...and as far as 'white privledge' goes, yeah JT definitely benefits from it...but it's a system that he didn't create and goes way beyond him, so I can't bring myself to be bitter at him about it.

MotownSubdivision said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

Hes better at being influenced by MJ and being a pop star imo.

Bruno Mars can't even dance that well and he lacks charisma.

[Edited 5/15/14 11:13am]

. People also say he has no soul in his voice and I disagree with that, he doesn't have as much as JT but it's there deep down;

Who fucking said that?
Bruno Mars is like Sam Cooke of today's generation and I'm talking seriously (In terms of being soulful at singing)

The soul in JT's singing is FAKE cuz he can't even hit the right notes We all know JT is a medicore singer at best... On the other hand, Bruno can belt & make it sound like a 60's mowtown show with real talent & amazing vocals.

[Edited 5/15/14 13:10pm]

Artesian said:

...and as far as 'white privledge' goes, yeah JT definitely benefits from it...but it's a system that he didn't create and goes way beyond him, so I can't bring myself to be bitter at him about it.

>

True it is what it is.

>

As to the immediate subject at hand...

>

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Wait, JT is better than Bruno Mars? Since when

Hes better at being influenced by MJ and being a pop star imo.

Bruno Mars can't even dance that well and he lacks charisma.

[Edited 5/15/14 11:13am]

A better pop star? Since when we're comparing the pop status of artists? Does "being a good pop star" have to do with anything artistic? D Angelo has in his finger the talent JT can ever dream of having, and yeah, D is no mainstream pop star and has no fregrance or little screaming fan gurls...

We ain't turning this into an JT vs Bruno because we know Bruno is still young & fresh and has a lot to put on in the next years, I still can't take JT things seriously, he released 3 studio albums (the last one doesn't count right? I think it's a bad way to have money) and that's nothing serious in the game, look how many albums Prince, Stevie Wonder and such released? look at the work of David Bowie... so 3 albums by JT and he's ass kissed in here and there like he's some sort of a musican genius? I thought we all agreed that Prince is the best artist of the 80's because he has released the most albums with the most good music (8 albums)... (Back in the MJ VS PRINCE ARTIST OF THE 80's debate)....

Bruno Mars is a corny dork. I hate that whole urban-lite, post-modern Chris Isaak-esque 'hipster' shtick of his. He's like a Gen-Y version of Jon Cryer in Pretty In Pink with a guitar.

[Edited 5/15/14 13:13pm]

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Wait, JT is better than Bruno Mars? Since when

Hes better at being influenced by MJ and being a pop star imo.

Bruno Mars can't even dance that well and he lacks charisma.

[Edited 5/15/14 11:13am]

You can't possibly be serious about Bruno can't dance. Can you post a video of him dancing terribly?

SeventeenDayze said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

Hes better at being influenced by MJ and being a pop star imo.

Bruno Mars can't even dance that well and he lacks charisma.

[Edited 5/15/14 11:13am]

You can't possibly be serious about Bruno can't dance. Can you post a video of him dancing terribly?

Wonder what sort of rocks he's been living under?

Artesian said:

Bruno Mars is a corny dork. I hate that whole urban-lite, post-modern Chris Isaak-esque 'hipster' shtick of his. He's like a Gen-Y version of Jon Cryer in Pretty In Pink with a guitar.

[Edited 5/15/14 13:13pm]

That's because you never dug into him to find out how good he is. I agree, somehow, I hate it that his image looks way to different from what he is... But we gotta say that in these days you gotta hold a guitar, wear a hat and sing corny pop songs to have people buying your albums and expand your fanbase... Ain't that what The Beatles were in the early 60s?

