gemini13 said:

Ohhh...you gonna get it!!!...COME 'ERE!!!....WHAP WHAP WHAP WHAP WHAP WHAPWHAP WHAP WHAP!!!

DexMSR said:

I only wish what you said were true……… An Independent Woman who doesn't need to be emotionally or financially dependent on a man. I wish every American woman were like this. This is the only type of woman I would ever be with, I’ll leave the dependent, needy, and eventually medicated housewives to you.


Another reason why I love my mother so.

I think the attitude that a woman should make a man feel like the "man of the house" is just as dumb as the women who want to be taken care of by a man and want a man to treat them like a queen. Wake up men and women.It's 2005.

Spats said:

we str8 people need to be free of our gender roles. for real.

Women who give blow jobs are a classy bunch aren't they. Cough, Cough.

Well no matter how you cut it...THERE ARE ROLES WOMEN PLAY AND ROLES MEN PLAY in the home and society. It is a reality that women are nurturers by instinct and that does not stop with just her children...as her man is the direct result of her children so nurturing does not end or begin when a child is introduced into the fabric of your family. I am solely speaking upon "nurturing" as in taking care of your man's needs such as cooking, cleaning (which should be shared) serving your man his dinner, but not to the point where you all are thinking that you are going to be a "servant"...you will serve your children, but will not show a small amount of appreciation for a man that is "taking care of business" in the home and serve him? Why is that in American Women?

Now...if you are an exception to this rule, then I applaud you and your efforts in your home, but an overwhelming majority of women in America are just not doing this anymore. I don't condone the mindset that man is head of household and should be totally catered to like the fifties...NEVER THAT...I am just saying the role of nurturer should never be abandoned.

lilgish said:

Question...did she raise you alone?

DexMSR said:

with my grandma....I might see were your going....but I'll wait ..

lilgish said:

Yes...U see exactly where I am going.....as I was raised by a single strong and independent Mom as well...and I still wonder how and why that was? Something to think about in relation to this thread.

You thought I was gonna blast on that shit didn't you...whap...LOL...say it...never expected me to tell you I am in the same boat...did you...LOL...whap!!

DexMSR said:

Dex, I agree, but I think that we (American women) don't understand because we haven't been taught how to support men. For many years, after that whole sexual revolution thing, men were the enemy. I think women began creating our own paths and we haven't gotten back to understanding what makes a man happy. In addition, I believe that this "liberation" thing has caused some women to become "enslaved" in the notion that independence does not allow for inter-dependence. There is also the dynamic of some men becoming conditioned, by independent women, to not be as supportive and responsible with women. It is a whole cycle. (sigh)

Getting back to my point, I grew up in a home where both parents had powerful careers so I did not see my mother do a whole lot of traditional supporting of my father. Now that I am older I can see that she made sure those traditional things were done, but I just didn't pay attention. As an adult I have had men tell me that I am not supportive and I truly didn't know what they were talking about. (Maybe you need to teach some classes on that.) I have had to learn those finer points of being a supportive and nurturing woman from men, those I was dating and those that I wasn't. Maybe men need to remind us what they need in order for us to be supportive.

This is my personal "soap box" because I went to a women's college and learned how to perfect being independent, but no one ever told me that perfectly independent women are alone!!

DexMSR said:

what if the man can't live up to his "role". What is a woman supposed to do? Why shouldn't a woman want an independent life? she has handled the male role well all byherself as far as I can see.

lilgish said:

I am with you sista....

DexMSR said:

I'm a man.. yea American women can be a trip....I hear you man.....

[Edited 5/12/05 9:58am]
[Edited 5/12/05 10:00am]

MBlaineEverywhere said:

This is an excellent viewpoint.

It is a shame the "women's movement" has clouded the issue of continuing to serve your man. Women are quick to pass judgement as soon as they see the word "serve" before really thinking about what it means to do so. So the emotions of "I'm not a slave" "I'm not serving no man" comes into play when it is not intended in such a manner. And...those women will end up alone. When "I" say "serve your man" I mean still doing what it takes to make him feel like he is a man. C'mon now ladies...you all know that we love for you to cook, be sexy, serve us a meal, nurture us and the kids, be the matriarch that you are. Doing this "should" and only should come about when YOU are in fact made to feel like a woman in return, but there are still roles that are in place and the women of today are simply not doing that anymore or it is not as prominent as it once was. Men "and" women have desires, needs, and expectations in their relationships and BOTH must be attended to.

lilgish said:

Ooops!

I was all ready to jump on you, Dex when I first read your posts but I do understand where you are coming from.

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

Whewwwww!!!

Finally a woman that truly understands!

Whap!!

