Batty

itsnotallover said:

MrBartolozzi said:

In the UK we have the PC (Politically Correct) brigade. A term used to describe people who want to stop people doing things which might be offensive. A good idea???

They have taken this to the extreme wanting to replace the word 'manhole' with 'personhole' so as not to offend women, and 'blackboard' with 'wipeboard' so as not to offend blacks.

The word or phrase should not be banned just because it sounds offensive, we must consider the intent of the person when they use it.

When I was young if I said black man I was told off and told to use the term coloured. Now the reverse is true and I have taken this on board. However, the other day I said the word coloured and was slated for it. I meant no offence and do not know why the word came out as I haven't used it for about 30 years.

lol I love how People think we have a "PC Brigade" in the UK. Like theres some "Secret society" telling us what we can and cannot say.

In truth, you will find it is several different people or collective groups, who bring these matters to light, then the Media plaster it all over the Press to give the Public a feeling that there is a whole Conspiracy going on to tell us what to say and how to say it - In fact you could go as far as saying that thanks to teh Media and its lack of concern for printing 100% accurate articles, they are responsible partially for inflaming Racial unrest within the Country.

The two things you mention btw are not 100% true. There has not been any news article or Publication etc given to suggest this, other than a Facebook page, Wikipedia / Thinkypedia page and a Yahoo Answers page - Which I am pretty sure aren't exactly connected to any authority .

Also the reason we now call a Blackboard a Wipeboard is because it is Wiped clean, they are also known as Whiteboards - If they are white, but more commonly called "Wipeboards" and yes, it was suggested it would be less offensive to Black people, but again, no big conspiracy there and it was not teh alleged PC Brigade nor the Gov't that introduced the Rule

and to lay the tales to rest, there was no law brought in to change Baa Baa Black Sheep to Baa Baa White Sheep because Black Sheep is offensive to Black People. That too is a fairytale.

oops one more thing to mention, is that there is a trend for "updating" teh English language, hence the addition of "TExt Talk" being accepted as part of the Language today. This is possibly where the whole "manhole vs Personhole" thing comes from. Ironically only the British could be so blinded as not to call it something simple like an Access Cover

[Edited 11/6/11 15:01pm]

I did not say there was an actual brigade like the fire brigade. I did state it was a term.

These reports were in the 80's so are probably not on the internet as it didn't exist.

The wipeboard was also suggested before the whiteboard was being used.

All of which is beside the point, even if these stories are not true.

The word or phrase should not be banned just because it sounds offensive, we must consider the intent of the person when they use it.

"midget" is still used commonly

Also "senile" when strangely "demented" is the accepted term (even though to my ears it sounds way more harsh)

MrBartolozzi said:

itsnotallover said:

lol I love how People think we have a "PC Brigade" in the UK. Like theres some "Secret society" telling us what we can and cannot say.

In truth, you will find it is several different people or collective groups, who bring these matters to light, then the Media plaster it all over the Press to give the Public a feeling that there is a whole Conspiracy going on to tell us what to say and how to say it - In fact you could go as far as saying that thanks to teh Media and its lack of concern for printing 100% accurate articles, they are responsible partially for inflaming Racial unrest within the Country.

The two things you mention btw are not 100% true. There has not been any news article or Publication etc given to suggest this, other than a Facebook page, Wikipedia / Thinkypedia page and a Yahoo Answers page - Which I am pretty sure aren't exactly connected to any authority .

Also the reason we now call a Blackboard a Wipeboard is because it is Wiped clean, they are also known as Whiteboards - If they are white, but more commonly called "Wipeboards" and yes, it was suggested it would be less offensive to Black people, but again, no big conspiracy there and it was not teh alleged PC Brigade nor the Gov't that introduced the Rule

and to lay the tales to rest, there was no law brought in to change Baa Baa Black Sheep to Baa Baa White Sheep because Black Sheep is offensive to Black People. That too is a fairytale.

oops one more thing to mention, is that there is a trend for "updating" teh English language, hence the addition of "TExt Talk" being accepted as part of the Language today. This is possibly where the whole "manhole vs Personhole" thing comes from. Ironically only the British could be so blinded as not to call it something simple like an Access Cover

[Edited 11/6/11 15:01pm]

I did not say there was an actual brigade like the fire brigade. I did state it was a term.