Artisitically we really are doing a disservice to D'Angelo by putting him in the same sentence as Justin and Bruno. But he does have his share of problems. He's complicated. He's non-productive and on his best day will never be a better "star" then Justin. Justin is a charmer and everybody likes him. This might be a case of when white privilege kicks in. If a black artist tried that he'd be labeled a fake and phony.

novabrkr said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Why is it so difficult for people to admit when a white artist imitates a black sound? Remember the term, "blue eyed soul"? From daye one of his solo career, JT has gone out of his way to imitate that same sound. I find it strange that from what I can tell, he has no other affiliation with any black friends, etc. unless it's time to work on an album. He only seems to deal with blacks when it's time to make music, then he's away again. There are a lot of people that don't imitate Michael.

Maybe they're doing it because, you know, they like the sound?

Yeah, sure, I can understand why you would use the expression "imitate", but the case with many white Americans and Europeans is that we have grown up listening to black music and there's not necessarily any sort of "imitating" or "copying" involved in it. We're just playing and performing the type of music that we like the most. I know JT himself has tried to mimic the styles of MJ and even Prince, but that's probably he just loves the music by those guys so much. I won't go as far as defending JT all the way though, because when the influences are clearly audible he comes off to me as somewhat fake, maybe even naive. I don't like that "Take Back The Night" song, for example.

I've listened to black music since I was a toddler and have pretty much always preferred it over white music, so if I'm going to sit at a piano the chances are what I'm going to play is going to be some type of black music. What's so odd about that exactly?

Can someone please explain how black artists couldn't get their music on the radio and had their songs watered down by white artists? See Pat Boone and Little Richard, for example

MickyDolenz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I don't hate JT but it seems a bit phony that JT is going to do all these so-called Michael Jackson tributes and then he runs back to the suburbs or whatever.

It's not like The Jacksons hung out in Gary, Indiana that much after leaving. Didn't Michael hang out with old Hollywood actors & singers like Gregory Peck, Liz Taylor, Jane Fonda, Katherine Hepburn, Marlon Brando, Liza Minelli, etc. What's "hood" about them?

Are you suggesting that white artists have been ripped off by black artists, including the Jackson 5????

I never understand why people put down one performer to prop up another one. It's not that serious. It's music, it's all good.

Bruno Mars trying to dance:

>

>

Justin Timberlake trying to dance

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novabrkr said:

If JT imitating MJ seems somehow awkward it's not really due to the aspects of race, but just because he's so clearly imitating an idol of his and that might come off as something you could expect maybe a teenager to do, but not a grown up man. If you're going to "reference" other artists in your work it's usually expected to be done in a subtler manner.

I always thought that the twist in the case of the Justified album and its marketing was that, where an artist apeing another artist's style isn't necessarily anything new, here the fact that he was closely referencing Michael Jackson was kind of an overt part of the whole thing. It was like we were being invited to make that link right from the get-go, rather than it being more hidden or denied. Hence, not only were some of the sung vocals on that lead single made to sound incredibly like MJ, there was even this spoken bit with these very Jackson-like recollections about "when I was a little boy", etc.

We even got told about how some of these songs were originally for Michael's album, but were turned down. And with that album having turned out to be a disappointment, where the JT material would've represented a return to form, it was easy to think of it as Justin doing Michael better than Michael was by then!

MotownSubdivision said:

TrueFunkSoldier2 said:

Hes better at being influenced by MJ and being a pop star imo.

Bruno Mars can't even dance that well and he lacks charisma.

[Edited 5/15/14 11:13am]

What? Bruno's a better dancer than JT and really, a better overall performer/ showman not to mention a much more versatile vocalist. The main thing that he lacks though that JT possesses besides seniority is class. Bruno can still come off as a 13 year old in his songs because of the lame, elementary lyrics most of his songs have (Gorilla is a prime example in addition to pretty much every song on his first album). People also say he has no soul in his voice and I disagree with that, he doesn't have as much as JT but it's there deep down; he just needs the perfect song to convey it.

JT being a better pop star than Bruno is debatable and really leans on your preference but I don't see the point when you say JT is better at being influenced by MJ. What significance does that bare?

it's all subjective. Personally i don't think Bruno could keep up with ant dance choreography JT does

and what i meant was you see all those acts including Bruno Mars trying to pull off MJ's style and to be" the next MJ" but JT is doing a better job at it.

