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Reply #180 posted 07/06/11 1:04pm

MrSoulpower

jone70 said:

Here is, imo, a good explanation of the lack of enough evidence to find her guilty of murder:

But the circumstantial nature of the prosecution’s case seemed to be insurmountable. There was no direct evidence tying Ms. Anthony to the death of her daughter. Forensic evidence was tenuous, and no witnesses ever connected her to Caylee’s death. Investigators found no traces of Ms. Anthony’s DNA or irrefutable signs of chloroform or decomposition inside the trunk of Ms. Anthony’s car, where prosecutors said she stashed Caylee before disposing of her body. The prosecution was also hurt by the fact that nobody knows exactly when or how Caylee died; her body was too badly decomposed to pinpoint cause of death. And it permitted Mr. Baez, Ms. Anthony’s lawyer, to create a reasonable doubt in jurors’ minds — despite the prosecution’s relentless portrayal of her as a callous liar who sought to kill Caylee so she could lead a carefree life of boyfriends and bars.

From an article in the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/20...tml?ref=us

This sums it up pretty well.

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Reply #181 posted 07/06/11 1:07pm

MrSoulpower

minneapolisFunq said:

Honestly, I don't give a fuck either way. As bad as it sounds, she only killed her own child. If she had taken a life from an innocent family I would feel differently about the verdict.

I don't understand your logic here (or lack of). Caylee was innocent, it doesn't matter if she was Casey's daughter or a total stranger. This makes zero difference, morally or by law.

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Reply #182 posted 07/06/11 1:07pm

RKJCNE

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I understand the outrage, but what evidence did they even have?

2012: The Queen Returns
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Reply #183 posted 07/06/11 1:10pm

MrSoulpower

RKJCNE said:

I understand the outrage, but what evidence did they even have?

Relating to the murder, zero.

They can't even say for sure that Caylee was murdered. The only thing they can say for sure is that she's dead.

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Reply #184 posted 07/06/11 1:19pm

RKJCNE

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MrSoulpower said:

RKJCNE said:

I understand the outrage, but what evidence did they even have?

Relating to the murder, zero.

They can't even say for sure that Caylee was murdered. The only thing they can say for sure is that she's dead.

Exactly, however the fact that she got off of the neglet charges is beyond me.

2012: The Queen Returns
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Reply #185 posted 07/06/11 1:26pm

MrSoulpower

RKJCNE said:

MrSoulpower said:

Relating to the murder, zero.

They can't even say for sure that Caylee was murdered. The only thing they can say for sure is that she's dead.

Exactly, however the fact that she got off of the neglet charges is beyond me.

Like I said above, from what I have seen presented in trial, the circumstances around Caylee's disappearance are very unclear and circumstancial at best. Was there hard evidence that Cayless disappeared while she was with her mother? Could she have been with the grandparents or a third party? I think the fact that family members lied on stand about numerous issues makes it hard for the jury to come to a valid conclusion about what happened.

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Reply #186 posted 07/06/11 1:31pm

HotGritz

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This would have never happened on CSI

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. rose
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Reply #187 posted 07/06/11 1:32pm

MrSoulpower

HotGritz said:

This would have never happened on CSI

biggrin

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Reply #188 posted 07/06/11 1:46pm

NaughtyKitty

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Joan Rivers just called into a live show and called Casey Anthony OJ with a uterus.

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Reply #189 posted 07/06/11 2:07pm

HotGritz

avatar

NaughtyKitty said:

Joan Rivers just called into a live show and called Casey Anthony OJ with a uterus.

wwwwooooowwwww!!!!! Joan takes no prisoners.

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. rose
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Reply #190 posted 07/06/11 2:31pm

Identity

NaughtyKitty said:

Joan Rivers just called into a live show and called Casey Anthony OJ with a uterus.

Battle-axe Joan needs to book a new appointment with her plastic surgeon.

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Reply #191 posted 07/06/11 3:12pm

minneapolisFun
q

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She (allegedly)killed her own child. She didn't harm anyone else's children.

How is it hard to understand why I think that makes things less of a public dilemma?

You don't have to like it.

