NaughtyKitty said:

dag said:

Apparently, this judge thought Katherine was just getting rest from that spoiled brat Paris, that's why Katherine's guardianship got suspended.

The judge said Katherine was not suspended for wrongdoing, but that she was prevented from doing her guardianship duties by "intentional act from third parties."

Not because Katherine was "getting a rest". That means he expected Rebbie, Jermaine, Janet and Randy were up to no good.

NaughtyKitty said:

How do they get this shit so fast?

smoothcriminal12 said:

I feel like Mike almost knew deep down he was gonna die you ng, kinda like Lisa said. For real, if you're writing a will, wy put your mother as the one who will be the guardian of your children, or even Diana Ross, presuming that when you die they will have been long dead?

Given the occasions that Michael spoke out against the evil within the music industry during the final decade of his life, he knew he was potentially good as dead.

TonyVanDam said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I feel like Mike almost knew deep down he was gonna die you ng, kinda like Lisa said. For real, if you're writing a will, wy put your mother as the one who will be the guardian of your children, or even Diana Ross, presuming that when you die they will have been long dead?

Given the occasions that Michael spoke out against the evil within the music industry during the final decade of his life, he knew he was potentially good as dead.

Michael actually had a premonition that he would die before he reached 40. Explains why he was always on the move. Around the late '80s or early '90s, he would sign autographs or paintings as "Michael Jackson 1998".

smoothcriminal12 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I kept asking where the hell is Diana?

To be honest? She don't wanna watch these damn kids.

FACT: Apart from daugther Tracie Ross Ellis, Diana Ross NEVER raised her own damn kids, hence why she always had nannies.

Katherine's lawyer, Sandra Ribera, just said she (Sandra) has been to the house several times recently and she believes Katherine has been held against her will.

Katherine's lawyer, Perry Sanders, tells TMZ, "This is a very tense time when of course we don't feel Mrs. Jackson should be removed as guardian and we would vigorously oppose that on anything other than an extremely short-term basis, until she returns home."

Perry also says ... when Katherine returns to L.A., he will file a motion to reinstate her as guardian.

Interesting that Katherine's attorneys are directly contradicting themselves. No wonder the judge smelled a rat...

[Edited 7/25/12 12:23pm]

[Edited 7/25/12 12:23pm]

TonyVanDam said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

To be honest? She don't wanna watch these damn kids.

FACT: Apart from daugther Tracie Ross Ellis, Diana Ross NEVER raised her own damn kids, hence why she always had nannies.

lol yeah but Diana did make sure to raise her sons. I think that's when there was a start of a career slowage in her career. Diana was being forced by Berry Gordy to release record after record until she got tired of that.

dag said:

Timmy84 said:

Ottensen said:

I hear you. this whole fiasco wasn't every well thought out at all. Didn't they now this all basically reads like reads like lost episodes of Hart To Hart, My Millan & Wife, and Magnum P.I. ?

Stil, I would say no worries. The grandchildren appear to adore Miss Katherine, and as she's returning home to LA I'm sure she will not be displaced in their lives. Besides, she is still one of the heirs to the will so she will be straight.

Now that I've gotten some clarification on California estate law, I think she'll be okay. I just hope her health can stand up to her ornery ass children and they won't descend like vultures over her estate in the case of her untimely passing from "ill health" and "stress".

Now TJ...he will have an allowance for the kid's expenses, but his every move is subject to the executors. Unlike Miss Katherine he doesn't have any additional monies set aside from the will, and he's also not seeking to remove the executors either unlike his aunts & uncles so I'm betting that he might actually have his cousins' best interest at heart over anything else.

The big key here if we wanted a greed motive is- it's all about getting those executors removed, and putting others in place that could possibly do one's bidding. Control of the money, that's where the power lies. I see deals that can bring certain members of the family a lifetime supply of homes around the world, cuts and commissions on branding deals, merchandising with future diviends, etc. When I look back for example, on how itchy Jermaine's ass was to keep Neverland and open it as an amusement park with his very public crusade for that foolishness, despite of how his brother publicly declared he could no longer stand that place. 1. His brother hated that joint and 2. at the time the estate was in the red, and this was his solution for how the money should be invested for Michael's children? Wait... actually, I've never heard him address the welfare of Mike's kids, I just heard ad nauseum about keeping his brother's legacy alive and how Neverland was the beacon of hope and promise to reflect that. Lawd, you know Michael's money in an executor of Jermaine's choosing baiscally is going to go toward his groupie harems in Baharain and his 59 children.

