SUPRMAN said:

She apparently posted it after Daddy threatened to cut her off financially and take her Mercedes if she dropped out of school.

I guess being beaten led to attempted blackmail.

Yeah that''s what Daddy says NOW. I guess you instantly believe the lies of a child abuser.

Tremolina said:

SUPRMAN said:

I guess being beaten led to attempted blackmail.

Yeah that''s what Daddy says NOW. I guess you instantly believe the lies of a child abuser.

So why did she wait until now to release it? She wasn't holding it over Daddy's head?

Being a child abuser doesn't make one a liar also.

Ok, I will start by being absolutely honest. I do not have any children and have not raised a child.

However, I did grow up in a single parent house hold with three younger siblings. I pretty much raised my youngest brother, who even now sometimes slips up and calls me “mom” instead of “sister.” My grandmother, on the other hand, pretty much raised the brother who is two years younger than me.

I find reading some of these comments highly disturbing because some of the posts seem to suggest that “the rod” is the only thing that can be considered an effective “punishment.” There are other forms of correction/education that do not involve hitting a child. I never hit my youngest brother, ever. I could have, my mom gave me permission to “spank” him if I needed to. He was not a perfect child, in fact he often acted out because of his confusion about his relationship to me, his sister/mom, and his actual mom, who loved him but didn’t have the time/energy/resources to take care of him like a “mom” does. Plus, he had no father figure to look up to; I played the role of both. I never even yelled at my brother growing up.

Now, as an older individual, my brother is not only extremely educated, but he also has a grace which is amazing. When asked he contributes it to the fact that he had someone who took care of him with care and understanding and never resorted to violence in order to make her point. He respects and loves me, but he also obeys me, not out of fear, but out of respect. Growing up there were consequences to his actions, and we even engaged in discussions about those consequences, but at the end of the day he was disciplined.

My other brother, who was less problematic then the youngest, was raised by my grandmother, who often quoted the “spare the rod and spoil the child” bullshit. She whopped my brother when she felt he needed it. While he listened to her, out of fear of getting a whopping, he did not respect her. Nor did he stop doing the things that got him in trouble in the first place, he just stopped getting caught. He has been in and out of jail a number of times now and also spouts the “spare the rod and spoil the child.”

While I am not trying to show that one form of punishment produces certain children and another form produces another type of child, as I got my ass beat and am ok, the argument also works the other way around. As Dave has mentioned, you cannot prove that a child turned out ok because they got “spanked,” “beat,” or “hit.” On the contrary, there are studies that show that spanking children, especially before the age of 5, is detrimental to their overall development. This has to do with the child’s brain development and their inability to link physical punishment with a moral (right or wrong) concept. You condition them to fear doing certain things, sure, but that’s a form of conditioning that doesn’t actually teach anything. On the other hand, there isn’t very much (I’m allowing room for myself to be corrected if someone has something on this to show me), or any work around corporal punishment that shows that children do benefit from it at some larger scale and that other forms of correction don’t show similar, or better, results.

In college and after (higher education, woot wot!), I worked with children. I specialized in offering child services to single low income women of color (the group I was most interested in while attending college due to my own background). These services not only included free child care, but also educational aspects about child diet/exercise and alternative correction methods (other than spanking). In these environments I have had guns pulled on me (by young adults); I was stabbed in the hand, etc. I never hit nor raised my voice at the children, regardless of if they threw out in the store or locked me in the grudge.

I also spent 4 years doing private care. These were cases in which wealthy families hired me to do the same things I was doing with the low income families. I can honestly say that these kids were worse. Spanked or not spanked, they were wealthy and out of control. Most of them understood that mommy or daddy could pay to make things “right” and they, unlike the less privileged kids, showed little to no remorse for any of their actions. During these years I worked with children who suffered from Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and other such disorders. I never hit them or yelled at them, yet they all (I had a 100% success rate) showed improvement. Hell, even the child with RAD (who has a desire to hurt/kill living things) began showing affection (I’m still in contact with him and his family; he calls me when he starts to feel “the urge.”)

