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Reply #120 posted 03/06/15 5:24pm

XxAxX

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Cerebus said:

XxAxX said:

i'm sorry RenHoek. you work hard here, for no pay and then folks like me get all antsy. i strongly disagree with you on this subject but i am truly sorry for my disrespect.



I don't think there was anything wrong with what you said before, wish you had left it. If the mods want to get involved in discussions and choose to dismiss what people are talking about because they think we're "weirdos" they're going to get strongly worded, passionate replies.

We all have opinions about pretty much everything and they're rarely exactly the same. That's fine, it's one of the things that makes us uniquely individual humans, not herds of animals working on instinct. That being said, it's sad that some people choose to dismiss these things without taking the time to learn and/or protect themselves to the fullest extent possible. Allow one freedome to be taken away and more will follow (it's been proven and it's already happened). Allow one wall of protection to fall and it loosens the supports for all the others. We're living in a dangerously controlled society, not far different from those we regularly look down our noses at in other parts of the world. Choose to remain ignorant if you like, I respect your freedom to do so, if not your actual decision. I think it's wrong, but it's not something I'm holding personally against anybody. There are far more people in the US who would rather ignore the fact that our government, our society, our very way of life, is just steps away from complete collapse than there are those who would choose to educate themselves and try to do something about it. It's been a growing problem in our country for the last couple generations and it's only getting worse. All well and good, but five years from now, ten, however many it is when the realization that we're completely fucked actually sets in for you, remember this thread. Oh, and go watch Citizen Four. lol



thank you for your supportive words, that makes me feel better. i know i have a tendency to be an ass at times, self-editing is not my best feature.

i realized RenHoek has likely had more than enough of having to deal with stuff on this website and i bet it gets really annoying at times. i would hate being a moderator here. and even though i sometimes feel the mods here do less than a stellar job, they should have at least one get-out-of-jail free card and not be subjected to personal insults even though they use personal insults themselves

that being said, i completely agree with you as far as the dangers of complacency about our surveillance society. imo it's a serious erosion of our rights, but i'm not sure how to convince people who don't see it.

[Edited 3/8/15 5:37am]

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Reply #121 posted 03/07/15 4:41am

TonyVanDam

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Cerebus said:

CarrieMpls said:


If I had pictures of you there and you asked me to take them down I would. I'd take down anyone's pics who asked. I don't have children, so that's not a concern.

The thing is, most folks want to share their pictures and see the pics taken of them. I do not post pictures that depict anyone in a less than flattering light. I hate when folks post unflattering pics of me, so I can only do the same favor for my friends and loved ones.

I'm not sure what harm you think will come by sharing innocent pictures of people. What can be known, other than my friends can identify other people in my pictures. And everyone can set their own settings on whether they are allowed to be tagged/identified in pics anyway. There's a lot of mutual respect that goes on between me and my friends and family.



Everything you share on Facebook, including those pics, is being stored FOREVER for other people to view and use as they see fit. It doesn't matter what you and your family want or what you do with them. It's what is being done with them behind the scenes. Once you post them they are not just your anymore.

And for the record, there are MANY ways to protect yourself online. ... yeah, just, believe me, there are ways.


TRANSLATION: metadatabase. nod

Any picture of an person that places him/her is a very negative light (especially if it's something sexual and/or downright racist) can and will come back to haunt that person to the point of even ruining his/her career. Believe that.

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Reply #122 posted 03/07/15 7:03am

Graycap23

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TonyVanDam said:

Cerebus said:



Everything you share on Facebook, including those pics, is being stored FOREVER for other people to view and use as they see fit. It doesn't matter what you and your family want or what you do with them. It's what is being done with them behind the scenes. Once you post them they are not just your anymore.

And for the record, there are MANY ways to protect yourself online. ... yeah, just, believe me, there are ways.


TRANSLATION: metadatabase. nod

Any picture of an person that places him/her is a very negative light (especially if it's something sexual and/or downright racist) can and will come back to haunt that person to the point of even ruining his/her career. Believe that.

Anything u say........can and WILL BE USED AGAINST U.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #123 posted 03/08/15 5:56am

XxAxX

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^ dang right. even when you say something true and something opinion based, or protected by law such as freedom of religion and political choice, folks will attack.

remember the McCarthy era? people's entire livelihoods were destroyed over even the mere suspicion that they might have been *gasp* socialists. mind you, this was waaaay back in the 1940s. imagine what is in place today

McCarthy Era

Era of Political Conformity and Loyalty

As World War II ended, Americans' fear of Germans and Japanese was transferred onto the communist Soviet Union. Though the Soviets had been their allies during the war, Americans began to see them as a threat. The Soviets had a nuclear bomb and were aggressively expanding their influence into Europe and Africa. China was soon taken over by communists.

