Timmy84 said:

Hmm, since people wanna talk about Michael, okay...

Michael DID try to change but he was afraid of how it would be perceived. He did change his Billie Jean choreography somewhat on his tours.

My thing is with Michael, his moves were a "trademark" so maybe he felt if he stepped out of that trademark, he wouldn't wanna read the reviews of how he "changed so much".

He was never gonna do what Madonna did and I wouldn't expect him to even if he was alive right now.

To be honest, I don't know why Michael and Madonna are even compared. Same with Janet and Madonna in this thread.

yeah that's kinda what I meant when I said Maybe people didnt want him to change.

And I agree with the last 2 sentences. I dont know why either.

errant said:

PatrickS77 said:

Yeah! And as a casual Madonna... well, fan... I kinda hate what she does.. I mean, when I go to her show, I wanna see the songs the way they originally were and I wanna hear the old songs... so of the 3 shows I saw, I hated Drowned World the most, as there were mostly no old songs and the ones she did were in strange versions.... and the same applies to Michael, casual people wanna see his trademark stuff, while I, as a fan, who has seen his stuff a million times, would have loved if he would have drastically changed up his stuff. So as an artist really, it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. There is no way to please them all.

But we know which one works for artistic vision and which one doesn't. While Madonna has continued to climb mountains decade after decade, MJ stifled himself, always trying desperately to top himself or get the same concept "right" time and again with the laws of diminishing returns setting in. And in the end, it that kind of psychology might have killed him, while Madonna just reached another milestone in her 30th year of performing.

It's upsetting and unsettling what happened to Michael, both in his life and in his career, but it was his own drive to do the same thing better next time, instead of doing something different and doing it very well that stagnated him.

Michael's way was to please everyone. To be liked by everyone. To have something for everyone. That was always his goal. That was what he was told to do from early on. Madonna doesn't give a shit. Prince doesn't give a shit. They do whatever they want to do and do not really care whether the audience... the paying audience, really fully enjoys what they are doing. That is the difference.

And really it was unfair to put all these expectations on him. Kiss, AC/DC, Rolling Stones, U2, Aerosmith and so on, they all to the same, always play the same songs, doing similar sets and they don't get as much shit, well, apart from their fan bases, than Michael (or Janet or other pop acts, who stick to what they're known for) has gotten.

[Edited 2/6/12 13:14pm]

PatrickS77 said:

errant said:

But we know which one works for artistic vision and which one doesn't. While Madonna has continued to climb mountains decade after decade, MJ stifled himself, always trying desperately to top himself or get the same concept "right" time and again with the laws of diminishing returns setting in. And in the end, it that kind of psychology might have killed him, while Madonna just reached another milestone in her 30th year of performing.

It's upsetting and unsettling what happened to Michael, both in his life and in his career, but it was his own drive to do the same thing better next time, instead of doing something different and doing it very well that stagnated him.

Michael's way was to please everyone. To be liked by everyone. To have something for everyone. That was always his goal. The was what he was told to do from early on. Madonna doesn't give a shit. Prince doesn't give a shit. They do whatever they want to do and do not really care whether the audience... the paying audience, really fully enjoys what they are doing. That is the difference.

Exactly! Michael wanted everyone to love him. Madonna and Prince weren't made from the same cloth. The only things the three shared were they were born in 1958, brought up in Midwestern states and broke through on MTV in the '80s. But that's when the similarities end.

Timmy84 said:

Hmm, since people wanna talk about Michael, okay...

Michael DID try to change but he was afraid of how it would be perceived. He did change his Billie Jean choreography somewhat on his tours.

My thing is with Michael, his moves were a "trademark" so maybe he felt if he stepped out of that trademark, he wouldn't wanna read the reviews of how he "changed so much".

He was never gonna do what Madonna did and I wouldn't expect him to even if he was alive right now.

To be honest, I don't know why Michael and Madonna are even compared. Same with Janet and Madonna in this thread.

I agree but the thing is if I recall corrctly, during MJ's Dangerous era, didnt Madonna encourage him to change his style u a bit whcih gave us the shortened less greasy do, Keep It In The Closet semi-normalness video etc? She encouraged him to change his imagae and it kind of worked for him.

rdhull said:

Timmy84 said:

Hmm, since people wanna talk about Michael, okay...

Michael DID try to change but he was afraid of how it would be perceived. He did change his Billie Jean choreography somewhat on his tours.

My thing is with Michael, his moves were a "trademark" so maybe he felt if he stepped out of that trademark, he wouldn't wanna read the reviews of how he "changed so much".

He was never gonna do what Madonna did and I wouldn't expect him to even if he was alive right now.

To be honest, I don't know why Michael and Madonna are even compared. Same with Janet and Madonna in this thread.

I agree but the thing is if I recall corrctly, during MJ's Dangerous era, didnt Madonna encourage him to change his style u a bit whcih gave us the shortened less greasy do, Keep It In The Closet semi-normalness video etc? She encouraged him to change his imagae and it kind of worked for him.