[Edited 5/16/14 8:22am]

CynicKill said:

Bruno Mars trying to dance:

>

>

Justin Timberlake trying to dance

>

That clip of Bruno Mars is the same routine he did at the Super Bowl. The Super Bowl version was way better. He really outdid himself.

Okay folks, let's stay on topic. This is about Justin T and Michael, lol By the way, this clip of JT isn't very flattering when it comes to his dance skills. He was awful!

[Edited 5/15/14 14:10pm]

SeventeenDayze said:

Are you suggesting that white artists have been ripped off by black artists, including the Jackson 5????

I didn't say any performer ripped off anyone else, because I don't believe that. Anyway, what does "ripping off" someone has to do with taking pictures with "poor Black children" or "running away to the suburbs"? Doesn't Madonna & Angelina Jolie get jokes made about that? Most performers have been ripped off by the record companies, no matter what their ethnicity is. All that "Elvis ripped off black music" talk is bigoted and bitter. People don't say Black artists ripped off European music by using strings and orchestras in their music. They don't talk about Quincy Jones studying under Nadia Boulanger or Sam Cooke recording showtunes & standards and trying to get into the Copa, or that Marvin Gaye wanted to sing and record songs like Frank Sinatra, and wasn't always that enthused about the material Motown had him record. John Coltrane has a popular version of My Favorite Things from The Sound Of Music. They don't mention Michael getting dance moves from Fred Astaire & Bob Fosse. They don't mention all of those Black jazz performers recording Bossa Nova records in the 1960s. It's always the white man stole black music. There's no stealing, if someone enjoys a certain style and wants to do it.

.

If you look at King Records, there were black & white musicians playing on both country and R&B records and they had a black man (Henry Glover) writing and producing some of the country songs on the label. The records Aretha Franklin is most famous for had a white band (Muscle Shoals) playing on them and had non-black producers (Jerry Wexler & Arif Mardin). Some late 1970s and early 1980's R&B records also had white session musicians like Jay Graydon, generally called "Westcoast". Got To Be Real by Cheryl Lynn had Toto members writing and playing on it. Miles Davis was produced by Teo Macero. The Apollo Theater was ran by Frank Schiffman and he usually picked the acts who appeared there. Some of the classic R&B/soul/jazz records had white people behind it. So the term "stealing" makes no sense to me, when there was interaction between black & white performers from the get go, even in vaudville.

MickyDolenz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Are you suggesting that white artists have been ripped off by black artists, including the Jackson 5????

I didn't say any performer ripped off anyone else, because I don't believe that. Anyway, what does "ripping off" someone has to do with taking pictures with "poor Black children" or "running away to the suburbs"? Doesn't Madonna & Angelina Jolie get jokes made about that? Most performers have been ripped off by the record companies, no matter what their ethnicity is. All that "Elvis ripped off black music" talk is bigoted and bitter. People don't say Black artists ripped off European music by using strings and orchestras in their music. They don't talk about Quincy Jones studying under Nadia Boulanger or Sam Cooke recording showtunes & standards and trying to get into the Copa, or that Marvin Gaye wanted to sing and record songs like Frank Sinatra, and wasn't always that enthused about the material Motown had him record. John Coltrane has a popular version of My Favorite Things from The Sound Of Music. They don't mention Michael getting dance moves from Fred Astaire & Bob Fosse. They don't mention all of those Black jazz performers recording Bossa Nova records in the 1960s. It's always the white man stole black music. There's no stealing, if someone enjoys a certain style and wants to do it.

.

