lwr001 said:

chopingard said:

While I agree with you it's not about the income you can't say Madonna hasn't had a hit since Like A Prayer.... Ray Of Light, Music and Confessions On A Dance Floor were all equal or bigger hits

I'm no expert on U2 but i'm sure they've had loads of hits in the last 20 years

http://m.prnewswire.com/n...86481.html

Um OK how does that prove Madonna & U2 didn't have hits in 20 years

By the way I love that article and I love the way Prince's career has gone. I think he's better off as an independent artist. I think we get loads of free music and I like the scattered nature of his releases.... I like his music at the momment and I think hits and charts aside he is a success and a he's been very clever in getting a career that suits him artisticly and financialy

Please focus on the thread subject.

The OP is inviting opinions on Prince's best and worst career move.

Thanks

L'ange bleu

moderator

chopingard said:

lwr001 said:

http://m.prnewswire.com/n...86481.html

Um OK how does that prove Madonna & U2 didn't have hits in 20 years

By the way I love that article and I love the way Prince's career has gone. I think he's better off as an independent artist. I think we get loads of free music and I like the scattered nature of his releases.... I like his music at the momment and I think hits and charts aside he is a success and a he's been very clever in getting a career that suits him artisticly and financialy

iut doesnt.. i jyust happen to see it on the newswire, and mr moderator , its very hard to say waht a bad career move is.. i'm sure MJ's and his people thougth the o2 gigs were the bestr thing ever at the time..we know how that ended..i'm sure Whitney thought thought the huge record deal with Arista would be her panacea for whatever, we see how that ended..

well lemme see...He's been doing it for over 30 yrs. He basically grew up as a musician and took all of us along for the ride. He got older like his fans did. i think it's just the natural process of things. He still has some gems left in him

1. Why do you need to "defend" your Prince fandom to anyone? Like what you like and all will be cool

2. as a name was no more of a "bad career" move than Under The Cherry Moon, being nude on the cover of Lovesexy, or Graffiti Bridge.

[Edited 1/2/14 20:05pm]

thedance said:

what's Prince best - and worst - career moves... in your opinion..


Imo:

Best career move, was to sign with Warner Bros. in 1977. The WB.-company really was supportive and made him a superstar, world wide, 1982 to 1988.


Imo:

Worst career move, was the symbol name change 1993 to 2000. It was cool in the beginning "Prince is dead - long live the New Power Generation" and all that.. but then became impossible, sometimes emberrassing. I saw the Gold concert in Den Bosch Holland, in early 1995. It was half a year before this album came out and a lot of the new material was played. Cool, but it quickly became "a struggle" to be a fan and to defend this name change to non-fans. It was impossible, no one understood just why he gave up his name for a symbol.

Prince's career never was the same, even when he changed his name back to Prince. He is a living legend that is for sure - the greatest genius of his generation, but today, let's face it, no one (only the true funk soldiers - lol) - no one really cares about Prince's new music anymore.


Don't you agree with me, Prince killed his own career, with some really bad career moves.

U know I'm an artist who doesn't make a dime with his work, most of my friends r artists who struggle to make a daily living and who couldn't make it without French government's money (virtually every artist in France live on government money) and/or odd jobs, and most of the musicians I listen to r independent bands and artists who struggle to sell a few dozen thousands of their albums and get proper recognition, or who have been signed to a major at some point and thanked after 2 or 3 albums because they weren't big seller, condemned to roam in the limbo of unsigned artists (and that includes every one from the MPLS scene save Jam & Lewis), so it's really odd to read that someone who fulfill venues of 10,000 and more, who still manages to sell millions of records, who's considered a living legend of contemporary pop music and who's a multimillionaire has killed his own career. Y'all need to review your premises as to what is a successful career as an artist in general or musician in particular, it's almost insulting to us struggling creators to read that Prince has killed his career: what does it say about our careers?

Prince has had so many high points in his career and most of them highly deserved and respected but also some of those have been real good luck: would we really agree that Batman deserved to be a number one album when say Purple Rain album only reached no.7 (here in UK). None the less all good.