While working and learning I knew a number of women and men who, like Mach, didn’t use “spanking” as a form of correction. These children were some of brightest, socially aware, caring children I have ever had the privilege of babysitting. I’m not saying that they are perfect, as no one is, but they show that there are other methods out there that work. If there are other ways of doing it, without resorting to violence, then why use violence against your own child? The fact that spanking is the first form of correction most parents turn to says a lot about certain values that have been passed down across cultures. Is it more work to do things the other way? Hell yes, but as a parent you should be up to doing that work. I hold firm to the belief that it is NEVER ok to hit your child while you are angry/upset.

While I do not have children of my own, I can say that I have probably worked intimately with more children than anyone participating in this discussion. I am speaking from relationships that I had/ have (live in and live out) with a number of children throughout the years. Why is this important? This is important because I have NEVER needed to hit a child in order to achieve some end result…no matter the child or the mental issue they suffer from.

I think an important thing to ask yourself is why you are hitting your child and what you want to achieve by doing so. Are you doing it to punish them, as a form of retribution? Are you trying to teach some larger moral concept? What? The intent behind your action should inform what action you take.

PurpleJedi said:

StillGotIt said:

Such a strong position.....how many children have you raised?

Dave is too young to really understand what he's saying.

You're too old and set in your ways to really understand the alternative methods other people are

suggesting.

How does that taste?

Lets leave age out of it because wisdom knows no age.

People who have used spanking as a method of discipline like me... never said it was the ONLY methos they used.

I believe spanking is your last resort in most cases.

Most well adjusted adults are open to other options and DO use them... no one is perfect and no child is the same.So not all types of discipline works on children, each child needs a custom approach.

Now I wish I knew Mach before I had my kids to know what she did to NOT have to spank her children.

Her children are well adjusted adults... not like the children I know whose parents do not spank them and allow their children to bully and hit other children in the school my children go to.

They are not as successful as Mach in parenting.

I do not know one parent that spanks ONLY.

If they did... they would be in jail. I have called child services on people who abused their children.

To call people here awful parents because they spank... well spanking doesn't hurt the child.

Its not a beat down. So I don't understand what people consider "spankings" ...

LadyCasanova said:

PurpleJedi said:

Dave is too young to really understand what he's saying.

You're too old and set in your ways to really understand the alternative methods other people are

suggesting.

How does that taste?

Lets leave age out of it because wisdom knows no age.

true, but experience speaks volumes...

paintedlady said:

To call people here awful parents because they spank... well spanking doesn't hurt the child.

Its not a beat down. So I don't understand what people consider "spankings" ...

So far, that definition (in this discussion) has been very different depending on the poster.

What say you?

[Edited 11/5/11 16:30pm]

Dup.

[Edited 11/5/11 16:30pm]

tinaz said:

LadyCasanova said:

You're too old and set in your ways to really understand the alternative methods other people are

suggesting.

How does that taste?

Lets leave age out of it because wisdom knows no age.

true, but experience speaks volumes...

I agree, but experience is not dependent on age.

[Edited 11/5/11 16:33pm]

LadyCasanova said:

tinaz said:

true, but experience speaks volumes...

I agree, but experience is not dependent on age.

[Edited 11/5/11 16:33pm]

Again true, but in this case I think it does matter.. A 18 year old fresh outta high school, with no children, cant possible know what its like to have children, let alone how to deal with them... So they kind of go hand in hand... I think thats what Purplejedi was trying to convey....

LadyCasanova said:

paintedlady said:

To call people here awful parents because they spank... well spanking doesn't hurt the child.

Its not a beat down. So I don't understand what people consider "spankings" ...

So far, that definition (in this discussion) has been very different depending on the poster.

What say you?

[Edited 11/5/11 16:30pm]

If I DO spank..... I use a belt... not my hand.

1-Me and child have a long discussion - the why -the how- and the what can happen

2- because while I get the child to get the belt I am able to calm down and think, so not to strike my child while anger. Sometimes I even wait a few minutes.

3- If I use my hand I fear I may bruise or even break a bone... I am heavy handed.

4- I use the two stike method and to intimidate/scare them... not cause pain. Sometimes I even strike the floor and I get the same effect.

the trick is not in the actual hitting... but in the sense of instilling the "don't ever try that again" in the child.

after the spanking we hug it out and the child needs time to be alone.