These reports were in the 80's so are probably not on the internet as it didn't exist.

The wipeboard was also suggested before the whiteboard was being used.

All of which is beside the point, even if these stories are not true.

The word or phrase should not be banned just because it sounds offensive, we must consider the intent of the person when they use it.

Actually the reports have been circulating since the 90's and randomly pop up when people get bored, a bit like those Chain Emails "warning" People of things that aren't really happening (like the one about teh Rogue delivery service telling you that you have a parcel waiting and have to ring a number, which turns out the number is in Nigeria and costs £15 a minute) lol.

Whilst I agree with you totally on Words and intended use, sometimes it is easier to eliminate the word as it is difficult to know what intent someone is using. I personally do not think I have ever met a Black person who was offended by the use of teh term Blackboard or the nursery ryhme Baa Baa Black sheep (I do recall that some smarty pants tried to accuse the Black Sheep of representing Black Slaves back in the days of hoo Haa)

Remember that if something "Sounds" Offensive then it almost always can be offensive. But as you say, there are certain things that are stretched to far and taken to literal.

[Edited 11/7/11 2:05am]

itsnotallover said:

MrBartolozzi said:

I did not say there was an actual brigade like the fire brigade. I did state it was a term.

These reports were in the 80's so are probably not on the internet as it didn't exist.

The wipeboard was also suggested before the whiteboard was being used.

All of which is beside the point, even if these stories are not true.

The word or phrase should not be banned just because it sounds offensive, we must consider the intent of the person when they use it.

Actually the reports have been circulating since the 90's and randomly pop up when people get bored, a bit like those Chain Emails "warning" People of things that aren't really happening (like the one about teh Rogue delivery service telling you that you have a parcel waiting and have to ring a number, which turns out the number is in Nigeria and costs £15 a minute) lol.

Whilst I agree with you totally on Words and intended use, sometimes it is easier to eliminate the word as it is difficult to know what intent someone is using. I personally do not think I have ever met a Black person who was offended by the use of teh term Blackboard or the nursery ryhme Baa Baa Black sheep (I do recall that some smarty pants tried to accuse the Black Sheep of representing Black Slaves back in the days of hoo Haa)

Remember that if something "Sounds" Offensive then it almost always can be offensive. But as you say, there are certain things that are stretched to far and taken to literal.

[Edited 11/7/11 2:05am]

Let us take the word 'Niggard' which has no connection whatsoever with the word 'Nigger'.

Yet the word sounds offensive and there have been many cases where people have got into trouble for using it in it's proper context.

Surely this is word fascism.

Double plus ungood.

MrBartolozzi said:

itsnotallover said:

Actually the reports have been circulating since the 90's and randomly pop up when people get bored, a bit like those Chain Emails "warning" People of things that aren't really happening (like the one about teh Rogue delivery service telling you that you have a parcel waiting and have to ring a number, which turns out the number is in Nigeria and costs £15 a minute) lol.

Whilst I agree with you totally on Words and intended use, sometimes it is easier to eliminate the word as it is difficult to know what intent someone is using. I personally do not think I have ever met a Black person who was offended by the use of teh term Blackboard or the nursery ryhme Baa Baa Black sheep (I do recall that some smarty pants tried to accuse the Black Sheep of representing Black Slaves back in the days of hoo Haa)

Remember that if something "Sounds" Offensive then it almost always can be offensive. But as you say, there are certain things that are stretched to far and taken to literal.

[Edited 11/7/11 2:05am]

Let us take the word 'Niggard' which has no connection whatsoever with the word 'Nigger'.

Yet the word sounds offensive and there have been many cases where people have got into trouble for using it in it's proper context.

Surely this is word fascism.

Double plus ungood.

Of course people will get into trouble for using it, what do you think it sounds like? If you was working in a Cafe and a Black man handed you a shitty tip, then you called him a Niggard, what response do you think you are going to get?

Has nothing to do with Word Facism at all.