True, maybe TJ should've been the custodian after all considering Katherine's advanced age but I don't blame Michael for thinking he could trust her even if he didn't really know what his mother was surrounded by. I don't think Katherine has a problem with TJ taking over. But Perry would further ruin her chances of getting them back full time. The estate would still take care of her though I think.

Oh I don't blame him for trusting his mom either. And if it is so that she is her son's financial heir along with his children, damned skippy the Estate will take care of her, they don't have a choice.

The only thing that's clear to me is that by estate law, and particularly in the State of california, the real money trail leads to the Executors, as they legally have control over it's management and investment...and he who has control of the Executors can facilitate a wonderful fortune for themselves if they have said Executors in their pocket, no pun intended

Ottensen said:

Timmy84 said:

True, maybe TJ should've been the custodian after all considering Katherine's advanced age but I don't blame Michael for thinking he could trust her even if he didn't really know what his mother was surrounded by. I don't think Katherine has a problem with TJ taking over. But Perry would further ruin her chances of getting them back full time. The estate would still take care of her though I think.

Oh I don't blame him for trusting his mom either. And if it is so that she is her son's financial heir along with his children, damned skippy the Estate will take care of her, they don't have a choice.

The only thing that's clear to me is that by estate law, and particularly in the State of california, the real money trail leads to the Executors, as they legally have control over it's management and investment...and he who has control of the Executors can facilitate a wonderful fortune for themselves if they have said Executors in their pocket, no pun intended

The bottom line.

Categories: Celebrity

http://www.showbiz411.com...every-room

What if, just what if, Katherine is at odds with TJ.

What if TJ is in cahoots with the executors to get THEIR hands on the estate.

What if, just what if, Katherine couldn't handle a rambuctious household, run amoke, by three teens and a lax co-guardian?

The reason I pose all these questions is because they are just as plausible as the opposed view, yet everyone is so eager to make the family out to be as evil as the nazis.

Tito dropping out just could've been him feeling all the negative publicity just isn't worth it. LaToya they might've felt held too much baggage to even involve.

musicology54 said:

Busted! dag said:

Oh really. If I can remember you were the ones calling fans deluded for thinking they could go after the money, cause the siblings know that they are not going to get anything so why would they do that.

As far as being beneficeries of the Will. But not as gaurdians of the kids - even if the amount is minimal, or as executors of the state - which is impossible

[Edited 7/25/12 12:37pm]

Katherine Jackson's attorney, Perry Sanders, told RadarOnline.com exclusively that he will go back to court in the next several days, to have the Jackson family matriarch's custody of Michael Jackson's children re-instated, after Judge Mitchell Beckloff gave temporary guardianship of the kids to Tito Jackson's son,T.J.

"Randy (Jackson) texted me during the court proceedings and said that Katherine was on her way back to Los Angeles. I will be going back to court in the very near future to have her guardianship of Michael Jackson's children re-instated," Sanders told RadarOnline.comexclusively.

PHOTOS: Michael Jackson�... His Death

As previously reported, Los Angeles JudgeMitchell Beckloff made the ruling in an emergency guardianship hearing Wednesday morning, appointing Tito Jackson’s son as the temporary guardian of Prince, Paris and Blanket Jackson.

Full story: http://www.radaronline.co...reinstated

NaughtyKitty said:

Katherine's lawyer, Sandra Ribera, just said she (Sandra) has been to the house several times recently and she believes Katherine has been held against her will.

Katherine's lawyer, Perry Sanders, tells TMZ, "This is a very tense time when of course we don't feel Mrs. Jackson should be removed as guardian and we would vigorously oppose that on anything other than an extremely short-term basis, until she returns home."

Perry also says ... when Katherine returns to L.A., he will file a motion to reinstate her as guardian.

Interesting that Katherine's attorneys are directly contradicting themselves. No wonder the judge smelled a rat...

[Edited 7/25/12 12:23pm]

[Edited 7/25/12 12:23pm]

yeah, but you have to remember: he's her lawyer. katherine has just suffered a major, major defeat in court. she's lost custody of these kids, and with the judge openly telling tj to file for permanent custody, she's likely lost it forever. that is bad, bad, bad.

but he's her advocate so he's going to say that katherine shouldn't have her guardianship revoked and put up a brave front. he's going to go through his motions, in spite of the fact that he knows that kat has been at the very least manipulated by the same siblings who challenged his legal counsel in that now infamous letter. the judge smelled a rat in the siblings, not sanders. sanders is going to do all that he can to try to get things reversed for her. (i don't think it will work, though.)

oh what a tangled web we weave. . .

