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Printablebellanoche said: meow85 said: Vendetta1 said: Robin could spank me.
Carry on.  Something about that pic of Rihianna and Robin Thicke bothers me. It goes back to what this topic is about. There is just rampant oversexualizing, objectifying and disrepecting of women in music - whether its the girls in the videos or the female singers themselves. For example, that video with Ciara and Justin Timberlake was just way over the top. It wasn't sexy to me at all. It looked like a desperate "artist" doing anything for shock value, allowing herself to be treated like a video skank in her own video. 
Here it is. It highlights what someoneelse said on this thread about the women emulating strippers and the underlying implications of that. It was me who said it, and that video was what I was particularly thinking of - lol!  The poles, the runway, the lighting, etc... It's also all about her being completely submissive and available to him - I mean, he literally has her on a chain, and she has to almost hold his attention by writhing against him, where he looks quite distracted half the time. Plus, like a stripper, she's half naked while he's fully clothed, so it automatically puts her in a subordinate position, and one where she can really only be objectified.
It's much more the power thing that bother me than the sexuality in this whole thing. I mean, surely things can be sexy without women having to be objects that solely exist to 'prove' how potent and desirable the man at the centre of everything is. [Edited 12/24/09 3:15am] "Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin | |
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bellanoche said:[quote] meow85 said: Vendetta1 said: Robin could spank me.
Carry on. Something about that pic of Rihianna and Robin Thicke bothers me. It goes back to what this topic is about. There is just rampant oversexualizing, objectifying and disrepecting of women in music - whether its the girls in the videos or the female singers themselves. For example, that video with Ciara and Justin Timberlake was just way over the top. It wasn't sexy to me at all. It looked like a desperate "artist" doing anything for shock value, allowing herself to be treated like a video skank in her own video.
Here it is. It highlights what someoneelse said on this thread about the women emulating strippers and the underlying implications of that. I hate how he doesn't dance at all in this video, we all know he can. Reminds me a little of this: Maybe it's the way women choose to dance/act/show off. JT and Mike just groove to themselves and crank out some moves whereas the women are all legs spread, skirt lifting, gyrating, rolling everywhere. Maybe if guys moved that way, we'd have a problem with it, too. Most people consider Aaliyah classy because while she wore just as revealing outfits, she was never in your face about it, she just danced and occasionally posed in a "hot" situation (the snakes in the Resolution video). [Edited 12/24/09 3:44am] | |
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Something about that pic of Rihianna and Robin Thicke bothers me. It goes back to what this topic is about. There is just rampant oversexualizing, objectifying and disrepecting of women in music - whether its the girls in the videos or the female singers themselves. For example, that video with Ciara and Justin Timberlake was just way over the top. It wasn't sexy to me at all. It looked like a desperate "artist" doing anything for shock value, allowing herself to be treated like a video skank in her own video. I think that the most shocking thing about that picture is how it fails to be either sexy or provocative in every way | |
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jiorjios said: Something about that pic of Rihianna and Robin Thicke bothers me. It goes back to what this topic is about. There is just rampant oversexualizing, objectifying and disrepecting of women in music - whether its the girls in the videos or the female singers themselves. For example, that video with Ciara and Justin Timberlake was just way over the top. It wasn't sexy to me at all. It looked like a desperate "artist" doing anything for shock value, allowing herself to be treated like a video skank in her own video. I think that the most shocking thing about that picture is how it fails to be either sexy or provocative in every way I agree. Epic fail. perfection is a fallacy of the imagination... | |
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deebee said: bellanoche said: It was me who said it, and that video was what I was particularly thinking of - lol! The poles, the runway, the lighting, etc... It's also all about her being completely submissive and available to him - I mean, he literally has her on a chain, and she has to almost hold his attention by writhing against him, where he looks quite distracted half the time. Plus, like a stripper, she's half naked while he's fully clothed, so it automatically puts her in a subordinate position, and one where she can really only be objectified.