The American Communist Party, other left-wing organizations, and minority groups - including African-Americans, Native Americans, and various immigrant groups - became targets of suspicion, surveillance, and infiltration. Ethel and Julius Rosenberg's trial and execution for conspiring to steal secrets of the atomic bomb convinced many Americans that communist spies were among them. Propaganda films such as "Red Nightmare" and "Duck and Cover" further fueled this anxiety. The Truman Doctrine of 1947 expanded the battle, authorizing financial support for foreign governments fighting communism.

Domestically, the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC) was charged with uncovering and identifying "anti-American" or "pro-communist" activities. A federal employee loyalty program was instituted in 1947 to preclude the employment of "disloyal Americans." Local governments, public institutions, and private companies, as well as universities and labor unions, quickly fell in line by instituting their own loyalty programs and dismissing employees suspected of having ties to communism.

The FBI played a crucial part by conducting surveillance, pressuring employers to hire or fire particular individuals, and by feeding information to the media to influence public opinion. J. Edgar Hoover created COINTELPRO, a program designed to neutralize political dissidents by sowing seeds of dissention within organizations and leaking derogatory information to the media and law enforcement. The FBI also disseminated damaging information on individuals to members of Congress to influence public opinion about the communist threat.

Sen. Joseph McCarthy's anti-communist crusade, dating from 1950 and heightened during his chairmanship of the Senate Committee on Government Operations, rose to legendary ferocity. Although Congress censured the Wisconsin Republican in 1954, the legacy of fear and suspicion McCarthy helped create lived on through the 1970's, as evidenced by FBI surveillance of the civil rights movement and Vietnam era anti-war demonstrations.

[Edited 3/8/15 6:38am]

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Reply #124 posted 03/08/15 6:01am

SquirrelMeat

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Cerebus said:

SquirrelMeat said:

I love facebook. It helps keeping in regular contact with old friends and distant family.

I'm fully aware of the data implications (it part of my job), but I'm also careful what I post and what I share.

Sure its an advertising vehicle, but I block them all. It's naive to think that Facebook is any better or worse if someone wants to find out about you. Email, online banking, electoral registers, company databases. Its all available if you know where to find it.

Generally, you either have to be online or offline.

I could find out far more about you even without Facebook that you dreamed possible.



You're completely missing the point; Facebook is gathering and selling your habits and personal imformation to those companies. At best, they're giving it to them freely. And while what you say is partially true, it's not easy, and it's not true for everyone. I can put my real name in any search engine and find nothing. You can do address searches trying to find my name and you'll get nothing. You can reverse look up my phone numbers and you will find nothing connected to my real name or addresses. I'd be interested in knowing how you believe you can find out anything about someone via online banking as that is not public information. Electoral registers, sure, if you know what you're looking for and how to use them. However, I've been registered to vote since I was 18 and have never missed an election. You will not find anything about me in that regard unless you are searching for my name specifically within those data sets, and who is doing that? It is NOT hard to remain private, even anonymous, if that's what you choose to do. The point is that Facebook has access to information about more than 1/7 of the world's population and that they are using for financial gain and they aren't keeping it private.



I'm not missing the point, I simply don't subscribe to the view that there is some sinister purpose beyond what I agree to sign up to.

So Facebook use my data to work out habits for the purpose of advertising? Of course. That's their business model. Thats why its free. Targeted advertising plain a simple. If someone doesn't like that, fine, simply don't use Facebook.

Personally, I don't put too much up on it, I use it as a general comunnication tool, but when I do put a picture up, so what? I own and will always own the intellectual property rights.

There are far more advanced ways for profiling someone than facebook. All digital communictions, CCTV, ANPR, bookings, shopping etc etc.

I would rather not be bombarded by advertising, and prefer social networks like Ello, but so far, they have be unable to gain enough traction.

.
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Reply #125 posted 03/09/15 8:22pm

kewlschool

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SquirrelMeat said:

Cerebus said:



You're completely missing the point; Facebook is gathering and selling your habits and personal imformation to those companies. At best, they're giving it to them freely. And while what you say is partially true, it's not easy, and it's not true for everyone. I can put my real name in any search engine and find nothing. You can do address searches trying to find my name and you'll get nothing. You can reverse look up my phone numbers and you will find nothing connected to my real name or addresses. I'd be interested in knowing how you believe you can find out anything about someone via online banking as that is not public information. Electoral registers, sure, if you know what you're looking for and how to use them. However, I've been registered to vote since I was 18 and have never missed an election. You will not find anything about me in that regard unless you are searching for my name specifically within those data sets, and who is doing that? It is NOT hard to remain private, even anonymous, if that's what you choose to do. The point is that Facebook has access to information about more than 1/7 of the world's population and that they are using for financial gain and they aren't keeping it private.



I'm not missing the point, I simply don't subscribe to the view that there is some sinister purpose beyond what I agree to sign up to.

So Facebook use my data to work out habits for the purpose of advertising? Of course. That's their business model. Thats why its free. Targeted advertising plain a simple. If someone doesn't like that, fine, simply don't use Facebook.

