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Thread started 08/10/11 9:17am

Graycap23

How can humans be starving in 2011?

How is this possible?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/08/10/saving.ahmed.gupta/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

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Reply #1 posted 08/10/11 9:21am

imago

It's the flying Spagetti Monster's bidding, graycap.

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Reply #2 posted 08/10/11 9:25am

XxAxX

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...-behavior/

The rich are different — and not in a good way, studies suggest

Psychologist and social scientist Dacher Keltner says the rich really are different, and not in a good way: Their life experience makes them less empathetic, less altruistic, and generally more selfish.

In fact, he says, the philosophical battle over economics, taxes, debt ceilings and defaults that are now roiling the stock market is partly rooted in an upper class "ideology of self-interest."

“We have now done 12 separate studies measuring empathy in every way imaginable, social behavior in every way, and some work on compassion and it’s the same story,” he said. “Lower class people just show more empathy, more prosocial behavior, more compassion, no matter how you look at it.”

In an academic version of a Depression-era Frank Capra movie, Keltner and co-authors of an article called “Social Class as Culture: The Convergence of Resources and Rank in the Social Realm,” published this week in the journal Current Directions in Psychological Science, argue that “upper-class rank perceptions trigger a focus away from the context toward the self….”

In other words, rich people are more likely to think about themselves. “They think that economic success and political outcomes, and personal outcomes, have to do with individual behavior, a good work ethic,” said Keltner, a professor of psychology at the University of California, Berkeley.

Because the rich gloss over the ways family connections, money and education helped, they come to denigrate the role of government and vigorously oppose taxes to fund it.

“I will quote from the Tea Party hero Ayn Rand: “‘It is the morality of altruism that men have to reject,’” he said.

Whether or not Keltner is right, there certainly is a “let them cake” vibe in the air. Last week The New York Times report...xury goods, with stores keeping waiting lists for $9,000 coats and the former chairman of Saks saying, “If a designer shoe goes up from $800 to $860, who notices?”

According to Gallup, Americans earning more than $90,000 per year continued to increase their consumer spending in July while middle- and lower-income Americans remained stalled, even as the upper classes argue that they can’t pay any more taxes. Meanwhile, the gap between the wealthiest and the rest of us continues to grow wider, with over 80 percent of the nation’s financial wealth controlled by about 20 percent of the people.

Unlike the rich, lower class people have to depend on others for survival, Keltner argued. So they learn “prosocial behaviors.” They read people better, empathize more with others, and they give more to those in need.

That’s the moral of Capra movies like “You Can’t Take It With You,” in which a plutocrat comes to learn the value of community and family. But Keltner, author of the book “Born To Be Good: The Science of A Meaningful Life,” doesn’t rely on sentiment to make his case.

He points to his own research and that of others. For example, lower class subjects are ... of people in photographs than are rich people.

In video recordings of conversations, rich people are more likely to appear distracted, checking cell phones, doodling, avoiding eye contact, while low-income people make eye contact and nod their heads more frequently signaling engagement.

In one test, for example, Keltner and other colleagues had 115 people play the “dictator game,” a standard trial of economic behavior. “Dictators” were paired with an unseen partner, given ten “points” that represented money, and told they could share as many or as few of the points with the partner as they desired. Lower-class participants gave more even after controlling for gender, age or ethnicity.

Keltner has also studied vagus nerve activation. The vagus nerve helps the brain record and respond to emotional inputs. When subjects are exposed to pictures of starving children, for example, their vagus nerve typically becomes more active as measured by electrodes on their chests and a sensor band around their waists. In recent tests, yet to be published, Keltner has found that those from lower-class backgrounds have more intense activation.

Other studies from other researchers have not produced the clear-cut results Keltner uses to advance his argument. In surveys of charitable giving, some show that low-income people give more, but other studies show the opposite.

“The research regarding income and helping behaviors has always been little bit mixed,” explained Meredith McGinley, a professor of psychology at Pittsburgh’s Chatham University.

