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Printablecharlottegelin said: AnotherLoverToo said: All in all, I think people should be kind, respectful and loving as much as possible in a relationship, regardless of gender or gender "roles". Then it works. Whatever arrangements a couple is great, as long as it's mutually beneficial. The feminist movement arose from lack of opportunity and choice and legal protection, not because we were so disliked our husbands and children.
But I also want to say that relying on your partner for total validation as a man or woman isn't a wise idea, either, imo. There are gonna be days when it's gonna be tough to "make" your man or woman feel good, and I"m not gonna be anybody's mama but my children's. My love for my man is unconditional and I'll do what it takes, but you all need to be grown men, too, and get off my tits!  maturity in a man is what makes him so HAWT   | |
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althom said: charlottegelin said: maturity in a man is what makes him so HAWT you have silly hair  | |
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I guess I have (or had) that kind of old-fashioned relationship in some ways.
My wife doesn't work and is basically a housewife, spending time cooking, cleaning, washing clothes etc. although this is hardly all she does. I suppose I may be the 'man of the house', but I don't really like this term. Part of my wife's role in the relationship may involve doing the menial tasks noted above, but this doesn't mean anything more than that she does these tasks, as I'll explain. At one time I was certainly making more of the decisions in the family, and my wife entrusted me with doing that. I pretty much determined what we'd do, when, and how. This wasn't me suppressing my wife, but rather her allowing me full responsibility for looking after us. This has slowly changed as I've sought more and more to share the responsibility. My wife is Thai and so the expectations of roles in a relationship are different and marked. I was happy to play the role of head of the family, but am far happier with her taking more and more responsibility in the relationship with regards to finances, decision-making and such (which she does now, with confidence). She still does those menial tasks mentioned earlier, which she would never see as a subjection. Being Buddhist, a task is a task and should be performed and completed without fuss, be it great or small, and this kind of economical, straightforward action is part of the culture here and of our spiritual beliefs. My wife does the housewife role, and looks after my body and my soul, and though she doesn't work that doesn't mean she's an old-fashioned housewife secondary to the husband. Who brings in the income is not the issue, but where the responsibility is divided up and whether both people are happy with their roles. There is satisfaction to be found in a job well done, whatever it is. Putting pride aside helps. I don't recognise any difference in making money and washing the dishes. | |
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Fauxie said: I guess I have (or had) that kind of old-fashioned relationship in some ways.
My wife doesn't work and is basically a housewife, spending time cooking, cleaning, washing clothes etc. although this is hardly all she does. I suppose I may be the 'man of the house', but I don't really like this term. Part of my wife's role in the relationship may involve doing the menial tasks noted above, but this doesn't mean anything more than that she does these tasks, as I'll explain. At one time I was certainly making more of the decisions in the family, and my wife entrusted me with doing that. I pretty much determined what we'd do, when, and how. This wasn't me suppressing my wife, but rather her allowing me full responsibility for looking after us. This has slowly changed as I've sought more and more to share the responsibility. My wife is Thai and so the expectations of roles in a relationship are different and marked. I was happy to play the role of head of the family, but am far happier with her taking more and more responsibility in the relationship with regards to finances, decision-making and such (which she does now, with confidence). She still does those menial tasks mentioned earlier, which she would never see as a subjection. Being Buddhist, a task is a task and should be performed and completed without fuss, be it great or small, and this kind of economical, straightforward action is part of the culture here and of our spiritual beliefs. My wife does the housewife role, and looks after my body and my soul, and though she doesn't work that doesn't mean she's an old-fashioned housewife secondary to the husband. Who brings in the income is not the issue, but where the responsibility is divided up and whether both people are happy with their roles. There is satisfaction to be found in a job well done, whatever it is. Putting pride aside helps. I don't recognise any difference in making money and washing the dishes. so what do you do now? | |
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nilegettolrahc said: Fauxie said: I guess I have (or had) that kind of old-fashioned relationship in some ways.