I NEVER allow my children to taunt any sibling who is on punishment or has been spanked... ever.

that is abusive also.

Oh and I NEVER call my children out of their name, nor do I call them dumb, stupid... etc.

I keep it to what they should not do and why ONLY.

This way the child isn't emotionally abused also. Many parents do NOT stop themselves from verbally abusing their children when angered.

I am BIG on that one. I hate verbal abuse.

[Edited 11/5/11 16:48pm]

tinaz said:

LadyCasanova said:

I agree, but experience is not dependent on age.

[Edited 11/5/11 16:33pm]

Again true, but in this case I think it does matter.. A 18 year old fresh outta high school, with no children, cant possible know what its like to have children, let alone how to deal with them... So they kind of go hand in hand... I think thats what Purplejedi was trying to convey....

I understand what he is trying to convey. It simply didn't come off as strong as it could have

because he made it about age, not experience.

The issue isn't the "young" it is the "experience." A 17 year old fresh out of high school with

two children, or even one, could speak on what its like to have children. So age isn't the real issue.

Dave just happens to be both young and without children. In a discussion like this, and when you

are attempting to show why someones argument is less viable, it is important to be

intentional about the language you are using.

Dave, from his response, took it as an attack on his age, which is how it reads, and not a point

about experience.

Also, I have enjoyed reading your responses thus far

LadyCasanova said:

tinaz said:

Again true, but in this case I think it does matter.. A 18 year old fresh outta high school, with no children, cant possible know what its like to have children, let alone how to deal with them... So they kind of go hand in hand... I think thats what Purplejedi was trying to convey....

I understand what he is trying to convey. It simply didn't come off as strong as it could have

because he made it about age, not experience.

The issue isn't the "young" it is the "experience." A 17 year old fresh out of high school with

two children, or even one, could speak on what its like to have children. So age isn't the real issue.

Dave just happens to be both young and without children. In a discussion like this, and when you

are attempting to show why someones argument is less viable, it is important to be

intentional about the language you are using.

Dave, from his response, took it as an attack on his age, which is how it reads, and not a point

about experience.

Also, I have enjoyed reading your responses thus far

Aw.. Thank you!

Your sweet!!

SUPRMAN said:

Tremolina said:

Yeah that''s what Daddy says NOW. I guess you instantly believe the lies of a child abuser.

So why did she wait until now to release it? She wasn't holding it over Daddy's head?

Being a child abuser doesn't make one a liar also.

It doesn't matter what her motivations were. Fact is he is a child abuser and not fit to be a judge.

angel345 said:

StillGotIt said:

Yea...potentially burning down the house....definitely worth a spanking. you dont get a second chance for that. One of my siblings did burn us out of a home doing dumb shit with a candle.

Wow . Sorry to read this.

You know...we were a VERY large family. It split us up for a bit..I was just a baby.....a lot of people stepped in to help us. They took all of us in...2 kids here, 3 kids there, one here, 2 there. The burn out was a blessing in disguise because we ended up buying a beautiful house that was a lot larger than where we were before.

Dave1992 said:

StillGotIt said:

Such a strong position.....how many children have you raised?

I haven't raised any children yet, but what does this (and my age) have to do with how well-reasoned my opinion is? It's rather you two who sound a bit naive, because being older or having made mistakes is not an excuse for bad behaviour.

If I ever decide to have children (thinking that I'm fit enough to do it) and they turn out to be such a big pain in the arse that it would make me want to slap them, I sincerely hope that I'll be surrounded by people like the person I am now to stop me from doing it.

who says I have behavioral issues? What bad behavior are you referring to? You sound like you lack respect for the wisdom of those who come before you...now THAT is naive and perhaps foolish as well.

Anyway, although you apparently think you qualify as the "Doogie Howser" of parenting, your lack of knowledge and lack of experience play a major factor in my opinion that you are far more ignorant than you realize. But then, isn't that how the majority of us were when we were young...nobody could tell us shit because we swore we already knew everything.

