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Reply #120 posted 08/11/21 2:25am

Mackopolis44

My goodness, this debate has become heated to say the least!
As someone who has messed around with music and compositions since my teens I think that every musician has to travel their own path. Both Prince and Bruce Springsteen appear to share a mutual respect for each other. Prince name checked Bruce on a song and Bruce Springsteen dedicated Purple Rain to Prince at a gig.
Keep it nice people 😎✌❤
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Reply #121 posted 08/11/21 3:29am

zobilamouche

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Vannormal said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Because he found better musicians.

-

Do not agree.

Music is much more than perfectly trained musicians.

Skills don't have anything to do with 'the soul of chemistry' and/or (the commn emphathy as a band/friends'.

Perfect sounding music trough better skilled musicians, is what Prince's music lacked after The Revolution. Music that did not hit the charts nor the hearts of many others (like before).

Period. smile

Bash me.

-

I agree...

No doubt his later bands had fantastic talent in them but slowly the albums started lacking a unique feel to them and became more predictable. Especially in the 2010s. But from late 90s on, I felt he had a show band instead of an actual Prince band. After The Gold Experience I felt the band as just a group of hired musicians and less as a unit. The TRC tour was an exception because also the album had a very defined sound.

The HQ-er formerly known as krokostimpy.
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Reply #122 posted 08/11/21 10:18am

Se7en

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jasopig said:

I don't think it should be said that he found "better" musicians, but he found musicians that better fit the direction he wanted to head in. He also knew much more time with the revolution was going to stifle his creativity. I remember feeling sad when the revolution was fired in that august of 86, and then SOTT came out and I vowed to never question his musical decisions again. I never have and I regret nothing.


I remember feeling the same way as you, but not really worrying about it too much. When SOTT came out, I didn't even care about The Revolution anymore.

Side note: I picked up the first few W&L albums . . . I tried, but I find the majority of their songs off-putting. I don't know if the songs are out of time, or out of tune, or just Wendy's singing is not strong. Not for me. Lisa's voice, on the other hand, is very pleasing.

Revolution: loved
SOTT band: loved
NPG Original: loved

It's only when it became a revolving door of NPG members that I lost interest in the band members. There are a few in later years that I don't even know who they are.

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Reply #123 posted 08/11/21 12:25pm

SoulAlive

jaawwnn said:

SoulAlive said:

the bottom line,folks: Prince simply gets bored with people after a few years biggrin he always had a hard time developing long term relationships.In an interview,he was asked if he misses Wendy and Lisa.His response? “No…attachment is stagnation”.This is why he kept changing band members,wives,and girlfriends throughout his entire life.

Ha! Did he really say that?

yeah,he said it in an interview in the 90s.

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Reply #124 posted 08/11/21 12:31pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

SoulAlive said:

jaawwnn said:

Ha! Did he really say that?

yeah,he said it in an interview in the 90s.

Yeah but you have to take that with a grain of salt.
But he also continued to be friends with Wendy so

.

He sorta said the same things about the Time, and we know that was ego talking in both

.

just 5yr later he writes a song dedicated to Wendy Susannah & Lisa

.

and 2yrs later when asked who would be in his 'dream band' Wendy Lisa Susannah Cat Sheila E Rhonda and Marva are in it

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #125 posted 08/12/21 2:04am

Vannormal

OldFriends4Sale said:

SoulAlive said:

yeah,he said it in an interview in the 90s.

Yeah but you have to take that with a grain of salt.
But he also continued to be friends with Wendy so

.

He sorta said the same things about the Time, and we know that was ego talking in both

.

just 5yr later he writes a song dedicated to Wendy Susannah & Lisa

.

and 2yrs later when asked who would be in his 'dream band' Wendy Lisa Susannah Cat Sheila E Rhonda and Marva are in it

-

Was that his pre- or post-idee of an all female band ?

Like he did with 3rdEyeGirl ?

Didn't the jehova's rules shit got in the way ?

Anyway, he might've said it, but actuelly never lived up to it, the usual Prince promises.

And he easily coudl've done it, he WAS the one in charge, always.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #126 posted 08/12/21 2:12am

jaawwnn

SoulAlive said:



jaawwnn said:




SoulAlive said:


the bottom line,folks: Prince simply gets bored with people after a few years biggrin he always had a hard time developing long term relationships.In an interview,he was asked if he misses Wendy and Lisa.His response? “No…attachment is stagnation”.This is why he kept changing band members,wives,and girlfriends throughout his entire life.