It's much more the power thing that bother me than the sexuality in this whole thing. I mean, surely things can be sexy without women having to be objects that solely exist to 'prove' how potent and desirable the man at the centre of everything is. [Edited 12/24/09 3:15am]  Well stated. I agree about the "power" thing. Also, with regard to black women's sexuality, someone mentioned a level of discomfort with it. However, one can also look at the perpetuation of the libidinous black female that Winthrop Jordan wrote about long ego in his depiction of African women. The oversexualized - not sensual - black female image has been exploited throughout media. These videos are often an extension of that where the black women is viewed as a wanton object of sex, not an alluring beauty coveted by a suitor.
Just noticed your avatar and had to comment.  I love Gil Scott-Heron![Edited 12/24/09 17:33pm] perfection is a fallacy of the imagination... | |
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midiscover said: I think most people are scared of women sexuality. I don't want to turn this into a race discussion but to be specific - black women sexuality. Just an observation.
Lets call a spade,,,,,a SPADE dammit  | |
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midiscover said: I think most people are scared of women sexuality. I don't want to turn this into a race discussion but to be specific - black women sexuality. Just an observation.
That's true but that's not what this thread is about. If all these young women were owning their sexuality I'd be the first one standing up and applauding. I'd be promoting it, even. But that is not what this is. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: midiscover said: I think most people are scared of women sexuality. I don't want to turn this into a race discussion but to be specific - black women sexuality. Just an observation.
That's true but that's not what this thread is about. If all these young women were owning their sexuality I'd be the first one standing up and applauding. I'd be promoting it, even. But that is not what this is. How do you personally distinguish between women owning their sexuality and women participating in their own exploitation? | |
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ThreadBare said: meow85 said: That's true but that's not what this thread is about. If all these young women were owning their sexuality I'd be the first one standing up and applauding. I'd be promoting it, even. But that is not what this is. How do you personally distinguish between women owning their sexuality and women participating in their own exploitation? It can be hard to draw the line between the two. The question that needs to be asked whenever a sexually provocative image of a woman is used in the media is, "Does this look like it was really her idea?" Let me make it clear that I am not saying all sexy images are exploitation. IMO when a woman is using her sexuality as a display of her own sexual and sensual power it's ownership, but when she's using sexuality simply as a means of getting attention (or as the case may be, drawing attention away from the fact she's got nothing else to offer as a performer) knowingly or unknowingly it's participating in her own exploitation. The difference is in being the object or the subject of her own sexuality. If she is portraying herself as the subject she is the one in command and making decisions about what she does and does not fuck and why. If she is the object -and that is the culturally accepted way of perceiving female sexuality and the way I am trying to address with this thread- then she is an item to be owned and used. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: ThreadBare said: How do you personally distinguish between women owning their sexuality and women participating in their own exploitation? It can be hard to draw the line between the two. The question that needs to be asked whenever a sexually provocative image of a woman is used in the media is, "Does this look like it was really her idea?" Let me make it clear that I am not saying all sexy images are exploitation. IMO when a woman is using her sexuality as a display of her own sexual and sensual power it's ownership, but when she's using sexuality simply as a means of getting attention (or as the case may be, drawing attention away from the fact she's got nothing else to offer as a performer) knowingly or unknowingly it's participating in her own exploitation. The difference is in being the object or the subject of her own sexuality. If she is portraying herself as the subject she is the one in command and making decisions about what she does and does not fuck and why. If she is the object -and that is the culturally accepted way of perceiving female sexuality and the way I am trying to address with this thread- then she is an item to be owned and used. Is there anyone in particular you feel owns their sexuality in today's pop scene? To me, the last one was Aaliyah. Alicia Keys maybe, though she's never been as out there as her pop rivals. Gaga...not sure, she comes across as asexual to me... | |
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purplesweat said: meow85 said: It can be hard to draw the line between the two. The question that needs to be asked whenever a sexually provocative image of a woman is used in the media is, "Does this look like it was really her idea?" Let me make it clear that I am not saying all sexy images are exploitation. IMO when a woman is using her sexuality as a display of her own sexual and sensual power it's ownership, but when she's using sexuality simply as a means of getting attention (or as the case may be, drawing attention away from the fact she's got nothing else to offer as a performer) knowingly or unknowingly it's participating in her own exploitation. The difference is in being the object or the subject of her own sexuality. If she is portraying herself as the subject she is the one in command and making decisions about what she does and does not fuck and why. If she is the object -and that is the culturally accepted way of perceiving female sexuality and the way I am trying to address with this thread- then she is an item to be owned and used. Is there anyone in particular you feel owns their sexuality in today's pop scene? To me, the last one was Aaliyah. Alicia Keys maybe, though she's never been as out there as her pop rivals. Gaga...not sure, she comes across as asexual to me... I think Swizz Beats owns Alicia's sexuality...I had to lol... | |
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why does a woman owning her sexuality have to equal shaking her ass and pushing up her tits and grinding on a fully clothed man who acts like he's the one that's got her begging?
