Timmy84 said:

Cinnie said:

When I say "gripe" it's almost like I am saying that is what meow85 has.

I used to discuss this topic at length with a feminist around 2001, who really opened my eyes to the double standard.

sextonseven said:

It's alllll related. I think meow85 would appreciate your post on a certain level, while continue on an opposing argument.

TD3 said:

Ya feel me? I mean if a man did it, people will be talking SHIT (Prince anyone?) but if a woman did it it's alright.

Cinnie said:

Well, nude covers used to be daring and a guaranteed seller, but so many people have done it these days, that it has become boring. Unless you put a different spin on the idea à la Beth Ditto.

As far as men not being naked as much as women on covers, who really wants to see that? Even women generally would rather see female nudity than gross hairy male nudity.

Cinnie said:

She did that all the time with me on the Buffy the Vampire Slayer threads.

Joni Mitchell reflects on why she 'hates' music

CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Mon. Apr. 25 2005 5:19 PM ET

It's a statement that doesn't strike a chord coming from legendary Canadian singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell. She says she "came to hate music."

"For 20 years I've been told I'm not good," the multiple-Grammy award winning musician said in an interview with CTV's Canada AM.

"You deliver a project with great enthusiasm and then you run into a hostile press, a stupid press…once they found out I didn't like music, then, to their delight, all they wanted out of me was to diss on everybody."

Mitchell pins the blame on record companies who meddle with the art. These days, musicians are thwarted from following their inspiration, she said.

"The relationship between the musician and their muse has been usurped by an intermediary who is calculating demographics and polls," she said.

"I saw one girl, a 14-year-old with a brand new bosom, and she shoved it at the camera and said 'I want to get my music to the world' and I thought, there is no muse in this…These are not creative people, these are created people."

Despite her cynicism of the industry's "created people," Mitchell's folk-pop hits continue to have fans in high places.

Media reported earlier this month that U.S. President George Bush has an eclectic play list downloaded into his iPod. Among the songs was Mitchell's tune "(You're So Square) Baby, I Don't Care."

When she heard Bush had her song on his play list, she says: "it gave me a giggle."

Still, she wishes it had been another song of her's on his iPod, perhaps "Dog Eat Dog," she said.

She recited the lyrics to "Dog Eat Dog": Land of snap decisions/Land of short attention spans/Nothing is savoured/Long enough to really understand/In every culture in decline/The watchful ones among the slaves/Know all that is genuine will be/Conned and scorned and cast away.

'Saskatchewan is in my veins'

Born in Alberta in 1943, Mitchell moved to Saskatoon with her family when she was nine. She had a difficult childhood during which she battled with several illnesses, including polio.

Despite hearing that she might never be able to stand or walk again, she prevailed.

Indeed, her long career has spanned decades and taken her from the prairies to the heights of international fame.

So when organizers of Saskatchewan's centennial celebration approached Mitchell to take part in this year's festivities, she decided to compile a list of relevant songs on a CD.

One of the songs on Songs of a Prairie Girl is one of the first she ever penned -- "Urge for Going."

The song captures "that longing for warmer climates in the middle of the frozen tundra," she said.

After compiling the list of songs, she realized they had a secondary theme in common. "It's all about wanting to get out of the cold, of all things," she said.

"That's why I put on the liner notes: Grab a hot beverage and stand next to the heater when you put this thing on."

Regardless of how much she has travelled or how far she has come, her childhood in the prairies stays with her.

"You carry your childhood with you regardless of who you are," she said. "Saskatchewan is in my veins."

Fans of this Prairie Girl will be happy to know she shows no signs of slowing down.

"At this stage you are supposed to be aware of your mortality," she said.

Instead, Mitchell feels she has another 30 years to go.

"I could get a lot done in 30 years -- that's they way I look at it, rather than 'Oh dear, I'm middle aged,'" she said.

"I love this leg of my life, it's different. Things have fallen away, but they've been easy to give up and new things have popped up in their stead."

I think we have already seen the tide starting to turn regarding the expectation of half-talented young MALES being turned "sexy". Whether meow85 finds him attractive or not, it proves my point.

meow85, don't even get me started on your precious Backstreet Boys!

http://www.youtube.com/wa...fI#t=2m16s

Cinnie said:

If you're talking actors then yes the male sex symbol is catching up a bit when it comes to showing skin on magazine covers.