TonyVanDam said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

To be honest? She don't wanna watch these damn kids.

FACT: Apart from daugther Tracie Ross Ellis, Diana Ross NEVER raised her own damn kids, hence why she always had nannies.

Doesn't surprise me.

Timmy84 said:

Ottensen said:

Oh I don't blame him for trusting his mom either. And if it is so that she is her son's financial heir along with his children, damned skippy the Estate will take care of her, they don't have a choice.

The only thing that's clear to me is that by estate law, and particularly in the State of california, the real money trail leads to the Executors, as they legally have control over it's management and investment...and he who has control of the Executors can facilitate a wonderful fortune for themselves if they have said Executors in their pocket, no pun intended

The bottom line.

exactly what i posted yesterday. the siblings are after replacing the two johns with someone who will do their bidding, regardless of whether its in the best long term interest of katherine or mj3.

All of this because Mrs. Jackson took a vacation, and general poor communication.....And what about this?

ANTHONY JACKSON ‏(@ATONCLASSIC) said:

Aunty Katie wanted to fight the will. But for some reason she was stopped. She loves you @ParisJackson and I am very worried for her.

And wow, she is going to be crushed now with Blanket gone.

TonyVanDam said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

To be honest? She don't wanna watch these damn kids.

FACT: Apart from daugther Tracie Ross Ellis, Diana Ross NEVER raised her own damn kids, hence why she always had nannies.

Don't most celebraties have nannies?

mjscarousal said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Good post there.

I wouldn't say she hasn't 'mastered' dancing, she is very skilled in dance, she definately has dance far beyond Mariah & Whitney lol so that side of artistic ability she has on paper. As far as Raw presence she is very intelligent and fierce probably in ways Michael Jackson & Whitney Houston even Janet were not, because every move she made she was in control. She always had that sharpness and that is raw presence

MJ outside of being wicked on stage & video, and he was definately intelligent in being hands on in his career, that other side that we saw in interviews, that sappy I'm so shy person who lived in a fantasy world that he never really experienced, doesn't have much presence. Which is where the imbalance you talked about come in. Which is partially why all those things in his life from the race changing to the children issues became so prevalent so fast after Thriller.

M, She also writes & cowrites her songs Janet didn't write till the Janet album overall, how much of Michaels songs were all Michaels writing, Whitney didn't write her songs.

Mariah was very hands on in her post Tommy M career

She at an early age and in that latest of the 70's and earliest of the 80's understood media pop culture and what not and only a sharply intelligent woman could take that and still be on the top in the 1980's 1990's & 2000's That's not sheer luck. That's and Intelligent Sharp Presence

Race changing? Nobody can change their race and Michael had Vitiligo

Oh and Michael wrote 90 percent of his catalogue UNLIKE Madonna.

Madonna was a very smart business woman but she doesnt have any talent at all. She has made some catchy music, pushes herself creatively and has some good big productions but overall I dont understand her popularity besides that. She doesnt deserve to be compared to people like Michael or Prince who had RAW talent that they just had. Madonna had to go to school for dance and even though she went to school for dance doesnt necessarily make her good because technically Madonna isnt a exceptional dancer... very average although she has her moments where she does a good job but she is way out of Janets league in that respect LIGHT YEARS WAY OUT!

Also, Michael had a different upbringing than Madonna which had an affect on them as people. Although, he was shy, Michael had a presence and was able to connect with people unlike Madonna who gets attention because she tries to be shocking.

Although Michael was shy, he was interesting and did unordinary things like bringing bubbles to an award show, naming his house Neverland etc.. He was FAR from boring which is why he is a FAR greater legend than Madonna. I aint knocking Madonna although she very overrated she is an Icon right behind Michael but I dont think they should be compared .... EVER.

[Edited 7/25/12 11:11am]

outside of the stage and videos what presence or character did michael have. I sympathize with his life but he had none because of the way it turned. When you saw Michael out in public after Studio 54 it was all fantasy

And yes michael was interesting because of the life that he had, his Neverland fantasy of music videos an concerts was very good and did good to entertain and present the songs.

After Thriller & Bad though everything else was a copy cat of the last album, he had no life anymore. His presence was electric only as far as the stage. I still don't get the 'shy' stuff he and janet pull.

Michael was a far greater legend because he started at age 9, started long before Bruce Madonna or Prince

I doubt Madonna is overrated as an icon though.