I don't like to pick apart the negatives but I do have to say that the internet controls everything nowadays and I discover all my new music that way including some recommendations fron this site. He needs his own permanent website with an obvious domain name and allow his material to be shared and commented on Youtube, how many of his hits posted on there would have negative comments apart from how he conducts himself? I was at the front at the Hop Farm festival and have some amazing pictures and clips that I dare not post anywhere, I had a warning from youtube, all very oppressive.

However, even now when he plays a show the reviews are always rave and all the ones I went to at the O2 in 2007 and Hop Farm were amazing and a real display of talent. More shows please.

PS where does Prince discover new music?

databank said:

thedance said:

what's Prince best - and worst - career moves... in your opinion..


Imo:

Best career move, was to sign with Warner Bros. in 1977. The WB.-company really was supportive and made him a superstar, world wide, 1982 to 1988.


Imo:

Worst career move, was the symbol name change 1993 to 2000. It was cool in the beginning "Prince is dead - long live the New Power Generation" and all that.. but then became impossible, sometimes emberrassing. I saw the Gold concert in Den Bosch Holland, in early 1995. It was half a year before this album came out and a lot of the new material was played. Cool, but it quickly became "a struggle" to be a fan and to defend this name change to non-fans. It was impossible, no one understood just why he gave up his name for a symbol.

Prince's career never was the same, even when he changed his name back to Prince. He is a living legend that is for sure - the greatest genius of his generation, but today, let's face it, no one (only the true funk soldiers - lol) - no one really cares about Prince's new music anymore.


Don't you agree with me, Prince killed his own career, with some really bad career moves.

U know I'm an artist who doesn't make a dime with his work, most of my friends r artists who struggle to make a daily living and who couldn't make it without French government's money (virtually every artist in France live on government money) and/or odd jobs, and most of the musicians I listen to r independent bands and artists who struggle to sell a few dozen thousands of their albums and get proper recognition, or who have been signed to a major at some point and thanked after 2 or 3 albums because they weren't big seller, condemned to roam in the limbo of unsigned artists (and that includes every one from the MPLS scene save Jam & Lewis), so it's really odd to read that someone who fulfill venues of 10,000 and more, who still manages to sell millions of records, who's considered a living legend of contemporary pop music and who's a multimillionaire has killed his own career. Y'all need to review your premises as to what is a successful career as an artist in general or musician in particular, it's almost insulting to us struggling creators to read that Prince has killed his career: what does it say about our careers?

Thank you....He couldnt have killed his career iif its still going..His leagacy is intact...There were people on here who actually thougth he wouldnt be a 1st round selecty for the RRHOF...Delusinoal bunch they are/were

lwr001 said:

chopingard said:

Um OK how does that prove Madonna & U2 didn't have hits in 20 years

iut doesnt.. i jyust happen to see it on the newswire,

what a great reason to post it as a reply w/quote ...

[Edited 1/3/14 7:51am]

langebleu said:

Please focus on the thread subject.

The OP is inviting opinions on Prince's best and worst career move.

Thanks

L'ange bleu

moderator

the thread title says 'how did he manage to kill his career?' which question is based on the inaccurate assumption that prince has in fact ruined his career.

Soulstar77A said:

lwr001 said:

iut doesnt.. i jyust happen to see it on the newswire,

what a great reason to post it as a reply w/quote ...

[Edited 1/3/14 7:51am]

you are welcome.. i do believe i stated i would be trolling all posts due to snowpocalypse

XxAxX said:

langebleu said:

Please focus on the thread subject.

The OP is inviting opinions on Prince's best and worst career move.

Thanks

L'ange bleu

moderator

the thread title says 'how did he manage to kill his career?' which question is based on the inaccurate assumption that prince has in fact ruined his career.

I think the issue is that perhaps he hasn't "ruined" his career - - he obviously still has one, he's obviously still a respected presence in the music world - - but he could be so much more, could be such a more vital presence in today's music industry which sorely needs someone with the talent of Prince.

The biggest shame of all perhaps is his complete and utter neglect of his back catalog.

NoVideo said:

XxAxX said:

the thread title says 'how did he manage to kill his career?' which question is based on the inaccurate assumption that prince has in fact ruined his career.