Male musicians however still tend to keep their clothes on.

sextonseven said:

I'm just saying, not for long, and the proof is the successful consumption of the above images.
[Edited 12/19/09 13:24pm]

Cinnie said:

I dunno, male recording artists in general to me take themselves and their work too seriously to pose nude for magazines. Perhaps like D'Angelo, they are afraid that their sexy image will overpower their music and they'll be known in the industry as a himbo. Why many female artists don't have that dilemma, I have no idea.

sextonseven said:

I think meow85's point (and YOU CAN RETURN TO YOUR THREAD ANY TIME HERE! ) is that the pressure for male musicians to get naked simply does not exist with the same expectation level as females.

I think you said it best... even females would rather see female nudity.

Cinnie said:

I'll agree with you there that there is a lot more pressure not just for female musicians, but any women in the entertainment industry to look sexy.

I don't mind "sex appeal" as long its genuine. Some female singers oozes sexuality without even trying, its the attitude. And I enjoy it because they're being themselves.

Its the ones who FORCE IT that end up looking awkward and robotic

Cinnie said:

Not sure about that, but it's just the time we live in...gone are the times where creativity was the mean thing...now its all about abbs and stuff...its not just the music industry, its everywhere...still, i think at the end, it will not help an artist to be succesfull for a long time...at one point, people will be bored with it, and than its just the music that will last...and for the last couple of years, the music hasn't been really impressive, so a lot of these 'artist' nowadays, will be forgotten very quickly...it's just a mather of time. By the way, i think its not only the female artist being sexy...for example, would Usher be that populair if he was a fat dude? Don't think is...damn, i miss the good old days!!! (This, from a guy who works out 5 times a week at the gym...LOL)

Cinnie said:

she the best female vocalist out right now

sextonseven said:

Stop kidding yourself

Cinnie said:

Umm...No, I wouldn't. LOL.

Harlepolis said:

The sexiest singers are always the ones who never tried to be sexy . . .

perfect example of sexiness without trying was Aaliyah

perfect example of not being sexy because they try so damn hard is Mariah

Cinnie said:

Yes. Her music is really nothing special, she just gets so much attention because her image is different than most young female performers. But really, she's still just doing Glam with tits.

Cinnie said:

That's almost another topic, really. Why don't they just use models? Why are singers (and actresses, for that matter) stripping down? What does that have to do with their performance? To quote Scissor Sisters, "You can't see tits on the radio." That is, a performer having a hot body and being willing to get nekkid aren't going to do anything about the quality of her voice.

Cinnie said:

Fat women can be beautiful too, and plenty of people find them attractive. I'm willing to bet there is a market for big girls to pose nude.

But that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about young female performers being so willing to be objectified, and for what? If we're supposed to respect their talent as singers and actresses, why do they need to resort to near-nudity to get our attention? Why is it expected that these young women strip down?

Cinnie said:

Believe it or not, I take issue with that video as well. I never watch it.

Objectification of young males in the industry is rare, but as boybands so ably demonstrate it does happen. The Boys have voices, parading them around naked and wet was not necessary, and kind of gross. Nick and AJ were minors when this was made.

Sex Sells and there is nothing wrong with sex. Males singers do it to and never get a backlash. Only females get a backlash for some catty reason.

Flowerpower said:

Men only do it sometimes, and they're never expected to do it is the problem. Even with male acts where sex is arguably the commodity, like boybands, the pressure to perform sexiness isn't the same.

and that is precisely why i loathe beyonce

Cinnie said:

oh, meow85, you don't get away without replying to this in some form.

Yeah but its such a double standard. Lets take the world of sports. OK, Mark Sanchez of The New York Jets, Jose Reyes of the NY Mets, ALex Rodriguez of NY Yankees, Derek Jeter of NY Yankees to name a few, all have done spreads in GQ, shirts off, etc, labeled Sexiest in Sports and no one says a damn thing. Anna Kournikova did a Bikini Calendar and they said she "disgraced" womens tennis? I mean really now, do we not see double standards.