TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

there is no definitive answer to what a hit sounds like.

As i said you gotta consider different periods too. The song you posted was at a time the dirty south dumbed down rap songs was trending. It reminded me of the horrible "Laffy taffy" (thx for that )

but in many many cases radio choruses are very catchy (obviously)

did MJ the king of pop ever have any hit songs without a catchy chorus.

ANd yes some songs can be unfairly treated by the radio but do you really feel that's the case

with the music Prince has been putting out for the past 20 years??

As i said generally you know based off one listen if a song has potential.

A song like "Breakdown" for example won't become one because it's supposed to be one of those grower songs.

I haven't heard much of Prince's newer music, so I don't know that one. But wasn't most of Prince's records after Warner Brothers self released? So of cource they're not going to be hits unless he can pay to get the songs on the radio. Then Prince is over a certain age. Was Dean Martin and Mel Torme having hits in the 1980s? Why do you think that the really popular records were usually on majors. If Michael Jackson's Thriller album had came out on Malaco Records, it wouldn't have done anything. First of all the record probably would not have been made in the way it was in the first place. Malaco can't afford Quincy Jones or Paul McCartney. They don't have the money to make music videos either, so even if Thriller came out like it is, Malaco is not international in the same way CBS & Epic was. Malaco has existed since the 1960s, and their biggest selling album came out in 1996 and it only went platinum or 1 million. So catchy songs is not the only factor in a song becoming a hit.

JT doesn't think he's michael jackson, he thinks he's JT. Now, the problem is, he's got no originality so he tends to sound like an imitator. But to his credit, that is what he's sounded like for going on 20 years now, so I think that is who he is. I don't think he is just now jumping on some bandwagon. I think he has genuine appreciation for the music he is so blandly inspired by.

MickyDolenz said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

there is no definitive answer to what a hit sounds like.

As i said you gotta consider different periods too. The song you posted was at a time the dirty south dumbed down rap songs was trending. It reminded me of the horrible "Laffy taffy" (thx for that )

but in many many cases radio choruses are very catchy (obviously)

did MJ the king of pop ever have any hit songs without a catchy chorus.

ANd yes some songs can be unfairly treated by the radio but do you really feel that's the case

with the music Prince has been putting out for the past 20 years??

As i said generally you know based off one listen if a song has potential.

A song like "Breakdown" for example won't become one because it's supposed to be one of those grower songs.

I haven't heard much of Prince's newer music, so I don't know that one. But wasn't most of Prince's records after Warner Brothers self released? So of cource they're not going to be hits unless he can pay to get the songs on the radio. Then Prince is over a certain age. Was Dean Martin and Mel Torme having hits in the 1980s? Why do you think that the really popular records were usually on majors. If Michael Jackson's Thriller album had came out on Malaco Records, it wouldn't have done anything. First of all the record probably would not have been made in the way it was in the first place. Malaco can't afford Quincy Jones or Paul McCartney. They don't have the money to make music videos either, so even if Thriller came out like it is, Malaco is not international in the same way CBS & Epic was. Malaco has existed since the 1960s, and their biggest selling album came out in 1996 and it only went platinum or 1 million. So catchy songs is not the only factor in a song becoming a hit.

Rave Musicology and 3121 were released through major labels. Money can't turn anything into hits though It takes a song with potential. No music he's made for a while has enough potential to become one honestly.

[Edited 5/17/14 12:23pm]

Well, the 3121 album went to #1.

So...

novabrkr said:

Well, the 3121 album went to #1.

So...

Our discussion was about Prince being unable to have a hit single . He got a big enough loyal fan base that can get his albums number 1 for a week

[Edited 5/17/14 12:45pm]

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

Rave Musicology and 3121 were released through major labels. Money can't turn anything into hits though It takes a song with potential. No music he's made for a while has enough potential to become one honestly.

Some gospel groups and thrash metal acts are on major labels too, but they don't have hits. Jazz records come out on majors too. Jazz is generally not a singles genre. Kenny G albums sold a lot, but he didn't really have many radio hits. Prince's music is out of style anyway, and so is his image. How does Prince's style fit in with the saggin "pants on the ground" generation? I don't see how Prince fits next to Lil Wayne, Nicki Minaj, Taylor Swift, 2 Chainz, Enrique Iglesias, Lady Antebellum, Rihanna, Iggy Azalea, etc. These are 2 really popular songs, but if Prince had released them instead, they'd be obscure, even if they were the same exact musical track with his vocals.

