ThreadBare said:

Exactly!!!



http://musicindustry.suit...n_in_music

Women as Sexual Objects

Sex sells. There is no denying this fact. It is a tremendous marketing tool and fuels the insatiable cravings of a sex-obsessed society. Women are sexually objectified to maintain the strong patriarchal values that the world has been built on since the beginning of time. The Feminist movement made vast improvements during the 1960s because change was an acceptable and respected practice during this era. However, for as much as the 1960s accomplished, the Patriarchal establishment still reigns supreme. It is extremely difficult to challenge a system that has been set in stone for centuries.

There are many female singers present in the music industry. Many have great voices and maintain a strong subjectivity throughout their songs or performances. Artists such as Whitney Huston, Aretha Franklin and Reba McEntire are rarely criticized for their raunchy lyrics or fashions. The sole factor being is that they do not need to be vulgar or raunchy. They have been around for quite sometime and are respected on the merit of their talents alone. They have proven themselves. It is the younger generation of singers that are the most troublesome.

The Younger Generation of Singers

There have been many young artists that have started out as legitimate singers. Vowing to make it on the strength of their voice rather then the size of their body, artists begin their career with a dream. However, record companies place a lot of trust, time and money into an artist and if that particular singer’s record sales begin to dwindle, changes must ensue.

The most crucial aspect of this singer is no longer her voice. It has now become about her body and how she can sexualize herself to appeal to a large male audience (in hopes of obtaining fans that may not have been attracted to her music in the first place). If one would reminisce for a brief moment. Think about the artists that started off as innocent, wholesome singers and then abruptly transitioned into highly sexualized objects. Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Jessica Simpson, Mariah Carey (breast implants and all), Jennifer Lopez, Jewel, Fergie, Jojo, Avril Lavigne and so on.

In a brief biography on Britney Spears, located on legendvega.com, the idea of sexuality and female pop singers is focused on in detail: " ...there was a definite tension between the wholesome innocence Spears tried to project for her female audience, and the titillating sexuality that enticed so many male fans. Those marketing tactics made Spears a somewhat controversial figure, the subject of endless debates concerning appropriate role models for teenage girls" (2002).

These artists will fabricate and state that they altered their look because they had personally changed inside. How naïve do these singers believe society is? There is no record company in this world (who has invested millions into this particular singer) that would allow one of its artists to alter their image for their own benefit. There is too much at risk. That is why there are executives sitting around a boardroom table for hours on end contemplating how they can better market their performer to the world. So when Christina Aguilera mentions that she became “dirty” as a result of her maturation, one can just imagine the Public Relations group for Christina silently padding themselves on the back.

Read more at Suite101: Women, Sex and Music: The Sexualization of Female Singers in the Music Industry | Suite101.com http://musicindustry.suit...z0aOHQhwPH

I know no one will listen to this but it's worth considering the female videos that show her as both assertive and sexual.

Britney's Toxic shows her naked numerous times but it also shows her using said sexuality to obtain information she needs (since she's a spy). All the men in the video readily comply with her advances. She's shown to BE sexy and also get "sex". Her Slave 4 U video has equal amounts of guys AND girls gyrating everywhere. Her Boys video shows scantily clad girls AND bare chested men (with her eventually choosing Austin Powers - the unconventional choice). Womanizer shows her in a sauna naked and a guy in a shower naked.

I can't recall a Beyonce video that does this, except maybe Irreplaceable where she is shown in her bra (getting ready for her date), kicks a man out then finishes the song in time for her new man to arrive. She shows off her body but also has power (dumping a cheating man, already dating another).

Me, Myself and I shows her in a bath and with low cut dresses, but also shows her dumping a grovelling, cheating man again.

Gaga shows all kinds of sexual encounters, as does Madonna.

Mariah's videos are woefully unequal.