It really doesn't matter either way because she is innocent.

You're so glam, every time I see you I wanna slam!
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Reply #192 posted 07/06/11 3:32pm

Serena

SUPRMAN said:

Serena said:

Circumstantial evidence IS evidence and a case can be decided only on it. The only way expert witnesses contradicted themselves was when they were called by the defense and got turned State's witnesses. The defense had NO credible experts AT ALL, if you think so, name one.

?

Their cross examination may favor one side or the other but the experts are paid by their respective sides and do not "turn."

It is perfectly legal to use an expert to refute another expert's testimony.

By 'turning',I mean they ended up confirming what the State was presenting when they were cross-examined by the State. Almost every one of them ended up agreeing with the State when they were told the truth and not Baez's partial details. The old coot Spitz (who should NEVER be allowed on a witness stand or in an autopsy room EVER AGAIN) didn't know anything about the case and ended up breaking the skull when it didn't even need to be opened. His own son, who is also an ME, also disagreed with him and his methods/conclusions. The man hasn't actually performed autopsies for years, yet still whores himself out for the $$$. (Technically, it wasn't even an 'autopsy' since there were only skeletal remains, but I can't remember the proper term for the procedure now.)

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Reply #193 posted 07/06/11 3:37pm

Serena

SUPRMAN said:

Serena said:

Yeah, I tend to get emotional when someone gets away with murdering their child. But you keep on enjoying yourself with that ignorant jury.

Really? Or just when it's on tv?

Yes, really. Of course I get upset when someone gets away with murdering their ex-wife and friend too. Do I read up on EVERY case in the country? No, but when the trial is broadcast, it's easier to pay attention. I don't watch the 'talking heads' and their take, I watch the actual trial and transcripts, when available. There were only a couple of sidebar transcripts made available from this one though, wish there were more. The OJ ones were the real eye-openers though, from those sidebars it was very apparent that everyone involved knew he was guilty.

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Reply #194 posted 07/06/11 3:42pm

Serena

babynoz said:

Serena said:

I have watched every day's court proceedings and please believe me, there was plenty of evidence, even the Defense admitting she committed aggravated child abuse. Baez got away with crap just so there wouldn't be reason for appeal and I hope the judge follows through with his contempt charges and complaints to the Florida Bar. Baez suborned perjury, obstructed justice and should be made to pay for it one way or another.

I wish I'd been able to follow the case more closely but I mostly caught recaps on the news because I can't stomach Nancy Grace.

Did you watch it on court TV?

No, I can't stand listening to most of their commentators and commercial interruptions, so I watched the live feeds usually on WFTV.com (they have a great library of info for those interested in learning more and their commentator, Bill Schaeffer (defense atty), did informative wrap-ups of each day too) or on CNN's live feed.

http://www.wftv.com/casey...index.html

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Reply #195 posted 07/06/11 3:46pm

Serena

HotGritz said:

Serena said:

She did talk about putting her up for adoption after she had her, her mother had also threatened to take custody before.

So what happened there? That seemed like all the out card she would ever need. She gets to live the la vida loca slut life and her parents get to keep their grandbaby. Lots of families have a similar arrangement. But oh nooooo....she has to murder the baby and dump her body in the yard like some trash. A stray dog would have a better burial. I can only pray the child was sleeping or something and didn't have to consciously endure being bound, gagged , held down and damn near suffocated and strangled by her own mommy. disbelief

Yeah, no kidding, I also hope she didn't have any fear or pain. sad

Casey & Cindy have a very strange relationship and in Casey's own words 'she (herself) is a spiteful bitch' and would never have given her mother the satisfaction of raising Caylee.

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Reply #196 posted 07/06/11 3:47pm

Serena

jockeyb4u said:

SUPRMAN said:

Really? Or just when it's on tv?

What an insulting question. What normal person doesn't feel some sort of emotion when someone murders their child, and then to make matters worse, gets away with it. Regardless, if its on TV or not.

I can't think of any reason why you would ask this person a question like this other than just being a prick.

Yeah, he likes to throw out crap like that frequently. It is insulting, but I just ignore that part of it because he occasionally will discuss things rationally.