MickyDolenz said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

Rave Musicology and 3121 were released through major labels. Money can't turn anything into hits though It takes a song with potential. No music he's made for a while has enough potential to become one honestly.

Some gospel groups and thrash metal acts are on major labels too, but they don't have hits. Jazz records come out on majors too. Jazz is generally not a singles genre. Kenny G albums sold a lot, but he didn't really have many radio hits. Prince's music is out of style anyway, and so is his image. How does Prince's style fit in with the saggin "pants on the ground" generation? I don't see how Prince fits next to Lil Wayne, Nicki Minaj, Taylor Swift, 2 Chainz, Enrique Iglesias, Lady Antebellum, Rihanna, Iggy Azalea, etc. These are 2 really popular songs, but if Prince had released them instead, they'd be obscure, even if they were the same exact musical track with his vocals.

IF Lady Gaga or 2 robots can fit in this generation i don't see why Prince couldn't . The image isn't really the issue here imo

[Edited 5/17/14 13:19pm]

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

novabrkr said:

Well, the 3121 album went to #1.

So...

Our discussion was about Prince being unable to have a hit single . He got a big enough loyal fan base that can get his albums number 1 for a week

[Edited 5/17/14 12:45pm]

Yeah, I know. Your comment just relied on the albums themselves being released on major labels, so I felt like pointing that out in any case.

One thing you could take into consideration with what you've argued here for is that Prince has been very critical of how the music industry works. He started doing that when he was still having hits, for that matter. With that in mind, it shouldn't be too far fetched to suggest that at least some radio stations and video channels weren't interested in giving him the push his stuff at least sometimes would have deserved.

From what I can tell, it seems like there needs to be another thread that says "Does JT think he's Prince"? My answer is yes. I think JT rips off Michael more but he does try to imitate Prince as well.

novabrkr said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

Our discussion was about Prince being unable to have a hit single . He got a big enough loyal fan base that can get his albums number 1 for a week

[Edited 5/17/14 12:45pm]

Yeah, I know. Your comment just relied on the albums themselves being released on major labels, so I felt like pointing that out in any case.

One thing you could take into consideration with what you've argued here for is that Prince has been very critical of how the music industry works. He started doing that when he was still having hits, for that matter. With that in mind, it shouldn't be too far fetched to suggest that at least some radio stations and video channels weren't interested in giving him the push his stuff at least sometimes would have deserved.

I think it has more to do with his music than anything else personally. He lost the sense of what a hit song sounds like and maybe that's because he hasn't kept up with times.

Putting out a song like "Rock N roll affair" out on the radio kinda reveals that to me.

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

IF Lady Gaga or 2 robots can fit in this generation i don't see why Prince couldn't . The image isn't really the issue here imo

They're not guys wearing makeup and feminine clothes. Prince would be considered "gay", and that is not "cool" with some people. This is not the 1970's & 1980s when guys with makeup was more accepted by the mainstream. I have younger relatives and some often use terms like "no homo" or saying something bad or "cheesy" is "that's gay". In rap, maybe OutKast gets away with a non-standard "thug" or "bling" look, but they're an exception. If The Cure, Duran Duran, Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5, David Bowie, or Motley Crue were starting out today, their early looks would not be cool with the average mainstream young person, who Top 40 is marketed to. Boy George would definitely not fly. Image does have something to do with popularity. If the Beatles had the standard buzz cuts of their time, would they have hit as big.

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

novabrkr said:

Yeah, I know. Your comment just relied on the albums themselves being released on major labels, so I felt like pointing that out in any case.

One thing you could take into consideration with what you've argued here for is that Prince has been very critical of how the music industry works. He started doing that when he was still having hits, for that matter. With that in mind, it shouldn't be too far fetched to suggest that at least some radio stations and video channels weren't interested in giving him the push his stuff at least sometimes would have deserved.

I think it has more to do with his music than anything else personally. He lost the sense of what a hit song sounds like and maybe that's because he hasn't kept up with times.