If you look at King Records, there were black & white musicians playing on both country and R&B records and they had a black man (Henry Glover) writing and producing some of the country songs on the label. The records Aretha Franklin is most famous for had a white band (Muscle Shoals) playing on them and had non-black producers (Jerry Wexler & Arif Mardin). Some late 1970s and early 1980's R&B records also had white session musicians like Jay Graydon, generally called "Westcoast". Got To Be Real by Cheryl Lynn had Toto members writing and playing on it. Miles Davis was produced by Teo Macero. The Apollo Theater was ran by Frank Schiffman and he usually picked the acts who appeared there. Some of the classic R&B/soul/jazz records had white people behind it. So the term "stealing" makes no sense to me, when there was interaction between black & white performers from the get go, even in vaudville.

Are you serious about that Elvis comment? He didn't rip off black singers? Wow.....

Justin Timberlake is hanging on tight to MJ's dick. Why is it that so so many times him and JT are mentioned in some type of way? It's like slowly we're being conditioned to associate MJ and JT together. I can't even watch that new MJ video, because Justin's greasy pie face is all up in it. I would have been so satisfied with a video of clips, like the Who Is It video. I'm sick of JT. PLEASE go the fuck somewhere already. God damn. Where the hell is Usher at? I thought he would have been all up in this. I can take that at least. I mean, it's cool to want to be like MJ and adore him and all that, we've all been there, but Justin is just MJ's dick rider. That's all I see him as. Why can't he try to be Elvis or some shit?

Rant Over.

CynicKill said:

Justin Timberlake trying to dance

>

Oh that's the funniest thing I've seen all day.

SeventeenDayze said:

Are you serious about that Elvis comment? He didn't rip off black singers? Wow.....

If Elvis "ripped off" Black singers, then Michael Jackson also "ripped off" Black singers and many early R&B & soul singers "ripped off" gospel music. Why is one a "rip off" and another is "influenced"? Elvis style did not only come from black singers, and even so that does not mean he ripped it off. Basically, you're saying white singers are only supposed to sing "white music", black singers are supposed to sing "black music", Mexican singers are supposed to do "Mexican music", and so on. Elvis was not the only white singer of the time who sang R&B, why did they not become really famous? Since this was the 1950's, why didn't he do music that was already popular with the mainstream white audience like crooner pop or dress like them. Look at the pop charts then. There was no guarantee Elvis was going to get pop airplay. It wasn't the pop stations that played Elvis in the beginning. They played singers like Pat Boone, who remade R&B hits, but not in a R&B style, it was more like the crooner pop that was popular with parents. Elvis was on a small label Sun, and he was played on R&B stations, which in general did not have a 24 hour stations like Top 40 and were often low wattage. If Elvis "ripped off" black music, then what is this?

ScarletScandal said:

Justin Timberlake is hanging on tight to MJ's dick. Why is it that so so many times him and JT are mentioned in some type of way? It's like slowly we're being conditioned to associate MJ and JT together. I can't even watch that new MJ video, because Justin's greasy pie face is all up in it. I would have been so satisfied with a video of clips, like the Who Is It video. I'm sick of JT. PLEASE go the fuck somewhere already. God damn. Where the hell is Usher at? I thought he would have been all up in this. I can take that at least. I mean, it's cool to want to be like MJ and adore him and all that, we've all been there, but Justin is just MJ's dick rider. That's all I see him as. Why can't he try to be Elvis or some shit?

Rant Over.

I agree with you. But, did you see Usher on the iHeartRadio awards? He did a brief tribute to MJ that was just dancing and no singing. I think you're right, JT is being marketed as if he's the new MJ. Basically, JT likes to being a copy cat but never seems to be very genuine about black people unless they are giving him beats of course.

MickyDolenz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Are you serious about that Elvis comment? He didn't rip off black singers? Wow.....