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Reply #197 posted 07/06/11 3:48pm

KingBAD

avatar

emotionalism, and public oppinion

have no place in the courtroom.

maybe that's why o.j. and casey got off.

all the deffence has to point out is how

the prosicution is trying the case on the streets

to assure that the publics hates them

or already has decided guilt

this combined with a bad presentation of the facts

and sitting at the table making 'unprofessional'

gestures towards the deffense throughout the

trial... these things add up.

i am KING BAD!!!
you are NOT...
evilking
STOP ME IF YOU HEARD THIS BEFORE...
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Reply #198 posted 07/06/11 3:52pm

Serena

TonyVanDam said:

Serena said:

No one needs to be a witness to a murder, there was TONS of evidence in this case that this suckass jury didn't even bother to look at when they were deliberating. They just wanted to go home and took the easy way out. I hope each and every one of them quickly have a rude awakening as to the wrong they have committed. Their family and friends should shun them for their ignorant and lazy work on this case.

According to THIS follow-up report, there were not any "tons" of solid evidences to begin with, hence why the D.A. office lost big time:

http://news.yahoo.com/anthony-trial-lack-evidence-good-defense-000636253.html

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — Prosecutors proved Casey Anthony was a liar, but convinced the jury of little else.

The government failed to establish how 2-year-old Caylee Anthony died and they couldn't find her mother's DNA on the duct tape they said was used to suffocate her. There was conflicting testimony on whether the putrid smell inside the family's car was a decomposing body or simply trash, and it was never quite clear why chloroform was so important.

The lack of evidence and the doubt raised by the defense — that Caylee accidentally drowned in the family's pool — was enough to win an acquittal. After a trial of a month and a half, the jury took less than 11 hours to find Anthony not guilty of first-degree murder, aggravated manslaughter and aggravated child abuse.

She was convicted only of four misdemeanor counts of lying to investigators who were looking into the June 2008 disappearance of Caylee. She lied about being employed at Universal Studios. She lied about leaving Caylee with a baby-sitter, then again when she recounted to investigators that she had told two imaginary people that Caylee was missing. She also lied about receiving a phone call from Caylee the day before she was reported missing.

Lead defense attorney Jose Baez was criticized by many legal pundits for his strategy and loosely throwing around allegations of molestation and incest. Baez suggested early on that Casey's father, George Anthony, helped cover up the drowning and sexually abused his daughter, accusations the father vehemently denied. Baez also claimed Casey's brother might be Caylee's father and that a meter reader who discovered the girl's remains may have moved them, more allegations that weren't substantiated.

Ultimately, though, the burden of proof wasn't on Baez.

"I don't think it was Baez' great lawyering that won the case," said Richard Rosenbaum, a Fort Lauderdale criminal defense attorney who closely followed the trial but wasn't involved in the case. "I think it goes back to the prosecution and the weaknesses in their case."

Kendall Coffey, a former U.S. attorney for Miami and now a defense attorney, said Baez had to offer an alternative to the prosecution's theory of how Caylee was killed, though he was less impressed with the molestation accusations.

"The biggest questions were the 'how' and the 'why,'" Coffey said. "Even the state acknowledged they weren't exactly sure of how Caylee was killed. That was a candid acknowledgement, but Baez seized on that."

Orlando's chief prosecutor said his attorneys were disappointed with the verdict but they presented every piece of evidence that existed.

"This is a dry-bones case. Very, very difficult to prove," said Orange County State Attorney Lawson Lamar. "The delay in recovering little Caylee's remains worked to our considerable disadvantage."

Shortly after Lamar's news conference, one of the lead prosecutors on the case, Jeff Ashton, announced he would retire at the end of the week following 30 years as a prosecutor. A spokeswoman for the prosecutor's office said Ashton and Lamar had previously discussed his retirement.

The six-month gap between when Casey was reported missing and when her remains were found in December 2008 affected the amount of scientific evidence investigators could glean from the pieces of bones, some as small as a pebble. And prosecutors didn't have any evidence that put Casey at the scene where the remains were found.