Ha! Did he really say that?




yeah,he said it in an interview in the 90s.



Man, poor Prince, not to be too glib, but look at his death and ask how that one worked out.
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Reply #127 posted 08/13/21 5:35am

jdcxc

jfenster said:

Because he always wanted new sounds ..

Exactly! Prince was the dude who had THREE functioning bands operating at the same time when he passed away. Just think about how much $ he turned down for a Revolution Purple Rain reunion?

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Reply #128 posted 08/13/21 6:16am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

Vannormal said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yeah but you have to take that with a grain of salt.
But he also continued to be friends with Wendy so

.

He sorta said the same things about the Time, and we know that was ego talking in both

.

just 5yr later he writes a song dedicated to Wendy Susannah & Lisa

.

and 2yrs later when asked who would be in his 'dream band' Wendy Lisa Susannah Cat Sheila E Rhonda and Marva are in it

-

Was that his pre- or post-idee of an all female band ?

Like he did with 3rdEyeGirl ?

Didn't the jehova's rules shit got in the way ?

Anyway, he might've said it, but actuelly never lived up to it, the usual Prince promises.

And he easily coudl've done it, he WAS the one in charge, always.

-

yeah I thought the same, I wish that would have happened in 1998

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
That's what U want, TRANSCENDENCE. When that happens, O Boy -Prince 2015
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
“Strong people define themselves; weak people allow others to define them.” ― Ken Poirot
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Reply #129 posted 08/13/21 5:59pm

jfenster

Sum it up...w and l were his greatest musical influence and u can't believe what Prince has said ...helluva fan base we got
[Edited 8/13/21 18:00pm]
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Reply #130 posted 08/16/21 12:11pm

bergowitz

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peedub said:

Maybe he was never looking for better/more proficient musicians. He was looking for different. Sometimes maybe people he might just enjoy playing with or being around. It's silly to speculate. He was capricious and prone to hold grudges. Who cares? You get what you got.

I think, as a bandleader, you want musicians who are playing at the limit of their ability so that they abandon routine and habit and become truly creative. I think towards the end of '86 (maybe even earlier), Prince found that what he needed them to do (new styles, ideas) was perhaps beyond their range of experience and ability so needed new musicians to come in. Just compare the Revolution version of Possessed versus Now's The Time in '87.

I think his best bands in '84-85, '87-'89, '93 and '02 had that sense of being creative as there was no other option.

In this bed ice cream
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Reply #131 posted 08/16/21 12:32pm

Cinny

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jaawwnn said:

SoulAlive said:

yeah,he said it in an interview in the 90s.

Man, poor Prince, not to be too glib, but look at his death and ask how that one worked out.

wilted

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Reply #132 posted 08/16/21 3:16pm

GustavoRibas

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I am glad it didn´t happen. Revolution indeed was the band in most of his best years, and Wendy and Lisa were probably some of the few bandmembers that had guts to say ´no´ to some of his ideas, but I was never a big fan of them as musicians. I am glad he played with some great bands like NPG and ONA/Musicology and could explore different sounds and styles.

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Reply #133 posted 08/16/21 4:02pm

Doalwa

ForceofNature said:



funkman88 said:




mrjj71 said:


funkman88 said: We're talking about actual band members though

Wendy was only in the band because Prince was dating her sister and Lisa was dating her...Wendy a terrible guitar player..name ONE guitarist in his band before or after her that she's BETTER than?



its Wendy fault Prince stopped dancing so much and had to pick up the guitar to play all the real solos cuz no Dez or Mike Scott around.



Prince could have challenged Michael for best dancer in the 80's if it wasn't for Wendy no playin self makin him go play the real guitar parts live!



I honestly can't tell if this is satire or not lol well done



I can’t either 🤣 who cares who was the better dancer of the two?!? Are we talking about musicians or circus clowns?? 😂
lol lol lol lol
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Reply #134 posted 08/17/21 12:41am

funkman88

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Doalwa said:

ForceofNature said:

I honestly can't tell if this is satire or not lol well done

I can’t either 🤣 who cares who was the better dancer of the two?!? Are we talking about musicians or circus clowns?? 😂 lol lol lol lol

u didnt really know prince if u think he was ok with being 2nd best to michael in anything...just like michael had the number 1 ideal color beauty brooke shields Prince had to top him with Kim Basinger!