Now what MALE videos show women and men equally sexual?
[Edited 12/21/09 21:04pm]

DesireeNevermind said:

Um, no one. I was just repeating what's been said before. A girl shows some skin, she's automatically a whore, or a pawn.

She's never an assertive woman who's comfortable with her body. Heaven forbid that women like that exist. I mean, sheesh, that might give people one less thing to bitch about. I think what it boils down to is that some people are offended too easily, or they see other people doing things that they're not comfortable enough with themselves to do, and so they've got to blame everyone else for it.

BenaimanBawkah said:

Who on here is calling these women or any female music performer a whore? Nobody on here is stupid enough to think that there is no such thing as an assertive woman comfortable with her body. Shit, have you not heard of Aretha Franklin and Macy Gray?

Nobody is easily offended at anything other than the topic at hand which is the notion that these chicks can't sell a record unless they drop it like it's hot. That's the offensive part and it's offensive because many of them can actually sing.

purplesweat said:

I think you're missing the point of how a male-dominant society internalizes what you're describing.

The male dancers or characters are present largely to reinforce Beyonce's or Spears' heterosexuality or appeal to male consumers. They're present in the scenarios as foils. The videos aren't vehicles to promote the men's sexuality as much as to reinforce that of the female performer. It's about Beyonce being desirable. It's about Spears as a sexual force.

At best, in the mind of the marketer, the men you reference in those videos are more like surrogates for the target male viewer to identify with.

Likewise, in videos of male artists that objectify women, the male artists are surrogates for the male viewers. In movies or vids, it's usually about the male star getting the girl.


Case in point: Purple Rain. To men who were teens when that dropped, Apollonia is the conquest in that movie. She's the prize, the muse, the sex kitten. Prince wins her, reinforcing the guy-gets-girl model in patriarchal society.

purplesweat said:

I hear ya purple. I think Brittney has come close to portraying herself as assertive in her sexuality and even has offered up some half naked guys along with half naked girls. Still,,,,she shows more than she needs to. Ok maybe not, cuz I don't think chica can sing worth a damn but that's just my musical opinion.


Bey is a good example of over kill in the sexy department. She has strong vocals and her music is pretty good, she doesn't need the video to hold up the song. But I think she does come off as overly sexualized in her vids. She shows too much and she really doesn't have to. In her clothes, we can clearly see she's hot and shapely, we don't need the bare thigh, rump shaking and cleavage all the dang time. I actually think she was more classy when she was with destiny's child. Now she comes off like Mariah when she was entering her thirties, almost like she's trying to forever remind us that she's hot even though she's no longer 19 or some shit. It's coo coo.

very good point threadb. again boils down to what turns on the fellas.

DesireeNevermind said:

I'm just going to say one thing, and then I'm done with this shit, because every time I try to explain something, someone says something that makes no sense and makes me want to put a bullet in my skull.

Let. People. Do. What. They. Want. As. Long. As. They're. Not. Hurting. You. Or. Anyone. Else. These women make their own decisions, and they don't need someone else picking over every goddamn thing they do.

BenaimanBawkah said:

Yeah, that's like saying Lindsay Lohann has not been a role model. She has, whether she likes it or not, and so been a hurt to others. Everyone influences someone else. Human nature, can't escape it. No one live in a bubble. If their actions weren't influential, we would not notice and discuss them, including you. You have been influenced.

DesireeNevermind said:

Couldn't agree more I liked her more when she was with DC , don't get me wrong I like her as a solo artist(she get's on my nerves at times though)but I just prefer her back then.

One thing missed with that whole "Purple Rain" angle was that was one of the most shovinistic movies for its time, Morris throwing a woman in the garbage, Prince smacking one and then pushing her head first to the concrete, but this is ok because its used to glorify the "art of the movie". Also their is a double standard for the whole term "Perfectionist" also, Barbra Streisand said this in an interview, since she is female and a perfectionist she is a "bitch" or something more negative, where as a man is "being artistic". and we know that bullshit is true.