My wife doesn't work and is basically a housewife, spending time cooking, cleaning, washing clothes etc. although this is hardly all she does. I suppose I may be the 'man of the house', but I don't really like this term. Part of my wife's role in the relationship may involve doing the menial tasks noted above, but this doesn't mean anything more than that she does these tasks, as I'll explain. At one time I was certainly making more of the decisions in the family, and my wife entrusted me with doing that. I pretty much determined what we'd do, when, and how. This wasn't me suppressing my wife, but rather her allowing me full responsibility for looking after us. This has slowly changed as I've sought more and more to share the responsibility. My wife is Thai and so the expectations of roles in a relationship are different and marked. I was happy to play the role of head of the family, but am far happier with her taking more and more responsibility in the relationship with regards to finances, decision-making and such (which she does now, with confidence). She still does those menial tasks mentioned earlier, which she would never see as a subjection. Being Buddhist, a task is a task and should be performed and completed without fuss, be it great or small, and this kind of economical, straightforward action is part of the culture here and of our spiritual beliefs. My wife does the housewife role, and looks after my body and my soul, and though she doesn't work that doesn't mean she's an old-fashioned housewife secondary to the husband. Who brings in the income is not the issue, but where the responsibility is divided up and whether both people are happy with their roles. There is satisfaction to be found in a job well done, whatever it is. Putting pride aside helps. I don't recognise any difference in making money and washing the dishes. so what do you do now? Drink tea and read, mainly.  | |
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I just realised that my post isn't really on topic since you're talking about working women and their responsibilities at home.
Oh well.  | |
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Fauxie said: nilegettolrahc said: so what do you do now? Drink tea and read, mainly.  | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: All in all, I think people should be kind, respectful and loving as much as possible in a relationship, regardless of gender or gender "roles". Then it works. Whatever arrangements a couple makes for their family unit is great, as long as it's mutually beneficial. The feminist movement arose from lack of opportunity and choice and legal protection, not because we so disliked our husbands and children.
And I also want to say that relying on your partner for total validation as a man or woman isn't a wise idea, either, imo. It's important to have outside friends, family and activities as outlets. Studies have shown that women tend to have more friends and be able to deal with stuff because of the extra social support, whereas men tend to exclusively rely upon their female partner emotionally. There are gonna be days when it's gonna be tough to "make" your man or woman feel good, and I"m not gonna be anybody's mama but my children's. My love for my man is unconditional and I'll do what it takes, but you all need to be grown men, too, and get off my tits!
[Edited 5/11/05 18:59pm] Co-sign! | |
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Fauxie said: I just realised that my post isn't really on topic since you're talking about working women and their responsibilities at home.
Oh well. you mean specifically PAID work, it's not like your wife is ever idle | |
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nilegettolrahc said: Fauxie said: I just realised that my post isn't really on topic since you're talking about working women and their responsibilities at home.
Oh well. you mean specifically PAID work, it's not like your wife is ever idle Exactly! Whether you're paid for it or not, things have to be done. There's no heirachy for all the different tasks performed within a relationship. I struggle sometimes to talk about my situation, and fear that I come across as the domineering Western husband with a Thai wife. I just see it all as a partnership where you have to have everything covered and you work together as a team to make that happen. At some times you may do more, at others you may do less. All the matters is that you work as team and feel fulfilled and comfortable with your responsibilities. | |
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Fauxie said: nilegettolrahc said: you mean specifically PAID work, it's not like your wife is ever idle Exactly! Whether you're paid for it or not, things have to be done. There's no heirachy for all the different tasks performed within a relationship. I struggle sometimes to talk about my situation, and fear that I come across as the domineering Western husband with a Thai wife. I just see it all as a partnership where you have to have everything covered and you work together as a team to make that happen. At some times you may do more, at others you may do less. All the matters is that you work as team and feel fulfilled and comfortable with your responsibilities. So, you saw a gap in the tea drinking department and stepped in as needed | |
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nilegettolrahc said: Fauxie said: Exactly! Whether you're paid for it or not, things have to be done. There's no heirachy for all the different tasks performed within a relationship. I struggle sometimes to talk about my situation, and fear that I come across as the domineering Western husband with a Thai wife. I just see it all as a partnership where you have to have everything covered and you work together as a team to make that happen. At some times you may do more, at others you may do less. All the matters is that you work as team and feel fulfilled and comfortable with your responsibilities. So, you saw a gap in the tea drinking department and stepped in as needed Precisely! There aren't enough people who sit down and just enjoy a good cup of tea. It's a dying art. | |
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Fauxie said: nilegettolrahc said: So, you saw a gap in the tea drinking department and stepped in as needed Precisely! There aren't enough people who sit down and just enjoy a good cup of tea. It's a dying art. fauxie!!!! miss you!!!!   I'm feelin kind of n-a-s-t-y
I might just take you home with me | |
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Dex -I'm really not clear on what you mean when you say women need to "be a woman" for their men. Please elaborate. What should she be doing? I'm not at all comfortable with phrases like "be a woman/man" or references to "real" men or women or the "head of the house", because it implies that there is a specific role or set of behaviours that each gender has to follow to be acceptable and for a relationship to work out.
