dJJ said:

Timmy84 said:

THE ONLY PERSON TO HAVE COMMON SENSE IN THIS! Islam is NOT to blame for this. Motherfuckers better stop believing what they read. I can't believe this country. You motherfuckers. The uncle is right!

Did you notice that one of his groups he was part of on his vk website shows all the vlags that represent pure white area?

But, yes, you are very political correct.

But it doesn't seem these kids were that political correct about people of a different race, gender or religion.

Oh please. So let's just say he was a "Muslim", doesn't mean people should blame it on his religion.

Timmy84 said:

dJJ said:

Did you notice that one of his groups he was part of on his vk website shows all the vlags that represent pure white area?

But, yes, you are very political correct.

But it doesn't seem these kids were that political correct about people of a different race, gender or religion.

Oh please. So let's just say he was a "Muslim", doesn't mean people should blame it on his religion.

If his religion had nothing to do with it, that would be silly indeed.

.

.

Unfortunately, imams their preaches is 90% directed at hating non-Muslim people.

.

Jihad is no joke.

.

Why do you want to deny that Islam has nothing to do with these bombing?

.

I don't think anyone's in any doubt that there have indeed been Muslim terrorists who've looked to their own twisted conception of the religion to justify the unjustifiable; just like homegrown 'patriots' like Timothy McVeigh have that concept twisted into a form most Americans who are proud of their country wouldn't recognise. The problem is when we get into generalisations imbued with paranoid, stereotyped fantasies that seem to come from some trashy post-9/11 drama even a Fox producer would probably have winced at.
.

dJJ said:

It seems the guy is convinced (as are most Muslims are told by their leaders) that the USA is responsible for all the misery in the world.
.

He's brainwashed in the Mosks,

thinking he's entitled to the sole truth because he's a Muslim.

Convinced by his religious leaders that they are obliged to Allah to kill the people who are not Muslim.

And he blames all his personal misery to the "Evil Corporation" (see website left bottom cornor)

Brothers grew up in a very agressive political climate.

They are more used to violence than to sharing views by discussion.

And solving conflicts by negotiating is probably alien to them, as they have only been tought to fight.

The simple fact is most Muslims don't go around blowing people up, oppose and condemn those who do, and dislike getting tarred with the same brush by narrow-minded people who really need to get out and have dinner and a chat with a few actual Muslims before they go parading their prejudice online.

BBC News, 'Boston Muslims react to marathon bombs'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...a-22200071

deebee said:

I don't think anyone's in any doubt that there have indeed been Muslim terrorists who've looked to their own twisted conception of the religion to justify the unjustifiable; just like homegrown 'patriots' like Timothy McVeigh have that concept twisted into a form most Americans who are proud of their country wouldn't recognise. The problem is when we get into generalisations imbued with paranoid, stereotyped fantasies that seem to come from some trashy post-9/11 drama even a Fox producer would probably have winced at.
.

dJJ said:

It seems the guy is convinced (as are most Muslims are told by their leaders) that the USA is responsible for all the misery in the world.
.

He's brainwashed in the Mosks,

thinking he's entitled to the sole truth because he's a Muslim.

Convinced by his religious leaders that they are obliged to Allah to kill the people who are not Muslim.

And he blames all his personal misery to the "Evil Corporation" (see website left bottom cornor)

Brothers grew up in a very agressive political climate.

They are more used to violence than to sharing views by discussion.

And solving conflicts by negotiating is probably alien to them, as they have only been tought to fight.

The simple fact is most Muslims don't go around blowing people up, oppose and condemn those who do, and dislike getting tarred with the same brush by narrow-minded people who really need to get out and have dinner and a chat with a few actual Muslims before they go parading their prejudice online.

BBC News, 'Boston Muslims react to marathon bombs'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...a-22200071

THANK YOU! That's all I'm saying. People are desperately making it seem like every Muslim wants us killed. FUCK OUTTA HERE with that!