Putting out a song like "Rock N roll affair" out on the radio kinda reveals that to me.

Hah. I can't really criticize you for what you've stated on RNR Love Affair. I don't really hate too many songs by him, but that one I can admit I do.

Really, the biggest reason why I think he hasn't had hits in ages is because I think the radio and the video channels try to make sure the stuff that gets played a lot is connected with the lifestyles and ideals of teenagers and twenty-somethings. Prince doesn't really fit in the big picture like, for example, Rihanna and Eminem do.

I agree with you in the sense that his compositions from the previous 15-20 years haven't had obvious hit potential, but we all know at least something from his catalog could have gotten through under different conditions. Do any of the artists favoured by teenagers today criticize the consumerist mindset? Not, really.

MickyDolenz said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

IF Lady Gaga or 2 robots can fit in this generation i don't see why Prince couldn't . The image isn't really the issue here imo

They're not guys wearing makeup and feminine clothes. Prince would be considered "gay", and that is not "cool" with some people. This is not the 1970's & 1980s when guys with makeup was more accepted by the mainstream. I have younger relatives and some often use terms like "no homo" or saying something bad or "cheesy" is "that's gay". In rap, maybe OutKast gets away with a non-standard "thug" or "bling" look, but they're an exception. If The Cure, Duran Duran, Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5, David Bowie, or Motley Crue were starting out today, their early looks would not be cool with the average mainstream young person, who Top 40 is marketed to. Boy George would definitely not fly. Image does have something to do with popularity. If the Beatles had the standard buzz cuts of their time, would they have hit as big.

Miguel who tries to copy Prince's image and singing got a hit with "Adorn".

I get what your mean but if Prince was making singles that deserved more radio play then we could have this discussion but is that really the case? .

novabrkr said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

I think it has more to do with his music than anything else personally. He lost the sense of what a hit song sounds like and maybe that's because he hasn't kept up with times.

Putting out a song like "Rock N roll affair" out on the radio kinda reveals that to me.

Hah. I can't really criticize you for what you've stated on RNR Love Affair. I don't really hate too many songs by him, but that one I can admit I do.

Really, the biggest reason why I think he hasn't had hits in ages is because I think the radio and the video channels try to make sure the stuff that gets played a lot is connected with the lifestyles and ideals of teenagers and twenty-somethings. Prince doesn't really fit in the big picture like, for example, Rihanna and Eminem do.

I agree with you in the sense that his compositions from the previous 15-20 years haven't had obvious hit potential, but we all know at least something from his catalog could have gotten through under different conditions. Do any of the artists favoured by teenagers today criticize the consumerist mindset? Not, really.

that's a good point. Justin Timberlake is advantaged in that regard because he's younger and more hip to the younger generation which makes it easier to come up with something that connects with a wider audience

Prince seems to want to change the way people think and hear music instead of delivering something they want and expects radios to eat it all up. That's probably what he meant with the line "Instead of giving them what they want they can get what they need"

That makes things a bit more complicated for him

anyways this post shouldn't be about Prince anymore let's give MJ his place back

[Edited 5/17/14 14:15pm]

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

Miguel who tries to copy Prince's image and singing got a hit with "Adorn".

I get what your mean but if Prince was making singles that deserved more radio play then we could have this discussion but is that really the case? .

What does "deserved" mean? So you're saying if Prince put out Laffy Taffy, Pretty Boy Swag, We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together, and What The Fox Said then he would have deserved radio play? Radio play has more to do with promotion & money and also what style of music is popular in general at any particular time, than with the songs themselves and that's how it always worked. Berry Gordy didn't like I Heard It Through The Grapevine and What's Going On by Marvin Gaye and refused to release them at first, and Berry's goal was to have crossover hits. Grapevine wound up being on of the most successful singles in Motown's history. It's the same with movies, a blockbuster type of movie gets way more promotion and are shown in more theaters than an "art film". Prince is still too old to get a lot of radio airplay today, at least in the US. I don't know about elsewhere. Even during his heyday in the 1980s, many Prince songs did not get the same amount of airplay as Journey, Phil Collins, or Madonna and his ratio for hits was not as consistent. At best, Prince could do like Tony Bennett & Carlos Santana and release a duet album with some young popular acts of today, but todays generation is more likely to download for free than to purchase a CD album or a single. Tony didn't really have any hit singles, but his album was popular.