Also, don't you agree that men need to contribute to the relationship as well? A person should only give as much as they're given. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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BabyGirl said: Fauxie said: Precisely! There aren't enough people who sit down and just enjoy a good cup of tea. It's a dying art. fauxie!!!! miss you!!!! You too. We should chat sometime. | |
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meow85 said: Dex -I'm really not clear on what you mean when you say women need to "be a woman" for their men. Please elaborate. What should she be doing? I'm not at all comfortable with phrases like "be a woman/man" or references to "real" men or women or the "head of the house", because it implies that there is a specific role or set of behaviours that each gender has to follow to be acceptable and for a relationship to work out.
Also, don't you agree that men need to contribute to the relationship as well? A person should only give as much as they're given. I guess being a woman means to take care of her man physically. ie sexually, a great meal, an ironed shirt... and emotionally ie. understanding him, listening to him, showing interest in his thoughts and ideas, helping him fulfill his dreams... and also taking responsibility for the couple in decision making. A generalisation though, of course, and it all depends on the situation and the needs of the people involved, but that's what I'd go for. Mutatis mutandis for men. ... [Edited 5/11/05 20:08pm] | |
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retina said: charlottegelin said: Hej retina, I'm a swede (I don't live there either), but man that sounds freaky
Hej! 
Yep, it sure is freaky. As you know, Swedes can be quite arrogant in the sense that we always see ourselves as taking the moral high ground and are proud of that. That's why, when something is considered moral and PC, it gets completely absorbed by the Swedish society without people asking that many questions. Anyway, is Charlotte Gelin your real name? If so, you're the bravest person here on the org. What if Althom decides to stalk you? 
Do you speak Swedish or have you been gone for too long? Retina, you self-admittedly don't live in Sweden anymore. I do, and this feminist party you're talking about has hardly even made a ripple in the news here, after announcing its existence. The political poll that was made did NOT concern this actual political party, the question was "If there was a feminist party in Swedish politics today, would you CONSIDER voting for it?". You can hardly know the climate here today when you're not living in it anymore. You are making purely false statements when you say that people who wear short skirts or "visible makeup" are generally looked down upon, that isn't the case at all. Certain people will always look down on others, just like there are people who disapprive of short skirts or makeup there are people who look down upon using artificial materials in their clothes, or fur for that matter. There are people who look down on racists, and those who look down on immigrants. Saying that the sentiment about women who dress up and wear makeup is that they're pariahs is a lie. I am sorry if you have been exposed solely to feminist people who refuse to shave their armpits or comb their hair in the morning, but you should not make false statements. Jen, who STILL lives in Sweden and likes it.  | |
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retina said: AnotherLoverToo said: And out of curiousity, what was your username before retina, as you say you've read my opinions?  I'm not going to tell you. I've cleaned the slate since I was last here and I quite enjoy that thankyouverymuch.  I'm not a frequent account switcher though. I've only had one account before this one if you don't count my original name back in the old black and purple days.
I wouldn't necessarily assume Teacher would strongly disagree with your perception just because she's female. She's not one for popular opinion, imo.
I am curious because she's actually THERE to get a sense and feel of the current "vibe", whereas it sounds like you and charlotte are ex-patriates.We are, but I lived there until only two years ago so I'm still very much up to date. Besides, I stay in touch with people back home and regularly read the Swedish news. Anyway, you're right that it would be interesting to hear what teacher has to say. Bring it on. ALT is right, I live here and I'm not one to care for popular opinion. I've never felt poorly treated OR better treated because of my gender. That's crap, people who use that for excuses aren't competent enough to make the system work for them.  Discrimination in ALL its forms are very bad, there are ways to make the system work. Whiners begone! That was my 
Oh, I suppose I should say something for the actual topic. I kinda like the old fashined way of thinking, when the man should be the man of the house and the woman should make him feel as such. The real problem is that being "the man of the house" entails more than drinking beer and scratching your crotch in front of the football game on the weekend. If the men were more manly, I'm sure us women would appreciate it more. I know I would [Edited 5/12/05 4:58am] | |
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DexMSR said: CarrieLee said: All I have to say is that my man has no complaints with me! I know how to take care of him!
How do you do this.....please share. Well I can go on and on about the little things I do that he loves, but I think it's the constant blow jobs in the long run. | |
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CarrieLee said: DexMSR said: How do you do this.....please share. Well I can go on and on about the little things I do that he loves, but I think it's the constant blow jobs in the long run. 
AMEN !! | |
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Mach said: CarrieLee said: Well I can go on and on about the little things I do that he loves, but I think it's the constant blow jobs in the long run.
AMEN !!  The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
BOB JOHNSON IS PART OF THE PROBLEM!! | |
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DexMSR said: And in these countries...these women were glad to do the tasks for the entire household. They cooked, cleaned, and treated us like every man wishes he could be treated. They didn't seem unhappy, I didn't see any women platforming to burn bras and champion change there. They were all more than happy to do what they did. I had a date with one woman and she brought her family over to meet me, and her "Aunt" went into the kitchen immediately and cleaned it up and made drinks for everyone in my condo! They felt comfortable doing it for "some" reason right?
