Was "Rickrolling" offensive to Rick Astley?

jone70 said:

MrBartolozzi said:

Umm, not according to Mr. Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gyp).

The second definition (which is the one I refer to) is:

2a: cheat, swindler b: fraud, swindle

Origin of GYP probably short for gypsy First known use: 1750

The first definition (college servant) is British English and uncommonly used in the US.

I agree we should be careful of not assuming words' meanings; but in this case both definitions are correct. Furthermore, we must consider the word's meaning based on current lingo because meanings change over time and a word that was once innocuous could now be considered offensive or vice-versa.

.

[Edited 11/6/11 7:17am]

My reference is the Oxford English Dictionary ('The world's most trusted dictionary).

However, my copy is 28 years old, therefore, I checked Oxford on line and they regard origin unknown.

So who knows.

I was not suggesting that we ignore current lingo, I was saying that if a person used a word which currently is offensive but wasn't before, do not assume they were using it's current meaning. Words never change their meaning they only acquire more meanings.

free2bfreeda said:

hunky-dory

irish-jig

black sheep of the family

i always wondered about this one.

raining cat's and dogs.

so i looked it up and found that one legend has it - europe, circa 1500's:

You've heard of thatch roofs, well that's all they were. Thick straw, piled high, with no wood underneath. They were the only place for the little animals to get warm. So all the pets; dogs, cats and other small animals, mice, rats, bugs, all lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery so sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof. Thus the saying, "it's raining cats and dogs."

How did hunky dory and irish - jig originate ?

Isn't the irish jig just a dance ?

(not a native speaker)

SometimesIwonder said:

A term that is still used in the states & not in the UK- Handicapped... The basis of this word comes from a time when people who were disabled, physically or mentally, could not gain employment to earn. So they would resort to begging in the streets with their Cap in their Hand leading to the term handicapped. It's not been used in the UK since the 80's or before, instead is it termed Disabled, which I must admit, I much prefer.

I didn't know that , we say it here too in the netherlands , odd

Dewrede said:

free2bfreeda said:

hunky-dory

irish-jig

black sheep of the family

i always wondered about this one.

raining cat's and dogs.

so i looked it up and found that one legend has it - europe, circa 1500's:

You've heard of thatch roofs, well that's all they were. Thick straw, piled high, with no wood underneath. They were the only place for the little animals to get warm. So all the pets; dogs, cats and other small animals, mice, rats, bugs, all lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery so sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof. Thus the saying, "it's raining cats and dogs."

How did hunky dory and irish - jig originate ?

Isn't the irish jig just a dance ?

(not a native speaker)

hey my definitions of hunky dory and irish jig both came from the urban area i once lived in.

hunky dory, aka: honky dora meant "dumb h-word." i'm sure that is not the original origin.

however i felt it was offensive.

irish jig: a person that's racially mixed. having one irish parent and one irish american and one african american parent.

the true origin of the terms is more than likely online. i'm totally sure the root terms go back pretty far.

^

ok , cheers for explaining

irish jig isn't necessarily offensive then or is it ?

Dewrede said:

^

ok , cheers for explaining

irish jig isn't necessarily offensive then or is it ?

personally i feel using any race to make a point when talking is kind of not acceptable.

i've read it in print: "you take a irish man and a *igger, add some irish music and you have a jig doing an irish jig.

note: jig is a short way of saying "jigaboo."

what is jigaboo? : Word Origin & History

insulting name for "a black person," 1909, perhaps from jig(q.v.), which had been applied insultingly to persons since late 18c., and ending from bugaboo.

jig slang :Disparaging and Offensive.

a black person.

very offensive!

StillGotIt said:

Wow...people have different understandings.

I was told that the Jimmy term was related to Jim Crow laws. That is why i didn't use it.

I did some researh and here is what I found http://www.chacha.com/que...-come-from

In regards 2 the Jim Crow law association.. I didn't see anything that was related to the word Jimmy.

free2bfreeda said:

Dewrede said:

^

ok , cheers for explaining

irish jig isn't necessarily offensive then or is it ?

personally i feel using any race to make a point when talking is kind of not acceptable.

i've read it in print: "you take a irish man and a *igger, add some irish music and you have a jig doing an irish jig.

note: jig is a short way of saying "jigaboo."

what is jigaboo? : Word Origin & History

insulting name for "a black person," 1909, perhaps from jig(q.v.), which had been applied insultingly to persons since late 18c., and ending from bugaboo.

jig slang :Disparaging and Offensive.

a black person.

very offensive!