Timmy84 said:

deebee said:

I don't think anyone's in any doubt that there have indeed been Muslim terrorists who've looked to their own twisted conception of the religion to justify the unjustifiable; just like homegrown 'patriots' like Timothy McVeigh have that concept twisted into a form most Americans who are proud of their country wouldn't recognise. The problem is when we get into generalisations imbued with paranoid, stereotyped fantasies that seem to come from some trashy post-9/11 drama even a Fox producer would probably have winced at.
.

The simple fact is most Muslims don't go around blowing people up, oppose and condemn those who do, and dislike getting tarred with the same brush by narrow-minded people who really need to get out and have dinner and a chat with a few actual Muslims before they go parading their prejudice online.

BBC News, 'Boston Muslims react to marathon bombs'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...a-22200071

THANK YOU! That's all I'm saying. People are desperately making it seem like every Muslim wants us killed. FUCK OUTTA HERE with that!

And that idea starts to circulate, and then you get crap like this: http://www.boston.com/201...story.html

and then I think - as every1 is glued to all this drama...what's really going on?

deebee said:

Timmy84 said:

THANK YOU! That's all I'm saying. People are desperately making it seem like every Muslim wants us killed. FUCK OUTTA HERE with that!

And that idea starts to circulate, and then you get crap like this: http://www.boston.com/201...story.html

There you have it. That's why it's disgusting to have an anti-Muslim in general view just because some who are Muslims (either converted or whatever) do some idiotic bullshit like this. You never get that with other religions but people just love to fuck with anyone who is a Muslim.

dJJ said:

Timmy84 said:

Oh please. So let's just say he was a "Muslim", doesn't mean people should blame it on his religion.

If his religion had nothing to do with it, that would be silly indeed.

.

.

Unfortunately, imams their preaches is 90% directed at hating non-Muslim people.

.

Jihad is no joke.

.

Why do you want to deny that Islam has nothing to do with these bombing?

.

Because in every belief system there are different degrees and categories of legalism, fervor, fundamentalism, and as such there is a difference between being Muslim and Islamist..

In my view, I believe Timmy is referring to Muslims as a whole, a good number of which are not hell bent on blowing the US up into smithereens, no more than not all Christians are hate mongering gun-toting fools like the cult which is the Westboro Baptist Church, which to me as a practicing Baptist is an absolute embarrassment to Christianity and humanity, and a church that doesn't exactly make us look good here in Germany where they used to burn us several centuries ago because they thought we were warmongers & crazy as hell, not much unlike the Muslims of today across the world.

Look, there have been plenty of American Muslims existing in America for decade upon decade, a good percentage of which are African Americans (and relatives of ours) who have gone without blowing shit up across the country, even with the inhumanities they experienced within the Civil Rights struggle.

Additionally, one of the great cornerstones of the American justice system is the concept "innocent until proven guilty", and this applies to people of all races, colors, creeds, AND religions. We are a country that was initially settled by those seeking refuge from religous persecution, so even in spite of where we have failed in our human rights record as a nation, freedom of religious persecution is THE ONE area and perhaps LAST bastion of fairness and objectivity where we strive to refrain from using sweeping generalizations to categorize, deomonize, and villify entire groups of people.

..and with that, I will stop, because we are venturing too too far into the politics and religion arena, and in danger of gaving this thread moved.

I don't want a thread that is meant to support the marathon supporters, the injured, the fallen & the brave first responders of this tragedy in Boston to turn into "belief system" bickering.

[Edited 4/19/13 13:30pm]

^ Right. Didn't Luv say if you wanna talk about the political/religious aspect of it, go to the thread on that there? I guess some folks forgot.

But yeah religion =/= hatred. I'm so tired of that argument.

deebee said:

I don't think anyone's in any doubt that there have indeed been Muslim terrorists who've looked to their own twisted conception of the religion to justify the unjustifiable; just like homegrown 'patriots' like Timothy McVeigh have that concept twisted into a form most Americans who are proud of their country wouldn't recognise. The problem is when we get into generalisations imbued with paranoid, stereotyped fantasies that seem to come from some trashy post-9/11 drama even a Fox producer would probably have winced at.
.

dJJ said:

It seems the guy is convinced (as are most Muslims are told by their leaders) that the USA is responsible for all the misery in the world.
.