MickyDolenz said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

Miguel who tries to copy Prince's image and singing got a hit with "Adorn".

I get what your mean but if Prince was making singles that deserved more radio play then we could have this discussion but is that really the case? .

What does "deserved" mean? So you're saying if Prince put out Laffy Taffy, Pretty Boy Swag, We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together, and What The Fox Said then he would have deserved radio play? Radio play has more to do with promotion & money and also what style of music is popular in general at any particular time, than with the songs themselves and that's how it always worked. Berry Gordy didn't like I Heard It Through The Grapevine and What's Going On by Marvin Gaye and refused to release them at first, and Berry's goal was to have crossover hits. Grapevine wound up being on of the most successful singles in Motown's history. It's the same with movies, a blockbuster type of movie gets way more promotion and are shown in more theaters than an "art film". Prince is still too old to get a lot of radio airplay today, at least in the US. I don't know about elsewhere. Even during his heyday in the 1980s, many Prince songs did not get the same amount of airplay as Journey, Phil Collins, or Madonna and his ratio for hits was not as consistent. At best, Prince could do like Tony Bennett & Carlos Santana and release a duet album with some young popular acts of today, but todays generation is more likely to download for free than to purchase a CD album or a single. Tony didn't really have any hit singles, but his album was popular.

BY that i meant songs that really have potential to become hits. Did Prince make a song that could've been a hit to the point where we need to discuss that his looks had a negative impact on his lack of success on the single charts? I personally don't believe so

[Edited 5/17/14 14:51pm]

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

BY that i meant songs that really have potential to become hits. Did Prince make a song that could've been a hit to the point where we need to discuss that his looks had a negative impact on his lack of success on the single charts?

Does a song consisting entirely of whispering have potential to become a hit? It did. Hits can't always be predicted, at least not on Top 40. With adult contemporary stations, the style never really changes much. Whitney Houston/Barbara Striesand/Celine Dion type ballads pretty much stay in favor, if not the individual singers themselves.

.

If you think today's average hip hop, R&B, or country music fan can relate to how Prince looks, you must not be around them much. If 50 Cent, Trey Songs, or Pitbull went around dressing like Prince and wearing a lot of makeup and hairdos, they would have never gotten off the ground and they'd be laughed at. They could release the exact same records, and they would have not became hits. Their music would be irrelevant to their image. That's why Dr. Dre gets made fun of how he looked during his World Class Wreckin' Cru days.

[Edited 5/17/14 15:31pm]

MickyDolenz said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

BY that i meant songs that really have potential to become hits. Did Prince make a song that could've been a hit to the point where we need to discuss that his looks had a negative impact on his lack of success on the single charts?

Does a song consisting entirely of whispering have potential to become a hit? It did. Hits can't always be predicted, at least not on Top 40. With adult contemporary stations, the style never really changes much. Whitney Houston/Barbara Striesand/Celine Dion type ballads pretty much stay in favor, if not the individual singers themselves.

.

If you think today's average hip hop, R&B, or country music fan can relate to how Prince looks, you must not be around them much. If 50 Cent, Trey Songs, or Pitbull went around dressing like Prince and wearing a lot of makeup and hairdos, they would have never gotten off the ground and they'd be laughed at. They could release the exact same records, and they would have not became hits. Their music would be irrelevant to their image.

Yes because at that time it's the kind of song (dirty south club song) that radio at that time would eat up. It's no surprise that a song like that ended up being a hit

the average rnb and hiphop fan can enjoy Miguel who tries to look and sing like Prince so why wouldn't they accept the way Prince looks

Hell, Frank Ocean is openly gay and he's one of the biggest rnb acts of the moment

Even MJ who was very soft spoken people could've seen him as gay because of that and the children allegations yet everyone still connected with his music

If Prince made an UNDENIABLE pop hit i doubt his image would avoid it from reaching success.

and it's Prince we're talking about..

he's a legend and a considered by most to be cool and badass and wtv. It's not like

he's at the start of his career trying to overcome these obstacles to get a hit

[Edited 5/17/14 16:05pm]