Keep it moving....I've raised awesome kids, and I'm currently raising awesome kids and you haven't done either.

[img:$uid]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii122/StillGotItNow/crybaby-5.gif[/img:$uid]

TonyVanDam said:

Dave1992 said:

There's nothing wrong with being a strict parents, having strict rules and expecting your child to obey them (and punishing them if they don't).

But there's a lot of things wrong with enforcing your laws by hurting someone physically, or by earning respect because someone fears you. That's pathetic, horrible, disgusting and simply not what I imagine a truly loving father/mother being able to do.

There have to be other ways. If you can't find them, you're not fit to have children, in my opinion.

For all we know Dave, you might not be fit to be a real parent if you allow children to go unpunished for being a bunch of unruly, disrespectful, and dishonorable brats that think they are "above the law" within the family household AND society in general.

No disrespect, this is real talk.

Where have I said that unruly and disrespectful children should not be punished?! That would be quite counterproductive, wouldn't it. I'm just saying that they should be punished accordingly, and, in my opinion, punishment in the form of physical abuse is never a suitable punishment. It's as simply as that, really.

tinaz said:

LadyCasanova said:

I agree, but experience is not dependent on age.

[Edited 11/5/11 16:33pm]

Again true, but in this case I think it does matter.. A 18 year old fresh outta high school, with no children, cant possible know what its like to have children, let alone how to deal with them... So they kind of go hand in hand... I think thats what Purplejedi was trying to convey....

It's only logical that everybody participating in this discussion will mainly speak from their experience. I know what it feels like to not only be spanked, but also beat by a parent who actually loves you and I know what it feels like to be punished differently.

I spent a lot of time with my little brother and tried to protect him from my mum's form of punishment and tried to showed him a different, better world, where love is unconditional. He is 10 years old now and has Tourette's syndrom, which, many therapists said, could have been caused by him often being hit as a child.

I can't counter the argument that I have less experience and never raised a child - you're all right - but what more can any human being do than form an opinion out of the personal experience they had? In the end, the emotional attachment to certain situations in your past feels way more convincing than what other people tell you. I try to combine it with logic and healthy thinking and that's what led to my current point of view. I don't think any of you is any different.

StillGotIt said:

Dave1992 said:

I haven't raised any children yet, but what does this (and my age) have to do with how well-reasoned my opinion is? It's rather you two who sound a bit naive, because being older or having made mistakes is not an excuse for bad behaviour.

If I ever decide to have children (thinking that I'm fit enough to do it) and they turn out to be such a big pain in the arse that it would make me want to slap them, I sincerely hope that I'll be surrounded by people like the person I am now to stop me from doing it.

who says I have behavioral issues? What bad behavior are you referring to? You sound like you lack respect for the wisdom of those who come before you...now THAT is naive and perhaps foolish as well.

Anyway, although you apparently think you qualify as the "Doogie Howser" of parenting, your lack of knowledge and lack of experience play a major factor in my opinion that you are far more ignorant than you realize. But then, isn't that how the majority of us were when we were young...nobody could tell us shit because we swore we already knew everything.

Keep it moving....I've raised awesome kids, and I'm currently raising awesome kids and you haven't done either.

[img:$uid]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii122/StillGotItNow/crybaby-5.gif[/img:$uid]

I don't like your ignorance and that's what I indeed call bad behaviour.

No, I do not think I know everything.

I love listening to people who know more than I do and I'm very interested in what they have to say, if they've convinced me that they're worth listening to. I'm sorry - even if you probably won't give a fuck -, but you just disqualified (especially with that lovely emoticon at the end).

LadyCasanova said:

Ok, I will start by being absolutely honest. I do not have any children and have not raised a child.

However, I did grow up in a single parent house hold with three younger siblings. I pretty much raised my youngest brother, who even now sometimes slips up and calls me “mom” instead of “sister.” My grandmother, on the other hand, pretty much raised the brother who is two years younger than me.

