he wore in the LRC video or the black motorcycle outfit he wore in Purple Rain, then he would be like an oldies act trying to revive and reserve the Purple Rain era. This is why the smartest move he made was leaving the Purple Rain era, which allowed that era to have its own legacy. Since then he's made many changes to the point you can't lock him into one category of 'Prince', just like you can't lock him into one category or genre of music. That's what you call keeping things 'fresh and moving forward', because he's given fans many variations of his image/stage presence and his music over the years.


'Edited to make a spelling correction'

[Edited 1/7/14 18:56pm]

I think that the various directions he has taken have kept things interesting for the most part.

Prince can't really be confined to one definition so it doesn't make sense to me when people become too personally or emotionally invested in one of his personas to the point where they have to be put on suicide watch when he switches things up,

thedance said:

I saw the Gold concert in Den Bosch Holland, in early 1995. It was half a year before this album came out and a lot of the new material was played. Cool, but it quickly became "a struggle" to be a fan and to defend this name change to non-fans.

I was at this show and that marked the end of me being an avid fan! I couldn't believe this was the same guy that made me cry when he performed "Forever In My Life" in 1987... I had tickets to the next night's show as well but didn't go because the show truly was horrible.

Haven't seen him in concert since then, but I still play my live boots from 1981-1989 to death!

http://www.princevault.com/index.php/24_March,_1995

What was so especially "horrible" about the Gold era shows in Holland? The setlist seems pretty much the same as it was earlier in the UK. That era is still considered by most fans a rather exciting time to be a Prince fan and most people on this site consider the material from this era the strongest he did in the 1990s.

I'm aware of the backing tapes for some parts used during the shows, but I have hard time believing it was that bad.

whitesockedfunk said:

thedance said:

I saw the Gold concert in Den Bosch Holland, in early 1995. It was half a year before this album came out and a lot of the new material was played. Cool, but it quickly became "a struggle" to be a fan and to defend this name change to non-fans.

I was at this show and that marked the end of me being an avid fan! I couldn't believe this was the same guy that made me cry when he performed "Forever In My Life" in 1987... I had tickets to the next night's show as well but didn't go because the show truly was horrible.

Haven't seen him in concert since then, but I still play my live boots from 1981-1989 to death!

Why are U here then?

He has every right to be here. If he's just a fan of Prince's 80s output he's still a fan.

I was personally just puzzled over the strong negative reaction towards the Gold era show(s).

2elijah said:

udo said:

Your view of an oldies act is too narrow.

Just take a look at the setlists.

He doesn't have to look like an Elvis imitator to imitate Elvis.

Let me explain. The point I made in my previous post, is that there are many fans who have stated, in their own words, that they wish he was still the Prince of the Purple Rain era; wishing for him to regroup and maintain the Revolution band members, because apparently their (those fans) music interests is of that era, and they probably prefer that for ‘memories’ sake’. So my comment about if Prince was still wearing the 80s type clothes of the PR era today, was comparing that to if he had pigeon-holed himself like that today- musically, image-wise and creatively- performing only music similar or of the 80s PR era, and keeping the Revolution band members vs. taking risks, changing band members, performing various forms of music, working/collaborating with other/introducing/working with new artists. If such was the case, there probably might have never been any room to move forward/change, and therefore, he would have probably been labeled as an ‘oldies’ act.

This may be the reason why many older artists/groups from the past, who were once popular/well-known, failed years later/or today at success-some of whom may still have original band members/added some new members- but failed successfully or limited their potential towards success today, due to not taking risks musically/having a limited music catalog, lack of new music/creativity/new image/promotional backup, etc., which with all or some of these situations, may not have allowed them to ‘move forward’ , towards the level of success they may/would have achieved. Only a handful of artists from the past have been able to do that.

actually it was with the Revolution that the diversity in the music look styles etc really became interesting 1999/Purple Rain - Around the World in a Day - Parade (and the SOTT music ie Dream Factory-Revolution)

♥

I understand where you are coming from, about keeping in that Purple Rain sound. But the Revolution period was very diverse in sound look directions.

♥

If you look into all the music that was being created, experimented with from the Flesh sessions, 'Camille' music, Dream Factory outtakes, the instrumental explorations, the music we call 'Roadhouse Garden' ...Manic Monday, Dance Electric, Dream Factory, Train, Power Fantastic, Go, Adonis & Bathsheba, Around the World in a Day, Condition of the Heart, Others Hear With Us, Our Destiny, Old Friends 4 Sale, Starfish & Coffee, Madrid,Christopher Tracey's Parade, Alexa de Paris, 4 the Tears in Your Eyes, We Can Funk, A Couple Of Miles, Wednesday, Pink Cashmere, Mia Bocca,
Suzy Lovelace, If I Was Your Girlfriend, Strange Relationship, Crystal Ball, Witness 4 the Prosecution, Jerk Out, Screams of Passion, Dear Michangelo, A Love Bizarre, Kiss, Ballad of Dorothy Parker, In a Large Room with No Light, Make Yo Momma Happy, Rebirth of the Flesh, Koo Koo, Crucial, Junk Music, Nothing Compares 2 U, Slaughterhouse, etc etc sorry I got lost..