The following validates my point completely:

another controversy erupted over the use of the word at the University of Wisconsin–Madison. At a February meeting of the Faculty Senate, a junior English major and vice chairwoman of the Black Student Union told the group how a professor teaching Chaucer had used the word niggardly. She later said she was unaware of the related Washington, D.C. controversy that came to light just the week before. She said the professor continued to use the word even after she told him that she was offended. "I was in tears, shaking," she told the faculty. "It's not up to the rest of the class to decide whether my feelings are valid

It does not matter what the word is, what matters is how it is intended for use and how it affects others.

[Edited 11/7/11 5:15am]

[Edited 11/7/11 5:16am]

itsnotallover said:

MrBartolozzi said:

Of course people will get into trouble for using it, what do you think it sounds like? If you was working in a Cafe and a Black man handed you a shitty tip, then you called him a Niggard, what response do you think you are going to get?

Has nothing to do with Word Facism at all.

The following validates my point completely:

another controversy erupted over the use of the word at the University of Wisconsin–Madison. At a February meeting of the Faculty Senate, a junior English major and vice chairwoman of the Black Student Union told the group how a professor teaching Chaucer had used the word niggardly. She later said she was unaware of the related Washington, D.C. controversy that came to light just the week before. She said the professor continued to use the word even after she told him that she was offended. "I was in tears, shaking," she told the faculty. "It's not up to the rest of the class to decide whether my feelings are valid

It does not matter what the word is, what matters is how it is intended for use and how it affects others.

[Edited 11/7/11 5:15am]

[Edited 11/7/11 5:16am]

Again I state it's not the word it's the use.

Of course you would expect a bad response in your first example and rightly so.

In the case of the professor he possibly had a valid reason to use the word in context. I would hope that he would have explained to her that she had no reason to be offended. Her quote suggests that the rest of the class didn't think she should be offended maybe because the professor had explained it's origins. Reusing the word does suggest bullying, not in a racist way but a you're stupid way. Not acceptable.

You can use words which are not offensive but by your intonation you can make it so. Take the word 'Nice'. It's a pleasant word but with the right inflection can be used as a put down.

free2bfreeda said:

sunflower7 said:

realizing the origins of these phrases have been handed down from the originators. many of the original phrases have been modified and redefined according to the areas and peoples using them. oft-times when the original meaning has been changed, the phrase can then be considered offensive to some.

thank you for our imput also. i agree "researching is fun."

as far as black sheep goes. at one job, a friend of mine (the only african-american in the office) heard a co-worker say, "well it's obvious she's the black sheep of our office and all, being the only one and all."

imo, that phrase was used very offensively.

I see what ur saying... stupid ppl going w/sayings that r innocent and twisting them 2fit that evil persons purpose.. ...

alphastreet said:

sex.y bitch....if you call me that, I don't care how close we are, it's not cool

MrBartolozzi said:

free2bfreeda said:

realizing the origins of these phrases have been handed down from the originators. many of the original phrases have been modified and redefined according to the areas and peoples using them. oft-times when the original meaning has been changed, the phrase can then be considered offensive to some.

thank you for our imput also. i agree "researching is fun."

as far as black sheep goes. at one job, a friend of mine (the only african-american in the office) heard a co-worker say, "well it's obvious she's the black sheep of our office and all, being the only one and all."

imo, that phrase was used very offensively.

In the UK we have the PC (Politically Correct) brigade. A term used to describe people who want to stop people doing things which might be offensive. A good idea???

They have taken this to the extreme wanting to replace the word 'manhole' with 'personhole' so as not to offend women, and 'blackboard' with 'wipeboard' so as not to offend blacks.

The word or phrase should not be banned just because it sounds offensive, we must consider the intent of the person when they use it.

When I was young if I said black man I was told off and told to use the term coloured. Now the reverse is true and I have taken this on board. However, the other day I said the word coloured and was slated for it. I meant no offence and do not know why the word came out as I haven't used it for about 30 years.

interesting..

Nothinbutjoy said:

"Beaten like a red-headed step-child" All kinds of wrong.

going 2google for that one..

itsnotallover said:

I have posted this elsewhere, but nevermind.