Don't let your love for any superstar ever blind you from basic facts though and there are things that as entertainers (nothing personal) as far keeping their careers intact, Madonna did well, Michael had some serious personal issue that he could not be able to stop from surfacing.

And Michael changed races. Stop it lol

the whole family is a bit 'touched'

Nothing I've said takes away from Michael, I was a big fan still am.

kibbles said:

NaughtyKitty said:

Interesting that Katherine's attorneys are directly contradicting themselves. No wonder the judge smelled a rat...

[Edited 7/25/12 12:23pm]

[Edited 7/25/12 12:23pm]

yeah, but you have to remember: he's her lawyer. katherine has just suffered a major, major defeat in court. she's lost custody of these kids, and with the judge openly telling tj to file for permanent custody, she's likely lost it forever. that is bad, bad, bad.

but he's her advocate so he's going to say that katherine shouldn't have her guardianship revoked and put up a brave front. he's going to go through his motions, in spite of the fact that he knows that kat has been at the very least manipulated by the same siblings who challenged his legal counsel in that now infamous letter. the judge smelled a rat in the siblings, not sanders. sanders is going to do all that he can to try to get things reversed for her. (i don't think it will work, though.)

oh what a tangled web we weave. . .

Yes I get that as her lawyer he's trying to put up a brave front in the midst of defeat. However listening to his press conference outside the court at times it almost sounded like he could have been a spokesman for the Jackson family, the way he tried to spin and downplay the whole crazy situation. And it seems weird that he didnt try to do anything about being denied to see his own client when he went to that spa. I understand that he couldnt do anything at that moment but what about after he left? On the other hand Katherine's other lawyer Sandra has said she's been to the house several times and believes that Katherine is being held against her will. Two lawyers working for the same person but have two DRASTICALLY different takes on this whole situation. I think Sandra saying that she feels KJ is being held at the spa against her will, Perry saying he was denied access to her, TJ saying when he spoke on the phone with her and could tell something was very wrong with her---along with other things---all played a heavy role in the judge's decision today.

[Edited 7/25/12 12:54pm]

LiLi1992 said:

mancabdriver said:

I'd say it's opinion rather than fact to state 'Michael was the star of the family and the other children are not nearly as talented and charismatic’. It maybe hard for you to digest, but there are some people who do not rate his music or talent. (For what it’s worth I thought he was a genius, I like some of his tunes, have most his albums, but didn’t like much of his personality and didn’t really find most of his music to be relatable)

But I’m sure you are being sarcastic here because you can't possibly be silly enough not to know the difference between what is a stone cold fact and person’s subjective opinion.

And yes I love the truth, but in the words of the of the greatest living actor, Jack Nicholson (my opinion – see the difference?) some people ‘can’t handle the truth’

I made a familiar words for you, that you had better understand what I'm trying to say ....
it is you always try to speculate on the word "fact", substituting just "opinion." I personally think that MJ would still be a star (with Joe or not), because he has obvious talent and artistry from early childhood.
And yes, there are facts of objective reality, but there's just an opinion, which is based on personal perceptions and feelings. .
Although I'm sure that 90% of people in the world believe MJ talented person, despite the relevance to his personality or his music.

This is not the place to be questioning people's intellectual abilities.

Born in 1992?? Says it all. You're not around long enough to be taken seriously – Kids usually don’t know what they are talking about.

dag said:

Allegedly, TJ was made a temporary guardian.

This is what someone posted on KOP.

Before Bekloff appointed TJ ... TJ's lawyer said TJ had a strange phone call with Katherine yesterday and TJ said, "I've never heard my grandmother talk like that." TJ added, "She wasn't sharp. The pauses, choice of vocabulary ... she has not used certain phrases like that before." TJ thought she was talking in code. As TJ addressed the court, he was choking up.

I'll bet Katherine really did have a stroke.

mancabdriver said:

LiLi1992 said:

I made a familiar words for you, that you had better understand what I'm trying to say ....
it is you always try to speculate on the word "fact", substituting just "opinion." I personally think that MJ would still be a star (with Joe or not), because he has obvious talent and artistry from early childhood.
And yes, there are facts of objective reality, but there's just an opinion, which is based on personal perceptions and feelings. .
Although I'm sure that 90% of people in the world believe MJ talented person, despite the relevance to his personality or his music.

This is not the place to be questioning people's intellectual abilities.

Born in 1992?? Says it all. You're not around long enough to be taken seriously – Kids usually don’t know what they are talking about.