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

Yes because at that time it's the kind of song (dirty south club song) that radios would eat up. It's no surprise that a song like that ended up being a hit

the average rnb fan can enjoy Miguel who tries to look and sing like Prince so why wouldn't they accept the way Prince looks:lol:

MJ was very soft spoken and many people could've seen him as gay because of that and the children allegations

but they still connected with his music

If Prince made an UNDENIABLE pop hit i doubt his image would avoid it from reaching success.

and it's Prince we're talking about.. he's a legend and a considered by most to be cool and badass and wtv

how can his image with this status possibly hurt him

[Edited 5/17/14 15:32pm]

But Michael hasn't had a big hit since You Are Not Alone and most of his hits were in the 1970s & 1980s (including J5/Jacksons). Even Invincible came out in 2001, which is not recent. Butterflies was popular on R&B stations, but I don't think it was actually released as a single. Many people are "legends". When was the last time Duran Duran, Willie Nelson, Bon Jovi, The Eagles, Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Dolly Parton, Johnny Mathis, Eric Clapton, etc. had a hit song and they pretty much all have a "ordinary" look, except maybe Dolly.

.

Top 40 has always pretty much been about what was popular to teens and young adults. In general, they don't list to their parents and definitely not their grandparents music. Prince's highest mainstream popularity was the mid-1980s which was around 30 years ago. If you go to the 1980s, who was popular 30 years before that in the 1950's? Here's a Billboard chart from July 1954. Were any of these performers still getting played on the radio in the 1980s, other than on oldies stations or easy listening stations? Easy listening was pretty much oldies itself, but not rock 'n roll oldies.

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

CynicKill said:

>

Yeah you did just say that!

dosen't sound like you agree with me

so you don't believe that being able to write hit songs is a talent?

even Prince who is clearly more talented than he is can't come up with one anymore.. that's what i meant.

[Edited 5/17/14 2:56am]

>

I won't argue that Prince doesn't have the focus or normalcy to put out straight-ahead catchy material but he never did. Remember this is a man who looked at "Thriller", said "I want a big album too" and came up with "Purple Rain"! He never seemed good at selecting follow-up singles in his heydey. He was never adept at making videos, or just hiring the latest and greatest to do the task for him. He put out material too quickly, and instead of using the record biz for what it's best for (Publicity, which Madonna learned all too well), he bucked the system in the issue of fairness of all things. What I take issue with with your statement is that you compare a man over 50, who's heavily associated with the 80's, to a guy who is so CURRENT to this generation that he's practically born yesterday. Prince has been there done that so many times it ain't even funny. Timberlake is young, current, has the energy and drive of said youth and the fresh ego to care about such matters. Suffice it to say if Prince were younger he'd have hits. Prince trying to have a hit today is Prince hardly trying. Just look for the promotion for "The Breakdown". I'll wait.

Is it Justin that has the talent or is it his producers?

MickyDolenz said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

Yes because at that time it's the kind of song (dirty south club song) that radios would eat up. It's no surprise that a song like that ended up being a hit

the average rnb fan can enjoy Miguel who tries to look and sing like Prince so why wouldn't they accept the way Prince looks:lol:

MJ was very soft spoken and many people could've seen him as gay because of that and the children allegations

but they still connected with his music

If Prince made an UNDENIABLE pop hit i doubt his image would avoid it from reaching success.

and it's Prince we're talking about.. he's a legend and a considered by most to be cool and badass and wtv

how can his image with this status possibly hurt him

[Edited 5/17/14 15:32pm]

But Michael hasn't had a big hit since You Are Not Alone and most of his hits were in the 1970s & 1980s (including J5/Jacksons). Even Invincible came out in 2001, which is not recent. Butterflies was popular on R&B stations, but I don't think it was actually released as a single. Many people are "legends". When was the last time Duran Duran, Willie Nelson, Bon Jovi, The Eagles, Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Dolly Parton, Johnny Mathis, Eric Clapton, etc. had a hit song and they pretty much all have a "ordinary" look, except maybe Dolly.

.