Sorry , hadn't realized 'jig' was short for jigaboo

very offensive indeed

free2bfreeda said:

hunky-dory

irish-jig

black sheep of the family

i always wondered about this one.

raining cat's and dogs.

so i looked it up and found that one legend has it - europe, circa 1500's:

You've heard of thatch roofs, well that's all they were. Thick straw, piled high, with no wood underneath. They were the only place for the little animals to get warm. So all the pets; dogs, cats and other small animals, mice, rats, bugs, all lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery so sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof. Thus the saying, "it's raining cats and dogs."

I looked up hunky-dory , and from what I read.. it's not an offending term.. here is a link the definition.. http://www.eduqna.com/Wor...lay-5.html

and Irish-jig- comes from an Irish dance. Now if u were talking about the phrase: the jig is up.. then I could see how that would be offensive to the Irish.. here is a link to that explanation.. http://uk.answers.yahoo.c...338AAPEFex

Also black sheep not a racial term ( I can definitaly see how you would think this) here is a link to the meaning behind this term. http://en.wikipedia.org/w...lack_sheep

Not 2sure on it's raining cats and dogs. I couldn't find a straight answer 2 the meaning... but in all the findings I didn't see anything that would be considered offensive 2anyone.

Thanks for your imput, though.. I learned alot and had fun researching these trems.

kewlschool said:

Never heard the rigged background story-it doesn't equate to me , seems like a stretch to me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_rig * look under the similar phrases section.

NDRU said:

But what about gerry-rigged? I don't know where that comes from. I don't think "rigged" is offensive in and of itself.

And of course the other one is offensive! I doubt anyone misses that. It is patently racist!

[Edited 11/5/11 23:31pm]

Jerry riged, is not offensive, but it's similar phrase " jerry-built"..

Thanks for you imput

MrBartolozzi said:

jone70 said:

the word "gyp" like "I was gypped." -- having to do with Gypsies and the idea that they are dishonest thieves and lower class. I think most people really have no idea this could be considered offensive.

Along the same lines (and more obviously offensive, imo) -- "to Jew" as in "I Jewed him down to $50."

Gyp actually means a college servant in Cambridge.

The word comes from 'gippo' meaning scullion or cook's boy, but which originally was a man's short tunic.

'Gippo' originates from the french word 'Jupeau'.

Non of this relates to gypsies. We should be careful of not assuming a words meaning based on current lingo.

.. I agree.. I did some research on the term and here is what I found : http://www.worldwidewords...a-gyp1.htm

SometimesIwonder said:

A term that is still used in the states & not in the UK- Handicapped... The basis of this word comes from a time when people who were disabled, physically or mentally, could not gain employment to earn. So they would resort to begging in the streets with their Cap in their Hand leading to the term handicapped. It's not been used in the UK since the 80's or before, instead is it termed Disabled, which I must admit, I much prefer.

.. I live in the US, and I never liked using that word.

MrBartolozzi said:

sunflower7 said:

Yes I agree w/ that's so gay ... but w/the blonde statement.. I was referring to natural blonde's

I suspect that the 'blonde moment' actually refers more to bleach blondes as it infers they have to rely on looks rather than brains, and of course gentlemen prefer blondes.

I am 5'10 of mixed race, and have dark hair.. and believe me the gentlemen absolutely prefer me 2..

jone70 said:

MrBartolozzi said:

Umm, not according to Mr. Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gyp).

The second definition (which is the one I refer to) is:

2a: cheat, swindler b: fraud, swindle

Origin of GYP probably short for gypsy First known use: 1750

The first definition (college servant) is British English and uncommonly used in the US.

I agree we should be careful of not assuming words' meanings; but in this case both definitions are correct. Furthermore, we must consider the word's meaning based on current lingo because meanings change over time and a word that was once innocuous could now be considered offensive or vice-versa.