Then there is the problem of Tea Partiers’ own class position. While they are funded by the wealthy, many do not identify themselves as wealthy (though there is dispute on the real demographics). Still, a strong allegiance to the American Dream can lead even regular folks to overestimate their own self-reliance in the same way as rich people.

As behavioral economist Mark Wilhelm of Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis pointed out, most people could quickly tell you how much they paid in taxes last year but few could put a dollar amount on how they benefited from government by, say, driving on interstate highways, taking drugs gleaned from federally funded medical research, or using inventions created by people educated in public schools.

There is one interesting piece of evidence showing that many rich people may not be selfish as much as willfully clueless, and therefore unable to make the cognitive link between need and resources. Last year, research at Duke and Harvard universities showed that regardless of political affiliation or income, Americans tended to think wealth distribution ought to be more equal.

The problem? Rich people wrongly believed it already was.

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Reply #3 posted 08/10/11 9:31am

Billmenever

Many may refuse to believe bible prophecy, but that still does not stop the the fact that mankind needs Divine Intervention for solutions to our woes. As horrible sights of starvation, malnutrition, hunger, deforestation, unemployment along with a list longer than can be mentioned continue, any horror is possible in not only 2011 but in any year until what most have been taught to pray , "Our Father, let Your Kingdom Come", comes.

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Reply #4 posted 08/10/11 10:27am

armpit

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Because people in power see to it that they do.

"I don't think you'd do well in captivity." - random person's comment to me the other day
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Reply #5 posted 08/10/11 12:30pm

MarySharon

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Like these are breaking news. Unfortunately starvation does exist since the anciant times and the world never really got rid of it.

Is there any place of refuge one can flee from this insanity
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Reply #6 posted 08/10/11 3:02pm

davetherave676
7

The uk has no ££££££ but £800 million was given 2 africa this year and look at the place....If eye had £800 million i could do a better job than whoever is in charge now!!!!!....Jumbo jets filled with rice/water/biscuits/beans/fucking big macs 4 fuck sake.......wheres the £800 million gone??????not just this year the past 20 damn years....disbelief

Dave Is Nuttier Than A Can Of Planters Peanuts...(Ottensen)
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Reply #7 posted 08/10/11 3:58pm

morningsong

I'd say it's about control, definitely not from lack of resources.

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Reply #8 posted 08/10/11 3:59pm

Teacher

Have you given what you can to organisations that are committed to help? I've given donations to "Doctors without borders" and "Save the children". smile

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Reply #9 posted 08/10/11 4:25pm

NDRU

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it's at least partly because our systems are totally disorganized. They are many pieces, people, and opinons not really working together.

I doubt that the "powers that be" want children to starve, but you see how hard it is to get anything done these days without a bunch of fighting.

My friends and i can hardly agree on where to go to dinner, how can people possibly manage to keep 7 billion people well fed and in homes?

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Reply #10 posted 08/10/11 4:26pm

HotGritz

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Starvattion, like poverty and war, will be with us always. sad

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. rose
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Reply #11 posted 08/10/11 4:35pm

davetherave676
7

Ive seen it in the scriptures...boxed

Dave Is Nuttier Than A Can Of Planters Peanuts...(Ottensen)
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Reply #12 posted 08/10/11 4:52pm

HotGritz

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davetherave6767 said:

Ive seen it in the scriptures...boxed

Jesus said "the poor you will have with you always." IMO this means that for as long as man rules, there will be people who suffer and are hungry. Look at how we poison this world which is and should be ripe with food and resources necessary to sustain life generation after generation. Hell even the animals are starving. Our air is polluted, our water is polluted, our technology supposedly interferes with weather systems so some places that once had rainfall are now experiencing extreme drought. Basically, its all our own fault.