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Reply #135 posted 08/17/21 2:52am

ForceofNature

funkman88 said:

Doalwa said:

ForceofNature said: I can’t either 🤣 who cares who was the better dancer of the two?!? Are we talking about musicians or circus clowns?? 😂 lol lol lol lol

u didnt really know prince if u think he was ok with being 2nd best to michael in anything...just like michael had the number 1 ideal color beauty brooke shields Prince had to top him with Kim Basinger!

Number 1 ideal color beauty? what? lol

[Edited 8/17/21 2:54am]

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Reply #136 posted 08/17/21 7:01am

lurker316

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Doalwa said:

ForceofNature said:

I honestly can't tell if this is satire or not lol well done

I can’t either 🤣 who cares who was the better dancer of the two?!? Are we talking about musicians or circus clowns?? 😂 lol lol lol lol

Co-sign.

One (of a number) of big differences between Prince and MJ was that one was a musican, the other was a dancer.

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Reply #137 posted 08/17/21 8:25am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

it wouldnt have made things any better, really.

you look at most bands, it is all down to the leader really.

if they arent on form, the resulting music wont be that different.

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Reply #138 posted 08/25/21 2:37am

Vannormal

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Prince didnt like his band challenging him So he opted for musicians that would just say yes, not push him Thats why he didnt want wendy and lisa around too long after 86 He needed to remind himself he could do it alone without other band members To admit they were a good influence was too threatening He wanted a band that didnt threaten him

-

I agree on that at some point, but not completely.

-

It possibly all was a big struggle for him personally at the end of 1986, early 1987.

Wanting to do (the recordings) all alone, and much needed the musicians for live performances.

At some point dreaming of a big band on stage.

Having the chance to work with other talented bandmembers like W&L or Eric etc, knowing that he had high demands, worked very fast.

Understand that working with others is always a slower process...

And not to forget the most important thing; he was growing, getting very skilled in a very short time... and the pressure of the record company(-ies) in every way... makig films... touring...

-

I just want to point out that he must've had a serious inner struggle with all these different issues at the same time.

Prince always made quick choices.

He made good ones and bad ones.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #139 posted 08/25/21 1:36pm

TMPletz

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Prince talks about this in his 1990 Rolling Stone interview:

The Time, Prince says, is proof of the good that can come from a group dissolving and eventually coming back together. “They broke up because they’d run out of ideas,” he says. “They went off and did their own thing, and now they’re terrifying.”


Prince said this formula was just what he had in mind when, in short order, he broke up the Revolution. “I felt we all needed to grow,” he says. “We all needed to play a wide range of music with different types of people. Then we could come back eight times as strong.


“No band can do everything,” he continues. “For instance, this band I’m with now is funky. With them, I can drag out ‘Baby I’m a Star’ all night! I just keep switching gears on them, and something else funky will happen. I couldn’t do that with the Revolution. They were a different kind of funky, more electronic and cold. The Revolution could tear up ‘Darling Nikki,’ which was about the coldest song ever written but I wouldn’t even think about playing that song with this band.”

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Reply #140 posted 08/25/21 2:02pm

Mintchip

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I love Wendy and Lisa, and I love the Revolution. I certainly think getting them back together and finding some new mature sound would have been interesting, especially in the later years when the emphasis was on musicians. It certainly would have been preferable to somethign like 3rd Eye Girl. On the other hand I assume he tried working with them a few times post 2000, and nothing took?

By retiring the Revolution in '86, Prince went a ways toward mythologizing the band in the public's mind. Whereas the NPG became interchangeable, the Revolution became untouchable.


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Reply #141 posted 08/29/21 10:08am

Vannormal

Mintchip said:

I love Wendy and Lisa, and I love the Revolution. I certainly think getting them back together and finding some new mature sound would have been interesting, especially in the later years when the emphasis was on musicians. It certainly would have been preferable to somethign like 3rd Eye Girl. On the other hand I assume he tried working with them a few times post 2000, and nothing took?

By retiring the Revolution in '86, Prince went a ways toward mythologizing the band in the public's mind. Whereas the NPG became interchangeable, the Revolution became untouchable.


-

Exactly.