I find reading some of these comments highly disturbing because some of the posts seem to suggest that “the rod” is the only thing that can be considered an effective “punishment.” There are other forms of correction/education that do not involve hitting a child. I never hit my youngest brother, ever. I could have, my mom gave me permission to “spank” him if I needed to. He was not a perfect child, in fact he often acted out because of his confusion about his relationship to me, his sister/mom, and his actual mom, who loved him but didn’t have the time/energy/resources to take care of him like a “mom” does. Plus, he had no father figure to look up to; I played the role of both. I never even yelled at my brother growing up.

Now, as an older individual, my brother is not only extremely educated, but he also has a grace which is amazing. When asked he contributes it to the fact that he had someone who took care of him with care and understanding and never resorted to violence in order to make her point. He respects and loves me, but he also obeys me, not out of fear, but out of respect. Growing up there were consequences to his actions, and we even engaged in discussions about those consequences, but at the end of the day he was disciplined.

My other brother, who was less problematic then the youngest, was raised by my grandmother, who often quoted the “spare the rod and spoil the child” bullshit. She whopped my brother when she felt he needed it. While he listened to her, out of fear of getting a whopping, he did not respect her. Nor did he stop doing the things that got him in trouble in the first place, he just stopped getting caught. He has been in and out of jail a number of times now and also spouts the “spare the rod and spoil the child.”

While I am not trying to show that one form of punishment produces certain children and another form produces another type of child, as I got my ass beat and am ok, the argument also works the other way around. As Dave has mentioned, you cannot prove that a child turned out ok because they got “spanked,” “beat,” or “hit.” On the contrary, there are studies that show that spanking children, especially before the age of 5, is detrimental to their overall development. This has to do with the child’s brain development and their inability to link physical punishment with a moral (right or wrong) concept. You condition them to fear doing certain things, sure, but that’s a form of conditioning that doesn’t actually teach anything. On the other hand, there isn’t very much (I’m allowing room for myself to be corrected if someone has something on this to show me), or any work around corporal punishment that shows that children do benefit from it at some larger scale and that other forms of correction don’t show similar, or better, results.

In college and after (higher education, woot wot!), I worked with children. I specialized in offering child services to single low income women of color (the group I was most interested in while attending college due to my own background). These services not only included free child care, but also educational aspects about child diet/exercise and alternative correction methods (other than spanking). In these environments I have had guns pulled on me (by young adults); I was stabbed in the hand, etc. I never hit nor raised my voice at the children, regardless of if they threw out in the store or locked me in the grudge.

I also spent 4 years doing private care. These were cases in which wealthy families hired me to do the same things I was doing with the low income families. I can honestly say that these kids were worse. Spanked or not spanked, they were wealthy and out of control. Most of them understood that mommy or daddy could pay to make things “right” and they, unlike the less privileged kids, showed little to no remorse for any of their actions. During these years I worked with children who suffered from Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and other such disorders. I never hit them or yelled at them, yet they all (I had a 100% success rate) showed improvement. Hell, even the child with RAD (who has a desire to hurt/kill living things) began showing affection (I’m still in contact with him and his family; he calls me when he starts to feel “the urge.”)

While working and learning I knew a number of women and men who, like Mach, didn’t use “spanking” as a form of correction. These children were some of brightest, socially aware, caring children I have ever had the privilege of babysitting. I’m not saying that they are perfect, as no one is, but they show that there are other methods out there that work. If there are other ways of doing it, without resorting to violence, then why use violence against your own child? The fact that spanking is the first form of correction most parents turn to says a lot about certain values that have been passed down across cultures. Is it more work to do things the other way? Hell yes, but as a parent you should be up to doing that work. I hold firm to the belief that it is NEVER ok to hit your child while you are angry/upset.

While I do not have children of my own, I can say that I have probably worked intimately with more children than anyone participating in this discussion. I am speaking from relationships that I had/ have (live in and live out) with a number of children throughout the years. Why is this important? This is important because I have NEVER needed to hit a child in order to achieve some end result…no matter the child or the mental issue they suffer from.

I think an important thing to ask yourself is why you are hitting your child and what you want to achieve by doing so. Are you doing it to punish them, as a form of retribution? Are you trying to teach some larger moral concept? What? The intent behind your action should inform what action you take.