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. rose
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Reply #13 posted 08/10/11 5:02pm

XxAxX

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HotGritz said:

davetherave6767 said:

Ive seen it in the scriptures...boxed

Jesus said "the poor you will have with you always." IMO this means that for as long as man rules, there will be people who suffer and are hungry. Look at how we poison this world which is and should be ripe with food and resources necessary to sustain life generation after generation. Hell even the animals are starving. Our air is polluted, our water is polluted, our technology supposedly interferes with weather systems so some places that once had rainfall are now experiencing extreme drought. Basically, its all our own fault.

no, it's not. this entire planet is one long story of endless suffering over the billions of years of its life. supervolcanoes blasting the crap out of the atmosphere and mass extinctions, mass coronal ejections blighting plant life and ice age after ice age after ice age. it does not matter what we do, it will occur again as it has been for billions of years.

and africa, the gobi desert, becomes a lush, tropical region every few ten thousand years or so. right now, the planet is tipping off a bit of center, causing the rain to not fall on the gobi region. another few thousand years and planet earth will tip back again, the wind patterns will change, or a new mountain range be pushed up by plate tectonics and poof! the gobi will once again bloom. the fossil records show this happening over and over.

the current drought in somalia is not really our fault. industry has only hastened what would have occurred, without fail. the next glacial melt cycle and the ensuing ice age and mass entinctions again. that is, if the next pole shift, asteroid, toxic algae bloom or supervolcano doesn't take us out first.

this planet is without mercy for its living creatures. the changing, shifting earth is responsible for far, far more deaths throughout history than any one species.

doom! edit wink

[Edited 8/10/11 17:38pm]

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Reply #14 posted 08/10/11 7:07pm

FuzzyWitch

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the thing that gets to me is how we donate money to these poor countries but it never reaches the ppl..... where does it go??????????????? mad

Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
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Reply #15 posted 08/10/11 7:14pm

ZombieKitten

Graycap23 said:

How is this possible?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/08/10/saving.ahmed.gupta/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

I read an article once (I think in New Scientist) that said the earth could support a population many times greater than our current one, there IS enough food and resources, the problem isn't that, it's the logistics and politics. Nobody is placing any importance on distribution. GREED stands in the way. Every day tons of food is dumped and wasted and every day people die of starvation.

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Reply #16 posted 08/10/11 7:25pm

wildgoldenhone
y

HotGritz said:

davetherave6767 said:

Ive seen it in the scriptures...boxed

Jesus said "the poor you will have with you always." IMO this means that for as long as man rules, there will be people who suffer and are hungry. Look at how we poison this world which is and should be ripe with food and resources necessary to sustain life generation after generation. Hell even the animals are starving. Our air is polluted, our water is polluted, our technology supposedly interferes with weather systems so some places that once had rainfall are now experiencing extreme drought. Basically, its all our own fault.

nod

And famines are part of the sign that leads to the end of human governments ruling the earth, where God's government/kingdom will be ushered in and put an end to hunger, pollution, corruption on a worldwide scale.

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Reply #17 posted 08/10/11 7:26pm

davetherave676
7

wildgoldenhoney said:

HotGritz said:

Jesus said "the poor you will have with you always." IMO this means that for as long as man rules, there will be people who suffer and are hungry. Look at how we poison this world which is and should be ripe with food and resources necessary to sustain life generation after generation. Hell even the animals are starving. Our air is polluted, our water is polluted, our technology supposedly interferes with weather systems so some places that once had rainfall are now experiencing extreme drought. Basically, its all our own fault.

nod

And famines are part of the sign that leads to the end of human governments ruling the earth, where God's government/kingdom will be ushered in and put an end to hunger, pollution, corruption on a worldwide scale.

The new system of things ......Amen

Dave Is Nuttier Than A Can Of Planters Peanuts...(Ottensen)
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Reply #18 posted 08/10/11 7:33pm

Dewrede

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Not trying to sound inconsiderate or rude or anything

But who goes and lives

on land that's so dry and barren that barely anything can be grown

and where it hardly ever rains

[Edited 8/10/11 19:33pm]

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Reply #19 posted 08/10/11 7:35pm

ZombieKitten

Dewrede said:

Not trying to sound or inconsiderate or rude or anything

But who goes and lives

on land that's so dry and barren that barely anything can be grown

and where it hardly ever rains

That is what I've always said!