But another double standard here is the whole IMAGE thing. Just the other day, i was looking at some quotes on the new-to-be released Katharine Mcphee cd, now Katharine very sexy lady great looks, but also one of the best female voices out there. Now she has changed her style, she is on verve records, working with Boccelli, dyed her hair blonde cut it short, and YET the only thing reviewed in a recent performance (BY A MALE) were about "her hair change, her wardrobe, her her stage walking" I mean so whats it going to be??? Here you have a woman going out and SHOWING the talents of singing, and yet all that is mentioned in a review is a change in hair color, more conservative dresses, etc...so sorry this is all bullshit double standards, accept it for some, negate it for others.

BenaimanBawkah said:

Please...like you don't feel that way every day of your life. J/K

By the way, no one on here is preventing anyone from doing anything. This is the org not the Pentagon.

DesireeNevermind said:

But you know what's crazy? There was a time when female singers were a lot sexier without being so overtly sexual or naked - and guys were turned on.

Remember these women? They had successful singing careers without resorting to the types of overly sexualized images we see today that really seem created to distract from limited vocal ability. As a young woman, I took cues from these women on how to be sexy and classy at the same time. The classy part seems to be missing now. I think what we are seeing of today's female "singers" also says something about where we are as a society as well as the state of the "music" industry. Everything is so in your face and there is NOTHING left to the imagination any more. The envelope has been pushed out the door. Frankly, it's just not entertaining anymore. It's so forced and contrived that it just comes off as .

^ excellent examples bellanoche what happened to this kind of sensuality. notice i said sensuality not sexuality. aren't these women still hot without showing their ass cheeks?

bellanoche said:

I also remember a time where proteges of a certain musician from Minneapolis would dance and sing on stage in Lingere. Singing songs about how much of a "Nasty Girl" they were. Later on that protege would sing a song about the "Pretty Mess" her man had made by ejaculating on her Dress.

If you've seen Resivoir Dogs, you know all about how Madonna was perceived.

You also might wanna Google "Sade Nude"

Please, spare me the 80's and 90's were so innocent routine.

Also, it's not like there aren't women out there in the mainstream who don't dress and act provocatively.

The thing is, its like Prince said, sexiness is for the mind, i mean at one time you didnt have to say "im going to take you to the bedroom and screw you" in a song, and you wouldnt, there were ways to "cloud" the idea, now its straightforward in alot of MALE songs.

ThreadBare said:

I agree to an extent although Beyonce and Britney's fanbase largely consist of females and gay men.

From my point of view as a straight young female, the sexuality does not work on me in the same way yet I'm still a huge fan of both. I do get tired of the sexuality sometimes but not in comparison to some rap and rock videos out there since most of the time there's no point in the skanky women being there.

Paris9748430 said:

I don't think those are examples of the norm in those days. Did I post Madonna? In my opinion, Madonna falls in with miminally talented "singers" who used sex to sell her music/image. Part of Madonna's appeal was that she was so overtly and over-the-top sexual. She did that to stand out because most of the artists in her era were not doing what she was doing sexually. If everyone was, people would not have paid Madonna as much attention.

It's like Lady Gaga's "I'm so weird, look at me" schtick. No one is doing that, so people are paying her attention. Also, Vanity 6, Vanity and Appolonia 6 were never taken seriously as singers. They were what they were, sex kittens. Finally, the fact that I would have to google "Sade nude" to see pics of her nude should tell you something. It's not like I can just watch one her videos and see her nude or half nude in an overly sexualized way.

Desireenevermind hit it spot on, the majority of the women in the '80s and early '90s were sensual. I could list many of them from Taylor Dane to Cherelle who were sensual and tasteful. I didn't say they were innocent, but they did not project overly sexualized images because they actually had talent. The lesser talents resorted to using their bodies to sell their mediocre music.
[Edited 12/21/09 22:19pm]

lastdecember said:

It's funny that Prince would say that when he wrote songs like Let's Pretend We're Married, Head, and Darling Nikki.