Let us make babies. Please.

tinaz said:

There has to be fear... fear based actions rule the world... Why dont you speed in your car? Because you fear a speeding ticket... Why dont you steal? Cuz you fear jail...

There MUST be consequences to every action, I have seen those "time out, lets discuss this" parenting... Its a joke, the child is usually out of contol! But if a child knows its bad behaviour will warrant a punishment of some kind, that is what teaches them how to behave... You dont have to "scare" your child, but it must be aware of the consequences...

And this is in noway saying beat your child...

This seems backwards to me. You* should be taught to do or not do things because they are right not because you are scared of the consequences of getting caught doing them. You shouldn't speed because it is dangerous and could cause harm to yourself or others. You shouldn't steal because it is not right to take something that does not belong to you. It's fine to have consequences, but ruling by fear doesn't seem quite right. Wouldn't it be better to teach children to not do something because it is not polite or proper or moral instead of teach them to be afraid of what happens if they get caught?

*All use of "you" is in the general sense, not the specific.

Dave1992 said:

StillGotIt said:

who says I have behavioral issues? What bad behavior are you referring to? You sound like you lack respect for the wisdom of those who come before you...now THAT is naive and perhaps foolish as well.

Anyway, although you apparently think you qualify as the "Doogie Howser" of parenting, your lack of knowledge and lack of experience play a major factor in my opinion that you are far more ignorant than you realize. But then, isn't that how the majority of us were when we were young...nobody could tell us shit because we swore we already knew everything.

Keep it moving....I've raised awesome kids, and I'm currently raising awesome kids and you haven't done either.

[img:$uid]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii122/StillGotItNow/crybaby-5.gif[/img:$uid]

I don't like your ignorance and that's what I indeed call bad behaviour.

No, I do not think I know everything.

I love listening to people who know more than I do and I'm very interested in what they have to say, if they've convinced me that they're worth listening to. I'm sorry - even if you probably won't give a fuck -, but you just disqualified (especially with that lovely emoticon at the end).

Your right about one thing...I don't give a fuck. Your misinformed, undeveloped and unlearned mind could eventually improve with time, but right now, you're out of your league. Your witless understanding allowed you to make assumptions about even my "lovely emoticon"...so perhaps I'll now be direct and give you an obvious emoticon that you cannot misinterpret.

Now go get on your flimsy parenting soap box, live in your fairy tail world of make-believe (tell Mr. Rogers I said hello) and please pretend I don't exist and I will afford you the same courtesy.

[img:$uid]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii122/StillGotItNow/flyswatter.gif[/img:$uid]

[Edited 11/5/11 21:35pm]

StillGotIt said:

Dave1992 said:

I don't like your ignorance and that's what I indeed call bad behaviour.

No, I do not think I know everything.

I love listening to people who know more than I do and I'm very interested in what they have to say, if they've convinced me that they're worth listening to. I'm sorry - even if you probably won't give a fuck -, but you just disqualified (especially with that lovely emoticon at the end).

Your right about one thing...I don't give a fuck. Your misinformed, undeveloped and unlearned mind could eventually improve with time, but right now, you're out of your league. Your witless understanding allowed you to make assumptions about even my "lovely emoticon"...so perhaps I'll now be direct and give you an obvious emoticon that you cannot misinterpret.

Now go get on your flimsy parenting soap box, live in your fairy tail world of make-believe (tell Mr. Rogers I said hello) and please pretend I don't exist and I will afford you the same courtesy.

[img:$uid]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii122/StillGotItNow/flyswatter.gif[/img:$uid]

[Edited 11/5/11 21:35pm]

I seriously didn't mean to be rude, but you have to understand that it really sounds like an ignorant argument to say that I can't be right because I haven't gone through the same things other people did (for instance, I know many parents who have had children, never spanked them and still share my point of view, and they certainly aren't "misinformed, undeveloped and unlearned" and do not live in a fairy tale parenting soap box world).

I explained in another post how one can only draw from their personal experience and it is no different with you. And, it's useless to underestimate somebody else's experience.

So, while I respect your opinion and understand why you have that opinion, I cannot settle for not being able to participate and not having a valid argument just because I didn't raise children myself yet (and you wouldn't either). There are many people here who share their opinion who didn't raise children yet and, actually, that is what I personally find so interesting about the org - everyone has a different background, everyone has made a different experience and we discuss our opinions.