Top 40 has always pretty much been about what was popular to teens and young adults. In general, they don't list to their parents and definitely not their grandparents music. Prince's highest mainstream popularity was the mid-1980s which was around 30 years ago. If you go to the 1980s, who was popular 30 years before that in the 1950's? Here's a Billboard chart from July 1954. Were any of these performers still getting played on the radio in the 1980s, other than on oldies stations or easy listening stations? Easy listening was pretty much oldies itself, but not rock 'n roll oldies.

Your response dosen't seem to have anything to do with mine

if young people today are so reluctant to listen to artists who look gay. why is Frank ocean who is openly one of the biggest acts in rnb world?

And Andre 3000 is a great example of someone who's sexuality has been questioned and is still to this day one of the most respected hiphop acts.

and Prince is not at the start of his career where his image could cause him enough issues to have a hit.

I mentioned that he's a legend and that he's considered cool to make a point that his image

ain't really an issue for him at this point

[Edited 5/20/14 16:46pm]

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

MickyDolenz said:

But Michael hasn't had a big hit since You Are Not Alone and most of his hits were in the 1970s & 1980s (including J5/Jacksons). Even Invincible came out in 2001, which is not recent. Butterflies was popular on R&B stations, but I don't think it was actually released as a single. Many people are "legends". When was the last time Duran Duran, Willie Nelson, Bon Jovi, The Eagles, Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Dolly Parton, Johnny Mathis, Eric Clapton, etc. had a hit song and they pretty much all have a "ordinary" look, except maybe Dolly.

.

Top 40 has always pretty much been about what was popular to teens and young adults. In general, they don't list to their parents and definitely not their grandparents music. Prince's highest mainstream popularity was the mid-1980s which was around 30 years ago. If you go to the 1980s, who was popular 30 years before that in the 1950's? Here's a Billboard chart from July 1954. Were any of these performers still getting played on the radio in the 1980s, other than on oldies stations or easy listening stations? Easy listening was pretty much oldies itself, but not rock 'n roll oldies.

Your response dosen't seem to have anything to do with mine

if young people today are so reluctant to listen to artists who look gay. why is Frank ocean who is openly one of the biggest acts in rnb world?

And Andre 3000 is a great example of someone who's sexuality has been questioned and is still to this day one of the most respected hiphop acts.

If Prince is not at the start of his career where his image could cause him issues to have a hit.

I mentioned that he's a legend and that he's considered cool to make a point that his image

ain't really an issue fo him at this point

[Edited 5/17/14 16:59pm]

What about the group KISS? They don't seem to have any copycats and they also seem relevant to another generation as well. I think stuff like this boils down to management and common sense. Some artists know the art of taking a rest from being in the public spotlight so that nobody gets tired of looking at you. Even Michael took a break between Thriller and Bad, and of course Dangerous. I think that's the difference. JT always seems to pop up at the BET awards, Image awards, etc. even when he doesn't have any new material out. What's the point of him doing this? Is he trying to get a black audience that will extend how long he's going to be "relevant" in the long run?

CynicKill said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

dosen't sound like you agree with me

so you don't believe that being able to write hit songs is a talent?

even Prince who is clearly more talented than he is can't come up with one anymore.. that's what i meant.

[Edited 5/17/14 2:56am]

>

I won't argue that Prince doesn't have the focus or normalcy to put out straight-ahead catchy material but he never did. Remember this is a man who looked at "Thriller", said "I want a big album too" and came up with "Purple Rain"! He never seemed good at selecting follow-up singles in his heydey. He was never adept at making videos, or just hiring the latest and greatest to do the task for him. He put out material too quickly, and instead of using the record biz for what it's best for (Publicity, which Madonna learned all too well), he bucked the system in the issue of fairness of all things. What I take issue with with your statement is that you compare a man over 50, who's heavily associated with the 80's, to a guy who is so CURRENT to this generation that he's practically born yesterday. Prince has been there done that so many times it ain't even funny. Timberlake is young, current, has the energy and drive of said youth and the fresh ego to care about such matters. Suffice it to say if Prince were younger he'd have hits. Prince trying to have a hit today is Prince hardly trying. Just look for the promotion for "The Breakdown". I'll wait.

you brought up some good points

[Edited 5/17/14 18:12pm]

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

Your response dosen't seem to have anything to do with mine

if young people today are so reluctant to listen to artists who look gay. why is Frank ocean who is openly one of the biggest acts in rnb world?