It's not like Prince was very subtle with his lyrics.

lastdecember said:

Yeah, like that song where the chorus is just "birthday sex" repeated over and over

DesireeNevermind said:

Meanie.

I know that, I'm just saying that it seems like people are overthinking certain issues. Sometimes people are just comfortable in their own skin, and want to possibly show everyone else. There might not be any malicious intent at all in some of these cases.

Plus, this kind of thing has been going on for decades. It's a great way to get people's attention. I mean, we're talking about them, aren't we? They must be doing something right.

Paris9748430 said:

In all fairness or judgment lol....Prince is the progenitor of putting women out there to be skanky. the difference between his trollops and female artists today is that more of today's women have actual talent and weren't just plucked from their boyfriend's bedroom to be a "star". Also, the few of p's proteges who had real talent didn't wear the lingerie for very long.

And how many people weren't shocked to see Sade Nude. Plus weren't they like artsy photos or something and not necessarily to promote her CD. Kind of like Marilyn Monroe pin up versus Vanessa Williams doing Hustler.

nobody is saying the 80s and 90s were innocent. but definitely women didn't need to sell you their T&A to get you to buy their records. You probably would have bought them anyway.

How was Madonna perceived in Reservoir Dogs? I get the impression it wasn't in a flattering light.

BenaimanBawkah said:

you got that right. maybe that's why we're tired of it. I wanna see a really ugly ass woman that nobody would think of fucking who has really great pipes and can blow. I want her to make a shit load of money and have a top selling CD.

wait!

DesireeNevermind said:

I don't think she's ugly but excellent point. She's #1 worldwide

Paris9748430 said:

Yeah, Prince definitely did his sex-for-shock-value routine, but it wasn't all he had. He was never a one-trick pony. The songs you listed were all on albums that coverd the spectrum from love to politics, spirituality and sex. I think he did that to stand out from a talented crowd. Again, during the '80s not many people were bringing raw sexuality like Prince was, so he did that to get attention for himself. If everyone was singing songs like "Head" it would not have made a dent. So again, the Prince example supports the idea that the music/artists of the '80s and early '90s were not as overtly sexual as today.

Desiree is on point again when she talks about him propping up his girlfriends as sex objects masquerading as singers. However, he also introduced women with talent who kept their clothes on.

Prince is certainly no saint when it comes to overly sexualizing women or his lyrics but like someone else said, he's no Jeremiah. Also, Vanity 6 look like nuns in the the "Nasty Girl" video compared to what's out there now.

BenaimanBawkah said:

That's cool if that's who the artist is, but it just comes off as so unbelievably forced. Like Robin Thicke, the whole "sex therapy/ladies man" image just seems so out of place on him. Also, it seems that the longer the female artists are out there now, the more they start taking off their clothes. It's like desperation sets in and they resort to all they have left to garner attention. Mariah, Beyonce, Britney, Christina, Mya (I saw the what happend to her career thread ) They all just started getting naked and sexual as either their sales dropped or they wanted to breakout and get attention. One thing about Whitney, she might have picked up that pipe, but she kept her clothes on.

DesireeNevermind said:

Obviously you haven't seen the movie, but at the beginning there's a conversation about Madonna that's kinda funny.

Paris9748430 said:

nope...never saw it in full...just bit scenes here and there. Okay, I kinda like Madonna so if I see this part of the film will I be offended or truly laugh my ass off? I suddenly get the impression that the joke on her involves sucking dick. I dunno...just seems like something guys would say about her. Either that or a reference to her veejayjay and some well known tunnel.

DesireeNevermind said:

Here's the scene in question.

You can decide for yourself if it's offensive or not.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...bfrOoiWwto

Paris9748430 said:

That's it? I don't know what I was expecting. Yes I do. Something more. That's was just an earlier version of "Royal wit Cheese".