I heard she wanted him to play a woman for that video.

rdhull said:

Timmy84 said:

Hmm, since people wanna talk about Michael, okay...

Michael DID try to change but he was afraid of how it would be perceived. He did change his Billie Jean choreography somewhat on his tours.

My thing is with Michael, his moves were a "trademark" so maybe he felt if he stepped out of that trademark, he wouldn't wanna read the reviews of how he "changed so much".

He was never gonna do what Madonna did and I wouldn't expect him to even if he was alive right now.

To be honest, I don't know why Michael and Madonna are even compared. Same with Janet and Madonna in this thread.

I agree but the thing is if I recall corrctly, during MJ's Dangerous era, didnt Madonna encourage him to change his style u a bit whcih gave us the shortened less greasy do, Keep It In The Closet semi-normalness video etc? She encouraged him to change his imagae and it kind of worked for him.

I don't know it's possible. I do remember when before they were to duet on "In the Closet", their conversation allegedly broke down because Madonna wanted Michael and her to do "drag" in the video and Michael was like "thanks but no thanks." I think Michael was more influenced by what his sister did when she changed her look for "Love Will Never Do" with her newly dyed blond hairdo, wearing a halter top and jeans (paving the way for her janet. look) and because she had worked with Herb Ritts (as did Madonna) so Michael figured "hmm, I can do that too." He seemed more inspired by Janet though. Like "Love Will Never Do", he had a model in his "In the Closet" video. I always loved that video (In the Closet).

rdhull said:

Timmy84 said:

Hmm, since people wanna talk about Michael, okay...

Michael DID try to change but he was afraid of how it would be perceived. He did change his Billie Jean choreography somewhat on his tours.

My thing is with Michael, his moves were a "trademark" so maybe he felt if he stepped out of that trademark, he wouldn't wanna read the reviews of how he "changed so much".

He was never gonna do what Madonna did and I wouldn't expect him to even if he was alive right now.

To be honest, I don't know why Michael and Madonna are even compared. Same with Janet and Madonna in this thread.

I agree but the thing is if I recall corrctly, during MJ's Dangerous era, didnt Madonna encourage him to change his style u a bit whcih gave us the shortened less greasy do, Keep It In The Closet semi-normalness video etc? She encouraged him to change his imagae and it kind of worked for him.

She wanted him to cross dress. The ITC video has nothing to do with her.

Ah yes! His jeans and shirt ARE reminscent of Love Can Never Do.

Cross dress? That's all MJ needed was to put on a dress. E-gads.

But he looked semi normal at the oscars with her.

rdhull said:

Ah yes! His jeans and shirt ARE reminscent of Love Can Never Do.

Cross dress? That's all MJ needed was to put on a dress. E-gads.

But he looked semi normal at the oscars with her.

lol he didn't really change that much. I've seen him in suits prior to his appearance with Madonna.

Madonna ....Please don't dance

She's Over

seeingvoices12 said:

Madonna ....Please don't dance

She's Over

Why not? lol

She is 53 and she still can dance better than some young artists out there.

xLiberiangirl said:

seeingvoices12 said:

Madonna ....Please don't dance

She's Over

Why not? lol

She is 53 and she still can dance better than some young artists out there.

Tina Turner.

And really, saying Maddy danced better than people today ain't nothing to brag about. Today's folks CAN'T dance lol

Didn't watch it. Unless it's an artist I really like, I stay away from it. At this point, Puppy Bowl beats out most of the halftime shows.

Janet wins this...EASILY. As a fan of both women ( I know, I know...), I am partial to both. And I did like Madonna's show. However, if you are going on the performance of the star alone (which you should), then Janet K.O.'d Madonna, period. Madge was stiff to say the least, slipped a couple of times, and required a three-ring circus, million-dollar effects and 20 guests to make her look good (nevermind the fact that all anyone can talk about today is MIA flipping the bird as opposed to the show itself). Also, did Madonna not think anyone was aware of this?...

Janet got up there with a minimal set, ONE guest (you can exclude Kid Rock, Outkast, Nelly and Diddy, because their segments didn't include Janet), and turned. that. shit. out. The ALL FOR YOU choreography was different than in the video, and the RN segment with the marching band and inclusion of "The Knowledge" was on point. Nevermind the fact that she worked the hell out of that stage with nary a trip, slip or fall. If I were her, I would have debuted ALL NITE instead of including Timberflake for the last bit, but that's neither here nor there. As it stands, since 2004, all halftime shows have been compared to Janet's, Madonna's included. And it will continue to be that way.

By the way, I found this online earlier. For shits and giggles...

Being a huge fan of both, I'd go more with Madonna. For one Madonna was the whole halftime show, not just part of it. Madonna's had a lot going on and a huge load of effects (probably to compete with Gaga). The costumes were good even if they were stolen from Kylie

had Madonna performed the halftime in 2004 when she was younger she would show much more energy. She was at a slow pace at the superbowl, but she still moves more than the strolling janet nowadays! Stll, with these 8 years between their performances...Madonna sure wins!

not 2 mention the titty fiasco right? malfunction ...yeah right

aardvark15 said:

Being a huge fan of both, I'd go more with Madonna. For one Madonna was the whole halftime show, not just part of it. Madonna's had a lot going on and a huge load of effects (probably to compete with Gaga). The costumes were good even if they were stolen from Kylie

Notice how you brought up everything except Madonna's PERFORMANCE. See this is what Im talking about

Quantity over Quality.