I'd rather not start to ignore another orger (or be ignored), just because there seemed to be a misunderstanding regarding how to bring up children (I doubt we'll ever have to agree on that level, so why bother?), because, frankly, that is childish.

So, please don't have a dig at other people anymore, just because, in the first place, they don't share your opinion, and secondly, because you don't value their experience as good enough, because it will not work, ever.

SUPRMAN said:

Tremolina said:

Sad, sad, sad thread.

It's 'normal' tho' that people who have been abused as a child, do it themselves too when they become parents. Of course they defend their incompetence. One of the major reasons why the world is so messed up. Children are raised to use force and violence to get what they want.

It's also 'normal' to justify abusing your children under the guise of 'parenting', because when you have a weak personality it's much easier to make that seem as normal and even "necessary", than admit that you are just a fucked up individual in need of help. Nah, you rather ignore that slapping ANYBODY never is right and keep on living in your little lalala land that it IS right when you do it to your child, under the guise of 'being such a great parent'.

Sorry, but you are NOT a "great parent" and it doesn't matter one iota whether you "think" punishing children pysicially as if they are your property is part of parenting. Your abusing a little defenseless child, period. And this thread proves that MANY of you people do that.

Take note therefore also, all you folks on here who think it's okay to give your child "the belt" or physically absuse them in any other way, under the guise of 'parenting':

There is a way to legally get away with your failure to deal with your kids:

Just make sure your kid won't go to the police before the statute of limitations applies and you will be just fine! However, when your kid doesn't, you may just be prosecuted.

[Edited 11/5/11 11:38am]

She apparently posted it after Daddy threatened to cut her off financially and take her Mercedes if she dropped out of school.

I guess being beaten led to attempted blackmail.

Dave1992 said:

PurpleJedi said:

I mean, of course everyone is entitled to their opinion...but for me, I'll respect the opinion of someone like Mach, for example, who HAS raised a wonderful, well-adjusted family without spanking and still doesn't go around making such strong & high-brow declarations to the contrary.

But then again I was very vocal and opinionated at his age myself...so...

How do you think it would feel to your children if they'd hear you saying you don't respect someone's opinion just because they're younger than you are (or because they don't share your opinion)?

I've said it a thousand times already: I met old, experienced people who behaved like total idiots (especially here on the org) and I met young, inexperienced people who didn't have to go through certain experiences to know what their outcome would be, which is quite wise. You'd be lying if you told me you haven't, too.

But I guess it makes you feel stronger, so carry on.

"Respect"...there's a word worth looking up in the dictionary. When you offer an "opinion" that's laced with condescention and a high-brow "holier-than-thou" tone...then it's not an "opinion" but rather a condemnation.

It's YOUR opinion that spanking is "abusive". But that is your opinion. It does not make it a fact. And you can argue 'til your pretty little face turns blue all you want, and it still does not make it a fact.

I expect my children to have strong opinions (which they do) and more importantly to lead by actions and not words. And when they do offer their opinion, I hope that they do so wisely and with tact...and actually know what the hell they're talking about.

LadyCasanova said:

PurpleJedi said:

Dave is too young to really understand what he's saying.

You're too old and set in your ways to really understand the alternative methods other people are

suggesting.

How does that taste?

Lets leave age out of it because wisdom knows no age.

You can say that because you have the experience to back up your words.

You provided plenty of examples to prove your point.

I can introduce you to three healthy, happy, well-adjusted, respectful children who are neither scarred nor psychologically damaged by the "abuse" which supposedly they were subjected to.

I respect your opinion, not because of your age, but rather because of your experience and intelligence and more importantly when proving your point, you're not sitting on a high horse calling us "pathetic".

PurpleJedi said:

LadyCasanova said:

You're too old and set in your ways to really understand the alternative methods other people are

suggesting.

How does that taste?

Lets leave age out of it because wisdom knows no age.

You can say that because you have the experience to back up your words.

You provided plenty of examples to prove your point.