I would think a truly sexy and truly bad ass woman does not have to show a damn thing because she will have you imagining it, desiring it, begging for it and paying for it before you ever see a shoulder. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: why does a woman owning her sexuality have to equal shaking her ass and pushing up her tits and grinding on a fully clothed man who acts like he's the one that's got her begging?
Um, that's the whole point of discussion in this thread . These women don't ACT like they own their sexuality. They might, who knows, the videos could be their idea and they did choose to do it after all but there's no doubt about how submissive it looks and comes across and the message it ends up sending. | |
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purplesweat said: DesireeNevermind said: why does a woman owning her sexuality have to equal shaking her ass and pushing up her tits and grinding on a fully clothed man who acts like he's the one that's got her begging?
Um, that's the whole point of discussion in this thread . These women don't ACT like they own their sexuality. They might, who knows, the videos could be their idea and they did choose to do it after all but there's no doubt about how submissive it looks and comes across and the message it ends up sending.I know but there is some commentary on here that these women are somehow being I guess judged for owning their sexuality when the truth is they really don't. The men own it. I've stated before who those men are. I think what's not being discussed here is what does being sexy truly mean and when does a female artist own her sexuality? Also, is it something an artist can truly own or is it merely on loan to her? On loan until society deems that because she's a certain age, she is no longer sexy even though her body is fit, her face is pretty, and her music is still decent. **cough** madonna. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: purplesweat said: Um, that's the whole point of discussion in this thread . These women don't ACT like they own their sexuality. They might, who knows, the videos could be their idea and they did choose to do it after all but there's no doubt about how submissive it looks and comes across and the message it ends up sending.I know but there is some commentary on here that these women are somehow being I guess judged for owning their sexuality when the truth is they really don't. The men own it. I've stated before who those men are. I think what's not being discussed here is what does being sexy truly mean and when does a female artist own her sexuality? Also, is it something an artist can truly own or is it merely on loan to her? On loan until society deems that because she's a certain age, she is no longer sexy even though her body is fit, her face is pretty, and her music is still decent. **cough** madonna. Totally agree but I also think this can apply to men's sexuality as well. Particularly highly sought after men like Robert Pattinson. | |
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purplesweat said: meow85 said: It can be hard to draw the line between the two. The question that needs to be asked whenever a sexually provocative image of a woman is used in the media is, "Does this look like it was really her idea?" Let me make it clear that I am not saying all sexy images are exploitation. IMO when a woman is using her sexuality as a display of her own sexual and sensual power it's ownership, but when she's using sexuality simply as a means of getting attention (or as the case may be, drawing attention away from the fact she's got nothing else to offer as a performer) knowingly or unknowingly it's participating in her own exploitation. The difference is in being the object or the subject of her own sexuality. If she is portraying herself as the subject she is the one in command and making decisions about what she does and does not fuck and why. If she is the object -and that is the culturally accepted way of perceiving female sexuality and the way I am trying to address with this thread- then she is an item to be owned and used. Is there anyone in particular you feel owns their sexuality in today's pop scene? To me, the last one was Aaliyah. Alicia Keys maybe, though she's never been as out there as her pop rivals. Gaga...not sure, she comes across as asexual to me...  thinks
I'd say my answer's about the same as yours. The closest pop star to owning her sexuality (she certainly controls her image in a way no one else does) would be Lady GaGa, but overall she strikes me as more asexual. BUT Is it possible that the fact we and others perceive her as asexual could be related to the fact that her public sexuality is so different from what we're used to seeing from young women? Since we're used to female expressions of sexuality now as butt wriggling and writhing against stripper poles, are we missing what Lady GaGa IS doing? "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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purplesweat said: DesireeNevermind said: I know but there is some commentary on here that these women are somehow being I guess judged for owning their sexuality when the truth is they really don't. The men own it. I've stated before who those men are. I think what's not being discussed here is what does being sexy truly mean and when does a female artist own her sexuality? Also, is it something an artist can truly own or is it merely on loan to her? On loan until society deems that because she's a certain age, she is no longer sexy even though her body is fit, her face is pretty, and her music is still decent. **cough** madonna. Totally agree but I also think this can apply to men's sexuality as well. Particularly highly sought after men like Robert Pattinson. Like I said, with males likes Pattinson, Lautner, and others there is a blurring of traditional ways of portraying sexuality in the media. Only time will tell what, if any, effect that's going to have. But rather than make these boys the objects of desire, it's sort of a strange hybrid of object-subject. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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I can't think of a single female that comes off as just plain sexy and not sexual. I really have not seen any Lady Gaga videos so I can't speak to that. | |
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meow85 said: purplesweat said: Is there anyone in particular you feel owns their sexuality in today's pop scene? To me, the last one was Aaliyah. Alicia Keys maybe, though she's never been as out there as her pop rivals. Gaga...not sure, she comes across as asexual to me... thinks
I'd say my answer's about the same as yours. The closest pop star to owning her sexuality (she certainly controls her image in a way no one else does) would be Lady GaGa, but overall she strikes me as more asexual. BUT Is it possible that the fact we and others perceive her as asexual could be related to the fact that her public sexuality is so different from what we're used to seeing from young women? Since we're used to female expressions of sexuality now as butt wriggling and writhing against stripper poles, are we missing what Lady GaGa IS doing? This is such an interesting point. Haha, I'm intrigued now... I also forgot to mention I think Rihanna's sexuality is quite masculine in some ways....compared to Britney or Beyonce at least... [Edited 12/27/09 19:07pm] | |
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There's so much "sexiness" out there, l don't even know what an un-sexy black female singer is supposed to look like, they all wanna sho their thighs, ass, breast... But we've seen somuch it just doesnt appeal to us anymore...
I think being "controversial" and original, today, is having some clothes on... Or looking like Susan Boyle... lm startin to like that mama cause she's a fresh breath of air... I mean, even 40-something year old women like Toni and Janet are playing the sexy card... tired of it... And what even scares memore is seeing my nieces, barely teenagers walking down the street half naked, with sort clothes;just because Rihanna, Bey or some other (birdname) does, and it's "so cool"!!! Really tired... But thank God, l think even the mainstream public is getting tired too! Everybody is somebody, but nobody wants to be themselves. | |
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FrenchGuy said: There's so much "sexiness" out there, l don't even know what an un-sexy black female singer is supposed to look like, they all wanna sho their thighs, ass, breast... But we've seen somuch it just doesnt appeal to us anymore...
I think it's hilarious to read people putting Susan Boyle down. The woman can sing and that is refreshing in a sea of Rihannas and other no-singing heffas.I think being "controversial" and original, today, is having some clothes on... Or looking like Susan Boyle... lm startin to like that mama cause she's a fresh breath of air... I mean, even 40-something year old women like Toni and Janet are playing the sexy card... tired of it... And what even scares memore is seeing my nieces, barely teenagers walking down the street half naked, with sort clothes;just because Rihanna, Bey or some other (birdname) does, and it's "so cool"!!! Really tired... But thank God, l think even the mainstream public is getting tired too! | |
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purplesweat said: DesireeNevermind said: I know but there is some commentary on here that these women are somehow being I guess judged for owning their sexuality when the truth is they really don't. The men own it. I've stated before who those men are. I think what's not being discussed here is what does being sexy truly mean and when does a female artist own her sexuality? Also, is it something an artist can truly own or is it merely on loan to her? On loan until society deems that because she's a certain age, she is no longer sexy even though her body is fit, her face is pretty, and her music is still decent. **cough** madonna. Totally agree but I also think this can apply to men's sexuality as well. Particularly highly sought after men like Robert Pattinson. Yeah, but then why is old ass Mick Jagger still considered sexy and owning his sexuality but Madonna is considered....desparate. Female singers being sexy apparently comes at a price and has an expiration date and on top of that, their sexuality is somewhat dictated to them. Dress like this, pose like that, sing like this and so on. 
p.s. Why do people find Robert Pattinson so sexy anyway? Aren't there a couple dozen guys each in Boston, LA and NYC who look like this? 