And Andre 3000 is a great example of someone who's sexuality has been questioned and is still to this day one of the most respected hiphop acts.

If Prince is not at the start of his career where his image could cause him issues to have a hit.

I mentioned that he's a legend and that he's considered cool to make a point that his image

ain't really an issue fo him at this point

If it's not a big deal, why all the fuss about football and basketball players being homosexual? Also, I'm pretty sure if you go look at Wham! & George Michael videos on Youtube, there are comments about George's sexuality. You don't see that on a Bruce Springsteen video. Also didn't Tevin Campbell's career die when he got pretty much in the same situation as George Michael. Even if Prince looked like George Benson, he is still over a certain age, so that counts against the likelyhood of him getting a hit today. Which is why I posted the 1954 chart. I posted a youtube count of newer songs by veteran acts in a thread about The Time. I'll repost it here. If you compare those views with the views of Rihanna or Beyonce, most are pretty small.

[Edited 5/17/14 17:51pm]

Original 7ven: Trendin' ~ 145,519

Van Halen: Tattoo ~ 6,267,368

Van Halen: She's The Woman ~ 1,357,470

Sade: Babyfather ~ 2,145,856

Sade: Soldier Of Love ~ 14,341,258
Weird Al: Stop Forwarding That Crap To Me ~ 1,277,916

Sting: The Last Ship ~ 209,863

Ricky Martin: Vida ~ 9,274,434

Rod Stewart: Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow! ~ 481,054

Red Hot Chili Peppers: Brendan's Death Song ~ 6,224,578

Black Sabbath: God Is Dead? ~ 9,303,081

Earth, Wind & Fire: Guiding Lights ~ 26,357

The Brand New Heavies: Sunlight ~ 197,984

Charlie Wilson: My Love Is All I Have ~ 2,760,765

Ronald Isley ft. Kem: My Favorite Thing ~ 701,665

The Delfonics: Stop and Look (And You Have Found Love) ~ 30,561

Lou Reed & Metallica: The View ~ 2,856,541

George Strait: Here For A Good Time ~ 2,252,358

LL Cool J ft. Joe: Take It ~ 1,894,398

El DeBarge ft. Faith Evans: Lay With You ~ 2,048,844

Eric Benet: Real Love ~ 888,047

Paul McCartney: Queenie Eye ~ 4,133,479

Paul McCartney: New ~ 3,199,534

Ringo Starr: Wings ~ 202,102

The Beatles: Words Of Love ~ 2,418,229

Depeche Mode: Heaven ~ 13,414,831

Depeche Mode: Soothe My Soul ~ 4,054,018

ZZ Top: I Gotsta Get Paid ~ 5,611,668

Gloria Estefan: Wepa ~ 6,379,519

Sananda Maitreya: Kangaroo ~ 9,529

Donald Fagen: I'm Not The Same Without You ~ 238,841

Michael Jackson: Love Never Felt So Good ~ 17,294,030 (duet)/ 1,720,111 (solo)

The Cars: Sad Song ~ 264,062

Prince: Breakfast Can Wait ~ 2,850,767

George Benson: Unforgettable ~ 46,817

Duran Duran: Girl Panic! ~ 7,169,214

George Michael: Let Her Down Easy ~ 1,035,658

Karyn White: Unbreakable ~ 36,357

Chaka Khan: Angel ~ 1,349,384

Madonna: Turn Up The Radio ~ 7,931,633

Tears For Fears: My Girls ~ 138,014

Ratt: Eat Me Up Alive ~ 268,520

Lionel Richie ft. Shania Twain: Endless Love ~ 8,044,225

Elton John: Home Again ~ 1,699,007

Beastie Boys: Make Some Noise ~ 8,142,051

Toni Braxton & Babyface: Hurt You ~ 3,461,780

Heart: Fanatic ~ 121,052

New Kids On The Block: Remix ~ 3,396,730

Eddie Murphy ft. Snoop Lion: Red Light ~ 4,749,451

Shaggy ft. Ne-Yo: You Girl ~ 2,823,021

Rush: The Wreckers ~ 434,501

Wilson Phillips: Good Vibrations ~ 215,792

Color Me Badd: Skywalkin' ~ 2,835

David Bowie: The Stars ~ 6,375,809

The Lonely Island feat. Michael Bolton: Jack Sparrow ~ 124,459,191
Kris Kross: So So Def 20th Anniversary ~ 654,614

Mariah Carey ft. Trey Songz: You're Mine (Eternal) ~ 2,369,427

[Edited 5/18/14 8:24am]

MickyDolenz said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

Your response dosen't seem to have anything to do with mine

if young people today are so reluctant to listen to artists who look gay. why is Frank ocean who is openly one of the biggest acts in rnb world?