Why build your village 14km away from the well rolleyes mad

You know Ethiopia? I saw that on Amazing Race and was surprised at how lush it was there eek I remember the famine there, so I guess those places aren't or weren't always like that.

Not every one has the resources to pick up and move away to make a new life elsewhere, away from their families and history sigh

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Reply #20 posted 08/10/11 7:40pm

Dewrede

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^

Yes i know sad

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Reply #21 posted 08/10/11 7:47pm

johnart

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davetherave6767 said:

wildgoldenhoney said:

nod

And famines are part of the sign that leads to the end of human governments ruling the earth, where God's government/kingdom will be ushered in and put an end to hunger, pollution, corruption on a worldwide scale.

The new system of things ......Amen

So God did it.

What an asshole.

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Reply #22 posted 08/10/11 7:47pm

davetherave676
7

Eye work with africans that when in africa walked miles 4 water now there in the uk they cant get up 2 answer the fone????????????Thats some fucked up shit...disbelief

Dave Is Nuttier Than A Can Of Planters Peanuts...(Ottensen)
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Reply #23 posted 08/10/11 8:03pm

wildgoldenhone
y

johnart said:

davetherave6767 said:

The new system of things ......Amen

So God did it.

What an asshole.

Man did it. They wanted to be independent from God because they thought they knew better, thought they would acheive enlightenment. Adam and Eve decided that for all of their decendants. But instead their decision brought about imperfection and suffering for the human race.

[Edited 8/10/11 20:04pm]

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Reply #24 posted 08/10/11 8:03pm

formallypickle
s

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Because people are selfish that's why


[Edited 8/10/11 20:03pm]

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Reply #25 posted 08/10/11 8:07pm

johnart

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wildgoldenhoney said:

johnart said:

So God did it.

What an asshole.

Man did it. They wanted to be independent from God because they thought they knew better, thought they would acheive enlightenment. Adam and Eve decided that for all of their decendants. But instead their decision brought about imperfection and suffering for the human race.

[Edited 8/10/11 20:04pm]

But the Wizard has always known the outcome, thus making him the ass, unless you subscribe to the tale, in which case there's always some "godly reason we couldn't posssssssssibly fathom" why it's ok for him to let humans suffer...even the innocent ones.


If you try to get in a car drunk and drive your kids home, I know what a likely outcome might be, I ain't lettin you do that bullshit. See how easy that shit works?

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Reply #26 posted 08/10/11 8:24pm

wildgoldenhone
y

johnart said:

wildgoldenhoney said:

Man did it. They wanted to be independent from God because they thought they knew better, thought they would acheive enlightenment. Adam and Eve decided that for all of their decendants. But instead their decision brought about imperfection and suffering for the human race.

[Edited 8/10/11 20:04pm]

But the Wizard has always known the outcome, thus making him the ass, unless you subscribe to the tale, in which case there's always some "godly reason we couldn't posssssssssibly fathom" why it's ok for him to let humans suffer...even the innocent ones.


If you try to get in a car drunk and drive your kids home, I know what a likely outcome might be, I ain't lettin you do that bullshit. See how easy that shit works?

Good question. There is a difference in between him causing and allowing it to happen. So you think that if he stopped Adam and Eve from disobeying that would have solved all the problems from the start? There is more to the story than just Adam and Eve. What would you do it someone had challenged that you were a bad parent?

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Reply #27 posted 08/10/11 8:24pm

FauxReal

Now I feel guilty. 20 minutes ago, I was too lazy to even cook ramen noodles.

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Reply #28 posted 08/10/11 8:45pm

johnart

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wildgoldenhoney said:

johnart said:

But the Wizard has always known the outcome, thus making him the ass, unless you subscribe to the tale, in which case there's always some "godly reason we couldn't posssssssssibly fathom" why it's ok for him to let humans suffer...even the innocent ones.