I guess this is where Sigmund Freud's nature vs nurture theory comes in2 play

jone70 said:

free2bfreeda said:

thanks for the info regarding the origin of the word. in some parts of of the u.s., another acceptable term is "impaired." i've wondered if that is an okay term from the disabled person's pov.

I give tours at a major art museum in New York which offers tours to partially sighted, blind, hard of hearing and deaf groups. In our training of how to work with people of different accessibility levels, we were taught that the word "disability" is more proper (never handicapped) and to use people-first language (emphasize the person, not the disability). For example:

"She has a learning disability" not "She is learning disabled."

"He has diabetes." not "He's a diabetic."

We were told that the deaf and hard of hearing communties perfer those terms ("deaf" or "hard of hearing") to "hearing impaired" and that people with low vision prefer terms such as "low vision" or partially sighted" instead of "visually impaired." Of course, I'm sure there are exceptions to this as not everyone is the same and some people probably don't care one way or the other. But these are generally accepted guidelines.

I haven't actually given any tours to partially sighted/blind groups (yet) but I shadowed my supervisor. It was really interesting; and requires A LOT of creativity and preparation as you might imagine. How do you have a conversation about a painting (which may be something abstract or non-representational) when the group may not be able to see it?

.

[Edited 11/6/11 7:20am]

Thanks for ur imput.. I to had a job where they trained us on how 2deal w/guests w/ a disability.

The most important thing that was stressed was that.. they are not the one's w/ a disability.. we are.

ufoclub said:

Was "Rickrolling" offensive to Rick Astley?

I don't think so.. .. I'm sure that he got so many more fans because of that. He was remembered again.. I luv that song .. Never gonna give you up, lmao!!!

This thread got me thinking about the phrase 'Call a spade a spade'.

When I was young I always thought it meant to call something what it is rather than dance around a subject and the spade referred to a shovel.

It was only later in life that I was told it was racist because a spade is a derogatory term for a black person.

I checked today and learn the original quote was call a trough a trough and was mis-translated.

There is no racial slur.

sunflower7 said:

free2bfreeda said:

hunky-dory

irish-jig

black sheep of the family

i always wondered about this one.

raining cat's and dogs.

so i looked it up and found that one legend has it - europe, circa 1500's:

You've heard of thatch roofs, well that's all they were. Thick straw, piled high, with no wood underneath. They were the only place for the little animals to get warm. So all the pets; dogs, cats and other small animals, mice, rats, bugs, all lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery so sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof. Thus the saying, "it's raining cats and dogs."

I looked up hunky-dory , and from what I read.. it's not an offending term.. here is a link the definition.. http://www.eduqna.com/Wor...lay-5.html

and Irish-jig- comes from an Irish dance. Now if u were talking about the phrase: the jig is up.. then I could see how that would be offensive to the Irish.. here is a link to that explanation.. http://uk.answers.yahoo.c...338AAPEFex

Also black sheep not a racial term ( I can definitaly see how you would think this) here is a link to the meaning behind this term. http://en.wikipedia.org/w...lack_sheep

Not 2sure on it's raining cats and dogs. I couldn't find a straight answer 2 the meaning... but in all the findings I didn't see anything that would be considered offensive 2anyone.

Thanks for your imput, though.. I learned alot and had fun researching these trems.

realizing the origins of these phrases have been handed down from the originators. many of the original phrases have been modified and redefined according to the areas and peoples using them. oft-times when the original meaning has been changed, the phrase can then be considered offensive to some.

thank you for our imput also. i agree "researching is fun."

as far as black sheep goes. at one job, a friend of mine (the only african-american in the office) heard a co-worker say, "well it's obvious she's the black sheep of our office and all, being the only one and all."

imo, that phrase was used very offensively.

sex.y bitch....if you call me that, I don't care how close we are, it's not cool

free2bfreeda said:

sunflower7 said:

I looked up hunky-dory , and from what I read.. it's not an offending term.. here is a link the definition.. http://www.eduqna.com/Wor...lay-5.html

and Irish-jig- comes from an Irish dance. Now if u were talking about the phrase: the jig is up.. then I could see how that would be offensive to the Irish.. here is a link to that explanation.. http://uk.answers.yahoo.c...338AAPEFex

Also black sheep not a racial term ( I can definitaly see how you would think this) here is a link to the meaning behind this term. http://en.wikipedia.org/w...lack_sheep

Not 2sure on it's raining cats and dogs. I couldn't find a straight answer 2 the meaning... but in all the findings I didn't see anything that would be considered offensive 2anyone.