He's brainwashed in the Mosks,

thinking he's entitled to the sole truth because he's a Muslim.

Convinced by his religious leaders that they are obliged to Allah to kill the people who are not Muslim.

And he blames all his personal misery to the "Evil Corporation" (see website left bottom cornor)

Brothers grew up in a very agressive political climate.

They are more used to violence than to sharing views by discussion.

And solving conflicts by negotiating is probably alien to them, as they have only been tought to fight.

The simple fact is most Muslims don't go around blowing people up, oppose and condemn those who do, and dislike getting tarred with the same brush by narrow-minded people who really need to get out and have dinner and a chat with a few actual Muslims before they go parading their prejudice online.

BBC News, 'Boston Muslims react to marathon bombs'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...a-22200071

Deebee, I will also add that in my experience living bi-continentally since the 1990's, it is my understanding that many immigrant Muslims here in the EU don't readily assimilate into their host countries, so I have noticed a lot more cultural tension here between Muslim/Non-Muslims here than at home in the US. I hope djj doesn't take offense, but I am of the personal opinion that this very issue is where her views may stem from, and although her views are shocking to an American- because we have generally have had a different experience with the Muslim religion in America in the past (insofar as immigrants converts, etc.)--still there is validity to what she's saying as it comes from her own formative experience.

I think we're at a point where everyone is entering the conversation at this point based on their formative experiences...I think...I guess

Ottensen said:

deebee said:

I don't think anyone's in any doubt that there have indeed been Muslim terrorists who've looked to their own twisted conception of the religion to justify the unjustifiable; just like homegrown 'patriots' like Timothy McVeigh have that concept twisted into a form most Americans who are proud of their country wouldn't recognise. The problem is when we get into generalisations imbued with paranoid, stereotyped fantasies that seem to come from some trashy post-9/11 drama even a Fox producer would probably have winced at.
.

The simple fact is most Muslims don't go around blowing people up, oppose and condemn those who do, and dislike getting tarred with the same brush by narrow-minded people who really need to get out and have dinner and a chat with a few actual Muslims before they go parading their prejudice online.

BBC News, 'Boston Muslims react to marathon bombs'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...a-22200071

Deebee, I will also add that in my experience living bi-continentally since the 1990's, it is my understanding that many immigrant Muslims here in the EU don't readily assimilate into their host countries, so I have noticed a lot more cultural tension here between Muslim/Non-Muslims here than at home in the US. I hope djj doesn't take offense, but I am of the personal opinion that this very issue is where her views may stem from, and although her views are shocking to an American- because we have generally have had a different experience with the Muslim religion in America in the past (insofar as immigrants converts, etc.)--still there is validity to what she's saying as it comes from her own formative experience.

I think we're at a point where everyone is entering the conversation at this point based on their formative experiences...I think...I guess

As much as I understand why djj would go that way, it's still wrong to assume things. I understand but a few killers shouldn't have people have wrong opinions about that religion. Look at the bad rep Christianity get just because some folks who claim they are Christians do some foul shit too. No one seems to wanna blame the individual for wrongdoing but the religion associated with that individual and that's what has me upset.

dJJ said:

News in Holland is behind.

.

Did you read the article McDaddy posted?

.

Seems it wasn't just 2 guys behind this.

.

It was an organised act, it seems.

.

.

.

Girl, I need you to tune in to CNN or broadcast American news online if you don't have it on your TV, so you can catch the "play by play".

Breaking News & Top Stories - World News, US & Local | NBC News

CNN.com International - Breaking, World, Business, Sports, Entertainment and Video News



It's very enlightening to see things as they are happening and get a more raw, unfiltered, and immediate picture of the what and who involved....having an opportunity to hear the school friends, teachers, and relatives of the hunted has been an eye opening experience, and makes this whole scenario a lot less black and white than it would seem at first glance. There's a lot of "grey" and unknowns in this tragedy.. .