I can introduce you to three healthy, happy, well-adjusted, respectful children who are neither scarred nor psychologically damaged by the "abuse" which supposedly they were subjected to.

I respect your opinion, not because of your age, but rather because of your experience and intelligence and more importantly when proving your point, you're not sitting on a high horse calling us "pathetic".

I never made the claim that spanking was a form of abuse or that you abused your children.

I only made the claim that there are other methods out there that can be used.

Plus, I would love to meet your children.

TonyVanDam said:

Shorty said:

OMG! that was TERRIBLE! yeah sure...she obviousley set them up to be videod but that really only means that this is nothing new! as a mom...I could NOT sit there an listen to that, the smacking sound of the belt the screams and pleas to stop...I'd be running in there saying you better stop now or I'm calling the Fucking police! but this mom?!?!? noooo, she comes in and takes the belt so she can give her a whack. It's THEM that are not coming to the realization that their daughter is growing up. I hope this fool looses his job over this...I hope he looses everything the dick!

I hope he sees this video and realizes what a fucking MONSTER he is.

But the sad part about all of this is that even after watching the video, THIS man is still convince that he didn't do anything wrong 7 years ago.

people that abuse others NEVER see that they were wrong, they feel its their RIGHT...

and the only ones worse are the airheaded useless pieces of 'humanity' that go along with them and help them out..

and im speaking from personal experience.

LadyCasanova said:

PurpleJedi said:

You can say that because you have the experience to back up your words.

You provided plenty of examples to prove your point.

I can introduce you to three healthy, happy, well-adjusted, respectful children who are neither scarred nor psychologically damaged by the "abuse" which supposedly they were subjected to.

I respect your opinion, not because of your age, but rather because of your experience and intelligence and more importantly when proving your point, you're not sitting on a high horse calling us "pathetic".

I never made the claim that spanking was a form of abuse or that you abused your children.

I only made the claim that there are other methods out there that can be used.

Plus, I would love to meet your children.

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that you had.

But that's the general attitude of certain people.

I've always stated that there is a big difference between spaking and beating, between punishment and abuse.

My kids have had time outs and they have had the TV taken out of the room and they've had to write letters of apology. And at the end of the day, they're still rambunctious, energy-ladden little critters that I would take a bullet for in a second.

...Disneyland maybe...?

RodeoSchro said:

angel345 said:

If folks here cannot see beyond those crocodile tears and drama, they are blind as a bat, and gullible as sheep. She's a manipulative wench, and still a thorn in her father's flesh. Notice when he left the room, those crocodile tears stop, and its just the mother in the room? Then when she left, she got up like nothing hit her, and turned that tape off. Believe that it's abuse if you wish. She just sold America a bill of goods. Manipulation at work. I've said my peace.

P.S.- I do not condone the cursing, myself. He should have curb that.

Who cares? She got beaten with a belt. Nothing she could have done is justification for that.

Like I said, give me two minutes in a room alone with that guy. He'll never raise a hand to another human again.

^^ that ^^ what i SAW was someone swinging a belt and not caring what it hit..or where, that is a beating..even if it doesnt leave 'physical scars' it leaves emotional and mental ones..as for the cursing, did you hear that he threatened to hit her f88king face if she didnt comply with turning her ass for a free reign hit??!! it does not matter if she had crocodile tears, or if she did do something she shouldnt have.. the cursing, name callling,general lack of aim and just swinging to hit is aimed at controlling..

makes me sick.. even listening to him talk to her and what he was saying gave me flash backs..

but with me, it wouldnt matter if i didnt do anything wrong... i only wish i was so lucky to have been BEATEN with a belt or extension cord..my abuser chose to use scrap wood to beat me with..

some pieces as big as a 2 by 4.. that 2 inches thick, and 4 inches wide..and long enough to swing like a bat.. and he didnt f88king aim either.. left bruises from my shoulder blades to my calves

and cuts.. that shit was on me marking for over a month..they took pictures to prosecute.. unclothed pictures of course...my mother perjured herself in court claiming SHE did all that damage.. to top it all off, when i was returned home, i was made to apologise to his sorry ass.

and i was barely 12 ...fuck that