Janet does not NEED a bunch of effects to get people's attention, Nor Does MJ. They have Natural Talent.

Madonna has to constantly rely on damn near 30 people in her choreography so it looks like its tooo much going on. Put it this way, If you were to put Janet or MJ in a room with Just a Mic By themselves they would leave you in awe. If you were to put Madonna in a room with just a mic by herself..........................

[Edited 2/6/12 15:30pm]

go2theMax said:

had Madonna performed the halftime in 2004 when she was younger she would show much more energy. She was at a slow pace at the superbowl, but she still moves more than the strolling janet nowadays! Stll, with these 8 years between their performances...Madonna sure wins!

Madonna was never a dancer in terms of street/jazz choreography. Technically trained, maybe. But she was never the dancing performer that Janet was or is. Even in her younger days. Janet may stroll every once and a while (she deserves to after years of basically being the blueprint for the Ciaras and Britneys of the world), but she still has it, as is evidenced in her latest show. Madonna may have pulled out all the stops as far as effects go, but her performance alone paled in comparison to Janet's. Nevermind the fact that we've seen the whole gladiator theme with Kylie, the cheerleader thing with Kylie AND Gwen Stefani, and "Like a Prayer" featuring a 50-person choir thing from Madonna herself before.

rdhull said:

Ah yes! His jeans and shirt ARE reminscent of Love Can Never Do.

Cross dress? That's all MJ needed was to put on a dress. E-gads.

But he looked semi normal at the oscars with her.

He looked more normal here

I do not like their joint appearance at the Oscars, Madonna looks older than him and they both dressed in a shiny outfits. yayak
they are simply the personification of the lack of taste there.

----------------

and on :: Madonna......... but Pince best of both of them combined.

[Edited 2/6/12 15:38pm]

At the same time- Janet was much younger than Madonna when she performed the superbowl.

go2theMax said:

not 2 mention the titty fiasco right? malfunction ...yeah right

The "titty fiasco"? It was only a "fiasco" because the media made it out to be. When I initially watched the show, I had to ask myself did I see what I just thought I saw...it was just that quick. Of course it's going to be a fiasco when you have every news outlet blowing the freeze frame of it up of 1,000 times the size and airing it 20 times a day, the hypocrites in middle-America claiming their kids were blinded and scarred for life for seeing something that gives nourishment to babies, and a conservative administration (cough-Bush/Powell-cough) sending out the lynchmob to deem Janet the antichrist because of a .5 second flash of her nipple-shielded breast. The rock band Garbage's song "Sex is Not the Enemy" was based around the 2004 SB incident. Shirley Manson of Garbage said it best:

"Sex Is Not the Enemy" was influenced by the February 1, 2004 Super Bowl Halftime controversy, when Manson noticed that the incident was featured on the USA Today cover for three days in a row with no mention of the Iraq War. Manson felt the media "was only focusing on Janet’s beautiful tit, which I thought was bizarre".

Bizarre indeed.

wHAT A CIRCUS !

people don't need to go the circus anymore , madonna is here!

I have watched the performance 3 times , re-inventing my ass

The perfromace doesn't show any sign of raw talent ! ...singing , dancing........etc!

we are not in a circus!

This board is still on the superbowl performance...

babybugz said:

This board is still on the superbowl performance...

its a slow music week..soulalive probably hasnt slept a wink since Saturday night though

babybugz said:

This board is still on the superbowl performance...

yes

SEANMAN said:

go2theMax said:

not 2 mention the titty fiasco right? malfunction ...yeah right

The "titty fiasco"? It was only a "fiasco" because the media made it out to be.

Yes. And the rest of the world was laughing about how the "greatest nation of the earth" could get derailed over a tit.

I wouldn't touch Madge with a 10 foot pole, but on the other hand I'd probably cut a pinky toe off to do unspeakable acts with Janet....I thought both were meh....but I'd much rather see Janet's titties ANYDAY of the week then watch Madge lip-sing and share the stage with other no talent hacks like LMFAO and Nicki The Tranny Minaj, cause Janet was/is finnnnne as hell, so I gotta go with Janet.

PatrickS77 said:

SEANMAN said:

The "titty fiasco"? It was only a "fiasco" because the media made it out to be.

Yes. And the rest of the world was laughing about how the "greatest nation of the earth" could get derailed over a tit.

America has always been uptight regarding sex...violence however is okay.

PatrickS77 said:

SEANMAN said:

The "titty fiasco"? It was only a "fiasco" because the media made it out to be.

Yes. And the rest of the world was laughing about how the "greatest nation of the earth" could get derailed over a tit.

Yeah this country got lampooned hard after criticism over the tit flash... HARD.