Right!? The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
BOB JOHNSON IS PART OF THE PROBLEM!! | |
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CarrieLee said: DexMSR said: How do you do this.....please share. Well I can go on and on about the little things I do that he loves, but I think it's the constant blow jobs in the long run. He loves you basically because you suck his dick a lot.  | |
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NoodleSoup said: CarrieLee said: Well I can go on and on about the little things I do that he loves, but I think it's the constant blow jobs in the long run. He loves you basically because you suck his dick a lot. Well, It sure can't hurt!! The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
BOB JOHNSON IS PART OF THE PROBLEM!! | |
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DexMSR said: NoodleSoup said: He loves you basically because you suck his dick a lot. Well, It sure can't hurt!! No, but hopefully as the cherry on the sundae, so to speak, and not as the basis for being with someone. Mind you...
 | |
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NoodleSoup said: CarrieLee said: Well I can go on and on about the little things I do that he loves, but I think it's the constant blow jobs in the long run. He loves you basically because you suck his dick a lot. Did I say that he loves me for that? No. I do plenty of things for him, he does plenty of things for me. We respect each other, trust each other and have fun with each other. And I keep him satisfied on a sexual level. Tell me one man that doesn't want that. | |
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DexMSR said: AnotherLoverToo said: Hey, Dex.
Can you give more specifics on what you feel American women are not doing, which they "should" be? You're speaking in generalities, as far as what women don't do to "stand firmly behind their men" and "keep your man". The women I know do most, if not all, of the emotional work in the relationship and well as most of the housework, childrearing and they even bring in some income. Perhaps they are spread too thin to cater exclusively to their men's needs? Again, can you be more specific about what American women aren't doing? What you touched on is exactly what I mean. Most women here don't do this anymore and I am not speaking for ALL women, some do understand how to nurture their man and make them feel like they are the man of the house. But "the man of the house" is a long lost, antiquated notion in Americana anymore. Call me old fashioned, but please understand that I am not attempting to objectify the womans role, but to help get back to understanding how men are thinking. Ummmm, Dex? That's all fine and shit, but I make ALL of the money in my household, and it's a substantial amount. My soon-to-be was laid off a few weeks ago. I told him that he could stay home if he did all of the things that someone who stays home does. He said "no prob:. He is my free child care to boot. Tradition is fine, but it's much better to have a man-bitch at home to take care of your every whim.....on your dime, of course.
Whap that. | |
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NoodleSoup said: DexMSR said: Well, It sure can't hurt!! No, but hopefully as the cherry on the sundae, so to speak, and not as the basis for being with someone. Mind you...
Of course it's not the basis of our relationship  WHAT HAPPENED TO PEOPLE'S SENSE OF HUMOR?? GAWD! | |
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gemini13 said: DexMSR said: What you touched on is exactly what I mean. Most women here don't do this anymore and I am not speaking for ALL women, some do understand how to nurture their man and make them feel like they are the man of the house. But "the man of the house" is a long lost, antiquated notion in Americana anymore. Call me old fashioned, but please understand that I am not attempting to objectify the womans role, but to help get back to understanding how men are thinking. Ummmm, Dex? That's all fine and shit, but I make ALL of the money in my household, and it's a substantial amount. My soon-to-be was laid off a few weeks ago. I told him that he could stay home if he did all of the things that someone who stays home does. He said "no prob:. He is my free child care to boot. Tradition is fine, but it's much better to have a man-bitch at home to take care of your every whim.....on your dime, of course.
Whap that. I was nowhere near implying that a woman's place is in the home....Please Read! And does he know you call him a Man-Bitch? Whap! The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
BOB JOHNSON IS PART OF THE PROBLEM!! | |
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DexMSR said: gemini13 said: Ummmm, Dex? That's all fine and shit, but I make ALL of the money in my household, and it's a substantial amount. My soon-to-be was laid off a few weeks ago. I told him that he could stay home if he did all of the things that someone who stays home does. He said "no prob:. He is my free child care to boot. Tradition is fine, but it's much better to have a man-bitch at home to take care of your every whim.....on your dime, of course.
Whap that. I was nowhere near implying that a woman's place is in the home....Please Read! And does he know you call him a Man-Bitch? Whap! HAHAHAHAHA I knew that would get you. I love him and he loves me. I just happen to pay for everything. I've been in a marriage where I had no power at all, I stayed home and did everything and wasn't appreciated for it. I call him my bitch kiddingly, and we laugh about it. We have a relationship that trancends traditional views. We have no problem switching "roles". | |
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