If Elvis "ripped off" Black singers, then Michael Jackson also "ripped off" Black singers and many early R&B & soul singers "ripped off" gospel music. Why is one a "rip off" and another is "influenced"? Elvis style did not only come from black singers, and even so that does not mean he ripped it off. Basically, you're saying white singers are only supposed to sing "white music", black singers are supposed to sing "black music", Mexican singers are supposed to do "Mexican music", and so on. Elvis was not the only white singer of the time who sang R&B, why did they not become really famous? Since this was the 1950's, why didn't he do music that was already popular with the mainstream white audience like crooner pop or dress like them. Look at the pop charts then. There was no guarantee Elvis was going to get pop airplay. It wasn't the pop stations that played Elvis in the beginning. They played singers like Pat Boone, who remade R&B hits, but not in a R&B style, it was more like the crooner pop that was popular with parents. Elvis was on a small label Sun, and he was played on R&B stations, which in general did not have a 24 hour stations like Top 40 and were often low wattage. If Elvis "ripped off" black music, then what is this?

It seems that speaking plain English about this opinion is going over your head. Thanks anyway but I'm not going to engage in your dismissal of historical facts. This thread ia about MJ and Justin Timberlake, so I welcome you to 2014 thanks.

[Edited 5/15/14 15:35pm]

Let's park the racial dynamics for one minute.

What artist like JT WOULDN'T want Michael Jackson's career?

SeventeenDayze said:

It seems that speaking plain English about this opinion is going over your head. Thanks anyway but I'm not going to engage in your dismissal of historical facts. This thread ia about MJ and Justin Timberlake, so I welcome you to 2014 thanks.

What is the difference in what Elvis was doing and what Marian Anderson was doing? She started long before Elvis started recording, and a Black opera singer was not a marketable thing at that time. So she couldn't have done it for that reason, it must be because that's the music she enjoyed. R&B/blues was still mainly popular with the Black audiences when Elvis debuted, so it's basically the flip of Marian. So if Elvis grew up going to Black churches and clubs and enjoyed it, why wouldn't he perform it?

namepeace said:

Let's park the racial dynamics for one minute.

What artist like JT WOULDN'T want Michael Jackson's career?

This question wasn't intended to talk about "wanting" Michael's career. It is strictly about the notion that JT has no problem trying to use black music to elevate himself. He's not threating to middle America and thus is seen as being more marketable.

I just don't understand why some people cannot see the racial dynamic in this situation as well.

Replica said:

I've been listening to mj for a long while before jt. But also listening to jt for a long while now. I don't think it is a problem for me listening to heavily mj influenced artists when they're adding something fresh to it. He is a million times more interesting than Usher and Chris Brown combined IMO. They're every bit as much of so called copies as he is. And why does he have to pose with poor kids to score some fake U2 points. Can't somebody love a genre that is more dominated by one group of people that are visually somewhat different from themselves without it being imitation of a culture that is "owned" by one "race". Black people can sing country without "stealing" white music. Aaron Neville has successfully done so. A better example of white artists stealing black music was Robert Palmer, as he made hit covers out of songs that were just doing alright in the rnb charts. I myself am Norwegian, but also 50% Filipino blood. I'm very much inspired by funk, soul, rap etc, and mainly African American artists. It would be impossible for me to sound half Filipino and half Norwegian when I sing funk songs with English lyrics. What would you advise me to do as an artist?

So is your sarcasm relaying the notion that there's no such thing as a black sound?

SeventeenDayze said:

namepeace said:

Let's park the racial dynamics for one minute.

What artist like JT WOULDN'T want Michael Jackson's career?

This question wasn't intended to talk about "wanting" Michael's career. It is strictly about the notion that JT has no problem trying to use black music to elevate himself. He's not threating to middle America and thus is seen as being more marketable.

I just don't understand why some people cannot see the racial dynamic in this situation as well.

He happens to be influenced by black artists because he's an rnb pop artist. There ain't many white artists in this genre to be influenced by

[Edited 5/15/14 16:26pm]

SeventeenDayze said:

He's not threating to middle America and thus is seen as being more marketable.

Well, if that's all it is, then Justin could perform pop country like Taylor Swift or Rascal Flatts, or music like Michael Buble, Susan Boyle, & Josh Groban, which is generally more acceptable to middle America than R&B. He could also do standards albums like Rod Stewart. Didn't Darius Rucker, Bon Jovi, & Lionel Richie go after the country market in recent years?