"Down to the Nitty Gritty"

Nitty Gritty

In that context it has been alleged that 'nitty-gritty' is a derogatory reference to the English slave trade of the 18th century. The phrase is usually used with the prefix 'getting down to' and there is a sense that, whatever the nitty-gritty is, it is at the bottom of something. The suggestion is that it originated as a term for the unimportant debris left at the bottom of ships after the slaves had been removed and that the meaning was extended to include the slaves themselves. That report became widely known following newspaper reports of an 'equality and diversity' course for Bristol Council employees in 2005.

However it's true origin is not known.

interesting...

itsnotallover said:

MrBartolozzi said:

In the UK we have the PC (Politically Correct) brigade. A term used to describe people who want to stop people doing things which might be offensive. A good idea???

They have taken this to the extreme wanting to replace the word 'manhole' with 'personhole' so as not to offend women, and 'blackboard' with 'wipeboard' so as not to offend blacks.

The word or phrase should not be banned just because it sounds offensive, we must consider the intent of the person when they use it.

When I was young if I said black man I was told off and told to use the term coloured. Now the reverse is true and I have taken this on board. However, the other day I said the word coloured and was slated for it. I meant no offence and do not know why the word came out as I haven't used it for about 30 years.

lol I love how People think we have a "PC Brigade" in the UK. Like theres some "Secret society" telling us what we can and cannot say.

In truth, you will find it is several different people or collective groups, who bring these matters to light, then the Media plaster it all over the Press to give the Public a feeling that there is a whole Conspiracy going on to tell us what to say and how to say it - In fact you could go as far as saying that thanks to teh Media and its lack of concern for printing 100% accurate articles, they are responsible partially for inflaming Racial unrest within the Country.

The two things you mention btw are not 100% true. There has not been any news article or Publication etc given to suggest this, other than a Facebook page, Wikipedia / Thinkypedia page and a Yahoo Answers page - Which I am pretty sure aren't exactly connected to any authority .

Also the reason we now call a Blackboard a Wipeboard is because it is Wiped clean, they are also known as Whiteboards - If they are white, but more commonly called "Wipeboards" and yes, it was suggested it would be less offensive to Black people, but again, no big conspiracy there and it was not teh alleged PC Brigade nor the Gov't that introduced the Rule

and to lay the tales to rest, there was no law brought in to change Baa Baa Black Sheep to Baa Baa White Sheep because Black Sheep is offensive to Black People. That too is a fairytale.

oops one more thing to mention, is that there is a trend for "updating" teh English language, hence the addition of "TExt Talk" being accepted as part of the Language today. This is possibly where the whole "manhole vs Personhole" thing comes from. Ironically only the British could be so blinded as not to call it something simple like an Access Cover

[Edited 11/6/11 15:01pm]

Wow very interesting.. I live in the US where ppl try 2be PC... but as far I as I know we still call a blackboard a blackboard, and so on.... I guess we are not as PC as we thought we were.

NDRU said:

"midget" is still used commonly

Also "senile" when strangely "demented" is the accepted term (even though to my ears it sounds way more harsh)

sunflower7 said:

itsnotallover said:

lol I love how People think we have a "PC Brigade" in the UK. Like theres some "Secret society" telling us what we can and cannot say.

In truth, you will find it is several different people or collective groups, who bring these matters to light, then the Media plaster it all over the Press to give the Public a feeling that there is a whole Conspiracy going on to tell us what to say and how to say it - In fact you could go as far as saying that thanks to teh Media and its lack of concern for printing 100% accurate articles, they are responsible partially for inflaming Racial unrest within the Country.

The two things you mention btw are not 100% true. There has not been any news article or Publication etc given to suggest this, other than a Facebook page, Wikipedia / Thinkypedia page and a Yahoo Answers page - Which I am pretty sure aren't exactly connected to any authority .