There was also confusion on why chloroform was so important. Chloroform is a chemical compound that can be used to knock someone unconscious and also is found in human decomposition, but prosecutors never made clear exactly what its role it played in Caylee's death.

Prosecutors said Casey searched for the term "chloroform" on the family's computer, though when her mother, Cindy, took the stand late in the trial, she said she searched for it. Later, job records indicated that Cindy might have been at work when the searches were made.

Then there was the smell test. After prosecutors presented an expert witness who said that a carpet stain taken from the family's car trunk had a smell consistent with a decomposing body, the defense called the expert's former colleague who testified to the opposite.

Baez addressed his naysayers during a press conference.

"This case has brought on new challenges for all of us. Challenges in the criminal justice system, challenges in the media, and I think we should all take this as an opportunity to learn and to realize that you cannot convict someone until they have had their day in court," he said.

Yale Galanter, who has represented O.J. Simpson in a number of cases since 2000, said he was not surprised by the verdict.

"The issue is there was absolutely no evidence linking her to the death. None," said the Miami lawyer. "So what the defense did was brilliant, they brought up the drowning, they brought up the sexual molestation, and it really got the jury to focus away from the bad behavior of the mom."

____

Lush reported from St. Petersburg. Associated Press writers Laura Wides-Munoz and Kelli Kennedy in Miami contributed to this report.

That's all BS and I'd believe an OJ attorney...ummm NEVER!

The Medical Examiner determined it was HOMICIDE, they don't have to prove how the homicide was committed, but she said it was duct tape. Who puts duct tape on a child that accidentally drowned? Of course there wouldn't be any DNA left, it was in a hot swamp for 6 months and would have decomposed. Quit listening to the red herrings thrown out and go examine the Discovery, Evidence, Depositions and Testimony instead of taking someone's word for it that didn't have anything to do with the case.

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Reply #199 posted 07/06/11 3:56pm

Serena

728huey said:

SUPRMAN said:

The public is seeing a different picture than the jurors.

And the public wasn't actually privvy to all of the evidence and testimony brought into the case either, nor did they have to take the law into account the way the jurors did during deliberations. Plus the jurors were sequestered from having to watch Nancy Grace and all of the TV pundits practically convict Casey Anthony before all the evidence was presented. Just because the juors voted to acquit Casey Anthony doesn't mean they are a bunch of idiots; in fact, they may have thought she was a sociopathic liar who butchered her daughter like John Wayne Gacy but let her go because the prosecution couldn't prove Caylee was even murdered, let alone that Casey Anthony actually killed her.

typing

Bolded info = NOT TRUE, it's all there for you and anyone else to read/watch during and after the trial (see my link above), it's Public Record and Florida has a 'Sunshine Law'. There's actually A LOT more that the public knows, which the jury did not due to various reasons.

If that child drowned accidentally in the pool, do you think those grandparents would still have it up and be swimming in it? If it was an accident, why didn't anyone call 911 or try and resucitate her? Who makes an accident look like a murder?

[Edited 7/6/11 15:57pm]

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Reply #200 posted 07/06/11 4:07pm

Serena

babynoz said:

TonyVanDam said:

That is because most of the American people are more pissed with the jurors not seeing the case the same exact way that American people (as public opinions) themselves see it.

Right. Trying the case in the media isn't the same as inside the courtroom, trust me. In the article you posted for example, how can there be a smell of death in the car trunk and no dna evidence in there? Or how could they not find dna on the duct tape? And what about the experts who disagreed on the way the autopsy was done?

And all of attorneys and judges they have interviewed so far say the same thing. The State Attorney over-charged the case in the first place because they didn't have enough for a first degree case to begin with.

The defense didn't even seem that good but it seems the prosecution wasn't able to close up the gaping holes in their case.

The car still stunk 2 years later. There was no DNA found of ANYONE'S, because Mommy Dearest cleaned the fuck out of the car before it was examined by the Police. No prints or anything from the tow yard folks or Dad, who drove the car from the tow yard, nada. They did find a hair of Caylee's in the trunk which had a 'death band', meaning it can ONLY come from a deceased body. That baby was in the trunk, NO QUESTION about that. That's why Casey put a bag of trash in there (to try and excuse the smell), parked the car next to a dumpster when she abandoned it (again to cover the smell), called her friend (this was testified to in court) only to say that something must've died in her car (like a squirrel) because it smelled so bad.