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DesireeNevermind said: p.s. Why do people find Robert Pattinson so sexy anyway? Aren't there a couple dozen guys each in Boston, LA and NYC who look like this?
I know this is OT, but I say the same thing every time his pic pops up on some "sexiest _____" list. That is the point that I realize that I am over 30 and just no longer connected to what's "hip." Back on topic - the sexuality thing is just rampant in society. I was watching MNF and a commercial came on with two kids watching Danika Patrick, and she was getting into a shower. It was like she was teasing the boys and they were watching her on a webcam or something. I thought, wow is this what she's doing to sell a product to young guys? She has to simulate nudity and taking a shower - Danika Patrick? Like I said earlier, the crazy thing about it now is that its not the nameless background video "model" exploiting her sexuality for commerce, it's women who've made names for themselves.  perfection is a fallacy of the imagination... | |
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bellanoche said: DesireeNevermind said: p.s. Why do people find Robert Pattinson so sexy anyway? Aren't there a couple dozen guys each in Boston, LA and NYC who look like this?
I know this is OT, but I say the same thing every time his pic pops up on some "sexiest _____" list. That is the point that I realize that I am over 30 and just no longer connected to what's "hip." Back on topic - the sexuality thing is just rampant in society. I was watching MNF and a commercial came on with two kids watching Danika Patrick, and she was getting into a shower. It was like she was teasing the boys and they were watching her on a webcam or something. I thought, wow is this what she's doing to sell a product to young guys? She has to simulate nudity and taking a shower - Danika Patrick? Like I said earlier, the crazy thing about it now is that its not the nameless background video "model" exploiting her sexuality for commerce, it's women who've made names for themselves. Now that is sad. But when she first won that racing title, all anybody kept saying (media wise) was how hot she was. I knew it was only a matter of time before the bathing suit pics and sexy commercials would surface. Some women just don't know any other way to stay relevant.  | |
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DesireeNevermind said: purplesweat said: Totally agree but I also think this can apply to men's sexuality as well. Particularly highly sought after men like Robert Pattinson. Yeah, but then why is old ass Mick Jagger still considered sexy and owning his sexuality but Madonna is considered....desparate. Female singers being sexy apparently comes at a price and has an expiration date and on top of that, their sexuality is somewhat dictated to them. Dress like this, pose like that, sing like this and so on.
p.s. Why do people find Robert Pattinson so sexy anyway? Aren't there a couple dozen guys each in Boston, LA and NYC who look like this?
Yeah, I never make fun of Madonna's sexuality for that exact reason. If some 80 year old fart can have three (young) girlfriends and be worshipped for being a pornographer, then Madonna can wear a fucking leotard. I think Pattinson is good looking but not particularly interesting. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: Yeah, but then why is old ass Mick Jagger still considered sexy...
Who in the world still considers Mick Jagger sexy??? | |
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sextonseven said: DesireeNevermind said: Yeah, but then why is old ass Mick Jagger still considered sexy...
Who in the world still considers Mick Jagger sexy??? mick jagger We are all so full of  here | |
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sextonseven said: DesireeNevermind said: Yeah, but then why is old ass Mick Jagger still considered sexy...
Who in the world still considers Mick Jagger sexy???    "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: sextonseven said: Who in the world still considers Mick Jagger sexy???  | |
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Vendetta1 said: meow85 said: I didn't understand why anyone thought his wrinkly old ass was appealing for the longest time. And then I saw the Stones live. 
Putting aside the weird fact that he was wearing enough glitter to choke a 12 year old girl that evening, Sir Mick is smoking hot. He's got this charisma and presence in person that transcends his looks. He's old enough to be my grandfather, but I'd still hit it. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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