CarrieLee said:

DexMSR said:

There is also the fear, real or perceived, that we will not be viewed as intelligent, interesting, vibrant, and valuable people if we take on the qualities that we have been taught to view as the mother/whore. We end up in a sort of cognitive dissonance of wanting to be the sexy nurturer, but fearing that our "woman pass" will be revoked.

MBlaineEverywhere said:

That sounds as if it is in YOUR OWN MIND and that may need to be tended to...as I know NO MAN that doesn't wish to still have that "mother/whore" in their midsts. But why even look at in this regard...do you not understand what I stated above?

DexMSR said:

I for one don't get you at all.

I'm still not understanding you. Maybe that's why you're feeling this way.
I think we agree relationships are a partnership and that each most pull thier own, but I don't get the paradox of saying women should do all of these household things and yet not be subservient. Why must gender roles be defined so clearly for everyone? I'm just not getting you here. Why does supporting my man mean cooking and cleaning and taking care of the kids? Sure, it COULD be any of those things. But I don't get why you're breaking it down to those things.

DexMSR said:

spoken like a gentleman and great topic as well!

I don't see anything at all wrong wth a woman wanting to be treated like a Queen in 2005 or a man like a King... As long as it is mutual. I don't see anything wrong with making a man feel needed. Sure I can pump my own gas, but he likes going to do it for me so I don't have to stand outside in the snow or even mess up my nails. He is fine with that. In turn I cook, clean (which I also detest), and am there for him to talk to when he's has had a rough day. he opens up to me because I don't assume that he wants me to 'fix' or 'solve' his problem. I just listen. I am not afraid to ask him about something if I am not sure or don't know and he doesn't make me feel stupid with his answers. When he asked me to marry him he said he needed a partner in eveything he does. He wanted me to be his help. His Queen... I am. and proud of it. I think everyone got 'gender roles' mixed up when they began to discredit femininity as something that was to be used against u and qualified u to be less than a man. Men and women are wired to handle things differently naturally. While men use authority women use influence. Neither is less than the other.

BTW, he can cook and clean and give a damn good massage also!

purpleizpassion said:

FINALLY!!!!!



Excellent....I commend you ...and your marriage!

NOW "THIS" IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!!!

DexMSR said:

I am clear that I am working out my own issue on your thread.
I understand what you stated. You asked what is it with American women and I am telling you. We have a whole lot of stuff thrown at us as we grow and develop and it is difficult to sort out what does and doesn't work for us. We get pulled in both directions.

CarrieMpls said:

It is a shame the "women's movement" has clouded the issue of continuing to serve your man. Women are quick to pass judgement as soon as they see the word "serve" before really thinking about what it means to do so. So the emotions of "I'm not a slave" "I'm not serving no man" comes into play when it is not intended in such a manner. And...those women will end up alone. When "I" say "serve your man" I mean still doing what it takes to make him feel like he is a man. C'mon now ladies...you all know that we love for you to cook, be sexy, serve us a meal, nurture us and the kids, be the matriarch that you are. Doing this "should" and only should come about when YOU are in fact made to feel like a woman in return, but there are still roles that are in place and the women of today are simply not doing that anymore or it is not as prominent as it once was. Men "and" women have desires, needs, and expectations in their relationships and BOTH must be attended to.

Do you understand now Carriebaby....whap!

DexMSR said:

true equality!

MBlaineEverywhere said:

This is a [b]perfect[\b] response to this thread. Gender roles are taught and developed. Unforunately, I do think American women are being taught that they can't have it both ways. That we can't have traditional roles, be supportive and in some ways cater to our man. From some reason we think that we lessen our selves by "taking care" our men.

What I have found is that men do like, need that support and I've LEARNED that the "mother/whore" scenario isn't something to shy away from completely. A man needs the attention of his woman. Its just that plain and simple.

I think in regards to relationship skills, this is something that we are lacking today. We don't understand that BASIC needs of the other gender.



On another website there was a discussion about the Destiny Child song that talks about catering to their man. I think the song speaks to this topic.

DexMSR said:

Nope. Still not getting you.
I know that just cause I'm doing things for my partner it doesn't make me subservient or less than a person. Makes me more of a person, really, to be able to take care of and nurture someone. This part, I get.
But for me, saying either gender should be inherently responsible for certain roles in a relationship is just silly. What works for one couple may not work for another. To say women should always be relegated to certain roles, specifically household menial tasks, tasks that in wealthy households are performed by a maid or servant, is antiquated and frankly, ridiculous. Doesn't mean she can't do these things happily and cheerfully if that's what she wants. But to say she SHOULD do those things puts her in the subservient role. This is what I have a problem with. Feminism is about freedom and choice. I don't HAVE to do anything for my man, I choose to. And that makes all the difference.

Rhondab said:

I am so happy you didn't come on here blasting me and yelling and shit...and TOOK THE TIME TO READ!! (hint hint)

I appreciate your response!

Whap!