See my other post regarding the (not an) autopsy.

All these facts that the jury ignored or didn't understand the Science involved, is why those of us who paid attention are upset.

Even if the jury didn't think it was 1st Degree, they should have at least charged her with 2nd degree or Aggravated child abuse.

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Reply #201 posted 07/06/11 4:11pm

Serena

jone70 said:

Here is, imo, a good explanation of the lack of enough evidence to find her guilty of murder:

But the circumstantial nature of the prosecution’s case seemed to be insurmountable. There was no direct evidence tying Ms. Anthony to the death of her daughter. Forensic evidence was tenuous, and no witnesses ever connected her to Caylee’s death. Investigators found no traces of Ms. Anthony’s DNA or irrefutable signs of chloroform or decomposition inside the trunk of Ms. Anthony’s car, where prosecutors said she stashed Caylee before disposing of her body. The prosecution was also hurt by the fact that nobody knows exactly when or how Caylee died; her body was too badly decomposed to pinpoint cause of death. And it permitted Mr. Baez, Ms. Anthony’s lawyer, to create a reasonable doubt in jurors’ minds — despite the prosecution’s relentless portrayal of her as a callous liar who sought to kill Caylee so she could lead a carefree life of boyfriends and bars.

From an article in the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/20...tml?ref=us

Bolded part is also UNTRUE! There was positive proof of HUMAN decomposition in the trunk and enormous amounts of chloroform. Even the Defense tried to rationalize why it appeared. The Defense's 'expert witness' was tricked by the Def and not told that the sample he tested had been aired out for 4 days, and he still picked up traces of chloroform and other chemicals. On cross-ex, when asked if he was aware of the 'airing out', he said NO, he had not been told that and that would explain the differences between his readings and the other high ones done by Dr. Vass.

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Reply #202 posted 07/06/11 4:14pm

Serena

HotGritz said:

This would have never happened on CSI

lol Unfortunately, that's what juries are coming to expect and that's just not real life.

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Reply #203 posted 07/06/11 4:15pm

Serena

minneapolisFunq said:

She (allegedly)killed her own child. She didn't harm anyone else's children.

How is it hard to understand why I think that makes things less of a public dilemma?

You don't have to like it.

It really doesn't matter either way because she is innocent.

No, a Not Guilty verdict does not mean she was 'innocent', just means they didn't think there was enough proof for the charges, which is NOT the same thing.

Also forgot to mention as a general FYI - if the officer that was called out to the recovery site in August of 2008 would have actually looked where Roy Kronk said he'd spotted something, there would have been more evidence. That officer was FIRED because he didn't even go into the woods and look, but lied about it and then confessed.

Also, Cheney Mason (def atty) blabbed all about the media coverage and how she was 'tried in the press'. Guess he has forgotten the interview(s) he gave saying SHE WAS GUILTY before he joined the defense team...fucking scumbag.


To those who think it might have been an accident, why would she have lied about the kidnapping and stayed in prison for 3 years if that were true?!? Why would her baby have duct tape covering her mouth? Her parent said people thought maybe she had drowned and she gave a sarcastic 'surprise, surprise' response (on video). The police also offered her the chance to come forth with any accident scenario too, but she stuck with the nanny kidnapping story. Drowning was NEVER brought up by her or her team until their Opening Statements.

The jury just flat out ignored their instructions to study the evidence. They took Baez's comments as testimony (which it's not) and have mentioned the term 'an accident that snowballed out of control', which was said by one witness and the judge instructed them NOT to consider that comment as fact, only as to whether she could impeach the Dad about an affair, since that was hearsay.) How could they have reviewed 300+ pieces of evidence and almost 6 weeks of testimony, without ever asking questions or for clarification in less than 10 hours? (which included a lot of 'housekeeping/paperwork' time).