And Andre 3000 is a great example of someone who's sexuality has been questioned and is still to this day one of the most respected hiphop acts.

If Prince is not at the start of his career where his image could cause him issues to have a hit.

I mentioned that he's a legend and that he's considered cool to make a point that his image

ain't really an issue fo him at this point

If it's not a big deal, why all the fuss about football and basketball players being homosexual? Also, I'm pretty sure if you go look at Wham! & George Michael videos on Youtube, there are comments about George's sexuality. You don't see that on a Bruce Springsteen video. Even if Prince looked like George Benson, he is still over a certain age, so that counts against the likelyhood of him getting a hit today. Which is why I posted the 1954 chart. I posted a youtube count of newer songs by veteran acts in a thread about The Time. I'll repost it here. If you compare those views with the views of Rihanna or Beyonce, most are pretty small.

I agree that the younger generation checking more for younger artists makes it harder for older acts to get hits. But for the gay image thing, I gave examples of popular acts who look gay or are gay that many people enjoy listening to. we can agree to disagree on that

[Edited 5/17/14 18:21pm]

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

I agree with the younger generation checking more for younger artists which makes it harder for older acts to get hits. But the gay image thing. I provided a few examples of popular acts who look gay and are gay

so we can agree to disagree on that

I don't know who Frank Ocean is, but I just looked him up in Billboard, and it looks like he only had one single hit the Top 10 (#3) in R&B/hip hop airplay and it hit #32 on the Top 100 pop chart. Another 2 singles hit #17 and #70 R&B/hip hop airplay, and one hit #70 Top 100 pop. That doesn't sound like a big deal to me. Still what about Tevin Campbell? How many popular R&B singers over the years have been openly gay? There's some that's been rumored about like Luther Vandross. I don't recall any hip hop stars claiming that. Louis Farrakhan said in the 1980s that Michael & Prince were bad role models for young black males because of their "sissified" looks and image. But in Mike's later years Farrakhan seemed to be friends with Mike and defended him.

[Edited 5/17/14 18:38pm]

This thread is about Justin Timberlake and MJ. If you wanna change the subject, please do it on another thread!

MickyDolenz said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

there is no definitive answer to what a hit sounds like.

As i said you gotta consider different periods too. The song you posted was at a time the dirty south dumbed down rap songs was trending. It reminded me of the horrible "Laffy taffy" (thx for that )

but in many many cases radio choruses are very catchy (obviously)

did MJ the king of pop ever have any hit songs without a catchy chorus.

ANd yes some songs can be unfairly treated by the radio but do you really feel that's the case

with the music Prince has been putting out for the past 20 years??

As i said generally you know based off one listen if a song has potential.

A song like "Breakdown" for example won't become one because it's supposed to be one of those grower songs.

I haven't heard much of Prince's newer music, so I don't know that one. But wasn't most of Prince's records after Warner Brothers self released? So of cource they're not going to be hits unless he can pay to get the songs on the radio. Then Prince is over a certain age. Was Dean Martin and Mel Torme having hits in the 1980s? Why do you think that the really popular records were usually on majors. If Michael Jackson's Thriller album had came out on Malaco Records, it wouldn't have done anything. First of all the record probably would not have been made in the way it was in the first place. Malaco can't afford Quincy Jones or Paul McCartney. They don't have the money to make music videos either, so even if Thriller came out like it is, Malaco is not international in the same way CBS & Epic was. Malaco has existed since the 1960s, and their biggest selling album came out in 1996 and it only went platinum or 1 million. So catchy songs is not the only factor in a song becoming a hit.

Macklemoore two #1 singles and #2 album not on a major label.