Thanks for your imput, though.. I learned alot and had fun researching these trems.

realizing the origins of these phrases have been handed down from the originators. many of the original phrases have been modified and redefined according to the areas and peoples using them. oft-times when the original meaning has been changed, the phrase can then be considered offensive to some.

thank you for our imput also. i agree "researching is fun."

as far as black sheep goes. at one job, a friend of mine (the only african-american in the office) heard a co-worker say, "well it's obvious she's the black sheep of our office and all, being the only one and all."

imo, that phrase was used very offensively.

In the UK we have the PC (Politically Correct) brigade. A term used to describe people who want to stop people doing things which might be offensive. A good idea???

They have taken this to the extreme wanting to replace the word 'manhole' with 'personhole' so as not to offend women, and 'blackboard' with 'wipeboard' so as not to offend blacks.

The word or phrase should not be banned just because it sounds offensive, we must consider the intent of the person when they use it.

When I was young if I said black man I was told off and told to use the term coloured. Now the reverse is true and I have taken this on board. However, the other day I said the word coloured and was slated for it. I meant no offence and do not know why the word came out as I haven't used it for about 30 years.

free2bfreeda said:

Dewrede

hey my definitions of hunky dory andirish jig both came from the urban area i once lived in.

hunky dory, aka: honky dora meant "dumb h-word." i'm sure that is not the original origin.

however i felt it was offensive.

irish jig: a person that's racially mixed. having one irish parent and one irish american and one african american parent.

the true origin of the terms is more than likely online. i'm totally sure the root terms go back pretty far.

Sorry 2hear these terms r beeing misused at where you r from.. but here are the origins of them..

and Irish-jig- comes from an Irish dance. Now if u were talking about the phrase: the jig is up.. then I could see how that would be offensive to the Irish.. here is a link to that explanation.. http://uk.answers.yahoo.c...338AAPEFex

I looked up hunky-dory , and from what I read.. it's not an offending term.. here is a link the definition.. http://www.eduqna.com/Wor...lay-5.html

Dewrede said:

free2bfreeda said:

hunky-dory

irish-jig

black sheep of the family

i always wondered about this one.

raining cat's and dogs.

so i looked it up and found that one legend has it - europe, circa 1500's:

You've heard of thatch roofs, well that's all they were. Thick straw, piled high, with no wood underneath. They were the only place for the little animals to get warm. So all the pets; dogs, cats and other small animals, mice, rats, bugs, all lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery so sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof. Thus the saying, "it's raining cats and dogs."

How did hunky dory and irish - jig originate ?

Isn't the irish jig just a dance ?

(not a native speaker)

Yes, the Irish Jig is a dance.. here is the meaning behind this term..

and Irish-jig- comes from an Irish dance. Now if u were talking about the phrase: the jig is up.. then I could see how that would be offensive to the Irish.. here is a link to that explanation.. http://uk.answers.yahoo.c...338AAPEFex

free2bfreeda said:

Dewrede said:

^

ok , cheers for explaining

irish jig isn't necessarily offensive then or is it ?

personally i feel using any race to make a point when talking is kind of not acceptable.

i've read it in print: "you take a irish man and a *igger, add some irish music and you have a jig doing an irish jig.

note: jig is a short way of saying "jigaboo."

what is jigaboo? : Word Origin & History

insulting name for "a black person," 1909, perhaps from jig(q.v.), which had been applied insultingly to persons since late 18c., and ending from bugaboo.

jig slang :Disparaging and Offensive.

a black person.

very offensive!

or this http://wiki.answers.com/Q..._come_from .. the word Jig connects 2soo many definitions... this Irish jig term I think refers 2dancing though.