Personally, I don't put too much up on it, I use it as a general comunnication tool, but when I do put a picture up, so what? I own and will always own the intellectual property rights.

There are far more advanced ways for profiling someone than facebook. All digital communictions, CCTV, ANPR, bookings, shopping etc etc.

I would rather not be bombarded by advertising, and prefer social networks like Ello, but so far, they have be unable to gain enough traction.

You agree to waive certain intellectual rights when you sign up for facebook. That's why they can use your or anyone's pictures for dating adds. However, facebook shares all info with the gov't.

99.9% of everything I say is strictly for my own entertainment
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Reply #126 posted 03/09/15 11:12pm

NinaB

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Thanks for the heads up on the documentary, I don't have hbo but caught it on YouTube before it was taken down.
"We just let people talk & say whatever they want 2 say. 9 times out of 10, trust me, what's out there now, I wouldn't give nary one of these folks the time of day. That's why I don't say anything back, because there's so much that's wrong" - P, Dec '15
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Reply #127 posted 03/13/15 7:34am

Slave2daGroove

SquirrelMeat said:

Cerebus said:



You're completely missing the point; Facebook is gathering and selling your habits and personal imformation to those companies. At best, they're giving it to them freely. And while what you say is partially true, it's not easy, and it's not true for everyone. I can put my real name in any search engine and find nothing. You can do address searches trying to find my name and you'll get nothing. You can reverse look up my phone numbers and you will find nothing connected to my real name or addresses. I'd be interested in knowing how you believe you can find out anything about someone via online banking as that is not public information. Electoral registers, sure, if you know what you're looking for and how to use them. However, I've been registered to vote since I was 18 and have never missed an election. You will not find anything about me in that regard unless you are searching for my name specifically within those data sets, and who is doing that? It is NOT hard to remain private, even anonymous, if that's what you choose to do. The point is that Facebook has access to information about more than 1/7 of the world's population and that they are using for financial gain and they aren't keeping it private.



I'm not missing the point, I simply don't subscribe to the view that there is some sinister purpose beyond what I agree to sign up to.

So Facebook use my data to work out habits for the purpose of advertising? Of course. That's their business model. Thats why its free. Targeted advertising plain a simple. If someone doesn't like that, fine, simply don't use Facebook.

Personally, I don't put too much up on it, I use it as a general comunnication tool, but when I do put a picture up, so what? I own and will always own the intellectual property rights.

There are far more advanced ways for profiling someone than facebook. All digital communictions, CCTV, ANPR, bookings, shopping etc etc.

I would rather not be bombarded by advertising, and prefer social networks like Ello, but so far, they have be unable to gain enough traction.


I feel this way exactly.

Did you know anytime you walk into a grocery store you are being manipulated? It's one reason why milk is in the back and candy is in the checkout isle. If people don't realize that even when they're not using facebook someone is always attempting to identify and manipulate their behavior.

It's a fact but life moves on and things of more importance are out there to experience. Some of these people don't realize that death comes quicker then we expect and at the end, nobody is giving two shits about who's watching them do what.

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Reply #128 posted 03/17/15 12:37pm

SquirrelMeat

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kewlschool said:

SquirrelMeat said:



I'm not missing the point, I simply don't subscribe to the view that there is some sinister purpose beyond what I agree to sign up to.

So Facebook use my data to work out habits for the purpose of advertising? Of course. That's their business model. Thats why its free. Targeted advertising plain a simple. If someone doesn't like that, fine, simply don't use Facebook.

Personally, I don't put too much up on it, I use it as a general comunnication tool, but when I do put a picture up, so what? I own and will always own the intellectual property rights.

There are far more advanced ways for profiling someone than facebook. All digital communictions, CCTV, ANPR, bookings, shopping etc etc.

I would rather not be bombarded by advertising, and prefer social networks like Ello, but so far, they have be unable to gain enough traction.

You agree to waive certain intellectual rights when you sign up for facebook. That's why they can use your or anyone's pictures for dating adds. However, facebook shares all info with the gov't.



How did you come to that conclusion? The only part of the agreement is that they can use your name and profile picture for advertsing your 'likes' (Example, you get a post that says 'Friend X like Amazon).

There is no loss of intellectual rights. They cannot 'sell' those to a third party anymore than a store's CCTV can be used without blocking your face out, unless you allow it.

There seems to a lot of 'myths' about what Facebook can do and most of it is false. Before Christmas, there were lots of people posting a statement on their facebook accounts; a cut and paste 'Legal Declaration' to retain their rights. It was total bogus. But never underestimate the power of the gulible.

Ref the Governments....they already know more about you than Facebook ever will. Google is even worse.

.
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Reply #129 posted 03/17/15 2:14pm

PurpleJedi

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sigh

By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
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Reply #130 posted 03/19/15 3:59am

TD3

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The Mall of America Reportedly Used Facebook To Track Activists

=============================

[Edited 3/19/15 3:59am]

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