Also the reason we now call a Blackboard a Wipeboard is because it is Wiped clean, they are also known as Whiteboards - If they are white, but more commonly called "Wipeboards" and yes, it was suggested it would be less offensive to Black people, but again, no big conspiracy there and it was not teh alleged PC Brigade nor the Gov't that introduced the Rule

and to lay the tales to rest, there was no law brought in to change Baa Baa Black Sheep to Baa Baa White Sheep because Black Sheep is offensive to Black People. That too is a fairytale.

oops one more thing to mention, is that there is a trend for "updating" teh English language, hence the addition of "TExt Talk" being accepted as part of the Language today. This is possibly where the whole "manhole vs Personhole" thing comes from. Ironically only the British could be so blinded as not to call it something simple like an Access Cover

[Edited 11/6/11 15:01pm]

Wow very interesting.. I live in the US where ppl try 2be PC... but as far I as I know we still call a blackboard a blackboard, and so on.... I guess we are not as PC as we thought we were.

But is it really racist to say "blackboard" (meaning the thing one writes on with chalk)? It's called that because the color of it is black, not because it has anything to do with specific people. It's like when I hear people say, "That's like the pot calling the kettle black" is racist when it's really not. Would anyone consider "He looked as white as a ghost" racist?

.

[Edited 11/7/11 10:48am]

MrBartolozzi said:

itsnotallover said:

Again I state it's not the word it's the use.

Of course you would expect a bad response in your first example and rightly so.

In the case of the professor he possibly had a valid reason to use the word in context. I would hope that he would have explained to her that she had no reason to be offended. Her quote suggests that the rest of the class didn't think she should be offended maybe because the professor had explained it's origins. Reusing the word does suggest bullying, not in a racist way but a you're stupid way. Not acceptable.

You can use words which are not offensive but by your intonation you can make it so. Take the word 'Nice'. It's a pleasant word but with the right inflection can be used as a put down.

You are right and that is exactly what I said

It does not matter what the word is, what matters is how it is intended for use and how it affects others.

jone70 said:

sunflower7 said:

Wow very interesting.. I live in the US where ppl try 2be PC... but as far I as I know we still call a blackboard a blackboard, and so on.... I guess we are not as PC as we thought we were.

But is it really racist to say "blackboard" (meaning the thing one writes on with chalk)? It's called that because the color of it is black, not because it has anything to do with specific people. It's like when I hear people say, "That's like the pot calling the kettle black" is racist when it's really not. Would anyone consider "He looked as white as a ghost" racist?

.

[Edited 11/7/11 10:48am]

Pot calling the Kettle Black:

The term “the pot calling the kettle black” is usually used in the sense of accusing someone of hypocrisy. The origins of the phrase date back to at least the 1600s, when several writers published books or plays which included wordplays on the theme of the pot calling the kettle black. Despite suggestions that the phrase is racist or nonsensical, the meaning is actually quite obvious when one considers the conditions of a medieval kitchen.

Typically, pots and kettles were made from heavy materials like cast iron, to ensure that they would last and hold up to heat. Cast iron tends to turn black with use, as it collects oil, food residue, and smoke from the kitchen. Both pots and kettles would also have been heated over an open fire in a kitchen of the medieval period. As a result, they would have become streaked with black smoke despite the best cleaning efforts.

So not racist at all

itsnotallover said:

Pot calling the Kettle Black:

The term “the pot calling the kettle black” is usually used in the sense of accusing someone of hypocrisy. The origins of the phrase date back to at least the 1600s, when several writers published books or plays which included wordplays on the theme of the pot calling the kettle black. Despite suggestions that the phrase is racist or nonsensical, the meaning is actually quite obvious when one considers the conditions of a medieval kitchen.

Typically, pots and kettles were made from heavy materials like cast iron, to ensure that they would last and hold up to heat. Cast iron tends to turn black with use, as it collects oil, food residue, and smoke from the kitchen. Both pots and kettles would also have been heated over an open fire in a kitchen of the medieval period. As a result, they would have become streaked with black smoke despite the best cleaning efforts.

So not racist at all

Right. It's totally not racist, but I've actually heard of people being offended by this phrase. I guess they automatically assume that because it has the word "black" in it, it's racist. I feel like blackboard is the same, it's just describing the color of the board, not some undercurrent of racism. Context is also important when words could have multiple meanings.

jone70 said:

sunflower7 said:

But is it really racist to say "blackboard" (meaning the thing one writes on with chalk)? It's called that because the color of it is black, not because it has anything to do with specific people. It's like when I hear people say, "That's like the pot calling the kettle black" is racist when it's really not. Would anyone consider "He looked as white as a ghost" racist?