Ottensen said:

deebee said:

I don't think anyone's in any doubt that there have indeed been Muslim terrorists who've looked to their own twisted conception of the religion to justify the unjustifiable; just like homegrown 'patriots' like Timothy McVeigh have that concept twisted into a form most Americans who are proud of their country wouldn't recognise. The problem is when we get into generalisations imbued with paranoid, stereotyped fantasies that seem to come from some trashy post-9/11 drama even a Fox producer would probably have winced at.
.

The simple fact is most Muslims don't go around blowing people up, oppose and condemn those who do, and dislike getting tarred with the same brush by narrow-minded people who really need to get out and have dinner and a chat with a few actual Muslims before they go parading their prejudice online.

BBC News, 'Boston Muslims react to marathon bombs'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...a-22200071

Deebee, I will also add that in my experience living bi-continentally since the 1990's, it is my understanding that many immigrant Muslims here in the EU don't readily assimilate into their host countries, so I have noticed a lot more cultural tension here between Muslim/Non-Muslims here than at home in the US. I hope djj doesn't take offense, but I am of the personal opinion that this very issue is where her views may stem from, and although her views are shocking to an American- because we have generally have had a different experience with the Muslim religion in America in the past (insofar as immigrants converts, etc.)--still there is validity to what she's saying as it comes from her own formative experience.

I think we're at a point where everyone is entering the conversation at this point based on their formative experiences...I think...I guess

I'm not a simplistic Fox news copy cat.

And I'm a fierce opponent of Geert Wilders.

But I'm just not very naive ANYMORE about how Muslim Institutions influence Muslims.

And the consequences of it.

I leaave the subject as it is.

And I hope that I'm wrong.

Unfortunately, I haven't been wrong about a lot of my fears that I've posted.

And I can assure you, I really want to be wrong about this.

CNN has reported that gunshots rang out in Watertown. Suspect may be cornered somewhere in a neighborhood.

local news just said suspect is in custody.

Ottensen said:

dJJ said:

News in Holland is behind.

.

Did you read the article McDaddy posted?

.

Seems it wasn't just 2 guys behind this.

.

It was an organised act, it seems.

.

.

.

Girl, I need you to tune in to CNN or broadcast American news online if you don't have it on your TV, so you can catch the "play by play".

Breaking News & Top Stories - World News, US & Local | NBC News

CNN.com International - Breaking, World, Business, Sports, Entertainment and Video News



It's very enlightening to see things as they are happening and get a more raw, unfiltered, and immediate picture of the what and who involved....having an opportunity to hear the school friends, teachers, and relatives of the hunted has been an eye opening experience, and makes this whole scenario a lot less black and white than it would seem at first glance. There's a lot of "grey" and unknowns in this tragedy.. .

I would also suggest to get news from other sources, not just CNN/ABC/NBC.

Here is a good site for instance from www.democracynow.org

Timmy84 said:

Ottensen said:

Deebee, I will also add that in my experience living bi-continentally since the 1990's, it is my understanding that many immigrant Muslims here in the EU don't readily assimilate into their host countries, so I have noticed a lot more cultural tension here between Muslim/Non-Muslims here than at home in the US. I hope djj doesn't take offense, but I am of the personal opinion that this very issue is where her views may stem from, and although her views are shocking to an American- because we have generally have had a different experience with the Muslim religion in America in the past (insofar as immigrants converts, etc.)--still there is validity to what she's saying as it comes from her own formative experience.

I think we're at a point where everyone is entering the conversation at this point based on their formative experiences...I think...I guess

As much as I understand why djj would go that way, it's still wrong to assume things. I understand but a few killers shouldn't have people have wrong opinions about that religion. Look at the bad rep Christianity get just because some folks who claim they are Christians do some foul shit too. No one seems to wanna blame the individual for wrongdoing but the religion associated with that individual and that's what has me upset.

I don't discriminate that way.

I think both Muslim institutions and Cristian institutions,

are used as means to excert power over believers,

by people with a wrong sense of grandiosity.