I think the issue is that perhaps he hasn't "ruined" his career - - he obviously still has one, he's obviously still a respected presence in the music world - - but he could be so much more, could be such a more vital presence in today's music industry which sorely needs someone with the talent of Prince.

The biggest shame of all perhaps is his complete and utter neglect of his back catalog.

ah the real resason has finally surfaced; if you dont htink he is a vital presense int he business then ......fans are upset that he disregards his catalog and they cant get a mixed copy of the hallway version of computer blue...therefore, everything he does they have a visceral reaction to

joyinrepetition said:

The name change was just to get out his contract with WB! With a unpronouncible symbol, WB has no claim to any of those projects. Prince knew exactly what he was doing

You do know that changing your name does not mean you are relieved of contractual obligations made under your old name, right?

lwr001 said:

joyinrepetition said:

The name change was just to get out his contract with WB! With a unpronouncible symbol, WB has no claim to any of those projects. Prince knew exactly what he was doing, however, I don't think he knew the ramifications and ridicule from the media and casual fans

In hindsight, artists give him major props now for as Mike Bland stated "putting it all on the line for what he believed in"..not too many folks got the courage nor balls to do that...

"Putting it all on the line"? Dude behaved like a spoilt kid and his egotism killed his career, all for a contract HE signed AGAINST THE ADVICE OF HIS ENTOURAGE.

FYI Prince was screwing artists like Margie Cox out of a career while bitching about how WB were soooo evil.

lwr001 said:

Another thing to realize is that this washed up singer has one of the highest , if not the highest performance and licensing fee's n the business...If he sucked, as folks suggest, he wouldnt get his demands met, period!

They aren't met, nobody bothers to use his music. I can demand a fee of $3000/hour for my programming skills, but until somebody hires me for a job and pays me that amount it does not mean a thing.

joyinrepetition said:

lwr001 said:

In hindsight, artists give him major props now for as Mike Bland stated "putting it all on the line for what he believed in"..not too many folks got the courage nor balls to do that...

Half my post got cut off, but your right, Prince was absolutely right in what he did and music contract haven't been the same since.

Utter BS.

databank said:

it's really odd to read that someone who fulfill venues of 10,000 and more, who still manages to sell millions of records, who's considered a living legend of contemporary pop music and who's a multimillionaire has killed his own career.

His albums disappear without a trace and have zero impact on pop culture, whereas they used to be milestones and turned into classics. His concerts are hitstravaganzas because nobody (least of all P himself) gives a shit about the music he's released in the past two decades. He used to be a phenomenal live performer and is now merely an oldies act, handing significant portions of his gigs to untalented backup singers wailing cover versions.

Prince in 2014 is what Prince in 1984 swore to never become. 2014 Prince has got ZILCH in common with 1984 Prince.

Even though I love it, releasing ATWIAD alienated so many new fans.

Releasing If I Was Your Girlfriend as the 2nd single from SOTTs, not releasing Strange Relationship as a single, and not touring the US for SOTTs. This album deserved so much more...

The Lovesexy cover.

The name change

NoVideo said:

I think the issue is that perhaps he hasn't "ruined" his career - - he obviously still has one, he's obviously still a respected presence in the music world - - but he could be so much more, could be such a more vital presence in today's music industry which sorely needs someone with the talent of Prince.

The biggest shame of all perhaps is his complete and utter neglect of his back catalog.

Of course he's ruined his career. What he's currently doing isn't a career, it's just him attempting to keep the money flowing whenever he gets low on cash. Sure, he's respected -- except they always talk about the Prince from 30 years ago, not the one from now. You don't see people covering music he's released in the past 20 years, now do you?

Guess I'll join the discussion since I'm snowed in from the snowstorm. Anyway, I think his best career move was when he parted from the Purple Rain era/Revolution band members. I'm sure some folks will not be happy that is being said. But I don't mean it in a disrespectful way, as I enjoyed the Purple Rain era of that time. By that I mean, by his parting with those band members and moving on with his musice, he left a legacy for himself and the Revolution band members who were involved in the Purple Rain era/and the movie. The movie is still watched every year by new fans/fans from back in the day, so that era will always be attached to his name and those band members. Now although he has moved on from playing music from that era, but still performs some songs from that era, not surprising, because of the musically-diverse audience-fans from the Purple Rain era to present day, where many look forward to hearing some of those songs, for memories sake. So it is not surprising to hear him perform songs like 'LRC', 'Purple Rain', 'TMWU', at previous/recent concerts on that basis. It's like when he parted from the Lovesexy band members/era, occasionally he will perform some songs like , 'Forever in My Life', and a few others. I just feel with both the Purple Rain and LoveSexy eras, he's left quite a legacy for himself/including the band members of both eras, which I will admit for me, those two eras were two of his most memorable for many of his fans--based on the PR movie/music and the fantastic performance of the LoveSexy tour.