♥

novabrkr said:

He has every right to be here. If he's just a fan of Prince's 80s output he's still a fan.

I was personally just puzzled over the strong negative reaction towards the Gold era show(s).

No he is not still a fan! If he refuses 2 c Prince, because he has changed since the 80's! He is in a time machine. U can't live in the past! Prince still plays his 80's hits. So he has no reason not to see him live again..Everybody changes & grows.....

Well, that's his choice.

They guy listens to boots and confesses that "Forever In My Life" made him cry ( ). Prince.org is the right place to discuss that stuff.

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

Let me explain. The point I made in my previous post, is that there are many fans who have stated, in their own words, that they wish he was still the Prince of the Purple Rain era; wishing for him to regroup and maintain the Revolution band members, because apparently their (those fans) music interests is of that era, and they probably prefer that for ‘memories’ sake’. So my comment about if Prince was still wearing the 80s type clothes of the PR era today, was comparing that to if he had pigeon-holed himself like that today- musically, image-wise and creatively- performing only music similar or of the 80s PR era, and keeping the Revolution band members vs. taking risks, changing band members, performing various forms of music, working/collaborating with other/introducing/working with new artists. If such was the case, there probably might have never been any room to move forward/change, and therefore, he would have probably been labeled as an ‘oldies’ act.

This may be the reason why many older artists/groups from the past, who were once popular/well-known, failed years later/or today at success-some of whom may still have original band members/added some new members- but failed successfully or limited their potential towards success today, due to not taking risks musically/having a limited music catalog, lack of new music/creativity/new image/promotional backup, etc., which with all or some of these situations, may not have allowed them to ‘move forward’ , towards the level of success they may/would have achieved. Only a handful of artists from the past have been able to do that.

actually it was with the Revolution that the diversity in the music look styles etc really became interesting 1999/Purple Rain - Around the World in a Day - Parade (and the SOTT music ie Dream Factory-Revolution)

♥

I understand where you are coming from, about keeping in that Purple Rain sound. But the Revolution period was very diverse in sound look directions.

♥

If you look into all the music that was being created, experimented with from the Flesh sessions, 'Camille' music, Dream Factory outtakes, the instrumental explorations, the music we call 'Roadhouse Garden' ...Manic Monday, Dance Electric, Dream Factory, Train, Power Fantastic, Go, Adonis & Bathsheba, Around the World in a Day, Condition of the Heart, Others Hear With Us, Our Destiny, Old Friends 4 Sale, Starfish & Coffee, Madrid,Christopher Tracey's Parade, Alexa de Paris, 4 the Tears in Your Eyes, We Can Funk, A Couple Of Miles, Wednesday, Pink Cashmere, Mia Bocca,
Suzy Lovelace, If I Was Your Girlfriend, Strange Relationship, Crystal Ball, Witness 4 the Prosecution, Jerk Out, Screams of Passion, Dear Michangelo, A Love Bizarre, Kiss, Ballad of Dorothy Parker, In a Large Room with No Light, Make Yo Momma Happy, Rebirth of the Flesh, Koo Koo, Crucial, Junk Music, Nothing Compares 2 U, Slaughterhouse, etc etc sorry I got lost..

♥

Yes, good music, but I think he still would have been pigeon-holed, had he stayed with the Revolution band members, and not change his band over the years, especially if they were still performing as 'Prince and the Revolution' today, they would be known as an 'oldies' band. I can see them reuniting with Prince for memories' sake, but not performing together on a regular basis. That's just my opinion, anyone else is welcome to differ, I have no problem with that, since as fans of any artist's music, we have our own tastes. I am also not not saying the Revolution band members didn't make good music with him, I am saying, we probably would have never got a chance to see him work with the skills/creativity of other musicians/artists that became part of his band down the road, had he not separate from the Revolution band members.

When he worked with different musicians/artists, his image changed each time. He no longer portrayed the image of the 'Purple Rain' Prince. If you look at Prince tribute bands today, how are most of the impersonators dressed? Exactly....like that 'typecast' image of Prince from the Purple Rain movie. So maybe it was a good thing he moved on, and showed us a different side of himself, as a musician/performer/creative artist/band leader, and how he works with various artists/musicians, musically and performance-wise.

Side-note:Slightlyoff-topic a bit, but let me clarify some silly rumor that was posted on another site. I don't work for Prince, nor do I have any affiliation with anyone in his camp. I have also never promoted any musician/artist he Prince has worked with, including any musician/artist I have posted about and shared with other members, on this site. I am just a fan of his music, just like I am a fan of other/various musicians' music. I say this to clear up some ridiculous, false, rumored, silliness that I heard was being said about me, on another site, by some strange individual, that I don't know, who was throwing my Org username around for their personal enjoyment. Hope that clears up that nonsense. Anyway, that is all I have to say about that.