And I think it's the responsebility of the religeous followers to know what the consequences are of their support to these institutions.



That is exactly why I don't trust anybody on a high horse that consist of religeous dogma's.




I think the same about Christians who do wrong to eg. gay people in the name of Christ as I think about people who kill in the name of Allah.


If you want to be an ethical responsible person you can be by your deeds.

Shouting loud that you belong to a religeous group and thinking that is proof of your individual ethics, does not do it for me.

Timmy84 said:

deebee said:

I don't think anyone's in any doubt that there have indeed been Muslim terrorists who've looked to their own twisted conception of the religion to justify the unjustifiable; just like homegrown 'patriots' like Timothy McVeigh have that concept twisted into a form most Americans who are proud of their country wouldn't recognise. The problem is when we get into generalisations imbued with paranoid, stereotyped fantasies that seem to come from some trashy post-9/11 drama even a Fox producer would probably have winced at.
.

The simple fact is most Muslims don't go around blowing people up, oppose and condemn those who do, and dislike getting tarred with the same brush by narrow-minded people who really need to get out and have dinner and a chat with a few actual Muslims before they go parading their prejudice online.

BBC News, 'Boston Muslims react to marathon bombs'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...a-22200071

THANK YOU! That's all I'm saying. People are desperately making it seem like every Muslim wants us killed. FUCK OUTTA HERE with that!

I interact with Muslim people on a daily bases.

Funny thing is that they like me, and do their best to come up with rationalisations for that.

Because they are thought not to like me by their imams.

It is you who is assuming that I would be a narrow minded person because I mention the relation between Muslim institutions and violence against non-Muslim people.

I do think that every individual person who follows certain strict Muslim leaders,

have the personal responsibility to be actively challenging the violence in the name of Allah.
If they choose to not do that, they are as much to blame for the wars in the name of religion as their leaders.

An interesting view published by The BRICS post: http://thebricspost.com/b...XJ2ziv8-a4

MacDaddy said:

An interesting view published by The BRICS post: http://thebricspost.com/b...XJ2ziv8-a4

I don't understand what is surprising about it.

For centuries warlords choose young males for their purpose to gain power.

-Young males are agressive (testosteron), very useful for battle.

-Young males don't have a family of their own.

Males tend to become responsible and not as eager to fight for somebody else's gain.

-Young males strive for adrenaline kicks, and a war offers that in abundance.

-Young males have not an identity of their own yet. But do want to be seen as a leader of the pact. As an alpha male. That is what war lords offert them, so they can use these young guys for their own gain.

Belgium is trying hard to prevent that their young males from Maroccon and Turkish heritage will not be scouted for the military training camps in Turkey, Syria and other countries. Because these young kids are trained and used for the gains of Muslim institutions to fight a war.

Same thing happening in Holland.
These Dutch kids should be in school, have friends, work and enjoy life.

In stead they get hyped up by imams and used as weaponry in wars that don't serve these kids or their family at all. They only people it servers are those who are leading these Muslim institutions.


And I have the same opinion about Christian institutions that use young people for their own gains.

Or whatever institution that uses violence against other human beings.

The city of Hamburg, Germany stands in solidarity with the the fallen victims, the injured, and brave first responders and race supporters affected by this tragedy. Our sister race, the Hamburg Marathon is tomorrow (Sunday April 21st), and memorial bracelets representing the colors of the Boston Marathon will be dispensed in respect for the events of this past week.

Marathon Hamburg

I am glad they got him alive. Now we can find stuff out!

violectrica said:

I am glad they got him alive. Now we can find stuff out!

yeah, but this American flag waving bullshit makes me sick

MacDaddy said:

Ottensen said:

Girl, I need you to tune in to CNN or broadcast American news online if you don't have it on your TV, so you can catch the "play by play".

Breaking News & Top Stories - World News, US & Local | NBC News

CNN.com International - Breaking, World, Business, Sports, Entertainment and Video News



It's very enlightening to see things as they are happening and get a more raw, unfiltered, and immediate picture of the what and who involved....having an opportunity to hear the school friends, teachers, and relatives of the hunted has been an eye opening experience, and makes this whole scenario a lot less black and white than it would seem at first glance. There's a lot of "grey" and unknowns in this tragedy.. .