-

The NPG, still can't get used to these stupid letters and the words, after all these years.

It just doesn't... pronouce well.

With the word 'Prince', the folowing words 'and The Revolution' worked absolutely perfect.

With the word 'Prince and the words 'and The NPG'..... oh forget it. smile

Yep i know, it's my problem. wink

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #142 posted 08/29/21 12:39pm

herb4

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I'm a little late to the argument but I think W&L and the Revolution brought things to his songwriting while some of the later band members brought more live in concert chops. Prince's live performances got better and better the more he surrounded himself with accomplished players but his album releases kind of tailed off some and were hit and miss a lot, with weaker song writing and arrangements. Just my opinion of course.

The Revolution were a band put in place precisely for how they looked, their gender roles and how well they could repeat EXACTLY what Prince put down on the song sheet. Prince has said as much. As he grew as a performer, his backing band brought more to the table and his sound got more organic. You could notice it first in SoTT and Lovesexy but really with D&P and Gold.

To me, there was always something a little synthetic in the Revolution's playing that felt a little stiff but on the albums, their influence came off much better.

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Reply #143 posted 08/30/21 2:54am

Vannormal

herb4 said:

I'm a little late to the argument but I think W&L and the Revolution brought things to his songwriting while some of the later band members brought more live in concert chops. Prince's live performances got better and better the more he surrounded himself with accomplished players but his album releases kind of tailed off some and were hit and miss a lot, with weaker song writing and arrangements. Just my opinion of course.

I don't completely agree.

Yes, his later bandmates brought more 'live' to his concerts.

But I believe Prince - who was always in charge with everything! - had come to a point (1988-1989) that he was on the top of his creative explorings and own ideas (imho).

After that (Lovesexy live and Sott) live shows got less expanded and complex I believe.

Well he tried again a few times in the early nineties, but there was also a big problem with the budget (all the time!). WHich is a very important element too. Stages were so fucking expensive, and Prince's flaws of not touring properly elsewhere etc...

To me it seems as if he attracted new hard skilled musicians to have those to learn fast, but also to learn something from them too. He was a star on top of the game, enclosed adn astranged. He lacked from the new streetlife and street credibility and attitude that came with it. And sort of started (too late) to copy rap styles and attitudes from them.

Yes he put those new band memebers a bit more up front in his later live shows.


The Revolution were a band put in place precisely for how they looked, their gender roles and how well they could repeat EXACTLY what Prince put down on the song sheet. Prince has said as much.

True!

As he grew as a performer, his backing band brought more to the table and his sound got more organic. You could notice it first in SoTT and Lovesexy but really with D&P and Gold.

True. But I don't believe that his sound became more organic. On the contrary.

To me, there was always something a little synthetic in the Revolution's playing that felt a little stiff but on the albums, their influence came off much better.

-

All this is myhumble opinion of course. I never leved in paisley park or met Prince or anyone else.

I even might be dead wrong about all this. wink Just sayin'.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #144 posted 09/02/21 3:29pm

DonRants

I am late to this conversation...but my girlfriend is a huge Springsteen fan..she likes Prince a lot too. The reality is Prince is a multi-instrumentalist stand alone artist. Most of us who like the revolution forget that Prince had a band before them. Cats such as Andre Cymone and Dez Dickerson were there right up until 1999. I also think that Wendy and Lisa probably got a bit too big for their briches. They thought they were a "band" when they were hired musicians. If you notice Prince has never let anyone else in his bands get as much press as the Revolution particularly Wendy and Lisa got.

The E-street band is a Band! period...when Sprinsteen left to do his own thing...most fans thought "
What the hell..why didn't he just do the album with the E-street band?"

The fans of Prince love Prince, the fans of Sprinsteen love Sprinsteen AND the E-Street band. Could Prince have kept the Revolution together..maybe..but that wasn't his style. I personaly think his Musicology band was amazing...he let them go too.

To All the Haters on the Internet
No more Candy 4 U
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Reply #145 posted 09/02/21 3:53pm

herb4

avatar

Vannormal said:

herb4 said:

I'm a little late to the argument but I think W&L and the Revolution brought things to his songwriting while some of the later band members brought more live in concert chops. Prince's live performances got better and better the more he surrounded himself with accomplished players but his album releases kind of tailed off some and were hit and miss a lot, with weaker song writing and arrangements. Just my opinion of course.