I also liked the 3121 era of music/shows through early 2012), along with some former/current NPG band members (including his trio back-up singers and horn section). I'm still trying to get use to the addition of the newest, 3rdeye girl band members as part of his musical family and the addition of others like Andre Gouche-who performs with Prince occasionally, only because I haven't seen them perform much live with Prince, as I've seen with the other band members. My first time seeing the 3rdeyegril members perform with Prince, was at the recent Mohegan Sun show on 12/29/13. I did however liked their performance with Prince in the 'Bambi' vid that was for sale last year, that I purchased, and I unfortunately lost on my computer because it somehow crashed.

I believe if he didn't take chances/risks and moved on from the Revolution band era, then he might have just been limited/sort of stigmatized, to songs from that era. You see this happening with the current Morris Day & the Time band. Not to insult, because I always enjoyed the songs of the Time band, but the present-day, MD & the Time's performance seems to be limited when they perform live, as I've seen them twice live, and they only seem to perform songs the original Time members have sung.

I don't think Prince killed his career at all though. Live shows seems the way to go these days, and considering Prince isn't sign to a label, he seems to do well with live shows, even better than some artists who are considered 'popular' today to the younger generation. Given the state of the music industry, introducing plastic acts/clones they try to pass them over as 'real talent', but many of them fall short or fail to take the originality of artists, and make it into a style of their own, well it is a pleasure to have an artist, who may have had his own influences/inspirations from musiciana/artists before him- may have borrowed from some of their styles, but was creative enough and succeeded at turning their influences/inspiration into a style he can call his own.

I think if some believe he killed his career, that could be either based on some fans' desire to pigeon-hole Prince into the Purple Rain or some other era or some fans desire to design him as what they want him to be as a musician/artist, rather than embracing him as the musician/artist that he is, with his own creative vision and how he chooses to present the music to his audience. Not everyone will like 'all' the music of any artist, no matter how famous/popular they are, but being able to basically fill arenas/sell out concert tix on short notice is not something many artists can do either.

[Edited 1/3/14 10:04am]

lwr001 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

it's really odd to read that someone who fulfill venues of 10,000 and more, who still manages to sell millions of records, who's considered a living legend of contemporary pop music and who's a multimillionaire has killed his own career.

His albums disappear without a trace and have zero impact on pop culture, whereas they used to be milestones and turned into classics. His concerts are hitstravaganzas because nobody (least of all P himself) gives a shit about the music he's released in the past two decades. He used to be a phenomenal live performer and is now merely an oldies act, handing significant portions of his gigs to untalented backup singers wailing cover versions.

Prince in 2014 is what Prince in 1984 swore to never become. 2014 Prince has got ZILCH in common with 1984 Prince.

You're bad faith and you know it so I'm not gonna argue with u: in terms of career Prince is still a major success. I agree that the nostalgia setlists suck, though, but unfortunately most artists of his generation and older do it as well (and none have a significant impact on today's pop either, BTW). It's really sad. The 3rdEyeGirl setlists were more varied, though, I enjoyed that tour and it was the first time since 2002 that I found his live shows refreshing (save the LA 2009 and Montreux 2009 shows).