.

[Edited 11/7/11 10:48am]

I don't think that calling a black board is racist.. if you called it a n&**$% board.. then yes

sunflower7 said:

StillGotIt said:

Wow...people have different understandings.

I was told that the Jimmy term was related to Jim Crow laws. That is why i didn't use it.

I did some researh and here is what I found http://www.chacha.com/que...-come-from

In regards 2 the Jim Crow law association.. I didn't see anything that was related to the word Jimmy.

thanks for that. In Boston Massachusetts, there was a whole public argument about the use of the word "Jimmy" used to describe stuff like the sprinkles on ice cream. that word is taboo around Boston

I think that when dealing with language, you cannot ignore the culture wherein it is used. Part of meaning is determined by its prior use. If you go to a place where that term had more meaning to a people, regardless of what is printed, it is still offensive.

I remember as a pre teen the first time somebody explained to me that they were offended by the word "Jew". That would seem obvious to a Jewish person. But I thought it was just an abbreviated, shortened term for "Jewish" I didn't understand why it offended anyone, nor did I desire to offend anyone. I used it around one group because I was led to believe it was just nothing, but that came out of my mouth around a group of Jewish people and they were like

As a matter of fact, one adult I was around had me thinking it was a compliment....you gotta learn to handle your money and be smart like a Jew...she would say. After that, I wanted to be a Jew because I didn't want to be stupid

StillGotIt said:

Wow...people have different understandings.

I was told that the Jimmy term was related to Jim Crow laws. That is why i didn't use it.

and: (1st paragraph - posted 11/08/11 4:08am)

I think that when dealing with langage, you cannot ignore the culture wherein it is used. Part of the meaning is determined by its prior use. If you go to a place where that term had moe meaning to a people, regardless of what is printed, it is sill offensive.

the word jimmy has several definitions according to what you say embolded. it's so true.

anyway, i found something that may be of use to ur seemingly honest and curious mindset.

people who do not ask questions limit their growth. people who seek for themselves cannot help but to grow.

StillGotIt said:

As a matter of fact, one adult I was around had me thinking it was a compliment....you gotta learn to handle your money and be smart like a Jew...she would say. After that, I wanted to be a Jew because I didn't want to be stupid

Yea I've heard of that sterio type that jewish men take good care of their money and their women... that your mother would want u 2marry a jewish man because of that

free2bfreeda said:

StillGotIt said:

people who do not ask questions limit their growth. people who seek for themselves cannot help but to grow.

I like that qoute

sunflower7 said:

free2bfreeda said:

people who do not ask questions limit their growth. people who seek for themselves cannot help but to grow.

I like that qoute

thx.

IDontBelieveYouHeardMe said:

Cunt. I don't like any of the cunts I have met anywhere near as much as I like female genitalia.

"Gropecunt Lane" - This was a Street name found in many Cities in England, thought to have been named due to the practice of Prostitution within those Streets.

Streets where once named for their practices, i.e Baker Street would have been occupied by Bakers and so forth.

Due to its vulgar meaning the Streets where renamed from Gropecunt to things such as "Grape Lane, Gropecunte, Gropecountelane, Gropecontelane, Groppecountelane and Gropekuntelane".

So if you live on any street with a resemblance to teh above, you know it was once occupied by Prostitutes

sunflower7 said:

StillGotIt said:

As a matter of fact, one adult I was around had me thinking it was a compliment....you gotta learn to handle your money and be smart like a Jew...she would say. After that, I wanted to be a Jew because I didn't want to be stupid

Yea I've heard of that sterio type that jewish men take good care of their money and their women... that your mother would want u 2marry a jewish man because of that

What is funny is that it was a woman who married a Jewish man.....and he agreed with the statement at that moment.

Seriously though...the online urban dictionary is lacking. Theres some fun stuff on there though

The phrase "dog day". Dogs have fun lives, I sometimes wish i could just eat, poop and be adored.

Machaela said:

Nothinbutjoy said:

Machaela said: I'm sorry!! I just find it funny you mentioning that on. I'm sorry! I don't say it.

My tits are NOT cold TYVM !

lol that one did make me laugh