I don't completely agree.

Yes, his later bandmates brought more 'live' to his concerts.

But I believe Prince - who was always in charge with everything! - had come to a point (1988-1989) that he was on the top of his creative explorings and own ideas (imho).

After that (Lovesexy live and Sott) live shows got less expanded and complex I believe.

Well he tried again a few times in the early nineties, but there was also a big problem with the budget (all the time!). WHich is a very important element too. Stages were so fucking expensive, and Prince's flaws of not touring properly elsewhere etc...

To me it seems as if he attracted new hard skilled musicians to have those to learn fast, but also to learn something from them too. He was a star on top of the game, enclosed adn astranged. He lacked from the new streetlife and street credibility and attitude that came with it. And sort of started (too late) to copy rap styles and attitudes from them.

Yes he put those new band memebers a bit more up front in his later live shows.


The Revolution were a band put in place precisely for how they looked, their gender roles and how well they could repeat EXACTLY what Prince put down on the song sheet. Prince has said as much.

True!

As he grew as a performer, his backing band brought more to the table and his sound got more organic. You could notice it first in SoTT and Lovesexy but really with D&P and Gold.

True. But I don't believe that his sound became more organic. On the contrary.

To me, there was always something a little synthetic in the Revolution's playing that felt a little stiff but on the albums, their influence came off much better.

-

All this is myhumble opinion of course. I never leved in paisley park or met Prince or anyone else.

I even might be dead wrong about all this. wink Just sayin'.

-


Oh, same. And this is just me talking shit on a message board so TIFWIW.

His band's sound DEFINTIELY became more organic though. I noticed it right away with the D&P band and the the REAL drum sound alone made me take notice and welcome it. I know Bobby Z was PLAYING but that electronic sounding snare always bugged me, even back in the day.

Later on, with guys like Blackwell, Michael B, Maceo, Eric Leeds and even Sheila E, etc. it sounded more and more like a real band and less like a studio recreation. I'm not as wild about the Lovesexy tour as some but I really REALLY loved hearing Sheila hit drums that sounded like drums. The SoTT shows DEFINTELY felt more organic. The Exodus and Gold Experience live stuff....The ONA band...same thing. I don't even see how it's an argument tbh but whatever.

By the time he hit the Musicology tour the whole sound was just tight as hell and he even made it a theme. Real Music by Real Musicians. None of it sounded canned or...programmed.

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Reply #146 posted 09/14/21 11:11am

lurker316

avatar

Cinny said:

mrjj71 said:

3.The New Power Generation.

Wasn't "The NPG" actually, like, a dozen different bands over the years? lol

Yes. He may be referring the orginial configuration with Tony M.

[Edited 9/14/21 11:15am]

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Reply #147 posted 09/15/21 6:33am

AvocadosMax

Because he ain’t Bruce. He Prince. Duuuuhhhh. Lol
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Reply #148 posted 09/15/21 7:40am

Poplife88

avatar

SoulAlive said:

the bottom line,folks: Prince simply gets bored with people after a few years biggrin he always had a hard time developing long term relationships.In an interview,he was asked if he misses Wendy and Lisa.His response? “No…attachment is stagnation”.This is why he kept changing band members,wives,and girlfriends throughout his entire life.

This is it right here. He got bored with people and was all about Sheila and her band by that time. Also for the Revolution...it was also because Wendy asked for a raise for the band and asked for a friggin million! That was it for them. It was over. But who the hell is saying Wendy isn't talented, REALLY?? That's just silly-ass talk. The girl can play. She's was one the few he kept in contact with over the years...um remember Tavis Smiley?!

We're gonna need a bigger boat
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Reply #149 posted 09/15/21 11:06am

JudasLChrist

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I think bringing in Wendy and Lisa would have meant Sussanah would have been around, and that was too painful for him, and probably just too voilatile for all of them.

Also, it's not clear that Mark Brown would have come back.

I think he maybe wanted to make his band more consiously black, too.

The Revolution was an incredible band. I don't agree that the 21 nights band could do what they did, because they never showed that.

Sign and Lovesexy was a great band as well... after that he didn't seem to have bands that fully gelled as bands, great players, but not really the chemistry that his great bands had.

A personal exception for me would probably be that Batman band with Patrice Rushen and the background singer. That band had unrealized potential, I always thought.

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