Dewrede said:

free2bfreeda said:

Sorry , hadn't realized 'jig' was short for jigaboo

very offensive indeed

Jig can mean soo many things.. in this Irish jig term I think it refers 2dancing. Here is what I found on the word jig.. http://wiki.answers.com/Q..._come_from . So with out the similar phrase Jigaboo.. Jig means a dance.

I have posted this elsewhere, but nevermind.

"Down to the Nitty Gritty"

Nitty Gritty

In that context it has been alleged that 'nitty-gritty' is a derogatory reference to the English slave trade of the 18th century. The phrase is usually used with the prefix 'getting down to' and there is a sense that, whatever the nitty-gritty is, it is at the bottom of something. The suggestion is that it originated as a term for the unimportant debris left at the bottom of ships after the slaves had been removed and that the meaning was extended to include the slaves themselves. That report became widely known following newspaper reports of an 'equality and diversity' course for Bristol Council employees in 2005.

However it's true origin is not known.

free2bfreeda said:

SometimesIwonder said:

A term that is still used in the states & not in the UK- Handicapped... The basis of this word comes from a time when people who were disabled, physically or mentally, could not gain employment to earn. So they would resort to begging in the streets with their Cap in their Hand leading to the term handicapped. It's not been used in the UK since the 80's or before, instead is it termed Disabled, which I must admit, I much prefer.

thanks for the info regarding the origin of the word. in some parts of of the u.s., another acceptable term is "impaired." i've wondered if that is an okay term from the disabled person's pov.

I believe the politically correct term as of now is differently abled.

MrBartolozzi said:

free2bfreeda said:

realizing the origins of these phrases have been handed down from the originators. many of the original phrases have been modified and redefined according to the areas and peoples using them. oft-times when the original meaning has been changed, the phrase can then be considered offensive to some.

thank you for our imput also. i agree "researching is fun."

as far as black sheep goes. at one job, a friend of mine (the only african-american in the office) heard a co-worker say, "well it's obvious she's the black sheep of our office and all, being the only one and all."

imo, that phrase was used very offensively.

In the UK we have the PC (Politically Correct) brigade. A term used to describe people who want to stop people doing things which might be offensive. A good idea???

They have taken this to the extreme wanting to replace the word 'manhole' with 'personhole' so as not to offend women, and 'blackboard' with 'wipeboard' so as not to offend blacks.

The word or phrase should not be banned just because it sounds offensive, we must consider the intent of the person when they use it.

When I was young if I said black man I was told off and told to use the term coloured. Now the reverse is true and I have taken this on board. However, the other day I said the word coloured and was slated for it. I meant no offence and do not know why the word came out as I haven't used it for about 30 years.

lol I love how People think we have a "PC Brigade" in the UK. Like theres some "Secret society" telling us what we can and cannot say.

In truth, you will find it is several different people or collective groups, who bring these matters to light, then the Media plaster it all over the Press to give the Public a feeling that there is a whole Conspiracy going on to tell us what to say and how to say it - In fact you could go as far as saying that thanks to teh Media and its lack of concern for printing 100% accurate articles, they are responsible partially for inflaming Racial unrest within the Country.

The two things you mention btw are not 100% true. There has not been any news article or Publication etc given to suggest this, other than a Facebook page, Wikipedia / Thinkypedia page and a Yahoo Answers page - Which I am pretty sure aren't exactly connected to any authority .

Also the reason we now call a Blackboard a Wipeboard is because it is Wiped clean, they are also known as Whiteboards - If they are white, but more commonly called "Wipeboards" and yes, it was suggested it would be less offensive to Black people, but again, no big conspiracy there and it was not teh alleged PC Brigade nor the Gov't that introduced the Rule

and to lay the tales to rest, there was no law brought in to change Baa Baa Black Sheep to Baa Baa White Sheep because Black Sheep is offensive to Black People. That too is a fairytale.

oops one more thing to mention, is that there is a trend for "updating" teh English language, hence the addition of "TExt Talk" being accepted as part of the Language today. This is possibly where the whole "manhole vs Personhole" thing comes from. Ironically only the British could be so blinded as not to call it something simple like an Access Cover

[Edited 11/6/11 15:01pm]