Okay, back on topic. As far as the Revolution band members, I am not saying I didn't or don't appreciate the Revolution band members, of course I enjoyed that era, and Prince music of that era, I just don't see anything wrong with any artist/musician, taking risks, and moving on. I still enjoy the many changes that he has made with band members, over the years, and his collaboration with new/established artists/musicians today.


Edited to change 'with' to 'that'

[Edited 1/11/14 5:56am]

How did he manage to kill his career?

In the conservatory, with the lead pipe.

I would say his best career move was Dirty Mind. It's not my favorite record but it solidly cemented Prince as and interesting artist to watch out for. From then on he did not disappoint. Each record for a decade or so continued to bring something new and unheard of before. Whether it was the funky camille voice or the spoken word style of joy or his infamous removal of bass lines or the backwards kick drum of kiss .. there were always interesting sounds and themes .. Dirty Mind was the record that really made him interesting to the world and not just the rnb funk crowd .. it was his cross over move .. his attempt at that Duran Duran money and it probably is the reason he did not fade into obscurity like many other mediocre and generic rnb acts do .. Dirty Mind had the raw experimental basement sound mixed with a far more agressive aproach to sexual themes than he had presented before .. and it just plain kicked ass. Without that record I don't think Prince career would have popped the way it did afterwards.

Prince worst career move was .. I want to say his embrace of rap .. I want to say his dumping the Revolution .. but no .. his worst career move was leaving Warner Brothers .. It wasn't that he sold less or any of that superficial mess .. it was that his focus changed and something left the music .. most likely because he either became too full of himself, or his songs became work without the big record company umbrella to take care of him, and he was distracted by running the business and not just feeling real songs .. probably a combination of all the above mentioned .. but even with Tony M and the break with the Revolution I still felt life in Prince right up until Gold Experience when all hell started breaking loose with Prince ..

On the one hand you might say WB destroyed Prince in his soul .. on the other hand .. did Prince destroy the music industry? He certainly pioneered all this downloading of music as one of the first big names to wholey embrace the tech while dissing the music industry. And most of the record companies are gone. Thanks prince .. Thanks WB .. jeesh they destroyed each other and the industry. Dayum! In an ideal world WB would have negoitated so that Prince had his Masters and Prince maybe would have access to better musicians and promotion and perhaps some industry legends that he wouldnt be averse to hearing some actual critique from .. prince still has great ideas but nobody around to shape them into the proper classic prince songs they should be .. and his instincts tend to ruin his best ideas with rediculously shallow plastic lazy content.

Prince managed to kill his career by rapping and writing bad lyrics.

novabrkr said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

novabrkr said:

He has every right to be here. If he's just a fan of Prince's 80s output he's still a fan.

I was personally just puzzled over the strong negative reaction towards the Gold era show(s).

No he is not still a fan! If he refuses 2 c Prince, because he has changed since the 80's! He is in a time machine. U can't live in the past! Prince still plays his 80's hits. So he has no reason not to see him live again..Everybody changes & grows.....

Everyone that is, except the fams that still think using Prince text speak is cool.

Xibalba said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

No he is not still a fan! If he refuses 2 c Prince, because he has changed since the 80's! He is in a time machine. U can't live in the past! Prince still plays his 80's hits. So he has no reason not to see him live again..Everybody changes & grows.....

Everyone that is, except the fams that still think using Prince text speak is cool.

When U come h3re it will always b that way 4 here 2 eternity. will NEVER change!!!!

I don't understand how he ''killed'' his career when everyone in the music industry respects Prince. He wouldn't have his amazing accolades such as, (Rock & Roll Hall of Fame) if he killed his career.

seanp said:

I don't understand how he ''killed'' his career when everyone in the music industry respects Prince. He wouldn't have his amazing accolades such as, (Rock & Roll Hall of Fame) if he killed his career.

He didn't completely kill his career of course, but I think most will agree that Prince could have managed his career better (as in having more successful albums and sales).

seanp said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

SuperSoulFighter said:

seanp said:

I don't understand how he ''killed'' his career when everyone in the music industry respects Prince. He wouldn't have his amazing accolades such as, (Rock & Roll Hall of Fame) if he killed his career.

U've got that right! But if you stay on this site for a while and you'll realize that folks saying "Prince killed his carreer" actually mean "Prince stopped being what I want him to be." [Edited 1/12/14 3:30am]

Pretty much.

whitesockedfunk said:

thedance said:

I saw the Gold concert in Den Bosch Holland, in early 1995. It was half a year before this album came out and a lot of the new material was played. Cool, but it quickly became "a struggle" to be a fan and to defend this name change to non-fans.

I was at this show and that marked the end of me being an avid fan! I couldn't believe this was the same guy that made me cry when he performed "Forever In My Life" in 1987... I had tickets to the next night's show as well but didn't go because the show truly was horrible.

So what was missing? What was wrong? What was different?

You did not like it, your choice.

But please elaborate a bit more.

[Edited 1/12/14 8:49am]