I would also suggest to get news from other sources, not just CNN/ABC/NBC.

Here is a good site for instance from www.democracynow.org

Definitely, particularly when it comes to getting a political breakdown/analysis, etc.

But I wanted to suggest American broadcast news channels because of their level of access, on the ground, closer to the people, bringing you up close and personal to the average Joe on the Boston street to hear how this ordeal was affecting them in their own words, without pundits going back and forth. Sometimes we get so lost in what the talking heads have to say that we forget to listen to the people closest to our biggest stories, and while we're vollying theories and rhetoric around we miss the chance to hear what's on a person's heart.

3rdeyedude said:

yeah, but this American flag waving bullshit makes me sick

Really? Why?

This basically sums up the general feeling in Beantown ...

paintedlady said:

3rdeyedude said:

yeah, but this American flag waving bullshit makes me sick

Really? Why?

THERE you are! Right after it was reported they stopped bus & taxi service in Boston, I was waiting for you to check in again

Ottensen said:

paintedlady said:

Really? Why?

THERE you are! Right after it was reported they stopped bus & taxi service in Boston, I was waiting for you to check in again

I am good

paintedlady said:

3rdeyedude said:

yeah, but this American flag waving bullshit makes me sick

Really? Why?

Because it smacks of immaturity, provincialism, and xenophobia. The Boston Marathon isn't just a regional track competition, its a prestigious Marathon race that brings people to Boston from around world as participants and onlookers. A Chinese college student was killed and I'll assume some of those who were maimed were foreign visitor's.

I admire those who ran towards the smoke to help those who had been hurt. I read stories of Bostonians along the marathon route coming out of their homes offering clothing, food, and shelter. I'm certain for those who may not have insurance or who are underinsured, their medically needs will be taken care of. This doesn't surprise me one bit because the best of who we are as a nation, when needed we step up and help.

But at times we can be less than humble and gracious. What happened last week in Boston didn't call for a "prep rally"; it should have called use to "stay calm and carry on."

By the way....

I thought Mr. Ortiz's comments were crass and embarrassing; the F-bomb should not have came from his lips. (IMHO) That's the way I perceived things....

===================================

[Edited 4/21/13 13:10pm]

[Edited 4/21/13 14:20pm]

TD3 said:

paintedlady said:

Really? Why?

Because it smacked of immaturity, provincialism, and xenophobia. The Boston Marathon isn't just a regional track competition, its a prestigious Marathon race that brings people to Boston from around world as participants and onlookers. A Chinese college student was killed and I'll assume some of those who were maimed were foreign visitor's.

I admire those who ran towards the smoke to help those who had been hurt. I read stories of Bostonians along the marathon route coming out of their homes offering clothing, food, and shelter. I'm certain for those who may not have insurance or who are underinsured, their medically needs will be taken care of. This doesn't surprise me one bit because the best of who we are as a nation, when needed we step up and help.

But at times we can be less than humble and gracious. What happened last week in Boston didn't call for a "prep rally"; it should have called use to "stay calm and carry on."

By the way....

I thought Mr. Ortiz's comments were crass and embarrassing; the F-bomb should not have came from his lips. (IMHO) That's the way I perceived things....

===================================

[Edited 4/21/13 13:10pm]

That's how people reacted after 9/11 and folks were all okay with that lol

You saw some folks slapping Arab Muslims who had nothing to do with it because they think Muslims "wants us all killed".

It's what Chris Rock would call: "acceptable racism" except there's nothing "accetable" about it. And also people kept up with this fear mongering tactic. It obviously worked because too many gullible folks kept wondering what was going to happen next and think everything else was connected.

That's why I'm kinda tired of the coverage now.

That being said, nothing wrong with standing up for your own country. Separate the hardheads from the proud.

[Edited 4/21/13 20:30pm]