If you try to get in a car drunk and drive your kids home, I know what a likely outcome might be, I ain't lettin you do that bullshit. See how easy that shit works?

Good question. There is a difference in between him causing and allowing it to happen. So you think that if he stopped Adam and Eve from disobeying that would have solved all the problems from the start? There is more to the story than just Adam and Eve. What would you do it someone had challenged that you were a bad parent?

I'm not sure I understand the bolded part.

Here's my response to the rest:

If you're all knowing and all powerful and creator of all, no, there is not a difference to me between causing and allowing. If there was a starving child within your capability to help, wouldn't you help them? You didn't cause them to starve. And if you let them starve you might even teach someone else a lesson...still, would you?


The whole Adam & Eve thing is pointless to me. If he'd stopped them from disobeying from the start, of course it would've solved the problems. Everyone's always goin on about how our problems come from them disobeying in the first place and him "allowing" things to happen due to that. If there was a God and a Garden of Eden and bliss and all that, what's the point in letting it go to shit so that then it can come full circle???

Unless he's not just an asshole but an arrogant one at that who just wants to tell us TOLD YOU SO!!! in the end. Possible. hmmm

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Reply #29 posted 08/10/11 9:38pm

wildgoldenhone
y

johnart said:

wildgoldenhoney said:

Good question. There is a difference in between him causing and allowing it to happen. So you think that if he stopped Adam and Eve from disobeying that would have solved all the problems from the start? There is more to the story than just Adam and Eve. What would you do it someone had challenged that you were a bad parent?

I'm not sure I understand the bolded part.

Here's my response to the rest:

If you're all knowing and all powerful and creator of all, no, there is not a difference to me between causing and allowing. If there was a starving child within your capability to help, wouldn't you help them? You didn't cause them to starve. And if you let them starve you might even teach someone else a lesson...still, would you?


The whole Adam & Eve thing is pointless to me. If he'd stopped them from disobeying from the start, of course it would've solved the problems. Everyone's always goin on about how our problems come from them disobeying in the first place and him "allowing" things to happen due to that. If there was a God and a Garden of Eden and bliss and all that, what's the point in letting it go to shit so that then it can come full circle???

Unless he's not just an asshole but an arrogant one at that who just wants to tell us TOLD YOU SO!!! in the end. Possible. hmmm

Ok, where Adam and Eve come in is not only that they were the start of where human imperfection began but if you examine the context of the story you can see that this was more than just a simple act of disobedience but slander on God's name and a challenge that challenged God, their father having the right to set the standards of right and wrong and that he had the right to rule over humans.

Don't know how familiar you are with the story from Genesis 3:1-5, but the snake seduced Eve to thinking that she could make her own rules and actually become 'enlightened'. The snake said that God lied to them and they would not die if they disobeyed. So in this moment she, Adam and Satan raised an important issue that could not be answered with a simple restraining of them. If God just destroyed them all and started again, the issue would still be up in the air to be challenged again - possibly by one of the trillions of angels who were watching to see if the opposers were right in their challenge. In order to have a proper answer to the issues raised, God had to allow the challenge to take place, to allow humans to make their own rules as to what they think is right and wrong and rule over themselves - to see if Satan was right.

Of course God knew the answer but he allowed them to prove their claim to be fair and to prove for all time his right to rule. If ever this issue would be raised in the future afterwards, all would know the answer that humans cannot prove succesful in ruling over themselves and other humans. This doesn't mean that he is a hard ruler and does not see the suffering of humankind, it does break his heart to see the suffering but he can't step in and rescue everyone, it would be counterproductive to answering the charge against him. But he will reverse the effects and promises to reward with a chance at everlasting life in perfect conditions after the claim has been fully proved. This results of this issue will be a touchstone.

In the future he promises that humans will become perfect and not die anymore, or the results of Adam and Eve's disobedience will be reversed and gone forever such as death and imperfection.

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