[Edited 7/6/11 17:14pm]

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Reply #204 posted 07/06/11 5:25pm

Serena

[img:$uid]http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii171/Hegario/42405.jpg[/img:$uid]

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Reply #205 posted 07/06/11 5:31pm

HotGritz

avatar

Serena said:

[img:$uid]http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii171/Hegario/42405.jpg[/img:$uid]

OOOOOMMMMMYYYYYGGGGAAAWWWDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whoever came up with that is genius! Why didn't I think of that! fit Damn the amount of money that person can make...unless these two parasites are considered private citizens whose images cannot be used and profited from without their expressed consent. confused

Anyway... that funny as hell. Those two ought to marry and breed slave trolls for the military so our troops can come home.

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. rose
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Reply #206 posted 07/06/11 5:49pm

ThruTheEyesOfW
onder

avatar

HotGritz said:

Serena said:

[img:$uid]http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii171/Hegario/42405.jpg[/img:$uid]

OOOOOMMMMMYYYYYGGGGAAAWWWDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whoever came up with that is genius! Why didn't I think of that! fit Damn the amount of money that person can make...unless these two parasites are considered private citizens whose images cannot be used and profited from without their expressed consent. confused

Anyway... that funny as hell. Those two ought to marry and breed slave trolls for the military so our troops can come home.

omg at that pic!!!!

faint faint

GAAAAAAAAAAAAATDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN!

Now all we need is "Hide yo husbands" lol

Wait...

eek

The salvation of man is through love and in love. - Dr. V. Frankl

"When you close your heart, you close your mind." - Michael Jackson (Man In The Mirror)

"I don't need anger management, I need people to stop pissing me off" lol
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Reply #207 posted 07/06/11 6:03pm

SUPRMAN

avatar

HotGritz said:

Casey's lawyer can kiss my cheeks! This mofo talking about her case was an example of why the death penalty doesn't work. eek the hell? So this bastard only took the case because it was capital murder and he has an agenda? The summabitchass doesn't give a fuck that there was no justice for a murdered baby girl? I say run his ass over with a dump truck and have Casey's stank ass being dragged from the rear tires. That goes for all these punk ass lawyers trying to make names for themselves and for all those slut bot bitches abusing and murdering their children. I swear.....God and evolution played chess and they both loss. Fuckin' human race aint shit!!!!

neutral

Ok i feel better now.

Her attorney cannot be there for justice for a murdered baby girl. The murdered baby girl is not his client. He did his sworn duty and obligation for his client. That's his job.

It doesn't matter if he had a secondary agenda, as long as it didn't interfere with his duty which was to defend his client and keep her from being executed. He succeeded admirably with a lot of help from the prosecution.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #208 posted 07/06/11 6:05pm

SUPRMAN

avatar

Empress said:

Tittypants said:

If Casey Anthony was a minority, would she had still been found not guilty?

Take a look at OJ. He's black (last time I looked) and he got off with 2 murders. At least now, he's where he belongs.

As far as Casey, she will get what she deserves one day. A child is dead, so who killed her and who dumped the body? She did, but the state couldn't prove it. Same as OJ!

In both cases, we don't what either of them actually did.

I'm more sure that Casey killed her daughter than OJ killed anyone.

I think they both know who did it though.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #209 posted 07/06/11 6:10pm

SUPRMAN

avatar

SCNDLS said:

HotGritz said:

Ahh but you're forgetting that OJ had those other two higly coveted commodities: celebrity and money.

There are three things that get you buy in life and free you from the stickiest jams: Celebrity, Money and White Privilege/Looks. Now for the latter hyphenated item I have to state that if Caylee were some busted back burner bitch with missing teeth and a weak chin she would have gone to prison in a heart beat.

P.S. OJ could have lived the la vida loca if his ass wasn't constantly out there cheezin, playing golf, cavorting with random beckys and hanging out with third tier mobsters. That fool is right where he belongs. Hopefully Casey will follow in his footsteps and fuck up over the next few years.

yeahthat How folks LOVE trotting OJ out to say "he's black and got off" as if he is representative of the average black defendant is completely ridiculous.

Knowing he's the only exception to rule they know of.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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