You and Trevor are the same person having 2 accounts ain't ya? You could trade posts and no one would see the difference

Best - forming the Revolution, making 1999

Worst part 1 ) - Under The Cherry Moon movie

Worst part 2) - making the Revolution 13 members, including guys dancing as members of the band

Worst part 3) - Lovesexy cover

Worst part 4 ) - Graffiti Bridge movie

Worst part 5) - introducing rap to his style/Diamonds & Pearls album

Worst part 6) - releasing the Symbol album

Worst part 7) - Typhoon 'do

Worst part 8) - changing his name to that same stupid symbol

Worst part 9) - cutting hair short and looking like a skinny tranny

Worst part 10) - writing slave on face

Worst part 11) - releasing any new music after Gold

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

it's really odd to read that someone who fulfill venues of 10,000 and more, who still manages to sell millions of records, who's considered a living legend of contemporary pop music and who's a multimillionaire has killed his own career.

His albums disappear without a trace and have zero impact on pop culture, whereas they used to be milestones and turned into classics. His concerts are hitstravaganzas because nobody (least of all P himself) gives a shit about the music he's released in the past two decades. He used to be a phenomenal live performer and is now merely an oldies act, handing significant portions of his gigs to untalented backup singers wailing cover versions.

Prince in 2014 is what Prince in 1984 swore to never become. 2014 Prince has got ZILCH in common with 1984 Prince.

Bart when was the last time you've been to one of his concerts? You seem to criticize shows where your 'presence' was marked 'absent', at the show that you go on 'overtime with no pay' criticizing. Very strange indeed. I mean of course everyone has a right to their opinion about a show/concert of any artist, but you always seem to criticize live concerts you have never attended. Untalented backup singers? I don't think so. With all your critique you would think you've actually been to the majority of his concerts, but instead you listen to bootlegs and speak only about shows you attended 20 years ago. But then you're just being..Bart.

On a side note: Bart, sometimes your critique of Prince's music/concerts, gives the impression of one (the critic) who takes the paintbrush out of the artist's hand and repaints the artist's picture, therefore the painting becomes that of the critic, and no longer the painting of the original, fresh, creative vision of the 'actual' artist. If that's the case, then perhaps your critique comes from a hidden desire from wishing you had the creative vision, music abilities/success of the artist, you obsessively critique, along with your love/hate relationship you've developed for him.

By the way, all 3 of his singers have amazing voices, and can blow some of these so-called current artists off the stage......with a whisper...::whoosh::

[Edited 1/3/14 18:03pm]

BartVanHemelen said:

NoVideo said:

I think the issue is that perhaps he hasn't "ruined" his career - - he obviously still has one, he's obviously still a respected presence in the music world - - but he could be so much more, could be such a more vital presence in today's music industry which sorely needs someone with the talent of Prince.

The biggest shame of all perhaps is his complete and utter neglect of his back catalog.

Of course he's ruined his career. What he's currently doing isn't a career, it's just him attempting to keep the money flowing whenever he gets low on cash. Sure, he's respected -- except they always talk about the Prince from 30 years ago, not the one from now. You don't see people covering music he's released in the past 20 years, now do you?

He still has a career. It's just severely diminished from what it could be.

NoVideo said:

XxAxX said:

the thread title says 'how did he manage to kill his career?' which question is based on the inaccurate assumption that prince has in fact ruined his career.

I think the issue is that perhaps he hasn't "ruined" his career - - he obviously still has one, he's obviously still a respected presence in the music world - - but he could be so much more, could be such a more vital presence in today's music industry which sorely needs someone with the talent of Prince.

The biggest shame of all perhaps is his complete and utter neglect of his back catalog.

regardless of what the FANS think about prince's output and about the fact that he doesn't do what *they* want him to, the reality is that prince is doing what he want to do and his career has not been 'killed'.

XxAxX said:

NoVideo said:

I think the issue is that perhaps he hasn't "ruined" his career - - he obviously still has one, he's obviously still a respected presence in the music world - - but he could be so much more, could be such a more vital presence in today's music industry which sorely needs someone with the talent of Prince.

The biggest shame of all perhaps is his complete and utter neglect of his back catalog.

regardless of what the FANS think about prince's output and about the fact that he doesn't do what *they* want him to, the reality is that prince is doing what he want to do and his career has not been 'killed'.

Is he? Or do you think he'd rather be selling millions of albums and playing before huge sold out arenas across the country? He tried very hard to come back commercially with Musicology, 3121 and Planet Earth, and failed. Perhaps what he's doing is in part because of fear of another failure with launching another major project and watching yet another album sink without a trace. He's coasting.