Interesting. You say that this is not the place to be questioning people's intellectual abilities, yet you do exactly that in the second sentence.

NaughtyKitty said:

kibbles said:

yep. she probably shouldn't have been the guardian in the first place. i'm a little skeptical of tj as well, as i'm not sure that he *isn't* also inclined to exert undue influence over mj3 when it comes to 'family' enterprises.

case in point, the wales concert fiasco. he and his brothers participated in that crap, and likely were a determining factor in mj3's participation. it was done to thumb the nose at the very men who are in charge of the estate which benefits mj3. i know that one of his brothers, taj, was very, very vocal about his displeasure at the estate for 'michael'; i'm sure that he still bears some ill will towards them, and i'm just as sure that he will be around mj3. remember, the true end game in all this is to try to turn the beneficiaries against the estate execs. if they couldn't turn katherine, maybe they'll be able to get at mj3(?).

since the judge set no limitation on who can be around mj3, what's to stop rebbie, janet, randy, jermaine from trying to contact them by phone or something? what's to stop them from using katherine to get at tj? that's how they got to mj, they sent katherine to do their bidding for the things that they wanted from him.

Very good points you made here. Its good that TJ and MJ3 have a good relationship....but even if he ends up getting permanent guardianship--how is that going to stop the other Jacksons from going after him?

Ive always liked TJ... and he has always loved and respected his Uncle and defended him through the bullshit.. TJ aint stupid and he wouldnt allow his greedy uncles and aunts to pull no shit with him...

tmo1965 said:

dag said:

Allegedly, TJ was made a temporary guardian.

This is what someone posted on KOP.

Before Bekloff appointed TJ ... TJ's lawyer said TJ had a strange phone call with Katherine yesterday and TJ said, "I've never heard my grandmother talk like that." TJ added, "She wasn't sharp. The pauses, choice of vocabulary ... she has not used certain phrases like that before." TJ thought she was talking in code. As TJ addressed the court, he was choking up.

I'll bet Katherine really did have a stroke.

From what has been happening, she might have eventually gotten one. Anyway, Jermaine said she had one months ago.

Jermaine Jackson ‏@jermjackson5

The truth is that Mother DID suffer a mini-stroke some months ago. She is fine now, but the timeline doesn't alter the fact it happened

Since then he and Randy have kept saying she is fine.

musicjunky318 said:

mjscarousal said:

I think its insulting to Michaels accomplishments and TALENT than you would even sit here and compare him to MADONNA not to mention Madonna doesnt even have the same popularity as Michael. Her being a good business woman has NOTHING to do with this thread and they were TWO DIFFERENT people than with through DIFFERENT things that had DIFFERENT childhoods. Stop trying to bash Michael and put him down. Nobody insisted that all the choices he made was perfect for you to make this post in this thread that has nothing to do with MADONNA

I'm not bashing Michael at all. I think it's a fair analysis. He had a sad life in a lot ways that he talked about himself. I wish he didn't and I actually said in there that I wish he didn't but what's fact is fact. I was making a contrast between someone who has more talent yet struggled personally and someone with less talent but runs a pretty stable life and career. Where is the lie in that? Where is the insult? If anything I'm elevating his gifts.

I was being as objective as possible. I admire the both of them.

This is NOT about MADONNA and MICHAEL

and NO your analysis is dumb, pointless and silly...

This has NOTHING to do Madonna... THIS THREAD IS ABOUT Katherines well being and the childrens

Your not trying to put Michael in a good light, that post was clearly to boost Madonna someone that people can give less than a fuck about in this thread...

[Edited 7/25/12 13:04pm]

tmo1965 said:

dag said:

Allegedly, TJ was made a temporary guardian.

This is what someone posted on KOP.

Before Bekloff appointed TJ ... TJ's lawyer said TJ had a strange phone call with Katherine yesterday and TJ said, "I've never heard my grandmother talk like that." TJ added, "She wasn't sharp. The pauses, choice of vocabulary ... she has not used certain phrases like that before." TJ thought she was talking in code. As TJ addressed the court, he was choking up.

I'll bet Katherine really did have a stroke.

It's sad that the certain parties managed to sway this into ludicrous drama, when in reality an elderly woman is ill.

Azz said:

tmo1965 said:

I'll bet Katherine really did have a stroke.

It's sad that the certain parties managed to sway this into ludicrous drama, when in reality an elderly woman is ill.

Have you noticed that not even the judge believed that?